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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts 5
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 9:10 PM, February 10th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know what? I've realized why I never enforce my boundaries. Sometimes it is just as unpleasant for me as it is my H.

I fell into that trap for awhile until I figured out the part where we surrender the outcome. It HARD.

Hang in there.
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
runningscared
♀ New Member
Member # 30425
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, February 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

d&c - are you normally able to tell when your SA is lying? I've confronted my H x2 recently, believing him to be lying to me about masturbating but he just flatly denies it - giving me a cover up story. He also gets very angry because I don't believe him - which only makes me not believe him more! (I've tried explaining this to him but I don't think he gets it.) It's so frustrating because I can dissociate from whatever he is (or isn't doing) but, if he's lying, it stinks! And gives me no hope for our future. We're only 2 months in, so early days, but I've told myself he's only getting a year.

Posts: 39 | Registered: Dec 2010
dazdandconfuzed
Member
Member # 11692
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, February 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, I can ususally tell - ususally by this:

He also gets very angry because I don't believe him - which only makes me not believe him more!

That is definately one of H's "tells". If I ask him about something and get the angry "sometimes I'm telling the truth you know" it is pretty close to 100% sure it's a lie. If he is absolutely telling the truth his reaction is more often than not sadness that we are at a point where I don't believe him about anything. He is kind of figuring that out though and is starting to be able to control his reactions when caught. I figured out he was lying the other night when there was a logic hole in his story - it was just one little sentence in passing that when I thought about it a red flag went up. I didn't give him a chance to get angry or defensive, I didn't "accuse" him of lying. Just said very calmly "I'm sorry but you are lying right now so I can't continue this conversation".

I was so proud of myself for handling that calmly and rationally and enforcing my boundary. Now the rollercoaster has gone down, down, down. H just confessed to a couple more OW from about 20 years ago. Sigh. I'm handling it well, but will this EVER end?

My H is one broken man. He PASSED the question on the polygraph about there being any more OW I didn't know about. He said no and PASSED. He is able to lie to himself so well I guess it's no wonder he tries to lie to me so often. Sigh.


Me - BW
Him - WH

Posts: 6618 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: Massachusetts
SabinatheOwl
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Member # 30023
Happy  Posted: 1:38 PM, February 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

d&c- Congratulations on enforcing your boundaries! Great job!

~ Sabina


Details & story in profile

"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow

"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."

Maya Angelou


Posts: 1350 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Metro DC
FmrLIer
♀ Member
Member # 29784
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, February 12th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7yrsbetrayed

On page 29 or thereabouts, you posted the Humanist & Agnostic 12 steps for the SA.

Are there steps for the SA's partner?

I attend a COSA group and I know it's good for me to be there because I'm with women who have been through or are going through the same thing. It's so important for me at this stage in working on myself to know that I'm not alone in this. That others, like you, have come through to the other side and made the M work.

My group is now gearing back to working the 12 steps and I'm having a hard time relating to them along with the concept that I'm still a co-dep. I accept that there is a higher power and pray - but the idea of turning it over and letting it go for God to handle doesn't feel right to me. I need to work on myself and I think following a 12 step program like you posted for the SA's would be great if it was adapted for the partners.

Do you know where I can find more info on it? Does it even exist?

Thanks!


Me (BS)
Him (fSAH)
OA/PA

Ignorance was bliss but it wasn't the reality of my marriage...


Posts: 427 | Registered: Oct 2010
dazdandconfuzed
Member
Member # 11692
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, February 12th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fmr - wow, great question! It never even occured to me that something like that might exist for our side of the equation. I'm looking forward to hearing the answer myself.

I have been really fighting the co-dependant lable. I have been really stubborn about it "No, HE has a problem. There's nothing wrong with ME" type mentality. But I had an ah-ha moment last night. H came out with, all on his own, that he would like to install keyloggers on both our computers. I asked him why - if this was for my piece of mind of if he was counting on my policing him to keep him honest. He says it is for my piece of mind, but I had a revelation.

We have a weird dynamic here - I DO think of my H as less than capable when it comes to a lot of things. Like he NEEDS my help to manage every day life. But the whole keylogger thing kind of opened my eyes a bit. I had forgotten or overlooked or whatever that my H is actually a very highly intelligent man. I realized he has been ENCOURAGING me to think that way, that he just can't function without me to help him. And I bought it despite the fact that I know it isn't true. I WANTED it to be true. It gave me a sense of purpose.

So I guess I have to rethink the whole co-dependant thing. The truth of the matter is, my H is more than smart enough to find a way around any keylogger I might install. I check internet histories. Not as often as I used to, but I do. And he is MORE than smart enough to figure out how to cover his tracks. I just never wanted to think he was.

Now that I've had this revelation, I have to figure out what to do with it.


Me - BW
Him - WH

Posts: 6618 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: Massachusetts
unicornsearcher
♀ Member
Member # 912
Cool  Posted: 10:01 AM, February 12th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi guys!

I never put a keylogger on, but did have www.covenanteyes.com on for quite a while. My H is a mega computer geek, was still busted on our computer on DDay & we signed up for that cuz its hard for someone even really good with computers to get around it. It sends a report of a list of sites that have been accessed on the computer as well as when it has been shut off. But if motivated enough, I'm sure there is a way around just about anything.

Anger was a major "tell" with my H, since he normally is very even natured. If a simple question got him into the ring with anger & defensiveness, that signaled I hit on something or too close to something else he was nervous about. After defogging, he'd be patient & understanding as well as sad, but he'll talk as long as I want to & often apologize again instead of pushing me away angrily.

I just posted some info on writing letters that you guys might find helpful at:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=394971

And please don't forget that love letters aren't just for lovers, so if you don't feel comfy writing one to your WS, but have children, neices, nephews, etc, write them a love letter or even short love note. Kids really benefit from love letters.

I know Valentine's Day can be really tough for some of you & I hope that you can feel our cyberhugs & support when you struggle.


11/02 Busted WH 4+ cheating yrs, 11/06 Busted [Month Long Lustfest]. 2/1/08 admits false version of betrayals, so no full disclosure / "whole truth" yet. '09 Together, great work in progress. '12 Still gladly united.

Posts: 14209 | Registered: Jan 2003 | From: Calif
Tal
♀ Member
Member # 3300
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, February 12th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is not about sex addiction--but.....

All these years my husband has told me that if anything happened to him, I would not be left destitute because he had me listed on surviver benefits for his military retirement & had life insurance through the VA.

I needed to do our taxes. He lost the first tax statement for his retirement pay & sent for another one. (This seems to happen every damn year). He said he hadn't seen it come in the mail--I went looking.

I found the statement he said he never saw. I also found statements that show he never did sign me up for the survivers benefits and no life insurance either.

I called the VA & several other places yesterday to find out if this had EVER been in place. They told me it had never been done and now it is too late--he missed the window of opportunity.

So basically--I feel like I am married to an irresponsible 15 year old. All these years I thought he had my back in these most crucial of ways. I can't do anything about the fact that he is overweight, out of shape and smokes like a chimney. I gave up nagging about that a long time ago, but at least I thought I would not be left a bag lady if his lifestyle killed him early. Nope--not so much.

When I told him what I had found out--he swears up and down that he *thought* he had done all that. He then starts berating me for being upset about it & insinuated that I was some kind of gold-digger. Yeah--WS, I married you and put up with SA and infidelity & immature, self-centered crap because I wanted to make sure I had health care & a few hundred a month if you died.

AAARRRRGH! Seriously, I think this man has arrested development!


Posts: 2145 | Registered: Jan 2004
7yrsbetrayed
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Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, February 12th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Are there steps for the SA's partner?

COSA etc all follow the exact same steps as the addict. I find it ridiculous but that's what they do.

You would have to just use the steps as I posted them.

This is the issue I have with the 12 step programs, they force all partners into a teeny, tiny little box and force not only the co-dep label on us but also the CO-ADDICT label by asking the partners to do the exact same steps as the addict.

I think group support is vitally important but I think they are decades behind in what that does and should look like.

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
unicornsearcher
♀ Member
Member # 912
Cool  Posted: 2:25 PM, February 12th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think group support is vitally important but I think they are decades behind in what that does and should look like.

I agree, especially since so much research has been done in the last decades. But even with the limitations (& my reservations), it does offer a group of fellow travelers on a very rocky & darken road.

When all hell broke loose, I had my WS sign a quitclaim to the house. It was mine for decades before we got married but in our state would have been entitled to some interest in it especially since I added him to the title.

When the second lustfest hit, I busted him in 4 weeks instead of 4 yrs. And I filed the quitclaim deed in the property records, effectively removing his name & any interest in the house. There was another reason it made sense to do that, but his fogginess & lustfest were the final coffin nails. It was after that that his SA issues came to light.

I did not ask for, but did get voluntarily from him, a notorized stmt giving me all interest in the retirement account. I never used that one. He was desperate for me to give him time & wanted me to feel safe to do that in as many ways as I could while wanting me to know how serious he was at making our marriage a great one for both of us-- even tho divorce would have been a better bet at that point.

It can be hard to come up with consequences that don't in effect punish / affect you negatively as well. Some can be a lot more drastic than others obviously, but unfortunately, they are crucial to the process.

Oh, I remember that one consequence early on after DDay was that he had to do an activity of my choice. We took a Couples Communication class.

I did agree that it would be a reasonable activity, as tempting as it was to have him wear a sandwich board saying "I'm a busted Lying Cheater, don't be the next one wearing this sign. 'Fess up first or Don't cheat, its not worth it".


11/02 Busted WH 4+ cheating yrs, 11/06 Busted [Month Long Lustfest]. 2/1/08 admits false version of betrayals, so no full disclosure / "whole truth" yet. '09 Together, great work in progress. '12 Still gladly united.

Posts: 14209 | Registered: Jan 2003 | From: Calif
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, February 12th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree, especially since so much research has been done in the last decades. But even with the limitations (& my reservations), it does offer a group of fellow travelers on a very rocky & darken road.

They really need to catch up and approach it more from a trauma standpoint than co-dep or co-addict. While both of those exist I don't think it is as common as simply being a trauma victim suffering from Complex PTSD. I wish groups would focus on that and the fact that those things are what CAUSE the co-dep behaviors. We have all done co-dep things and behaved in co-dep or even co-addict ways, but WHY is that? Gee, maybe it's because of the trauma of being BLINDSIDED by finding out our partners are SA and our partners gaslighting us.

Food for thought.

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
SabinatheOwl
♀ Member
Member # 30023
Revenge  Posted: 7:45 PM, February 12th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Re: Codependence & Co-Addiction

I will accept that I have codependent behaviors, but not that I'm a co-addict. I've serious reservations with 12 step groups but I attend because I need IRL support I go anyway. My mental health issues partially result from SAWH's behaviors, because of this I'm adamant that I'm not addicted to him. I'm highly offended by the suggestion that I'm addicted to him. I don't enjoy the diagnosis I have & the thought that I'm addicted to the person who has made my symptoms worse is disgusting.

Re: doing the identical 12 steps as addicts- I did wonder about that but never connected the dots that the reason the anon groups have us do them is because they consider us co-addicted. My feathers are totally ruffled now.

*sigh*

~ Sabina


Details & story in profile

"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow

"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."

Maya Angelou


Posts: 1350 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Metro DC
OptimisticMe
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Member # 30658
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, February 13th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They really need to catch up and approach it more from a trauma standpoint than co-dep or co-addict. While both of those exist I don't think it is as common as simply being a trauma victim suffering from Complex PTSD.

7 Yrs: EXACLTY how I see it. These books that were suggested are helpful, but I feel they are saying I am just as much responsible for him acting out as he is. I do not take ANY responsibility for that. I know I made it easier for him at times, but most men would not have used that as an excuse for an affair. I think I had minimal co-dep behaviors before I married SAWH, but I was healthy and normal. It wasn't until accidentally finding evidence of affairs that I became a raging, snooping, control freak! HIS BEHAVIOR caused me to be like this. With a normal husband, I would be a normal...no make that a great...wife. Glad to see someone else sees it the same way I do. After all, if you think your husband is cheating on you, wouldn't it be worse NOT to investigate? Wouldn't that be true co-dependency if you didn't care how he disrespected you and chose to completely ignore it? Sure I blow up at him and act like a crazy bitch at times...but isn't that better than being passive all the time and giving him zero consequences?


Me: 28, BW
Him: 32, WH, Sex Addict
3 kids: 13 DD (his), 4 DD (ours), 2 DS (ours)

Married 8 years.

Hubs is firm in recovery from SA and is like a new man and husband. We are happily reconciling and making great progress...nope, ass is back


Posts: 111 | Registered: Jan 2011
chocobcm
♀ Member
Member # 30156
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, February 13th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am so happy to see the route this thread is taking. The past few months since Dday I have held on to the book "your sexually addicted spouse" by Barbara Steffens and Marsha Means for dear life. I do not want to be labeled co-addict just because my H managed to fool me for all these years. In the book they explain how all the codependent behaviors can be seen as trauma symptoms. Much more up my alley.

I do think I will join s-anon this week as I need the support from like minded people, but I have promised myself that I will not say Hi my name is _ and I am a co-addict.

[This message edited by chocobcm at 3:43 PM, February 13th (Sunday)]


Me: 24 BS
Him: 25 WS Multiple OEA/Multiple Phone relationships.

M: 6yrs

D-day 11/14/10 (found 5 years worth of emails/chats etc.)


Posts: 75 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: NY
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, February 13th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"your sexually addicted spouse" by Barbara Steffens and Marsha Means

Funny, Choco, I was thinking about writing about this book myself. I was devouring it for awhile a month ago. I should get it back out and read some more. I was so excited to read about the difference between codependency and reaction to trauma. The book makes SO much sense to me. I know I have some co-dependent behaviors to address, but that doesn't begin to handle it all.

I think it'd be great if there was a new group to combine the trauma issues with the codependency issues. I like my S-anon meetings very much. I get a ton out of them. When they talk about stuff I don't agree with, I just let it slide. The one thing that sticks in my craw the most is when they say they shouldn't be snooping, that that is their "disease". I don't see it that way. My WS isn't in recovery, so I have to monitor to see if I am safe or not. I think it'd be co-dependent behavior if it dominated my life.

Thanks for mentioning this book, Choco. I told my CSAT about it and she said she hadn't see it. My MC has definitely seen my PTSD and he has helped me with it.


Posts: 1060 | Registered: Aug 2010
unicornsearcher
♀ Member
Member # 912
Cool  Posted: 4:38 PM, February 13th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They really need to catch up and approach it more from a trauma standpoint than co-dep or co-addict. While both of those exist I don't think it is as common as simply being a trauma victim suffering from Complex PTSD. I wish groups would focus on that & the fact that those things are what CAUSE the co-dep behaviors. We have all done co-dep things & behaved in co-dep or even co-addict ways, but WHY is that? Gee, maybe it's because of the trauma of being BLINDSIDED by finding out our partners are SA & our partners gaslighting us.

Absolutely agree with the quoted above.

The sad reality is that all the 12 organization has done even thru all the decades since started & added flavors after AA, they are very rigid about things that don't take into affect the wide range of knowledge & research since then at all.

And to me its even sadder that they do cram the partners into the co-dep / co-addict box the way they do.

There is really an unpleasant history behind the 12 steps & how they have operated, which is sad since they could be such an awesome group by acknowledging more of the power people have over their own decisions as well as helping create a healthier partnership type marriage.

I know some think it is emphasized more, but the meetings I've been thru, etc, the focus was more on how powerless people are & how the best way to address that is constantly go to 12 step meetings, forever. And I didn't see a lot of encouragement to make or keep friendships and/or relationships with people that weren't sympathetic to the 12 step programs.

I think its incredibly harmful & sad that instead of discussing how to have more connection between the partners other than the "addiction / disease", the focus seems to be how you will need to be in a 12 step program permanently or else.

They do not do enough to foster independence from the 12 step program itself by teaching how to enhance personal relationships & connections with other people especially those that are NOT addicts. After all, especially with SA's the issues is intimacy & attachment.

Having good relationships & friendships with people that never had an addiction problem can also teach the addict many healthy coping skills by example or discussion.

Bill Wilson had serious issues besides drinking that are still problematic to the AA program to date. And leaving 10% of the AA royalties he got to his mistress in his last will & testament does demonstrate at least one of those issues.

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-BillWill.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_W.

Temptation & reports of infidelity

Though Wilson alluded to unfulfilled temptation in an account in the Alcoholics Anonymous "Big Book" ("There had been no real infidelity," he wrote, "for loyalty to my wife, helped at times by extreme drunkenness, kept me out of those scrapes."[25]), biographers Francis Hartigan, Matthew Raphael, & Susan Cheever cite claims that Wilson had sexual contacts outside of his marriage.

Francis Hartigan, AA biographer & personal secretary to Lois Wilson, in his book states that in the mid 1950s Bill began an affair with Helen Wynn, a woman 22 years his junior. Bill at one point discussed divorcing Lois to marry Helen.

Bill eventually overcame the AA trustees' objections, & renegotiated his royalty agreements with them in 1963, which allowed him to include Helen Wynn in his estate. He left 10% of his book royalties to her & the other 90% to his wife Lois.

In 1968, with Bill's illness making it harder for them to spend time together, Helen bought a house in Ireland.[26]

http://marriage.about.com/od/historical/p/loisbillwilson.htm

During several years of their marriage, due to Bill's chronic & abusive drinking, Bill & Lois were homeless. Living in the homes of friends, the couple made 52 moves in two years.

Bill after Lois' heart attack on their 36th wedding anniversary: "After all I've put you through, I need you to stay around a while longer so I have time to make it all up to you."
Source: William G. Borchert. The Lois Wilson Story: When Love is Not Enough. 2008. pg. 292.

Harriet Sevarino: "When they [Bill & Lois] would walk together in the gardens or along the dirt paths, they would always be holding hands. And I would see them kiss each other hello & good-bye whenever I was around.

You could tell they really loved & cared for each other. And don't forget, I was with them [as their housekeeper] over 35 years." Source: William G. Borchert. The Lois Wilson Story: When Love is Not Enough. 2008. pg. 320.

Susan Cheever: "Because Bill's sexual behavior is shrouded in secrecy, discussions about it evoke passion.

Some people believe that none of it is true; others claim that Bill was a sexual compulsive whose need for sex compromised everything else he believed in ...

Most of those who knew & worked with Bill say that he certainly had a sex life outside of his marriage to Lois ... Lois made enough of a peace with her husband's behavior to keep it under wraps." Source: Susan Cheever. My Name Is Bill: Bill Wilson -- His Life and the Creation of Alcoholics Anonymous. 2005. pgs. 225-226.

Francis Hartigan: "While other people I spoke with insisted that Lois never knew about Bill's affairs, Tom insisted that 'Lois knew everything & she didn't have to guess about it, either ... he would start rationalizing.

What would really kill me is when he'd say, 'Well, you know, Lois has always been more like a mother to me.' Which somehow was supposed to make it all right for him to cheat on her.'" Source: Francis Hartigan. Bill W. 2000. pg. 171.

Francis Hartigan: "In the mid-1950s, when Bill was in his early sixties, he began an affair that was different than any he had before. The Woman's name was Helen Wynn, & she was in her early forties when Bill met her.

Helen & Bill were together some fifteen years.

They saw each other regularly in New York & later in Pleasantville, a town 15 minutes south of Bedford Hills, where Helen bought a home." Source: Francis Hartigan. Bill W.: A Biography of Alcoholics Anonymous Cofounder Bill Wilson. 2000. pg. 190.

Francis Hartigan: "By the time Bill & Helen met, Lois had been long praticed in ignoring her husband's peccadilloes.

From all the evidence, Bill never stopped loving Lois. He seems always to have sincerely enjoyed her company & to have sought & respected her opinion. He never stopped believing that he owed his very life to her loyalty & support." Source: Francis Hartigan. Bill W.: A Biography of Alcoholics Anonymous Cofounder Bill Wilson. 2000. pg. 193.

Lois: "For my part, I would not let myself perceive that I was not as happy as I should have been after all my dreams of Bill's sobriety had come true.

Although my joy & faith in his rebirth continued, I missed our companionship. We were seldom alone together now. There was no time for outdoor weekends.

Bill was busy working with his alcoholics ... I felt left out & unneeded." Source: Lois Wilson. Lois Remembers. 1979. pg. 98.


11/02 Busted WH 4+ cheating yrs, 11/06 Busted [Month Long Lustfest]. 2/1/08 admits false version of betrayals, so no full disclosure / "whole truth" yet. '09 Together, great work in progress. '12 Still gladly united.

Posts: 14209 | Registered: Jan 2003 | From: Calif
FmrLIer
♀ Member
Member # 29784
Default  Posted: 6:44 PM, February 13th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Reading "Your SA Spouse" was the book that set off the light bulbs in my head. It was the one place I could check off a series of check marks next to the symptoms instead of the two in the co-dep books.

I was absolutely co-dep but more so wishy washy. I thought the only behavior I was dealing with was porn - and didn't even realize how much until a few months ago. I would voice my concern and put my foot down only to look the other way when I knew it was going on. Then I went the other route and accepted it into our M to spice things up - that fueled the fire - and it got out of control. By then he had realized he had a problem and had stopped the PA's a year before, but was still cybering and looking at porn. Him not having to click out of the porn made it worse and my co-dep kicked into high gear because I felt competitive with the women he was looking at instead of me.

Once I found what I did on his computer in August - all bets were off. I was to pissed to be co-dep or an enabler or any other label people want to place on me. I was truly traumatized by what I learned, then TT'd, further traumatized and finally our last DDay and that's when the real PTSD set in for me.

The nightmares the week after were horrible. I couldn't think straight for days. Wanted to stay in bed, would cry, scream and cry again. Now that I have a book to reference, I feel so much better.

In fact, SAWH was being a butt about something yesterday and I whipped out the book and showed him some passages so he would "get it" and he did. Thank God!

Ramble over!


Me (BS)
Him (fSAH)
OA/PA

Ignorance was bliss but it wasn't the reality of my marriage...


Posts: 427 | Registered: Oct 2010
unicornsearcher
♀ Member
Member # 912
Cool  Posted: 8:04 PM, February 13th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I think they will be doing a lot more research on how to more constructively deal with the SA partner & the associated trauma to the family including the kids. The disconnection from intimacy often can inhibit a good relationship with their own kids. And most did not have good role models so they don't have the skills to really connect with the kids either but some do, for many perhaps the only real love they let themselves feel without fear.

What also bothers me is that after trying to be a good partner & spouse, sometimes single handedly raising the kids & doing things around the house while the addict was acting out, they get so little to no credit for that. In fact, it's considered to be all co-dependency & co-addiction for the most part.

But the point is that a lot of the SA partners are able to give a ton of love & demonstrate patterns of behaviors that the SA could greatly benefit from which would be healing for both. Granted by the time a DDay blows everything up, a lot of the BS's are battered in one way or another. But many are inately honest, loyal, compassionate, empathetic & those are all things that a great marriage will need.

You don't want a parent-child relationship, you don't want unhealthy co-dependency or any abuse, & you don't want to do it as a "I'm better than you" manner at all. But you do want to be able to work on connection which can be done in a healthy way for both. And there are probably some things the SA can teach the BS as well, maybe how to be more spontaneous for example. Besides learning more about love, patience, kindness & how to balance self interest with healthy compassionate caring together.


11/02 Busted WH 4+ cheating yrs, 11/06 Busted [Month Long Lustfest]. 2/1/08 admits false version of betrayals, so no full disclosure / "whole truth" yet. '09 Together, great work in progress. '12 Still gladly united.

Posts: 14209 | Registered: Jan 2003 | From: Calif
Bamboozled1
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Member # 5764
Default  Posted: 8:10 PM, February 13th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am going to take exception with several statements on this page. I belong to S-Anon. It and SA do not have the same steps (as COSA does). The first step is different for each program--in SA they are powerless over lust and as as result their lives are unmanageable. In S-Anon we are powerless over sexaholism. (After all, that's what got us in the door--the SA of someone we love, which has helped to make our lives unmanageable.

Nowhere (that I can think of) in any S-Anon literature are the words co-dep or co-addict used. The notions of these concepts came along long after the 12 Steps. Now, some people in a mtg may use these words to describe themselves--but the program never uses those words.

Before I attended a 12 step mtg I thought there was no way that it would work for me b/c the whole "god" notion was really tripping me up. While we do use the word "god" in the Serenity Prayer, most people in the groups I attend refer to their Higher Power rather than "god." Each person decides on what that HP is for them. For some it may the the god of their religious background. For some it's the power of the group itself--for some it's nature--it all depends on the person.

In an S-Anon mtg, no one says "Hi, I'm Joe Blow, and I'm a co-dep". You just say your name.

And finally, as with any 12 Step group, you take what you like and leave the rest. No one is asking you to do some rigid program. It's up to you to work in your own way in your own time.

I would suggest that if you've never been to a mtg that you go with an open mind and give it several mtgs to see if anything clicks for you. It's not for everyone. It's a simple program that requires a lot of work. Some of the steps may seem impossible, and unecessary, but they really can be an amazing way to live with dignity and serenity. The healing I have rec'd has been priceless, and the changes in myself has improved every relationship in my life. I don't "have" to go for the rest of my life b/c I'm just that screwy, I keep going back to give back to the newcomers what was so freely given to me.


Posts: 1851 | Registered: Nov 2004
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 10:27 PM, February 13th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What also bothers me is that after trying to be a good partner & spouse, sometimes single handedly raising the kids & doing things around the house while the addict was acting out, they get so little to no credit for that. In fact, it's considered to be all co-dependency & co-addiction for the most part.

Exactly!


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

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