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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts 5
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, February 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know where the shame is coming from that is bringing about the rage but I'm not asking.

4 Core Beliefs (which are amplified when one is not sober and faking it and lying)

The 4 Core Beliefs of a Sex Addict
1. "I am basically a bad, unworthy person."
2. "No one would love me as I am." (Or, "If you knew me, really, really knew me, you would leave me!")
3. "My needs are never going to be met if I have to depend on others."
4. "Sex is my most important need." (or "Sex is the only way I can get love.")

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
lost_in_space
♀ Member
Member # 24302
Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, February 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks 7. What I meant was what specifically was triggering this outburst.

It could be my having asked him about how the convos came about or it could be that he is actually attracted to his boss and felt 'caught'. Or it could be that he's supposedly NC with his parents who are incredibly toxic. (the NC was encouraged by IC) I looked on the computer and he was googling them and their address. That may be the trigger. It could be that I wouldn't swoon when he said he did 90 days and immediately jump into bed with him. Could be a combination of all those things.

I'm just not going to go digging for answers. That's for him and his IC to do. He's been led to water so many many times and I'm not going to lead him there anymore. I need some sanity.

I asked him what step he was on since he said he had his 90 days and he told me number one or two. I usually don't ask him about it at all. Whenever we talk about it he's defensive and it turns into a fight. He never comes home from his meetings and shares anything.

I am not seeing changes in him so that leads me to believe there aren't really any and I should still strictly focus on my kids and myself.


Me: BW 38

Last DDay: 7/15/09
TT: 2/28/11
TT: 3/5/11
Dday again: 3/10/2011
All Done: Better late then never.


Posts: 3513 | Registered: Jun 2009
cleo
♀ Member
Member # 9000
Default  Posted: 9:19 PM, February 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can I get some input on powerlessness mentioned in the 12 step program.

What exactly does that mean. That the addict is powerless over the addiction? Or powerless over ending the addiction without a Higher power.

I am a Christian and do believe that we need God in our lives to give us strength to overcome sin ...but is this powerlessness claim a copout??

I know in addiction there is a compulsion that is developed over time...but I am confused about the powerlessness of addiction and choice.

Obviously many addicts have chosen to quit the addictive behavior when things get too painful in their lives. So they can make a choice when they want too.

Input and clarification??

Thanks, Cleo

[This message edited by cleo at 9:21 PM, February 21st (Monday)]


BS(me)54
WS(him)52 - diagnosed SA in 2011
Filed for Divorce 11/12 - he is still chasing women
Disclosed 14 affairs beginning 1 year after our marriage in 1986

Posts: 748 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: Texas
cafeaulait
♀ Member
Member # 29173
Default  Posted: 12:06 AM, February 22nd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What exactly does that mean. That the addict is powerless over the addiction? Or powerless over ending the addiction without a Higher power.

The abbreviated version we talk about in my COSA meetings for the first three steps is:

*I can't
*God Can
*I think I'll let him

The concept of powerlessness - is more of the thought - that they accept that they cannot control their addiction on their own.
I truly believe that my H wanted to stop his destructive addictive behaviors. When it came down to it - the consequences of his actions could not outweigh the compulsion to act out. Being powerless over his compulsion does not excuse him from responsibility of his actions.

[This message edited by cafeaulait at 12:11 AM, February 22nd (Tuesday)]


Me- BS 40
Him- WH 45 - SA
DD1 - 4/3/09 DD2 - 7/15/10 DD3 - 8/10/10 The truth and details of his Sexual Addiction
Married 16 years 1 child - 16y.o.
Reconciled and working recovery

Posts: 65 | Registered: Jul 2010
Tal
♀ Member
Member # 3300
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, February 22nd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

May I please have some feedback on some of the things I am hearing at this point?

Me: Did you read that? What are your thoughts on what I gave you to read? (What Every WS Should Know from the Wayward forum)
Him: Yes, and it sure explained alot about the tension and mistrust in our relationship. I had been thinking you were really over-reacting, but now I see that you are having normal reactions that are to be expected. I also see that a lot of the dumb things I said to you when I was being defensive just made things much worse.
Me: That's very true. So you regret saying those things now? If you do, I honestly feel I would like to hear an apology.
Him: I AM sorry and I regret so many things all along. That starts with betraying you the first time (meaning PA in 2001). I regret even trying to have a relationship in the first place--I obviously don't know how to sustain a relationship and I worried about that when we first got involved. My history has shown that. I obviously have a pattern and do a lot of damage. Now I am afraid that I have done so much damage to you and our marraige that it is irreversible.
Me: so do you understand now why you do what you do in this pattern...the porn use...the cheating?
Him: No, I don't know why. I wish I did. It isn't the man I want to be. I want to be a good husband and I'm trying to be. I'm willing to find a way to go to the meetings and I'm willing to read anything you think might help. I've been looking on the internet for things that might help me understand and do better.

[This message edited by Tal at 10:38 AM, February 22nd (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2145 | Registered: Jan 2004
Tal
♀ Member
Member # 3300
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, February 22nd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What really bothers me about that conversation is that he recognizes a life-long pattern of cheating and sabotaging relationships...but draws a total blank as to why?

Even on a good day, my WS is rather emotionally retarded, but he's not a stupid man. Is it really possible for an SA to be that oblivious? To have absolutely no self-insight?


Posts: 2145 | Registered: Jan 2004
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 11:46 AM, February 22nd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it really possible for an SA to be that oblivious?

It's called denial. He's an addict. He's still in denial. He hasn't hit rock bottom.
I regret even trying to have a relationship in the first place--I obviously don't know how to sustain a relationship and I worried about that when we first got involved. My history has shown that. I obviously have a pattern and do a lot of damage. Now I am afraid that I have done so much damage to you and our marraige that it is irreversible.

Right here is where you lost him in the conversation. Things got too close and challenged his state of denial so he dove right into the 4 Core Beliefs and played the martyr card. Once that happened there was NO WAY he could admit his addiction.

Let me translate that last bit.

I regret even trying to have a relationship in the first place--I obviously don't know how to sustain a relationship and I worried about that when we first got involved. My history has shown that. I obviously have a pattern and do a lot of damage.

is Core Belief #1:
"I am basically a bad, unworthy person."
Now I am afraid that I have done so much damage to you and our marraige that it is irreversible.

is Core Belief #2
"No one would love me as I am." (Or, "If you knew me, really, really knew me, you would leave me!") Basically, he's goading you to agree with him.
No, I don't know why. I wish I did. It isn't the man I want to be.

is a manifestation of Core Belief #3
"My needs are never going to be met if I have to depend on others." (but obviously mixed with #1 too.) He's protecting his addiction. He claims he's looking for help but it's failing him. No one can help him. He cannot depend on anyone. He's unhelpable. He's unworthy.

And of course this is all underscored by Core Belief #4:
"Sex is my most important need." (or "Sex is the only way I can get love.")

Which he thinks he needs to survive.

Bottom line, he hasn't hit rock bottom yet. He's still in denial. When there is a crack in that he immediately starts filling it in to protect his addiction (which he basically perceives as himself.)

7

[This message edited by 7yrsbetrayed at 11:48 AM, February 22nd (Tuesday)]


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
Tal
♀ Member
Member # 3300
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, February 22nd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I tend to agree with your analysis, 7Years. I also think there's another layer to the "I've done too much damage and it may be irreversible".

If it's irreversible, then he can say the relationship is broken without having to do the work to repair. If he does the work to repair, he'd have to face the addiction head on. It's more denial, deflection and protection of the addiction.


Posts: 2145 | Registered: Jan 2004
BetrayedandLost
♀ Member
Member # 15994
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, February 22nd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello all.

this is my first post in this thread...and admittedly with 4 small children I haven't been able to read all previous 47 pages.

I ordered a couple of books from Amazon that should be here tomorrow for me to start reading.

My WH has wondered if he is SA. And his therapist recommended a 12 step meeting. He has only been able to go once because of travel committments...but he really enjoyed it and will be attending again next week.

He swears this is his first PA....I"m not 100% sure that I believe him....but I 90% do. We get Playboy magazine and have for the past 12 years because I bought it for him as a gift when we were dating. No other mags come to our house...he doesn't watch porn. And doesn't look at porn on the internet(he rarely uses the computer here and his work computer is tracked by his IT department so he can't there) I have no idea how often he masturbates but I'm guessing it's a lot more than he wants me to think it is.

So I guess I'm just looking for input/info. How do I really know if he is SA or not? I have found a CSAT counselor in our area...but he doesn't accept insurance....so I have to see if we can afford to go there or not. But it looks like an awesome place and I'd really like to. Unfortunetly he's the only one within 25 miles of our house.


Me:37 WH 38
4 kids 8,6,3& 1
DD1: 8/3/07. 2 Mo online EA
DDay#2 11/1/10 2 Month EA/PA with ho-sistant
DD#3 1/14/11 False R...nc broken
DD#4 1/17/11 admitted continued PA
Trying

Posts: 520 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: OH
IRN2006
♀ Member
Member # 23717
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, February 22nd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would get an official CSAT diagnosis.

SA is an interesting addiction, in that it is high individualized. One person's acting out behaviors can be different from another's.

Does your husband have emotional intimacy issues?

The lack of emotional intimacy was a huge red flag that I chose to ignore. For my husband, he rarely talked. As in not sharing anything, even if it was "I had a peanut butter sandwich for lunch." And, this was his MO before we started dating (we were friends for 5 years before we dated.)



Posts: 1295 | Registered: Apr 2009
BetrayedandLost
♀ Member
Member # 15994
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, February 22nd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hmmm. I guess he does....The only time he shares information is when I specifically ask for it. Like 'where did you go for lunch?' and he never volunteers what he had unless I ask......

I guess I never considered that to be emotional intimacy though.

Interesting....

I'm sitting here now getting ready to see how much our insurance covers for out of network. This therapist doesn't bill to insurance directly because insurance requires a diagnosis and he feels that is a breach of confidentiality and they can use it against you later for pre-existing. But he is a CSAT...and his partner works with spouses and they special in infidelity too. I think it would be the best place for our MC!


Me:37 WH 38
4 kids 8,6,3& 1
DD1: 8/3/07. 2 Mo online EA
DDay#2 11/1/10 2 Month EA/PA with ho-sistant
DD#3 1/14/11 False R...nc broken
DD#4 1/17/11 admitted continued PA
Trying

Posts: 520 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: OH
BetrayedandLost
♀ Member
Member # 15994
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, February 22nd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Damn it...Insurance will only cover 60% after meeting the 1K deductible.


Me:37 WH 38
4 kids 8,6,3& 1
DD1: 8/3/07. 2 Mo online EA
DDay#2 11/1/10 2 Month EA/PA with ho-sistant
DD#3 1/14/11 False R...nc broken
DD#4 1/17/11 admitted continued PA
Trying

Posts: 520 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: OH
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, February 22nd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BetrayedandLost
If your husband is a SA the CSAT is worth every penny and every sacrifice you need to make. A good CSAT is worth his weight in gold. Seriously.

Here are the books I recommend:

"Your Sexually Addicted Spouse: How Partners Can Cope and Heal" by Barbara Steffens and Marsha Means

"Deceived: Facing Sexual Betrayal, Lies and Secrets" by Claudia Black PhD

and

"Mending a Shattered Heart: A Guide for Partners of Sex Addicts" by Stefanie Carnes.

How do you know if he's a SA? Well if HE says he is, BELIEVE him. It's not an easy thing to admit and in your case it does not sound like he's trying to use it as a cop out: "I'm a SA, I can't help it, get used to it." Instead he is seeking treatment. So unless or until a CSAT tells him he's NOT, he is.

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
Nouveau
Member
Member # 1731
Default  Posted: 5:18 PM, February 22nd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry to hear about your insurance disappointment. My insurance was changed by my employer this year to a $1,000 deductible (from a $500 deductible the previous year). Who the hell can afford health care anymore????

Last night, he started telling me how "good" he's been, and that he hasn't "done anything wrong" at all. All I did was stand there and stare at him. (I still have not confronted yet with my knowledge that he has been acting out)

He became angry and said, "There's nothing on my computer and you know it. Because that's all you ever do is go on my computer all the time. I can tell because my chair is always moved."

Me: "If you didn't leave your chair stuck out in the middle of the floor, I wouldn't have to move it to be able to get to my piano."

End of conversation.

That sounded like a foggy, acting out, blameshifting, guilty SA to me.


I sing the songs of a woman who has passed through anger and outrage to a kind of stunned resignation in the face of overwhelming human folly.....

Posts: 4895 | Registered: Jul 2003 | From: The great frozen tundra
BetrayedandLost
♀ Member
Member # 15994
Default  Posted: 6:15 PM, February 22nd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The sacrifice we would need to make would be to take our son out of preschool...and I just can't do that to him. I can't.

I'll be calling this CSAT tomorrow to see if there is anyone else they can point me to....or if I can at least get WH to go to the intake to see what the guy says. The intake is $140 and after that it is $125/session. I really wanted to use them for our MC as they also specialize in Infidelity. We'll see we also have some flexible spending money we can use.

But on top of the Dr's rate I have to pay a sitter a minimum of $40.

He goes back and forth between he is and he isn't. He isn't acting out in most of the ways that I read about SA's....but he's concerned because his drive is so high....but he doesn't seem ready to talk about it either...and I don't want to push him.


Me:37 WH 38
4 kids 8,6,3& 1
DD1: 8/3/07. 2 Mo online EA
DDay#2 11/1/10 2 Month EA/PA with ho-sistant
DD#3 1/14/11 False R...nc broken
DD#4 1/17/11 admitted continued PA
Trying

Posts: 520 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: OH
IRN2006
♀ Member
Member # 23717
Default  Posted: 9:47 PM, February 22nd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Betrayed-
Sex addiction is NOT about sex.

In sex addiction, sex is the method by which a person gets high and numbs themselves from feeling.

Sex addiction is no more about sex than alcoholism is about being thirsty.

My recovering SA has a high drive. We both do,actually.

However, as my husband's addiction was escalating, we went from 3 times a week to once every 2 months.

Unlike many couples dealing with SA, we had hysterical bonding for a very long time after d-day. My kid watched alot of tv.

ETA: You should check to see if the office has a payment plan. I saw a therapist while in grad school. I paid out of pocket. I still managed to pay $80/month while supporting myself on 10K a year.

[This message edited by IRN2006 at 9:51 PM, February 22nd (Tuesday)]


Posts: 1295 | Registered: Apr 2009
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 11:08 PM, February 22nd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BetrayedandLost
Did you use this tool to search for a CSAT?
http://iitap.com/find_csat.cfm

Just trying to see if we can find other options.

At least have him do an eval with a CSAT and hope that he's 100% honest.

As far as you thinking he doesn't act out like "most SAs."

If you had asked me in 2004, I would have told you that my rSA didn't do ANY of those things. No porn. No masturbation that I knew of. He'd NEVER cheat on me.

In 2005 I was blindsided to find out otherwise. All of the above and then some. Compulsive porn and masturbation (with and without porn) online hookup sites, multiple partners. (Read my profile)

Some SAs only look at porn and masturbate. Some SAs don't look at porn at all (my rSA is in group with one guy right now. Porn is just not his thing but he's still a SA.) Some SAs like hookers. Some don't. Some act out with the same sex. Some don't. It's a varied and complicated disease.

I'm not saying you'll find out the same thing I did, I'm just saying that sex addicts are very good at hiding their addiction. It's so much easier to hide than drugs or alcohol or gambling.

7

[This message edited by 7yrsbetrayed at 11:09 PM, February 22nd (Tuesday)]


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
BetrayedandLost
♀ Member
Member # 15994
Default  Posted: 7:26 AM, February 23rd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for the info. And yes that is the tool I used to find a CSAT...If I widen my search to 50 miles...it pulls up 2 more.

My 'Out of the Shadows' book should come today.


Me:37 WH 38
4 kids 8,6,3& 1
DD1: 8/3/07. 2 Mo online EA
DDay#2 11/1/10 2 Month EA/PA with ho-sistant
DD#3 1/14/11 False R...nc broken
DD#4 1/17/11 admitted continued PA
Trying

Posts: 520 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: OH
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, February 23rd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Betrayed,
Your husband should read Out of the Shadows, it's written for the sex addict. I strongly advise you NOT to read it. It will just scare the hell out of you and at this juncture that would be stupid. Please don't read Out of the Shadows until you've read all the spouses books I recommend and Don't Call It Love.

I cannot stress this enough, Out of the Shadows is written to "scare" the SA, you do NOT need that. Please don't do that to yourself. You need the spouses books. Please learn from my mistake. I read it too soon and it set our recovery back a couple of months at least.

7

[This message edited by 7yrsbetrayed at 2:28 PM, February 23rd (Wednesday)]


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
BetrayedandLost
♀ Member
Member # 15994
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, February 23rd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well that sucks....I bought it for me ....to understand But I also got a spouse book.

I got him his ADD book the therapist wants him to read.


Me:37 WH 38
4 kids 8,6,3& 1
DD1: 8/3/07. 2 Mo online EA
DDay#2 11/1/10 2 Month EA/PA with ho-sistant
DD#3 1/14/11 False R...nc broken
DD#4 1/17/11 admitted continued PA
Trying

Posts: 520 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: OH
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