My life is soooooo much better away from it. I used to be on antidepressants off and on because I could not handle the insanity that he was feeding me. It was interesting that when he moved out the 'black cloud' went with him. It was a real relief.
Work towards limited contact and know that what he says to you is all projection. All he says about you is true of him.
As for a diagnosis, don't worry too much if someone says that he has a personality disorder or not. It can be very hard for a professional to accurately detect one especially when they usually only see the person with the problem who paints a very different picture of reality. schizoaffective disorder is pretty messed up from what I know. (living a nightmare )
Hang in there and do what is best for YOU.
The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.
A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.
If "backed to a wall" with the truth or accusations, does a NPD lie on purpose to be hurtful?
For example, if I was at him about something and seemed to be getting closer to the truth, WH would start spewing hurtful things or say "whatever you say is true if that's what you want to believe" or downright lie if I said did you do "x" with OW, and he would say yes, only to find out he lied. WH would say he did that because I was at him or "Nobody does this, no one asks these questions..." etc.
My biggest problem with NPD is needing reality checks so I don't feel like I'm going crazy.
I do want soooo much NC, but right now it's not viable. I am trying to be inderpendent.
My biggest problem with NPD is needing reality checks so I don't feel like I'm going crazy.
I feel like the lies are to hurt. Or at least to control. To control the amount of information. To control the dynamic of the situation. To know something that you don't. And if there is a conversation that begins to make him uncomfortable, you better believe it gets real ugly and turned back onto me in a hurry.
I do best if I don't have to see him at all or hear his voice.
You can say to yourself I suppose; "See, I did it. I used logic, reason, and reality to unveil his shit. I can do it."
Ok, I get it.
Sadly, it's a cold and maddening comfort.
It is like the saying goes "there is a little bit of truth to every lie".
(honest) i am doing this now. Im actually going to go to a domestic violence counselor to talk about who the abuser really is. Cuz hell sometimes i believe him that i abused him emotionally. So im getting to know more about it for my own sanity. Ill share what i find out.
So his reality is still that I'm the docile wife who thinks she's deranged who will run around in circles trying to please him. I got a serious of self-serving texts from him the other day with him telling me how much he still loves me, how he was hurt (!) that I had such a bad image of him, how he wanted to say things to me, but that I would misinterpret them, how he knows we can't be together, but he still loves me and wants us to be together, how he's lonely most of the time, blah blah blah.
Even if I were to believe him, everything is ALL ABOUT HIM. HE'S lonely. HE loves me. HE misses me. HE knows we can't be together, but HE still wants to say these things to me.
On the other hand, everything about me is bad. I HURT him with my poor image of him. I MISUNDERSTAND everything he says. I'M keeping us from being together.
That's what I'm supposed to run back to, the land where he's just a poor, misunderstood, loving fool abused and scorned by his ex?
Yeah right. He's still friends with the skanks who broke up our marriage, he has alienated the skanks that he used since the marriage ended, and he just broke up with his girlfriend. The time was ripe for him to send a bunch of awful texts that no one in their right mind who knew the truth would listen to, especially since I have been out of Oz for over a year now.
Stay strong, my fellow spouses of NPDers. There is hope, and light at the end of the tunnel. Just being away from the crazy is vacation enough.
the quote thread is like sports center...only better. Way better.
The biggest problem I'm having right now is the shame I feel. I cannot believe how stupid I was. I let someone tell me that if I were a better person I would think more about his skank's feelings and less about my own. I actually felt guilty for taking him away from her.
I allowed him to snowball me in so many ways every day that I forgot where he ended and I began. I am an otherwise intelligent person, so it's really hard for me to let go of that.
I suppose time heals all wounds, right? Every day I stay away from him makes me see a little more clearly. We have 2 kids together so I have to talk to him, but I am really trying to limit it to stuff about the kids ONLY.
It's hard because I'm so used to offering to help him all the time. As soon as he says he's having a problem my first instinct is to fix it. When I don't offer he gets angry and then comes right out and asks for my help because he knows it's hard for me to say no.
I'm doing it, though. I'm saying no. It creates drama and he tells me he won't forget how awful I've been to him. I have a really hard time not falling for it during a conversation, so I only talk to him through texts so that I have time to think before I answer.
I'm glad I have a place to come to for advice. My new motto is "Don't argue with crazy people". I just keep saying it to myself. I'll get there...
I've done it a dozen times ... without exaggeration. I take him back ... thinking, this time ... this time, it will be right, he'll be different, he GOT IT ... and we'll thrive.
But ... I know. I know in my head. It's my heart that is not following.
I'm not making excuses for him ... but shit, when someone tells me, "he's a monster" ... "he's an asshole" ... "he sick as can be" ... it almost makes me defiant. I KNOW he's sick ... disordered ... all of it ... but at some point, I DID LOVE HIM. I saw what was really underneath it all ... and hoped.
I just am scared. He's sending me emails in the dark of night ... music links that I can make no sense of ... but he's contacting me when I've asked him not to. My head says, "He's had a bad date or a bad fuck, and he's missing me" ... but my heart says, "Maybe, just maybe, he's getting it and getting better."
Please ... oh please ... talk to me. It's been less than two months since I left him for the 6th or 7th final cheat ... and I find myself missing him.
I've had such a busy and QUIET summer. YAY for me!!
Welcome all the newbies.
If your STBXH is NPD one of the hallmarks of the disorder is dishonestly. NPD's simply are not capable of looking at themselves or anything else in a realistic or "truthful" manner. They will drag their feet during the divorce process, lie about everything, hide income and assets, etc and then blame YOU for doing exactly what he is doing.
Can you expect "stalking behavior"? Unfortunately, yes.
My advice to you is to get all of your documents in order, make copies of everything to keep in a safe location and have your attorney deal with him and his attorney. Do not make "deals" or arrangements with him. He will only lie and or go back on what he has agreed to. Plus you need the distance to help clear your head from his lies.
Count on him lying to the child. The only thing you can do is prepare the child on how to handle this type of thing and to provide a good and stable enviornment. Set a good example yourself which means (I know very difficult) not bad-mouthing your STBXH. Believe me, this will be to your benefit. Your STBXH will be bad-mouthing you, and by you NOT doing the same your child will take notice. It will be hard at first, but you will be rewarded in the end.
I know it's hard, but try to remember the golden rule when dealing with an NPD....NC, NC, NC. And only believe what they do, not what they say.
It does get better. It takes time. But you have to get away from him and reamian NC long enough to begin to heal. You have to get to the point where you are healed enough to remain "unbaitable" to the NPD.
As jjct pointed out, I would listen very carefully as to what he is saying and the accusation he is throwing around. I believe there is some truth in the things he is saying about you....however they are actually true about HIM.
Keep documenting and try to go NC. It will save your sanity.
Get yourself into IC to dig down to find out why you felt you deserved a man like this. I think you've been abused (at least emotionally) and convinced to accept the breadcrumbs he tossed your way. You need to get to the point where you see him for the man he really is, not the image he presented to you.
You do NOT have to respond to his emails. You do NOT have to take his phone calls. If he's not bringing the children home at the time he is ordered to do so by the court order, document this and have him held in contempt. Don't try to reason with him.
Do not engage with him on the telephone, in emails or in person. Only address issues with the children. Ignore the rest and turn it over to your attorney.
your anxiety disorder and my bpd play off of one and other to make us both very sick
What a NUT-CASE! That doesn't even deserve a response.
I don't think it's possible for any NPD to every be honest about anything. I think they are ALL pathalogical liars. What ever their reason for lying...could be to be mean, to control, to feel powerful, to seem mysterious, to save their ass, to blame shift....who knows? They just cannot tell the truth. Ever.
Welcome. You're going to experience so many emotions....I remember the shame and the anger so well. I was so disgusted with myself! Keep posting. You're in a good place.
I like your motto! Another one is "don't try to make sense out of non-sense.
Actions speak louder than words. It's easy for him to type a drunken email and link it to music lyics. Don't you deserve better than that? How is he backing this up? Any action? No? Then you know you're just going back for more of the same.
Keep moving forward. Block his email.
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001 (I didn't know)
Remarried 2008 (Happy!)
InvisibleMe: The shame of being with an NPD is paralyzing. It keeps you in the sick relationship, desperately trying to fix an oil well spill with a bandaid, and afterward, it keeps you stuck and slows down your healing. One of the things I had to remember was that I was a narcissistic supply for Dickhead; he picked me because I was fabulous. He wouldn't have chosen a useless, talentless hack; that's not the narcissist way.
stopthemadness: you said
I saw what was really underneath it all ... and hoped.
That's what you need to get over and accept: there is NOTHING underneath it all. NOTHING. (my) Dickhead is a serious pothead, so after so many years had gone by, he simply COULD NOT REMEMBER a lot of the tender things he told me. They were lies and half-truths designed to tug at my heartstrings. What you're saying is what you want to see. He knows this, and he plays on it.
.....he picked me because I was fabulous. He wouldn't have chosen a useless, talentless hack; that's not the narcissist way.
V, You rock!!
This is such a true statement! We ALL are fabulous. We all are a "super catch" to these assholes. Get aways from these jerks long enough and you will have people coming out of the woodwork saying things like, "We always thought you were WAY too good for him........"
Sit down and make a list of what you have offered him vs what he has offered you. It doesn't have to be financial, it can be something as simple as you make him "look good." These nuts are all about IMAGE and how things look. Forget reality, there is no reality when it comes to the NPD.
That's why they go so crazy when they are faced with exposure.
Every once in awhile he would say that I would eventually give in to the shallow part of my nature and want someone with better teeth and a nicer car and more money. It seriously made me feel like if I did want those things it was wrong. What a douche. Seriously. All I wanted was someone who gave a damn what they looked like and worked hard for what they had instead of living on whatever his mother could spare.
My NPD WH is not about looks, you see, he's all about reputation. He's the guy who will give you the shirt off his back. Actually, off my back was more likely, but no one ever seemed to notice. He won't ever refuse a request for help, but he can't actually be bothered to help anyone. I covered for him for years. I did whatever it was he told the kids or his family he would do, or I explained it all away for him.
His "poor me" act is what sucked me in, and what kept me there. Life was just so HARD for him, how could I expect him to remember that he promised his daughter a ride to the movies??? He's BUSY being nice to people!!
And what affair? Didn't we talk about this a year ago?? How DARE I assume that he would remember how hurt I was?! He has FRIENDS who need him to say nice things to them and stop at the store for them and give them rides to work, dammit!! He cannot be expected to also remember that I don't like him having girlfriends. It's just too much to ask!
His favorite way of getting me to shut up was telling me that I needed to grow up. "This is what marriage IS, baby. You think any other guy is gonna be different? Maybe you should think about what it's like to be a grown up and have all the responsibilities I have, just for a minute. I don't have time to worry about telling you that you look nice. You know you look nice, what the hell do you need me to tell you for?"
He sucks. That felt good.
V rawks, and ditto bingo.
They pick us cause we ARE fabulous -
NOT the half crazy lost people they bent their entire energies to turn us into.
And here's what I do to deal with this...
You need to get to the point where you see him for the man he really is, not the image he presented to you.
Remember the BAD.
The rages, the last minute needy dramas you just *had to fix*, the money-bleed from you, mom, everyone around them while they don't work...
THOSE are the glimpses of the real person, the one that HAS TO come out and snarl from the covers since it can't be held at bay at all times.
Realizing that all the bad stuff was real, and the charm, sex, etc. was an act of the narcissistic mask has helped me to detach and stay detached - not get sucked back in.
I just realized too, that I'm more and more remembering the bad as ACTIONS...
forgetting the mean and hateful WORDS.
They're all lies anyway, right?
No wonder I forget them. They hold no importance or reality whatsoever.
How bout that?
Seems their lies DO work to our healing-advantage after all.
Screaming ME ME'S, the lot of them!
[This message edited by jjct at 7:13 AM, September 21st (Tuesday)]
Sending hugs to you all.
psychotic, evil, sick, a liar, and a "crackhead"
as "crackhead" was in quotes I guess I am not supposed to literally believe he thinks I am on crack? Saw a new L yesterday and she sent me for a protective order immediately. I have a 2pm court appearance today. I am scared, sick to my stomach and queasy. He won't be there today. But I am afraid that there is not "enough" to get the order. He has not struck me, has not pushed me or made direct threats against ME (against my doctor yes, but no proof of that). Do I think he is capable of hurting me, even likely to? Yes, absolutely.
The best I have going for me is the therapy for fear, the meds for fear and the emails he sends and the violence in the porn and sex chats he has had recently. Rape porn... I had no idea. And I have that as evidence. But will it be enough?
Why can't monsters look like the monsters they are? I am so scared I am going to come off looking like a vengeful crazy bitch who can't take the fact that her husband has "moved on." And while I want him far far away from me and not able to harass me anymore, I know the kids still want and need a relationship with him. My fear for the kids is directly tied to me. I don't think he cares for them in a normal healthy way but I don't think he would physically harm them unless it was a by product of his rage at me. Or they witnessed something. I think it far more likely he'll hurt them by lying about me, or by letting them down, but I don't think that warrants protection from the court. Do I look crazy for saying "I am in fear for my life, but its ok if he visits my kids?"
This so sucks.
You may have to ask the courts to extend the PO to cover your children, or ask that you get the PO -- and then in family court get an emergency hearing based upon the PO that he only has supervised visitation while the situation is still volatile. If he is threatening people, you don't want him having exclusive access to your children. As you know, an N's rages will come out of nowhere. Can you guarantee he won't become violent while the children are visiting? Could you have guaranteed he wouldn't issue threats against your doctor?
He's past the point of being considered a rational human. At this time, you must protect yourself and your children and consider him to be something less than a trained animal. He will be unpredictable. Your children are depending upon you to save them from that, whether they know what he's capable of or not.
N's view people as possessions. You know that already. Part of his rage against you is that you aren't a possession he can control. His identity was tied up, in a large way, with YOU and how malleable YOU were. Now you're considering letting him have the children. What happens when, during one of his moods toward YOU, one of the kids acts out?
I'll tell you what happens. He transfers his rage at YOU to the child. The child is an extension of YOU. The child is now an uncontrollable possession. The child is now a target.
N's seldom form stable relationships with children who are over the age of puberty. That's about the time kids rebel in all sorts of little ways, and that sends an N right off the rails.
Get the PO for you. Extend it for the children, or get an emergency hearing stipulating supervised visitation until a psych analysis can be performed (you take one too). He is unstable.
(((caregiver))) I know you're afraid. I was afraid, too. But I also know that you're a very strong and capable woman or else you wouldn't have lasted this long in the separation process. I know the struggle you've already had, and I know that you've proven your strength and courage. You *can* do this.
He has led his own personal life for years, while with me. I got treated just good enough to stay 'comfortable'. This was a huge disillusion. My eyes are opening more with each hour he is gone. I can see now how he has lied to me every day by omission of what he was doing ... I was the 'cool' chick that didn't monitor my man's every move.
I come from a bad childhood - drug addicted mom, broken home, sexually & mentally abusive first relationship for 3 yrs.... then I turned 19..lol and ran!! Far and hard in the dead of night and left everything behind.
His background... wealthy parents, single child.. good home (although he differs on this and says his parents were alcoholics). He began drugs and sex at 14 until 18 when he got kicked out of the house and has since lived in his little self serving addicted life.
We met... first date... "schmoop, I have had a coke issue in the past but in 28 days I will be one year clean, I need you to know this before you decide if you can date me..."
me-- wow mature and forthcoming about weakness and what he is doing to fix them... impressive (and damn he is so hot...)
Two days prior to his '1 yr' being clean, dumps me out of the blue.. says he isn't good enough... we are opposites... (which we are) but now I am addicted... to him.. and beg him to see if we can make it work...
The relationship progresses.. 2 yrs together, and I find that he hasn't stopped the coke and in fact that is where he was until 8 in the morning.. on a binge... "it was a slip schmoop, I thought i was stronger... please let us try and get through this, it will make us stronger"... and yep, you guessed it, I did.
5 yrs in... I am no longer interesting, his friends and drugs have all his time, but I am good for a fuck when he wants
5.5 yrs, i start saying no to sex
6yrs we talk about my lack of interest, and i explain that i need attention and he will get laid.. his response is not to give attention if he isn't getting something out of it.. that i have turned him down so much he won't ask anymore and if i want it, i have to seek out him...
8yrs in... found out that he went to a concert in another city with his ex -- just friends-- and who the F am I to question it, he hasn't lied to me...
I tell him I am leaving, but first sit down with him and tell him that he was going to die a lonely old man because he is so self absorbed no one else is going to put up with his shit... and I left.. I was free... I was broke.. had no money ... but I was free!
Started dating a nice man.. then the emails start.. "i miss you, i miss us, give me a chance, i love you, baby please...." I don't.. i tell him that I am dating someone and to please stop, he had his chance... more emails.. "i missed you last night, so I drove by your place and your car wasn't there, so i drove by his place and it was there.. we all know you become a slut after two drinks"
...back to.. i love and miss you baby... I am dealing with my treatment, we have a passed, we have a life.. please another chance...
New bf got tired of the stalking and broke up with me.... enter my brain-lapse... why not give him another chance... i can always leave again...
We got married at 10yrs9mths in
Sept 4 was 1 yr anni.
Since DDay - he has been remorseful, said that he has lied by omission to protect me from the hurt it would cause to really know him... he admits his own self loathing, lack of self esteem and that it is difficult to be emotional...
Not sure he is N or just has tendencies..
clear eyes = shattered spirit
Addicts and Ns share many traits when it comes to manipulation. The key is to figure out which you're dealing with. The manipulation of an addict can be shut down using one method (put the responsibility back on them), the manipulation of an N can be shut down using another (complete and utter radio silence from you -- No Contact).
Get him into counselling immediately and tell the counselor yourself that you may be dealing with an addicted Narcissist.
During this time, you also need to read Co-Dependent No More by Melodie Beatty. You say your eyes are being opened. That book will help you keep them open and prepare you for some of what's to come.