Does that mean that without that characteristic, one cannot be a NPD (unless inverted)?
[This message edited by veritas at 3:05 PM, October 28th (Thursday)]
THEY are the ones who will determine when and how the relationship will end
It's interesting. My WH has NEVER been in a relationship where he was the one who was being broken up with.
Not all rage like an out of control lunatic. Some are quiet ragers and act out in other ways.
I've never seen him rage. He's raised his voice only a few times during our M.
Passive aggressive looks a lot like NPD, too.
I don't think that he's passive aggressive although I see the parallels.
NPD is complicated to understand.
I was so off balanced and so confused, literally for YEARS.
He had be believing that he had been "abused" by his former girlfriend/fiance' and that she had "cheated on him and done all of these other horrible things that were so bad that he couldn't even speak abou them. These stories were complete with the crocodile tears pouring down his face.
He would also talk about his "abusive childhood" and how his mother was an alcoholic and how horrible that was. There was "other abuse" too, but you guess it, he couldn't bring himself to speak about that either.
He always came across as very confident, very self assured. He could seen deep in thought at times, mysterious, kind, tender, soft hearted.
What I really fell for was the fact that he seemed to be really into me. He really paid attention to me and seemed to really listen to me and really care about me, what I said, how I felt, etc. What I know now, is that he was "studying me" and filing away every single thing about me that I told him. All of it was for either mirroring or for use later when he would need to attack me.
I didn't see any hint of rage or violence until later in the marriage. By then, I had come up with every excuse in the book:
1) Everyone is entitled to lose it once in their life.
2) I can't just give up after just one really bad incident.
3) He was drinking. It really doesn't count.
After we split, I contacted this old girlfriend of his who had supposedly "abused" him and had quite an interesting chat. In the beginning they had a great relationship. She put him through law enforcement training and paid for it. They lived together and were engaged. HE CHEATED ON HER, and his drinking became an issue. He started to become violent and she moved out. He went crazy and stalked and harassed her for YEARS. He would go to her apartment and spray paint "The Slut Lives Here" on her door. He would pull her over and harass her when he would see her driving on his area. It got so bad that she finally left the state. I got a totally different story from her than I got from him.
It is so difficult when a "normal" person is around a person who is NPD. You just can't wrap your brain around what's going on in the NPD brain. You just can't understand how or why someone would go to all of that trouble to lie and live a double life and to trick other people. It just seems so completely foreign and unreal, so we disgard the entire idea.
I have been "free" (sort of) since 2002 and I am still healing. And it's been EIGHT years!
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)
"Do you really think I would do something like that???" with a look of moral indignation
OMG!! I heard this ALL-THE-TIME. Then add "How could you even accuse me of something so terrible? I would NEVER do that to you!!"
Again with the tears rolling down his face, and me feeling like shit.
How could you accuse me of something so terrible? I would NEVER do that to you!
He said this so many times when there were red flags of the A and I would try to call him on it!!! Geez.
You know how they say there is a "WS script"? LOL, I think NPD have one too.
Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson
I've read how a narcissist will use a person as their supply source and discard them when used up.
What happens, if anything, to a NPD if their supply source discards them first? Does a NPD care, notice, react?
My XWH is not normally the raging violent type, in fact no one else has seen that and I only saw it a few times, except that I must say his absolutely cruel venomous things he would say when I pressured and pushed back on him (when I caught him cheating and was divorcing him or in other words was discarding him) was absolutely horrifying.
Had my parents not also been subjected to it, I would have thought I was losing my mind as he'd turn around and be "himself" again.
One of the other questions really hits a personal note with me as it's caused a lot of havoc and grief in my family - XNPD does favor one child more than the others and I'm still trying to figure out why (she's not the one with his tendencies, that one - while they're mild - has always been the one put down by him and hurt).
In fact, the treatment of my children and myself, aside from the infidelity, was the reason I divorced him.
I can't get rid of him though.
looked up my old posts from 20 years ago and mailed around my teenage ramblings, etc.
OMG. My supposedly Christian father did this to me with my diary when I was 19, right after disowning me in writing, in triplicate, while cancelling my health insurance, car insurance and removing me from all benefits as FT college student dependent. All because I finally told him "no" one day and insisted I be allowed to go to a move on Valentine's Day with my BF. My dad wanted to show the ramblings of a lonely 11-19 year old girl to my family and my BF's family to show them what a whore I was (only been with one man my ENTIRE life, and didn't even sleep with him till we'd together 2 years at age 21). Now I'm 33, and I still cringe when I think about what was sent out in the mail.
Geez - never through my a$$hat dad was NPD or PA... knew he was manic depressive, but I guess PA or NPD all fit, too. Great. Kinda explains how he could hide how he neglected his sons from his 1st marraige (Army had to garnish his wages to make him pay child support) and how he'd alternate between beating me and calling me names to crying on my bed because I'd made him hit me.
How do you know the difference between NPD and PA? I see some traits of both in my FWBF on bad days - I know he has abandonment issues with his mom, and is a middle kid of 3, so no surprises there, but I guess I'd like to know if anyone has had any hope with getting things to be better with your emotionally challenged SO? He has the avoidance and lack of initiative of the PA, and the rage of the NPD, and I can see how both personality disorders would have allowed him to think EAs are acceptable.
Boy that sounds even weird to myself. What is evil or mean to me, right?
Does one need to see acts of violence or physical abuse to be possibly living with a NPD?
But rage is the primary avenue for most narcissists. So when I look for a narcissist specifically, I look for a few things. If some of those things are missing, my antenna don't usually go up:
1. The person in question lies about things that don't even matter, just for the sake of a better story or to empathize.
I'm not talking about the big whoppers to get out of trouble. I'm talking stupid things. For example, we were at a party where NPDex was cooking jambalaya. NPDex had always said that cooking rice should be elementary to someone from Louisiana. Of course, his mother was the only person he knew who really cooked rice properly, and he refused to buy a rice cooker. One of the guests complimented him on his jambalaya, and remarked that they could not cook rice to save their lives. So NPDex says, "I can't either! That's why I have a rice cooker at home!"
2. The person in question is vicious with words and attacks out of proportion when criticized.
Some people just let criticism slide off their backs. Some people feel a little sting, but ultimately accept the criticism for what it is: another person's opinion. To an NPD, however, criticism is tantamount to a stabbing. They're coming back at you guns blazing, particularly if you do it in the presence of other people.
3. The person in question gives bad gifts and hates holidays -- except for their birthday.
That combo is the kicker. Some people are just bad gift-givers, which shows a lack of sensitivity. Some people hate holidays because they feel disappointed or overwhelmed by the pressure that the holidays can bring. The NPD simply does not like to expend time and effort for a day that isn't 100 percent about him or herself. They may contribute money, and might go to a few celebrations where they can look good to their friends / business associates -- but that, again, is about them. Which leads me to my next red flag.
4. The NPD might have been 1 person when you met, but they now behave differently in public than they do in private.
When you first met this person they were probably the life of the party, well-respected, etc. But now there are serious discrepancies between the way they behave at home versus the way they behave in public -- and it doesn't look good for the home team. They'll offer up that this is your problem, that you're expecting too much. They should be able to come home and behave like they want to, because you're family and you should be able to take the worse while other people get the better. What's the point of having family if you can't throw a tantrum, scream, and emotionally abuse your partner and children at home while other people come up to you and tell you what a wonderful person your NPD is?
5. The partner of this person seems to be nice and empathetic, but very conflicted and confused.
New partners of NPD may not exhibit such confusion, but a lot of old-timers will have tons of horror stories that they just flick off their backs, having become inured to the craziness of the NPD. They'll provide details so shocking with such flatness that people who have either never experienced it, or who have been out of it for a while will either think they're lying, or wonder if they've lost their minds for staying. They don't usually attract much attention because on the outside, they appear to be stoic and strong, and it's really only when they open up about what's really going on that you start to see the cracks. Unlike most people, for whom infidelity is the iceberg that breaks their marriage, infidelity is only the tip for the wife or husband of an NPD.
6. So sayeth the NPD, so sayeth how it happened.
An NPD can minimize even after the fact. Mine took back an apology 2 years after he gave it because supposedly, what I said didn't really happen, but he just went along with it. Or there was the time that he kicked me while I was running from him after he gouged my ears while sitting on me, but that wasn't really violence because he didn't raise his hand to me. One of my favorites is when we were discussing the STD test I had to take because he was showing signs of gonorrhea. First he said that the test came out negative. A few months later he never got tested; it was a sinus infection. A year later, he denied it and asked me if I ever got an STD from him. I told him yes, that when we separated when our oldest was born, I later found out that he had given me one (from a supposed virgin with whom he would never have sex because her boyfriend was his friend). That's not even the end of the magical thinking. He later told friends that he had come to find out that I had never forgiven him for Virg-Ho, even though it happened 20 years ago.
I'll post more if I think of them, but this is basically what I look at.
[This message edited by veritas at 5:06 PM, November 2nd (Tuesday)]
I would add to check out his friends. How long have they been around? Any long term friends?
Most NPD's go through "friends" like most people go through socks. Once the "mask" starts to slip, most people begin to steer clear of the NPD. They simply get sick of being used, picking up the bill, being on the other end of the rage, etc.
NPD's don't seem to have very many "real" friends. They are either friends of your's or just aquaintences. But they don't seem to have any long term friends of their own.
And usually their relationship with their family is strange.
1-6...check, check and check! #2 might be slightly questionable but all of the others? Wow.
The part where he will make up stories, things that don't matter but he just makes them up? Big Time.
The part about gifts and presents and holidays? HUGE.
Talk about hitting the nail on the head. Scary stuff.
When I finally met him, the one and only time I met him after Dday, stories were shared, patterns of her behavior were revealed, and it was far from February.
It's one of the sucky ways being with these...people...changes you. How anxiously do you think I want to share her horrible awful craziness with anybody?
How hard does it make it to describe? How isolating it is! Tribe has helped me maintain what little sanity I have left. I love you. I cannot thank ever enough.
I know now, for a certainty, that the one she's glommed onto now feels the same way about me.
It's a pattern of the mask they paint. The brushstrokes may be different but the colors are the same.
What I really fell for was the fact that he seemed to be really into me.
Since I'm a guy, and a female battin her eyes at me is knee weakening enough, how do you think I would respond to someone who'd tell me she "took notes" of our conversations? Yes she was sizing me up for later use, for exactly everything sadtoo and v says. But what did I do then? What did I know at the time?
Not what I know now. Her fucking another man while I was away and giving her all my money was a gift. Though I did not know that either at the time.
I do now.
So will you.
On the few rare occasions when I have to see the x publicly, he introduces or refers to me as his "wife". We haven't lived together in over two years, and never speak. If there is anything going on with the kids, I email him.
We have been going back and forth to court for almost two years, and almost never see each other outside a hosptial/doctor's office on those rare occasions when he actually shows up for the kids.
We were at the hospital yesterday, (both kids had surgery), and I stayed as far away from him as possible, and he did it again.
This is just so fucked up......
Him: X, 51 PA SA NPD?
2 kids; DD14, DD8 divorced
Your being his once-chosen makes him look good.
(since there's no "there" there kwim?) His lies continue, and you're not as surprised as...appalled... ahh forgive me my dearth of adjectives for him sister! For you and your children, love and prayers! Many many many hugs!
superdad hasn't even called them since he left the hospital yesterday. my mom is here, and she's very helpful, and my brother will be here tomorrow. my relatives are more concerned with them than their father is.