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User Topic: Npd Thread Part 8
Rise And Shine
♀ Member
Member # 27513
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, October 28th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Veritas, are you saying that unless the narcissist is of the "inverted" variety, expressions of rage that can be seen is a characteristic of all NPD's?

Does that mean that without that characteristic, one cannot be a NPD (unless inverted)?


April 25, 2009

Posts: 3263 | Registered: Feb 2010
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, October 28th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Rage is usually a strong indicator. However, my NPD played a mild mannered, easygoing fellow for many years. As a matter of fact, it was an act of rage that ended our marriage. Because he knew he could not afford to go crazy, he vented in other ways: befriended all of my friends on facebook, accused my uncle of encouraging divorce because he had molested me as a child (he hadn't) and had ulterior motives, looked up my old posts from 20 years ago and mailed around my teenage ramblings, etc. Passive aggressive looks a lot like NPD, too. This new, calm exterior combined with the out of control crazy that is him on the inside is as terrifying as his rages.

[This message edited by veritas at 3:05 PM, October 28th (Thursday)]


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
Rise And Shine
♀ Member
Member # 27513
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, October 28th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know if I'm dealing with NPD or not but there's enough red flags that keeps me going back to reading about it.

THEY are the ones who will determine when and how the relationship will end

It's interesting. My WH has NEVER been in a relationship where he was the one who was being broken up with.

Not all rage like an out of control lunatic. Some are quiet ragers and act out in other ways.

I've never seen him rage. He's raised his voice only a few times during our M.

Passive aggressive looks a lot like NPD, too.

I don't think that he's passive aggressive although I see the parallels.

NPD is complicated to understand.


April 25, 2009

Posts: 3263 | Registered: Feb 2010
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 5:09 PM, October 28th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The lightbulb didn't go on for me until the end.

I was so off balanced and so confused, literally for YEARS.

He had be believing that he had been "abused" by his former girlfriend/fiance' and that she had "cheated on him and done all of these other horrible things that were so bad that he couldn't even speak abou them. These stories were complete with the crocodile tears pouring down his face.

He would also talk about his "abusive childhood" and how his mother was an alcoholic and how horrible that was. There was "other abuse" too, but you guess it, he couldn't bring himself to speak about that either.

He always came across as very confident, very self assured. He could seen deep in thought at times, mysterious, kind, tender, soft hearted.

What I really fell for was the fact that he seemed to be really into me. He really paid attention to me and seemed to really listen to me and really care about me, what I said, how I felt, etc. What I know now, is that he was "studying me" and filing away every single thing about me that I told him. All of it was for either mirroring or for use later when he would need to attack me.

I didn't see any hint of rage or violence until later in the marriage. By then, I had come up with every excuse in the book:

1) Everyone is entitled to lose it once in their life.

2) I can't just give up after just one really bad incident.

3) He was drinking. It really doesn't count.

After we split, I contacted this old girlfriend of his who had supposedly "abused" him and had quite an interesting chat. In the beginning they had a great relationship. She put him through law enforcement training and paid for it. They lived together and were engaged. HE CHEATED ON HER, and his drinking became an issue. He started to become violent and she moved out. He went crazy and stalked and harassed her for YEARS. He would go to her apartment and spray paint "The Slut Lives Here" on her door. He would pull her over and harass her when he would see her driving on his area. It got so bad that she finally left the state. I got a totally different story from her than I got from him.

It is so difficult when a "normal" person is around a person who is NPD. You just can't wrap your brain around what's going on in the NPD brain. You just can't understand how or why someone would go to all of that trouble to lie and live a double life and to trick other people. It just seems so completely foreign and unreal, so we disgard the entire idea.

I have been "free" (sort of) since 2002 and I am still healing. And it's been EIGHT years!


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 5:11 PM, October 28th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Do you really think I would do something like that???" with a look of moral indignation

OMG!! I heard this ALL-THE-TIME. Then add "How could you even accuse me of something so terrible? I would NEVER do that to you!!"

Again with the tears rolling down his face, and me feeling like shit.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, October 28th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Rise, what are some of the red flags that put you in mind of npd?

Posts: 6028 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, October 28th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

J,
You're reading my mind. That was my next question.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:25 PM, October 28th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OMG Sad!!

How could you accuse me of something so terrible? I would NEVER do that to you!

He said this so many times when there were red flags of the A and I would try to call him on it!!! Geez.
You know how they say there is a "WS script"? LOL, I think NPD have one too.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 9:56 PM, October 30th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Someone posted this on Facebook today. Interesting.

http://www.lemondrop.com/2010/10/27/cheating-the-personality-type-that-strays/?ncid=webmail


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7635 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
rainagain
♀ Member
Member # 14917
Default  Posted: 8:49 PM, October 31st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've read how a narcissist will use a person as their supply source and discard them when used up.
What happens, if anything, to a NPD if their supply source discards them first? Does a NPD care, notice, react?

My XWH is not normally the raging violent type, in fact no one else has seen that and I only saw it a few times, except that I must say his absolutely cruel venomous things he would say when I pressured and pushed back on him (when I caught him cheating and was divorcing him or in other words was discarding him) was absolutely horrifying.

Had my parents not also been subjected to it, I would have thought I was losing my mind as he'd turn around and be "himself" again.

One of the other questions really hits a personal note with me as it's caused a lot of havoc and grief in my family - XNPD does favor one child more than the others and I'm still trying to figure out why (she's not the one with his tendencies, that one - while they're mild - has always been the one put down by him and hurt).

In fact, the treatment of my children and myself, aside from the infidelity, was the reason I divorced him.

I can't get rid of him though.


Now, faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you cannot see. Heb 11:1
I done been through the pain and the sorrow the struggle is nothing but love. Maino
Me: Divorced BS 49
DS22, DD19, DS17

Posts: 1277 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Massachusetts
alura5
♀ Member
Member # 17593
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

looked up my old posts from 20 years ago and mailed around my teenage ramblings, etc.

OMG. My supposedly Christian father did this to me with my diary when I was 19, right after disowning me in writing, in triplicate, while cancelling my health insurance, car insurance and removing me from all benefits as FT college student dependent. All because I finally told him "no" one day and insisted I be allowed to go to a move on Valentine's Day with my BF. My dad wanted to show the ramblings of a lonely 11-19 year old girl to my family and my BF's family to show them what a whore I was (only been with one man my ENTIRE life, and didn't even sleep with him till we'd together 2 years at age 21). Now I'm 33, and I still cringe when I think about what was sent out in the mail.

Geez - never through my a$$hat dad was NPD or PA... knew he was manic depressive, but I guess PA or NPD all fit, too. Great. Kinda explains how he could hide how he neglected his sons from his 1st marraige (Army had to garnish his wages to make him pay child support) and how he'd alternate between beating me and calling me names to crying on my bed because I'd made him hit me.

How do you know the difference between NPD and PA? I see some traits of both in my FWBF on bad days - I know he has abandonment issues with his mom, and is a middle kid of 3, so no surprises there, but I guess I'd like to know if anyone has had any hope with getting things to be better with your emotionally challenged SO? He has the avoidance and lack of initiative of the PA, and the rage of the NPD, and I can see how both personality disorders would have allowed him to think EAs are acceptable.


"Love is that condition in which the happiness of another person is essential to your own." - Jubal Harshaw "Stranger in a Strange Land"

Posts: 253 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Texas, USA
realitybites
♀ Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, November 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H is definitely P/A. But he is also very much what I would classify as a "Mr Nice Guy". But I also see many of these traits of covert things, not just the A, but agreeing with me all the time tooooooooo much, crazy conversations that go in circles, never wanting to look bad to the outside world....yet I don't think he is full blown NPD, can one be somewhat or sort of but not in an evil way?

Boy that sounds even weird to myself. What is evil or mean to me, right?

Does one need to see acts of violence or physical abuse to be possibly living with a NPD?


Posts: 5524 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
veritas
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Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, November 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First of all, you can be NPD with PA tendencies, and you can be PA with NPD tendencies, and you can be either one or the other. And all the cluster B personality disorders exhibit similar behaviors. So it's all very confusing.

But rage is the primary avenue for most narcissists. So when I look for a narcissist specifically, I look for a few things. If some of those things are missing, my antenna don't usually go up:

1. The person in question lies about things that don't even matter, just for the sake of a better story or to empathize.

I'm not talking about the big whoppers to get out of trouble. I'm talking stupid things. For example, we were at a party where NPDex was cooking jambalaya. NPDex had always said that cooking rice should be elementary to someone from Louisiana. Of course, his mother was the only person he knew who really cooked rice properly, and he refused to buy a rice cooker. One of the guests complimented him on his jambalaya, and remarked that they could not cook rice to save their lives. So NPDex says, "I can't either! That's why I have a rice cooker at home!"

2. The person in question is vicious with words and attacks out of proportion when criticized.

Some people just let criticism slide off their backs. Some people feel a little sting, but ultimately accept the criticism for what it is: another person's opinion. To an NPD, however, criticism is tantamount to a stabbing. They're coming back at you guns blazing, particularly if you do it in the presence of other people.

3. The person in question gives bad gifts and hates holidays -- except for their birthday.

That combo is the kicker. Some people are just bad gift-givers, which shows a lack of sensitivity. Some people hate holidays because they feel disappointed or overwhelmed by the pressure that the holidays can bring. The NPD simply does not like to expend time and effort for a day that isn't 100 percent about him or herself. They may contribute money, and might go to a few celebrations where they can look good to their friends / business associates -- but that, again, is about them. Which leads me to my next red flag.

4. The NPD might have been 1 person when you met, but they now behave differently in public than they do in private.

When you first met this person they were probably the life of the party, well-respected, etc. But now there are serious discrepancies between the way they behave at home versus the way they behave in public -- and it doesn't look good for the home team. They'll offer up that this is your problem, that you're expecting too much. They should be able to come home and behave like they want to, because you're family and you should be able to take the worse while other people get the better. What's the point of having family if you can't throw a tantrum, scream, and emotionally abuse your partner and children at home while other people come up to you and tell you what a wonderful person your NPD is?

5. The partner of this person seems to be nice and empathetic, but very conflicted and confused.

New partners of NPD may not exhibit such confusion, but a lot of old-timers will have tons of horror stories that they just flick off their backs, having become inured to the craziness of the NPD. They'll provide details so shocking with such flatness that people who have either never experienced it, or who have been out of it for a while will either think they're lying, or wonder if they've lost their minds for staying. They don't usually attract much attention because on the outside, they appear to be stoic and strong, and it's really only when they open up about what's really going on that you start to see the cracks. Unlike most people, for whom infidelity is the iceberg that breaks their marriage, infidelity is only the tip for the wife or husband of an NPD.

6. So sayeth the NPD, so sayeth how it happened.

An NPD can minimize even after the fact. Mine took back an apology 2 years after he gave it because supposedly, what I said didn't really happen, but he just went along with it. Or there was the time that he kicked me while I was running from him after he gouged my ears while sitting on me, but that wasn't really violence because he didn't raise his hand to me. One of my favorites is when we were discussing the STD test I had to take because he was showing signs of gonorrhea. First he said that the test came out negative. A few months later he never got tested; it was a sinus infection. A year later, he denied it and asked me if I ever got an STD from him. I told him yes, that when we separated when our oldest was born, I later found out that he had given me one (from a supposed virgin with whom he would never have sex because her boyfriend was his friend). That's not even the end of the magical thinking. He later told friends that he had come to find out that I had never forgiven him for Virg-Ho, even though it happened 20 years ago.

I'll post more if I think of them, but this is basically what I look at.

[This message edited by veritas at 5:06 PM, November 2nd (Tuesday)]


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 6:19 PM, November 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with everything V just wrote.

I would add to check out his friends. How long have they been around? Any long term friends?

Most NPD's go through "friends" like most people go through socks. Once the "mask" starts to slip, most people begin to steer clear of the NPD. They simply get sick of being used, picking up the bill, being on the other end of the rage, etc.

NPD's don't seem to have very many "real" friends. They are either friends of your's or just aquaintences. But they don't seem to have any long term friends of their own.

And usually their relationship with their family is strange.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
realitybites
♀ Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, November 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WOW!

1-6...check, check and check! #2 might be slightly questionable but all of the others? Wow.

The part where he will make up stories, things that don't matter but he just makes them up? Big Time.

The part about gifts and presents and holidays? HUGE.

Talk about hitting the nail on the head. Scary stuff.


Posts: 5524 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:11 PM, November 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I too had the story of her x being horrible and abusive, to the point where I never ever wanted to see him, she had me to the point I was going to kick his butt into February, and I was afraid I'd snap.

When I finally met him, the one and only time I met him after Dday, stories were shared, patterns of her behavior were revealed, and it was far from February.

It's one of the sucky ways being with these...people...changes you. How anxiously do you think I want to share her horrible awful craziness with anybody?
How hard does it make it to describe? How isolating it is! Tribe has helped me maintain what little sanity I have left. I love you. I cannot thank ever enough.

I know now, for a certainty, that the one she's glommed onto now feels the same way about me.

It's a pattern of the mask they paint. The brushstrokes may be different but the colors are the same.

What I really fell for was the fact that he seemed to be really into me.

Since I'm a guy, and a female battin her eyes at me is knee weakening enough, how do you think I would respond to someone who'd tell me she "took notes" of our conversations? Yes she was sizing me up for later use, for exactly everything sadtoo and v says. But what did I do then? What did I know at the time?

Not what I know now. Her fucking another man while I was away and giving her all my money was a gift. Though I did not know that either at the time.

I do now.
So will you.
(((TRIBE)))



Posts: 6028 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
whyohwhyohwhy
♀ Member
Member # 17890
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, November 5th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question for you guys.

On the few rare occasions when I have to see the x publicly, he introduces or refers to me as his "wife". We haven't lived together in over two years, and never speak. If there is anything going on with the kids, I email him.

We have been going back and forth to court for almost two years, and almost never see each other outside a hosptial/doctor's office on those rare occasions when he actually shows up for the kids.

We were at the hospital yesterday, (both kids had surgery), and I stayed as far away from him as possible, and he did it again.

This is just so fucked up......


what did I ever do to deserve this?

Me:47 BS
Him: X, 51 PA SA NPD?
2 kids; DD14, DD8 divorced


Posts: 1030 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: east coast
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:13 PM, November 5th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well whyo - that's an EASY one - you are FABULOUS! and he will steal your fabulous at any and every opportunity...to try to paint himself...cover himself...with your goodness.

Your being his once-chosen makes him look good.
(since there's no "there" there kwim?) His lies continue, and you're not as surprised as...appalled... ahh forgive me my dearth of adjectives for him sister! For you and your children, love and prayers! Many many many hugs!


Posts: 6028 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Heartless Bytchh
♀ Member
Member # 12347
Default  Posted: 9:06 PM, November 5th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((whyo)))))
I'm sorry you're going through this. I hope your kids are going to be ok.


Woodchipper pretty much trumps everything.-Rufus Turner
Sometimes I feel like SI is that person who says... "if you can't say anything nice... come sit by me!"-rumorhasit

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: Another day in Paradise
whyohwhyohwhy
♀ Member
Member # 17890
Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, November 5th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thanks guys!
they're both ok. both of them had tonsils/adenoids done yesterday for horrendous problems with strep, so they're still in a lot of pain.

superdad hasn't even called them since he left the hospital yesterday. my mom is here, and she's very helpful, and my brother will be here tomorrow. my relatives are more concerned with them than their father is.


what did I ever do to deserve this?

Me:47 BS
Him: X, 51 PA SA NPD?
2 kids; DD14, DD8 divorced


Posts: 1030 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: east coast
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