I'm heading towards D, I know it and am afraid of the outcome because of the NPD.
My sister has ramped up the issues and caused me much stress this week. In talking to my dad (who is a thesis away from a Masters in psych) and our MC, it seems that she is likely NPD. Dad says also possibly anti-social.
I'm at the point I'm willing to say f*ck off b!tch. So, one last chance- anyone have a list of pointers for dealing w/ NPD or a helpful site or something?
TIA for letting me barge in w/ my non-M NPD issues.
ETA- I can post the texts and emails if you all need to see a sample of how we communicate to give me pointers.
[This message edited by Holly-Isis at 2:41 PM, November 12th (Friday)]
❣Your soulmate is the person who helps grow your soul into a better being rather than tearing it down❣
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001 (I didn't know)
Remarried 2008 (Happy!)
I just want to tell you that I understand and also that NPDs use sex as a way to control and I believe exactly as you describe. Reading these last posts were so helpful to me....., read back a bit, ask questions, and do not doubt your instincts....please trust yourself and your instincts more than anyone or anything. Then when you have questions, come here or research NPD. I've been where you are.
Holly Isis, Sad Too is right. We are all tangled up in this together and the more we help each other the more we help ourselves (and our children). My XSIL of my XWH NPD has been one of the most supportive friends I could have - she stuck with me and not him,.....not necessarily because she has all the answers, but more because she is also suffering from the same actions from the narcissistic people in her family that I am. We are if not figuring it out together, at least helping each other look away and towards a brighter future.
I hope I am not breaking guidelines, but a site that I have found helpful in addition to this site as it is very different - is http://www.voicelessness.com/narcissism.html
I have not posted in a while and I find that as I am reading the tribe's posts of the past few weeks I am crying. For you and for me.
Thank you every one of you for being here and voicing your thoughts.
This forum and SI is saving me.
[This message edited by rainagain at 8:53 PM, November 13th (Saturday)]
"Goal Oriented" is an interesting term. I don't remember if that was exactly if that's how it was termed, but it was something like that. And definately ACCURATE. I can only speak from my personal experience and "goal oriented" fits well.
For me at the time, I thought we were having magical love making sessions. (I was so stupid) But when I think back, for him it was this one man show for him. It was like he was just using my body to masterbate. He was only into himself and how HE was performing and what HE was doing. It didn't even seem to matter if I was in the room, other than as a receptical. (I need that shuddering icon here)
It was all very WEIRD and all very sick.
I STRONGLY suspect that my SIL is NPD and maybe my brother. The two of them together are a NIGHTMARE to be around. They have done everything in their power to destroy our family and to pit my parents against me and my other sisters. They have been unsucessful (so far) but they still try.
So, jump right in.
There's really no effective way to "communicate" with these people (ie your sister) unless you're stroking her ego. If you try and confront her, she will likely LOSE IT on you and turn everying around on you. Your best bet is to IGNORE and if possible go no-contact. But as with most family members that is impossible. So, the next best thing is just see her when you have to (holidays and such) and only say "hello, how are you? see ya later" and that's it" Avoid any highly charged conversations and politely nod if asked anything. And under your breath say, "FUCK-OFF-YOU-UGLY-BITCH!!" but NOT outloud and say it to yourself with a smile on your face. You'll start to have fun with it.
Maybe you can practice at THanksgiving!
Yet, at their core (NPD's) don't love themselves--in fact their self barely exists, and what part does exist is deemed worthless. All energy is devoted to inflating the self...
please compare this to:
One of the most dangerous aspects of NPD's is that they do, in fact, have real emotions. In fact, they are in almost constant pain and turmoil. They have two diametrically opposed self-images: The Super-Amazing-Better-than-everyone-else-who-is-Way-Above-The-Rules-The-Little-People-Must-Follow image, which is very, very real, coexisting with the equally real Low-Down-Piece-Of-Garbage-Who-Nobody-Could-Ever-Love image. They have a death grip on both of these images, and the conflict literally tears them apart. However, they cannot change, because that would mean letting go of both delusions and accepting the fact that they're just ordinary Joes and Janes, not the special snowflake they think they are. And that is the scariest thing in the world for them.
The latter was posted by a poster here, ThatWasFun. SI is cutting edge I tell you.
I want everybody to know that what is most thought about narcissists - the opposite is true.
They really hate themselves. Their craziness is just their efforts to appear sane, accepted, and ok for human consumption.
rain, I've done alot of crying on this thread. Everyone here has helped me clean my cheeks.
I'm fascinated by this site. Just when I get a thought or strong opinion on what I'm reading I'm blown in another direction (not by the site for you readers that have not been there) but because there's so much WORK to figure out our own lives. I always need to remind myself to focus only on my kids and myself.
I think I'm just having a hard time tonight with everything and not making much sense as it's my eldest DS's bday (19!) and DS was so happy that Ndad actually took him out to dinner (and I've spent the day alone). Thank god he didn't blow him off.
I can see it so clear now in hindsight. It's all so much more clear.
But at the time, when I was in the midst of it all....the confusion....he had this MASSIVE ego on the one hand, but then was this broken little boy on the other hand. It was so...well...CREEPY. And he was like that with everything. He could be unbelievably charming and engaging...but then in the next moment he could be on the floor throwing a temper tantrum like a three year old. He could be rational and as sane as they come, but set him off and you'd be dealing with an out of control lunatic.
My life with him was like walking on eggshells, living with a loose cannon, wonderful at times, more horrible than you can ever imagine at others.
Here's where we are currently. My sister wanted an opinion on the email her BFF sent her as an explanation as to why the friendship ended. I gave it, lovingly yet still calling her on issues. She blew up at me, got mad and said I was saying there were more issues than just in the letter and now she was *all* of what both of us said about her. I tried to tell her it was a difference in interpretation and I loved her. She hung up on me.
A week or so later she texts me asking if I'm going to stay mad at her forever and a few more texts. She knows we're on vacation- camping. Yet keeps it up. I answer that I would love to be there for her but we need definitions and boundaries as I have my own issues I am working on.
I don't hear from her from Sept. 2 until Nov. 7th, then an "I love you Sis" text. This happened to be right after I blocked her from most of my personal FB posts. Then she starts blowing up my phone texting and calling. I text her that we're on our way to a MC appt. and after that I have a recovery class (both emotional draining). She stops but in the middle of the class she starts up again. Even our facilitator thought she was being crazy.
So, cutting out a whole bunch of the junk since then, here's where we are. I decided to follow my recovery facilitator and MC's advice and set boundaries. I addressed issues she brought up in her recent email though I know it's likely useless, I just needed to say my piece.
Most of you have more experience, what do you all think?
I've said before, it's very hard to communicate with you as I will say one thing and it comes across as another. Or perhaps you're expecting something else and then what I say becomes hurtful.
Not replying to a text in any way for two months is like hanging up. How am I supposed to know that you are giving me space unless you communicate that to me? My text didn't ask for space, it asked for boundaries- expectations, limits, communications and so on to be clear so there wasn't all of this struggle like we have now. It wears on both of us.
And then you decide to contact me after just dropping the ball for two months (again- it's not like you let me in on your thought process) and I'm supposed to jump to every call, text and email? It's feeling very one-sided and I'm feeling somewhat resentful.
I resent the insinuation that I'm lying about who I have as a support system. You saw me talking to friends in a very desperate week- one which I discovered my husband had lied to me about ending the affair- and assume that they stuck through the recovery when my own sister had harsh words for me? No. I have been virtually alone in this. What you have seen on Facebook is pretty much the extent of my friendships other than my volunteer time. I hesitate to reach out after being hurt so much.
I bristle that you explain away your behavior on the day BFF called you out Yes, I understand you've been unhappy [in your M]. Perhaps I should have told you what you told me- just make a choice either way and STOP complaining about it. I can just imagine how you would have responded to that.
I am frustrated but I am not willing to throw away our relationship. I keep asking you for expectations and have gotten nothing. So perhaps we can lay out some ground rules to begin rebuilding our relationship?
For now, I would like to start with communication through writing. Email, text messages, Facebook- whatever works. In order for each of us not to feel ignored, we could agree to a time frame for replies, such as 24 or 48 hours, even if the reply is just something like, "I am busy/having a bad day, I will reply in full in X hours."
I think at this point keeping it initially to one emotional issue at a time would be best, so we do not just throw more on the pile without resolution. Let me know where you would like to start in your reply.
If this is not acceptable to you, I understand. I am suggesting these boundaries in order to better build what has become a strained relationship. When expectations are clear, there is less room for hurt and misunderstanding.
I love you and hope we can figure out what works for us to remain in contact. If you choose otherwise, I understand, but please know that I will remain open to communication when you are ready. Just let me know what your choice is.
Wow, that's pretty much what it's like with my sister.
Does anyone else think or feel this?
It was like he was just using my body to masterbate.
Mine made this perfectly clear after he came back from Brazil. He was so disconnected from the sex, it wasn't even funny. Weeks went by when he'd come home and all he wanted was a blowjob; masturbation was the only sex I got other than sucking him off. Once while we were having sex, he reached over, and put some porn in, too.
My recommendation in dealing with the NPD person is to say what you need to say without any expection of being understood.
If you expect a NPD to understand you, explaining yourself will become a part-time job.
If you expect a NPD to acknowledge you, explaining yourself will be a full-time job.
I can't say for sure if your sister is NPD, but IMHO we all have felt the effects of standing too close to one.
It looks like:
I think it's a good email, I think it's very clear, very non-threatening, and very extending the olive branch, so to say.
BUT: The problem isn't with the email, it's with your sister. One of the characteristics of NPD is self-focus. They simply cannot or will not put themselves into someone else's shoes.
It's shocking to me how she is so focused on herself and her situation with her friend and how she has now dragged YOU into this situation by BAITING you. She has not considered the fact that you are going through possibly the worst family crisis you have faced, yet she demands your attention to this petty issue.
To me this is typical NPD.
Here's the thing. ANY TIME an NPD asks you for your "opinion" on anything, DO NOT GIVE IT!! You are walking into a trap. And there is NO WAY to win. Even if it is something as simple as "what should I serve for dinner on Thursday?" Anything you say will be wrong. If you suggested "chicken" for dinner, somone will say during dinner, "why didn't we have meatloaf?" That will be YOUR FAULD, and believe me, you will hear about it...probably during your next MC session in a demanding text message. This is a little extreme, but you get the idea.
When it comes to talking about friendships and relationships ending and talking "honestly" about those things....WHOA!! That is a bear-trap.
The only think the NPD wants to hear is that they were WONDERFUL during the relationship and the other person was a HORRIBLE (whatever) and that they did absolutely nothing wrong and the other person is sure to wither up and die without the NPD in their life. They want to hear that the person who ended the relationship is either crazy or mentally ill for ending the relationship and cannot possibly have any rational reason for ending the relationship.
If you agree, even slighly with the person who ended the relationship, that wrath will be turned onto YOU. An NPD cannot handle even the tiniest hint of critisism.
This is why it seems that the NPD has flocks of fans and supporters at times. (it never lasts) But people are scared to death to confront these people beacause they have seen what happens to those who do.
In families this is especially apparent. It's not as easy to just cut-ties and be done. Like you, I have a sister-in-law who is definately NPD and probably my brother. They are IMPOSSIBLE to deal with. They have caused horrible damage in our family and anyone who dares to say anything is simply cast out of their lives. My parents are scared to death of them and refuse to do anything about them. Therefore they run all over our parents and tried to run over me and my sisters. There are three of us girls and we have all stood up to them and refuse to be abused. (we've been cast out) And we have told our parents if they would do the same, they might straighten out. (my brother works for my dad and depends on him for $$, but never shows up for work but demands $$ anyway) But our parents are afraid to do it because they threaten to take the grandkids away.
I'm like, "where are they going to go? You have the money??"
[This message edited by sadtoo at 4:06 PM, November 15th (Monday)]
I know that the non-boundary issues might as well have been left out of the email, but I wanted my say even knowing she wouldn't concede on any point.
It's amazing how much what I've read on this thread applies to dealing with her. I'm almost inclined to write a sympathy note to the BFF, but if they ever become friends again, I don't want it biting me in the rear. I did, however, refuse to delete BFF as my friend when Sis whined about it.
Makes a lot of sense. The only thing I found helps with NPD WH, is to try to keep the conversations superficial, and on THEM Nothing "deep" KWIM? It is hard to do this, as they do try to drag you into drama, but just try to get off the phone with any excuse.
But then as soon as she does respond, she will EXPECT a response from you ASAP. And if she doesn't get it, she will "blow-up" your phone. (love that BTW )
This is part of the crazy making shit we talk about here.
I used to say to my XNPDH, "Oh silly me. I forgot again, the rules only apply to me. You can do whatever you want."
But that seems to be the way it is. They have all of these expectations, demands, rules, regulations, etc on other people. But when it comes to their own behavior...anything goes. If it suits them or fits into their schedule then, well maybe.
It can literally drive a sane person MAD.
Politely nodding your head in agreement and quietly saying to yourself under your breath "FUCK-YOU!!" is a great alternative to the craziness.
MrH reminded me he told me not to give an opinion on the BFF's email. I tried to avoid it, she pursued me for a week then when she finally cornered me, got mad at me b/c I should have "known" just how important my opinion was. Then, when she didn't like it- back to NC. You guys are right, it's
I'm frustrated dealing with her and we're on opposite coasts. I can't even imagine how it is to have to deal w/ an X like this b/c of kids. And HTAF- you're still M to one? I wish you peace, I can't even imagine.