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User Topic: Npd Thread Part 8
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, November 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RB,
That "crying" thing was really weird. He only did it up to and during the wedding. I didn't even cry at the wedding.

I'm not much of a crier. I think maybe I'm cried out. But I guess I've never really been a crier. I mean I cry, but only when there's really something to cry about. I'm not one to sit around and cry about Hallmark commercials or anything.

But I remember with him (in the beginning, the VERY beginning) thinking, "Oh, he's so sensitive..."

GAWD!! I was such a SUCKER!!

And I didn't even clue-in to the fact that he wasn't even crying at the "right times" or about the "right things." But I kind of chalked it off to the fact that I'm not that emotional about things. And I didn't want to "judge" him. (I should have!!)

It wasn't until later (after the wedding) when the crying was over and the insane laughing hyena stuff was going on that I started to think, "W-T-F??"

By that time, he had stopped telling people how "perfect" I was too [shudder] and was on to being critical of EVERYTHING I did!

And I mean everything. He was critical of my weight (which was the lowest it had every been in my life) and my make-up, my clothes, my hair, and how I plucked my eye brows...yes, You're reading correctly. How I plucked my eyebrows! He was "bothered" that I had some "stray" eyelashes in the corner of my eye and insisted that I pluck those because they were so distracting and unattractive. We're talking maybe two friggin' tiny little hairs, but he WOULD NOT SHUT UP about it. Then it was my nails. And the hair under my arms. He wanted me to have that permanently removed because even after I shaved, he could still see it and "it was gross."

I have DARK hair and am dark complected.

I'm sitting there looking at him in his FAR from perfect physical state thinking, "What a complete JACKASS!!!"

Then he would get on me about the house. I had a house keeper so it wasn't about how clean the house was. He was bothered how I had MY kitchen arranged. I was like, "Okay Jackass, when you start doing the cooking, you can have a say." But he literally wanted to come into my kitchen and MOVE EVERYTHING AROUND!!

WHY???????

He had no reason that made any sense. In the end, it seemed the only reason was becasue he just wanted to hear himself shout out orders.

We did some remodeling on the house and I wanted to open up the kitchen. (older house built in the 60's) with a small kitchen back in the corner of the house with a Hazel door. I wanted to take out the two walls and the door closing it in and open up the third wall as a counter and snack bar.

Oh NO!! Bad idea according to him. Why? Because by removing those walls we couldn't "keep the scents of cooking" in the kitchen..."

Have you EVER heard anything so STUPID in your life???!!!

The kitchen is wide open now.

OMG. I hate that FUCKER. I'm so G-L-A-D he is gone.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 7:15 PM, November 18th (Thursday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 8:04 PM, November 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OMG. I hate that FUCKER. I'm so G-L-A-D he is gone.


I am not a tattoo kinda gal... but I could so get that tattooed on any part of my body. Really feeling it right now. Fucking no job asshole Stretch. Wants me to ask. wants to give me the "news" and watch me squirm like a bug on pin.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5290 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 8:50 PM, November 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

CG,
You're facing one of those very difficult times. Don't allow youself to be baited.

I mean, really? The sister sends the email? The new cell phone number?

Come on...


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, November 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

yes, I know the bait is prime and perfect. I have resisted the bait of "NO MONEY" which always worked before. This time I cashed out the retirement (ouch!) at great cost and penalty and completely took away the last safety net... And hired a lawyer to go after money in court. But if there is no JOB?!?!?!?! What is the court going to say? Yes, he should support you and the children. Yes, he agreed to support you and the children, and in this fault state the adultery would get you a very nice spousal support payment... but if he has no income MRS.Stretch... maybe you will have to make the budget all by yourself. Hell, I can just hear him asking me for support!!

He got fired. I just know in my heart he got fired. please God let him still be living far away with OW and deliriously happy. I cannot stomach the idea that he'll be available for full time fun dad time. While I go work the $11 an hour job I got to put food on the table.

I want to throw up.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5290 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 10:03 PM, November 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Usually they look at how much he has made over the last few years to determine "support" and weather he is capable of working.

There have been many before Stretch who have tried the trick of getting fired or quitting their job right before going to court, thinking they will get out of their responsibilites. It never works.

If anything, maybe this will be a nice dose of reality to the OW. She wanted him so bad. Let her have him AND all of his bills, his problems and all of the rest of the crap that goes along with him!!


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 11:08 PM, November 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, OW actually said to me that if I loved him, I would drop everything and go to him and make sure he got to church and to SA meetings and counseling. I would be there to make sure he didn't get bored and cheat. If I loved him enough.

Obviously she loves him more than me because that is what she did. If Stretch got fired, I am sure he made it my fault somehow. So that would solidify their relationship in their need for each other and their hatred of me. I am ok with all of that. I hope she keeps him on a very short leash. She is welcome to him and all his crazy bullshit problems. In fact, I need her to keep him focused anywhere but here. I cannot have him underfoot, stirring up trouble with all that free time..... I have been as ok as I have been because there has been distance, physical distance that has given me room and space to heal and breathe.

I guess this is it. It is all me and now that it has happened, I just get to a place where I am within that budget. Move again, pare down expenses, again. I hate it for the boys. But we'll be closer for the getting through it together right?

I think I am officially panicking. Maybe time for meds. again.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5290 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
Holly-Isis
♀ Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Random thought-

I'm trying to read through the thread to learn more and know you all a bit better. There is a discussion on the start of NPD on the first page and I was thinking that if it began in childhood because a child was taught the rules don't apply to them, then maybe that's where my sister grew her N attitude.

When we talk about family roles, I was the scapegoat. I would get punished for the things my siblings did. So maybe my sister learned the rules did not apply to her then. When my parents D and I eventually chose to live w/ dad and stepmom, Sis decided at one point to live w/ us too. She broke just about every rule and when she was called on it, she lied. We happened to skip school the same day. My dad had actually seen her in town. When I asked, though there was no proof, I told the truth. She lied and while we were both punished, hers was more severe. She responded by running away from home and making her way up the East Coast back to Mom's house (where there were no rules). She was 16 or 17yo. When she got to NYC, she called crying because she was scared and expected dad to drive up and rescue her. He told her she made her choice and the best course of action was to sit close to the ticket counter and wait for her next bus to complete the trip.

Funny, at that point my skipping a couple of classes was forgotten and I don't think I was actually punished. For the first time ever, she was held to the fire and I was let off.


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

❣Your soulmate is the person who helps grow your soul into a better being rather than tearing it down❣


Posts: 10868 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Limbo
lainey59
♀ Member
Member # 27955
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How can I tell if my WH is NPD or just plain moody and selfish.

WH has always put himself first, some examples:

DS in hospital for day surgery, he knew I'd be ringing him to pick us up from the hospital but I got no answer - he was out on his motorbike and couldn't answer the phone.

Doesn't get excited about anything, birthdays, christmas, going on holiday. Come christmas morning we either had to wait for him to get up or DS and me would open presents by ourselves.

Uses people, eg will help other people out but usually when there's something in it for him eg next door neighbour used to let him park cars on her drive, he used to take her to bus station, airport etc. He wouldn't have done that for anyone else - he's far too busy.

Last winter DS was stuck in town and couldn't move due to icy pavement (has mild cerebral palsy which affect balance so ice is a nightmare). DS phoned me, I was having hair done, phoned WH said he was at garage. I assume he meant his usual one 13 miles away. I got hair finished asap, went n picked him up. When I got home WH was having a shave getting ready to go out - said he couldn't be on call 24 hours a day.

Won't argue, if I said anything to him he would be straight out the door on an errand. If I said anything when in bed he would just turn over and go to sleep leaving me to rant and rage to get a reaction.

There's much much more but how do I tell?


BW 52 STBXH 52
Married 30 years DS age 22
OW 23 year old bimbo skank
OC born August 2010
First suspected and accused Oct 08
First left Oct 09, returned Dec 09
Left again 2 Jan 10

Posts: 143 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: Yorkshire, UK
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Holly,
That's interesting about your sister....

I'm not surprised to hear that she was rebellious as a teen, or that she ran away from responsibility and punishment. I think that fits with the disorder.

How long before this did your parents divorce? Were there rules for her before the divorce? Or did your mother rules the roost and allow her to do what ever she wanted while your parents were together too?

The reason I am wondering is because from what I have learned is that it seems the "person" is spoiled and taught from an early age that they are "special". They usually are not punished for wrong-doing, either big things or small.

One thing that has always stood out to me is the history of "rescuing" by one or both parents.

This could be something as simple as writing a note to school to get them out of trouble for something, or hiring a lawyer for them to get them out of more serious trouble. Either way the lesson learned is, "I don't have to be accountable for my actions."

It's interesting how your dad told her to catch the next bus.

Lainey59,
The only way to really tell is get a diagnosis from a professional. But to actually get a NPD in for a diagnosis is next to impossible. My XNPDH was diagnosed but only because he was ORDERED by court to go.

Narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by dramatic, emotional behavior, in the same category as antisocial and borderline personality disorders.

Narcissistic personality disorder symptoms may include:

*Believing that you're better than others

*Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness

*Exaggerating your achievements or talents

*Expecting constant praise and admiration

*Believing that you're special and acting accordingly

*Failing to recognize other people's emotions and feelings

*Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans

*Taking advantage of others

*Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior

*Being jealous of others

*Believing that others are jealous of you

*Trouble keeping healthy relationships

*Setting unrealistic goals

*Being easily hurt and rejected

*Having a fragile self-esteem

*Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional

Although some features of narcissistic personality disorder may seem like having confidence or strong self-esteem, it's not the same. Narcissistic personality disorder crosses the border of healthy confidence and self-esteem into thinking so highly of yourself that you put yourself on a pedestal. In contrast, people who have healthy confidence and self-esteem don't value themselves more than they value others.

When you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may come across as conceited, boastful or pretentious. You often monopolize conversations. You may belittle or look down on people you perceive as inferior. You may have a sense of entitlement. And when you don't receive the special treatment to which you feel entitled, you may become very impatient or angry. You may insist on having "the best" of everything the best car, athletic club, medical care or social circles, for instance.

But underneath all this behavior often lies a fragile self-esteem. You have trouble handling anything that may be perceived as criticism. You may have a sense of secret shame and humiliation. And in order to make yourself feel better, you may react with rage or contempt and efforts to belittle the other person to make yourself appear better.

Hope this helps.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 7:08 PM, November 19th (Friday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
lainey59
♀ Member
Member # 27955
Default  Posted: 7:13 AM, November 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for this. I'm not sure that he is NPD, probably just very very selfish and not much feeling for others.

I remember when our DS was diagnosed with cerebral palsy at 15 months old (only mild) he just shrugged his shoulders when I told him (he hadn't been to the hospital with me). I was in pieces as I knew nothing about the condition.

DS had an minor operation when he was 6 years old, only one of us was allowed in the anaesthetic room - me - I had to pin DS down as they couldn't get the needle in. All I could think about was what if he dies on the table and the last thing I did was hold him down while he was screaming. All WH could do was go have a full breakfast in the cafe whilst the op was going on.


BW 52 STBXH 52
Married 30 years DS age 22
OW 23 year old bimbo skank
OC born August 2010
First suspected and accused Oct 08
First left Oct 09, returned Dec 09
Left again 2 Jan 10

Posts: 143 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: Yorkshire, UK
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, November 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laniney,
Maybe just a selfish jerk, but that lack of empathy is a biggie when it comes to the NPD.

If I were you, I would keep reading up on the disorder. It can be such a confusing disorder because the NPD wears such a convincing "mask". On the outside they can seem so confident, charming and self assured, but deep down they are a seething, jealous, angry insecure, immature broken person. Sometimes you only see one side and then only glimpses of the other side.

Sometimes it's as if you're living with someone with split personality. Sometimes you think maybe they have bi-polar disorder. Then other times (as is common) they have other problems: (drinking, sex addiction, drug addiction, other things that go along with poor impulse control) This combined with the rest of it leaves the spouse or family members of the NPD reeling and wondering most of the time W-T-F?

But even if you got all of these "sypmtoms" sucessfully treated, you would still end up with a shell of a someone who "looked" like a person, but still was just not quite right. An NPD is just not plugged in like the rest of us. Their wiring or something is really, really "off".


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, November 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for the info, Sadtoo. I cut and pasted it into my journal so I can find it!!

I was reading some site about NPD and there are theories that there are different types. They even said about a type that was "inverse NPD", almost like a codependent of an NPD. Reading it scared me. I know I have a lot of codependent tendencies because of my mother and her BPD (Borderline) and my IC also suggested that my mother had many NPD traits also. I don't think I'm "classic" inverse, but there were a lot of traits that I'm sure a lot of us picked up in order to survive living with NPD.

Yes, Sadtoo, WH had such a strong mask. He controlled me with pretty words. I was so used to living my life with BPD mother and first alcoholic xWH doing everything on my own and "rescuing" the crisis that my mother created, that when WH came along and told me how pretty I was, how smart and caring and good I was, I ate it up like a starving person. WH was there for me more than anyone else had ever been, but compared to "Normal" people, he really wasn't there emotionally or really committed to me.

I became and I think I still am "addicted" to his "role" of charmer and sweet talker
and illusion that he was "there" for me. I always did everything myself (including fixing things around the house) that just the feeling that someone loved me the way he said he did was enough for me to go on.

I asked for so little, and he gave it all to OW. I don't know if I ever said on this thread that WH, me and our kids were travelling back and forth overseas for his business for over 10 years. We were staying there for the school year and coming here for summer and Christmas. I found out on DDay that WH married another woman overseas (about 8-9 years ago)(where we were living) and had 3 OC's with her. It is legal there to do this. No, he didn't marry me for "papers".

I still have to deal with WH because of the kids. He's paying all the bills, etc.

The main problem, and I think you guys will understand, that I haven't sued for divorce is besides most of the assets are overseas, is his NPD.

MY GUT screams at me not to divorce him legally right now. My GUT screams at me to "play nice" and pretend it's ok, she's there, I'm here, until I get all my ducks in a row.

Emotionally, I'm having such a hard time letting go. The charmer is still there. I'm getting my "fix", but I know if I start really pulling away, I'm going to have a war on my hands that I wasn't emotionally or mentally ready to tackle.

I'm sorry that this has turned into a vent/rant. It's just that because of the NPD, I thought you guys would understand.

Thank you.


Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jan 2010
mommyblonde
♀ Member
Member # 22548
Default  Posted: 4:42 PM, November 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need some help dealing with the way my STBXNPD treats our DS. DS has started challenging STBX's authority for the first time and, just like a textbook NPD, STBX responds by acting like a big bully. He smacked DS yesterday in the back of the head (he admitted this to me via text message - dumbass) because he was "mouthing off."

I can see the writing on the wall here but I need to figure out how to best help DS when he is with me. I want him to know he can tell me anything but I know he is afraid his dad will get mad if he does. I have him in counseling but he's only had one session so far.

STBX and I also have a DD. She is currently the "chosen one" for STBX because she is very young and doesn't challenge STBX. He blatantly favors her and ignores or gets mad at DS.

Is this all normal? Thanks in advance. You guys are so great here.


"When a heart breaks no it don't breakeven" The Script

Posts: 513 | Registered: Jan 2009
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 5:19 PM, November 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Htaf
Wow. You're in a really tough situation. I can totally relate.

I think that we either were before we met our NPD or became somewhat co-dependent after we met them. They make life so incredibly miserable, you find yourself doing ANYTHING just to keep the peace and or to get them just to SHUT THE FUCK UP!! It happens so gradually that pretty soon you find you're acting a total fool and tolerating things that you would NEVER have before. I think it's all conditioning / training / abuse.

And you're probably right. If and when you do file, you're probably going to have a war on your hands. I know I did and it was pure hell. Although I will tell you that it was so WAY WORTH IT. And if I had to do it all over again to get to where I am today, I would in a NY minute.

You'll need to be emotionally and financially prepared for that. Do lots of prior planning before you start the process.

In my situation, I just got to the point where he had beaten me down so far that I just didn't care anymore and it was either fight or die. It was THAT BAD. For some reason I was just going to see that marriage out to the bitter end. I shouldn't have stayed 5 minutes, let alone 5 years. But he had me brainwashed in a sense that I would be "giving up on us" if I quit. But in reality he just wanted to push me to the brink of insanity so then he could go file himself and say, "AHA!! I HAD to divorce her. She is so mentally ill." And even go as far as to put that into his original filing stating that I was mentally ill, had abused him and was a DRUG ADDICT!!

He did this in response to me having him removed from "our" house with a protection order. At the time I did this, I stupidly thought that maybe that would "shock" him into realizing that he needed help and we could still somehow work through things.

See how f'd up your thinking can be when you're in the middle of this shit??

At the time I had my suspicions about infidelity, but nothing had been confirmed until he was out of the house and the phone calls started coming.....

OMG....

MB,
I didn't have any kids, so I'm not going to be much help.

The only thing I can tell you is to keep doing what you're doing. The IC is really good. The other thing that seems to work is to NOT bad-mouth your X to the kids. You can bet he is doing plenty of that against you. Right now, that may seem to be working in his favor but believe me, that will eventually backfire.

My sister has been divorced from her cheating XH now for 12-15 yrs and they share a daughter. My sister has NEVER said one bad word about that JACKASS and God knows how she has held her tongue all these years. That man has said all sorts of horrible things about her and she has never said anything to their daughter, even about his affair. Now that she is older, she is starting to figure it all out on her own and how her father has lied to her all these years. She has even figured out how the g-f that he lived with when she was little was really the OW...

Not good for good ole' Dad...

My point is, if my sister would have engaged in the bad-mouthing along with her XH, it would just have escallated the issues and only hurt her DD. This way she came out looking like the better person and he ended up looking like the jackass he is.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 5:28 PM, November 20th (Saturday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
Cogal
♀ Member
Member # 28314
Default  Posted: 6:58 PM, November 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MB- I feel your pain. stbxnpd is not only using the kids as tools in his messed up attempt to make me regret ever filing, but ds confessed to me that daddy gets very angry and upset at him and it scares him:(
The only way I even found this out is because he had a major fit one night when he woke up to go potty. I finanlly got him calm and asked him if anyone had done/said anything that upset/hurt him. I told him he could tell me a story about it if he wanted, he's 4 and that seemed to take the pressure off. He said a little girl had a daddy who got really grumpy and mad when she wouldn't go pee when he asked, he then said the little girl was just like him, that his daddy did that:( so he had a tantrum at 2am because he couldn't go pee because his daddy had him scared:(
I try to talk to the kids as much as possible, but they're 4 and very impressionable, it's so sad.

He is fucking crazy and has made it a mission to torture and harass me until I see the error of my ways....this includes messing with the kids minds.
I hate him with every bit of my mind and body, I really don't think he has ONE redeeming quality.


Oh, and he is now saying he lost his job AGAIN, I think he's lying and trying to get more from me in the D.


Me (bw): 30 something
exH NPD: 30 something
kids: preschool twins
d-day 4/09 (7 month EA/PA)
married 10 years
divorced and ready for 2011

It's not that I have trust issues, it's that you shouldn't trust some people!


Posts: 279 | Registered: Apr 2010
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, November 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sometimes it's as if you're living with someone with split personality. Sometimes you think maybe they have bi-polar disorder. Then other times (as is common) they have other problems: (drinking, sex addiction, drug addiction, other things that go along with poor impulse control) This combined with the rest of it leaves the spouse or family members of the NPD reeling and wondering most of the time W-T-F?

Yes! Yes!!! And then because I have flitted here and there trying to "figure him out" and "explain" the reason he is the way he is, I start to doubt MYSELF. Because really, maybe it is me. Me, just like I heard every time we would argue. Bi polar because it runs in his family, he's the right age, hyper sexuality... but read a little more and this is not a perfect fit. Sex addict, because of the online porn, the men and women, the fantasies, the sex ads, sex chats, the escalation of acting out. Yes, there is a lot to fit here but the lack of empathy, the denial that those behaviors are wrong... for him. The lying about getting help, the idea that he is different from all the others with SA. The masks are so good sometimes that it is easy to wonder if he can be that good and that kind, then how do I reconcile the rest of it.

For me, the lack of empathy seals it. Stretch in a rare moment of honesty, admitted that he had no idea what I felt after the revelation of all the cheating. His words were along the lines of "I know you are hurt, upset. I see it. I can name what you are feeling, but I have no understanding of it. I cannot imagine it or feel it myself. I can tell it is bad." Mind you, I felt blindsided. I still believed that my husband was mostly good, mostly kind, and that the lapses were normal and to be forgiven and part of the give and take of a normal healthy marriage. And to protect him, to protect the marriage I never shared or addressed fully the REALLY weird scary shit. Talk about compartmentalizing. I wanted the good times, the SAHM status so badly, I wanted to be a successful marriage so I denied the signs. And truly, he hid them very well for the most part. And when it was extreme or went on too long, I would plead, beg, cry, we'd go to counseling, and TA DA things would go back to acceptable. He'd try harder, be nicer, more considerate... for awhile. I would lower my expectations again and be so grateful that he would try and be so willing to "work on the marriage."

So, lack of empathy: big clue. I think this is what makes all the emotions a little off and inappropriate. (remember the inappropriate laughing)

For me, another one is the poor gift giving. Such a simple thing. But it shows a complete and utter lack of understanding of someone you care about OR a complete and utter lack of care. I got bad jewelry, rings that were too small, tacky not at all my taste. Clothes that were the wrong size, flowers from the grocery store after repeatedly expressing a distaste for the cost and how quickly they died. We had yard flowers that I loved to cut and bring inside, but dyed daisies? No thank you. Other really out of nowhere gifts. And he didn't care if I liked it or was excited about it. No anticipation of how I would feel. Some enjoyment for my discomfort at not liking a gift. Makes you feel so ungrateful and bitchy. But to fake a smile and appreciation didn't sit well either... year after year after year. I finally asked to not celebrate with gifts at all. It was excruciating.

selfish certainly is a big part of it. Not following the rules but expecting others to always abide by the rules. Stretch is also really smart. Not as smart as he claims, but smarter than average. It is an advantage, makes him more capable at the act and in the arguments.

mb, kids. I am so sorry and feel your pain. They are the favorite tool to hurt and control me. If the NPD acts like a bully with your child, then talk to him about it the same way you would a bully at school. Give him tactics to avoid being targeted, talk to him about it. I am struggling with this too. How to honor what they say, to keep them safe, but stay out of the middle. How to defend myself against what Stretch tells them about me, without putting them in the middle.

It is good to be able to come here and read and vent and get support and feel not alone... or crazy.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5290 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
mommyblonde
♀ Member
Member # 22548
Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, November 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sadtoo, thank you for sharing your sister's story. This is what I try to do - I never bad mouth STBX to DS no matter how much I would like to. I know he says bad stuff about me and my family.

Just the other day when he was picking up DS he called my stepdad DS' "step-grandfather" to SDad's face. WTF my kids don't differentiate between their "real" grandparents and "step" grandparents - never have and never will. I have no idea where that came from. I am sure he did it on purpose to hurt SDad. My stepdad is the most caring person on the planet. It makes me just want to throttle STBX.

Cogal, I totally get what you mean and am so sorry your NPD is acting like that with your kids. Your DS is close in age to my DS and it is awful to see these little guys in pain like that. They should not have to be scared of their daddies when they are 4/5 years old.

Do not doubt the NPD's ability to lie - I have seen mine lie about the most ridiculous, mundane things. It would not surprise me if an NPD was lying about a job loss just to continue to try and control you in some way.

Caregiver, I have scoured the internet for a couple of years now trying to figure out what mental illness my STBX has. I have thought he was bipolar, a drug addict and a sex addict. I found all kinds of porn on the computer (male and female) but all he did was deny it. One time, when I asked him about the gay chat room stuff he said he had only done that to test me to see if I was spying on him. Um, yeah...sure.

When it comes down to it and I read all of the info on this board, I figure out that he is just plain old NPD. It is a perfect fit. I also ignored a lot of warning signs in the beginning. Now that I am distanced from him I can see it all clearly.

The horrible gift-giving, the total lack of empathy, and most of all, the horrendous way he treated me post-D-Day all point right to NPD.

From D-Day on, the A was all my fault. I didn't have sex enough or in the way HE liked it, I didn't do this, didn't do that. Forget the fact that I was 9 months pregnant at the time...everything was about him and what he "didn't" get.

It is truly awful for me to remember me sitting there on D-Day, listening to him and bawling my eyes out. He had me so brainwashed that I believed all of what he said. I begged and cried. I should've just dumped his stuff on the lawn and kicked his ass out.

However, I know now that I was truly a victim of his emotional abuse and didn't know any other way to deal with things at the time. It is a hard thing to deal with but a truth that I have had to accept so that I never find myself in that situation again.


"When a heart breaks no it don't breakeven" The Script

Posts: 513 | Registered: Jan 2009
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, November 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cogal,
I'm so sorry he's treating your little one like that. It breaks my heart when they are so mean to the kids. It's hard enough on us and we have a hard enough time figuring it out...think about what it does to a child. I can't even imagine.

CG,

I start to doubt MYSELF.

I think this is true for all of us. But isn't this what "normal" people do? Especially if there is someone always telling you it IS you. An NPD will NEVER (or rarely) admit fault.

I remember being in the middle of the worst of the worst with him and tying DESPERATELY trying to figure out WTH was wrong with him and he started in on that it was me. And for me it was almost like a glorious moment. Could it be me? Could it be that easy?? Because if it's me, I can fix me!! And I ran off to IC as fast as I could go. At that time I was willing TO DO ANYTHING to try and fix this mess.

What I didn't realize was that I was falling right into his sick plan. I was "becoming" his mentally ill wife and seeing a psychiatrist.

I'll never forget when I went in there the first few times. I told them how angry I was and how I was yelling and screaming at him and even throwing things and how out of control I felt, etc. They asked me why and I told them about the things he was doing. They suggested him coming. He did. Once. That was a disacter. He screamed and yelled at them how this was "HER PROBLEM" and stormed out. That nice doctor sat right there as I cried because I was embarassed (like an idiot) I didn't have ANYTHING to be embarassed about but that's how conditioned I was.

That doctor looked up at me and said, "You are in an abusive marriage..."

Believe it or not, I was shocked.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 8:11 PM, November 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MB,
Good for you about the kids. Interesting about yours doing that with the "step" thing. My sister's X makes a big effort to point out that her new inlaws and her new husband are "steps" too. She'd like to clock him over that too. What jackass's. What is the point?? Who do they really think they are hurting by doing this? I mean really??

OMG, the bad gifts. I could give you a list as long as my arm.

There were so many red-flags in the beginning that I ignored. I should kick my own ass over some of this stuff.

One time he wanted to go skiing in Colorado. I have some friends who have a condo in Breckenridge who were gracious enough to let us use it for the week.

I told him that I wanted to get them a dinner gift certificate to thank them. He never offered to help me pay for that.

Then he wanted to drive out to Colorado to "save" money. Well, first of all it was winter and who knows what type of weather you might run inot. Plus that takes about 3 days off your trip that you'll have to be in the car. He claimed he couldn't afford it so I offered to buy the tickets.

I go to pick him up at his apartment on our way to the airport and here he is with BRAND NEW luggage and BRAND NEW ski stuff.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:47 PM, November 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MB: I'm sorry to hear about your DS. How old is he?
There is a problem with men in general with their sons when they start to challenge authority and many of the guys who came from "old school" thinking tend to use their hands. This does not make it right. Add NPD to the mix and it's even harder.

The only thing I know, is that I can usually "talk" to WH, by acting as diplomatic as possible. Suggesting that if he does x, it doesn't look good. If he does Y, then it looks like he's such a good dad.
About hitting DS, tell him you understand that DS is "getting to that age" BUT, he will get DS's respect better by dealing with it in a different way. Say you truly understand how it can try his patience...blah blah blah, but you know that WH is really a good dad and would do what is best....blah blah.

Sickening? Yes. But you are doing this for the kids.

Do not bad mouth WS to the kids. It just hurts the kids. It's like the old saying that you can put down your sibling, but if someone else does, you get upset and angry. The same applies to parents. Believe me, kids will figure them out when they get older.
The only thing I have said to my kids when they got older and they told me something I didn't like about thier father was, " Your father is a good man. He loves you very, very much. I just don't agree/like some of the things he does."

Thank you all for sharing specific examples of how WS are acting. Just reading "text book" definitions doesn't always help.

OMG the gifts. Geez. When we were dating, and WH was travelling overseas, he said what did I want? I told him to get me another of those glass perfume bottles he once got. (inexpensive, but pretty) He comes back and has a few and asks me to choose one. WTF????? Who are the others for? "Oh, for my aunts, etc" He couldn't understand why I felt upset.

When we were dating, he gave me an radio alarm clock saying, "Your alarm clock is loud and blaring. I want you to wake to nice music." That really touched me. I loved the reasons WHY more than the clock. A few years later, when we were married, when his mother was visiting, he offered to give her this clock! I said what are you doing? this is mine you gave it to me! He says, "you are not using it"
He's done this with a few other things of mine. I mean he didn't seem to get it when I said, "ok, maybe I wasn't using it and you wanted to be generous, but you should ask ME first!!" The look on his face was like he just didn't get it. He didn't understand.

Weird stuff and actions that didn't seem "right". WH's mask was so good, that I just overlooked these things. Maybe I didn't want to see it because it would burst my bubble.

I just want to thank everyone. The more you share, the more I can see, truly see. I believe I was "addicted" to a fantasy that WH portrayed soooo very well. He has taken the mask off so often now, that I've seen the beast underneath. Now, I'm trying to see him in a different light and WOW I'm seeing more and more things!!!

It is all about him. Anything good he does, is to make himself look good. Buying me things was to make "his wife" and therefore himself look good. Also, I believe he bought things for people to "buy" their loyalty and love. He would be very upset if he bought or did something for someone and then he would want them to do more and more things for him and if they would refuse for some reason or another, he would get soooo angry.

Sorry, I'm going on and on. Thank you all for listening. It is really helping me heal. It's hard to explain to people IRL who just say WHY did you put up with that? LOL, a lot of training, conditioning, and time.


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