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User Topic: Npd Thread Part 8
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 10:34 PM, November 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The look on his face was like he just didn't get it. He didn't understand.

YES!! YES! Yes!!!!!!!!
The dumb, blank stare!! Yours too?? OMG. Anyone else?? My XNPDH had this and so does my sister-in-law.

It's so creepy when it happens too. It's like you just want to shake them or something.

Again the confusion....

I knew he was smart. I mean not as smart as he thought he was, but smart. But then those times when he would have that blank stare. It would be like, is he confused? Is he dumb?

WTF is WRONG with him???

But I think they are paralyzed with their lack of emotion. They know they are suppose to feel something, but they have nothing. Maybe while we're looking at them for a reaction, any reaction...they are hoping to get something from us to mirror. Who knows. Freaks anyway.

OMG, don't ever apologize about posting too much or venting too much or anything like that. I think I am an NPD thread hog. I'm in here all the time.

People in real life just don't get it and it DOES help to write about this stuff and to talk to other people about it. It helps me alot to hopefully help others and to talk about my own situation. The holidays always bring up bad memories for me.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 1:04 AM, November 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I knew he was smart. I mean not as smart as he thought he was, but smart.

I said this, right? or did I just think it... LOL.

smart makes them harder to deal with but the over confidence in their smarts once they decide to "be" the NPD and make us pay... well, I hope that eventually plays into my favor! I am scared to be over confident.

OMG, don't ever apologize about posting too much or venting too much or anything like that. I think I am an NPD thread hog. I'm in here all the time.

thank you for saying this. I was feeling guilty for spinning out of control in here the other day. I panicked IRL and there was nowhere to go. But I think we are conditioned to feel selfish... even here. As if we can't all post at the same time! Or as though people are compelled to read and respond. But I have felt guilty, wanted to apologize. Wanted to refrain from posting again so soon... trained. It fits but it smarts to think of it.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5301 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 1:41 AM, November 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

See what I mean? Here I am again. Oink, oink. The board hog.

I knew he was smart. I mean not as smart as he thought he was, but smart.

I guess you did say that!! It's weird. It's like we're talking about the same person somestimes. [shudder icon]

When I first came here and people would be talking about this stuff, I would SWEAR it was the same guy and since mine was such a serial cheater, I thought ANYTHING was possible.

Talking about the "smart" thing. It does come back to bite them in the ass. Because they are NOT as smart as they think they are. And they usually think they are smarter than everyone else.

I remember when we would go to court for the hearings.. I was SO SCARED that the judge was going to believe him...because I thought he was so convincing. But there again, I had been "conditioned" and I hadn't considered that the judge had NOT. I literally had to get some anti-anxiety medication before I went to these hearings because I was falling apart and throwing up when I would go. And there were MANY hearings because the idiot would not settle for less than EVERY cent I had. It wasn't long before I could see that things were probably going to go my way as he was not following his attorneys instructions to keep quiet and insisted on addressing the judge, etc.

Then we had several criminal issues to deal with because of the protection order, him violating the PO and other charges being filed against him by the county attorney for various offenses against me. Again, he would refuse to take his attorney's advice and keep his mouth shut. He HAD to talk and he would talk his way right into a conviction.

By the end, I was just saying under my breath, "Oh please just talk. Tell them your side of the story. I can't wait to hear you sound like the idiot you really are."

But HE really thought he sounded SMART!!

NOT!!!


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
lainey59
♀ Member
Member # 27955
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, November 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH used to be a really heavy drinker - to the point of oblivion. He can't drink so heavily any more but always has a drink at night. He also smokes cannabis, reckons he can't sleep without it.

I always thought he had an addictive personality, maybe its more than that.

Regarding opions, no one else is allowed to have a different one to him. If I said anything to oppose him I was "putting a downer on everything".

The worst part is that my DS daren't challenge him or even ask him about the 4 month old half brother he has yet to meet because his doesn't want his dad to fall out with him. We both know what he's like when he falls out with someone, its for life and usually over the smallest things that most people would work through or forget about.


BW 52 STBXH 52
Married 30 years DS age 22
OW 23 year old bimbo skank
OC born August 2010
First suspected and accused Oct 08
First left Oct 09, returned Dec 09
Left again 2 Jan 10

Posts: 143 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: Yorkshire, UK
Cogal
♀ Member
Member # 28314
Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, November 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the part I am having the hardest time with is the reality I'm stuck with him because we have kids. I'm wondering if anyone with kids can give me insight into how/when things get better?
I always thought once he started dating it would be better, but supposedly he is seeing someone and I still get extensively harassed.


Me (bw): 30 something
exH NPD: 30 something
kids: preschool twins
d-day 4/09 (7 month EA/PA)
married 10 years
divorced and ready for 2011

It's not that I have trust issues, it's that you shouldn't trust some people!


Posts: 279 | Registered: Apr 2010
whyohwhyohwhy
♀ Member
Member # 17890
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, November 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

as far as having to deal with them when you have kids...

I don't know if it ever does get better, but at least at this point, mine pretty much does the bare minimum.

he still does some passive aggressive stuff, like being consistently late with no advance notice, and "forgetting" their medicine. but at this point, I'm beginning to wonder if he's just completely clueless.

also, I notice a lot of us here have xs that seemed to have smoked a lot of pot. I'm not talking an occasional joint or something, but massive amounts of pot. mine would never take so much as an aspirin, even when he was seriously sick, but he would continue to smoke tons of pot even when he had severe bronchitis, which would happen at least twice a year.


what did I ever do to deserve this?

Me:47 BS
Him: X, 51 PA SA NPD?
2 kids; DD14, DD8 divorced


Posts: 1030 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: east coast
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, November 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel so badly when I read about those of you dealing with NPD and younger children with divorce. Our sons are 12 and 15. Because my gut has been screaming at me to wait, I've been putting off pursuing D. WH, entitled as he is with 2 wives, wants me to accept the sitch and says he will always support me. Because I've been conditioned to deal with him from my mother, I've never really had to deal with rages from him. I don't know if he's "classic", he pretends to have empathy, but I really don't think he can.
I've been going crazy emotionally of whether or not to kick him to the curb or to put up with a lot (technically he's gone 2 months or more and stays with us a month). He pays all the bills, and as long as I'm feeding the NPD, all is well.
I was having so much trouble emotionally distancing myself, since he was always able to pull me in, but now, I'm thinking of "deciding" to put up with this crap, trying to distance myself emotionally, get rid of the codependence and getting my ducks in a row. Personally, I think WH will not abandon the DS's financially because it will make him look badly to everyone.

Am I crazy to keep with this plan? I know if I start to really stick up for myself TO HIM, I will be in for the fight of my life. I've seen how WH has been with others who have opposed him in business and family members.

Should I start to listen to my gut with this, since I'm finally starting to differentiate between that and my emotions gone wild?

It's not hard for me to "play nice" when WH is here. It's just that for me, I get caught up in the fantasy again, and then I get hurt.

It's hard to explain this to people who are not dealing with a NPD and the craziness they can incur.

In a crazy way, I'm trying to control a sitch by letting WH THINK HE's in control. KWIM?

Thanks for listening to the crazy ravings of an NPD's spouse survivor.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 7:44 PM, November 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

he still does some passive aggressive stuff, like being consistently late with no advance notice, and "forgetting" their medicine. but at this point, I'm beginning to wonder if he's just completely clueless.

This is my XH too. I don't think it's so much cluelessness, but rather that they really don't give a shit about their kids or anyone besides themselves.

Assclown was to pick the kids up this morning at 9 am. He finally called at 10:20, and said he'd be there at 11 or 11:15. He showed up at 11:25.

And he's regularly late by 10 to 15 minutes dropping them off at home.

Make sure you document these abuses of visitation time. If you have occasion to take him back to court, it could come in handy.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7633 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, November 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

htf,

I understand what you are saying. If I had known what would happen by leaving... I might have pretended. Stayed and stayed safe. This fight, the financial abandonment, the terrorizing, the threat to the kids, the fight over the kids, how they deal with it and suffer.

I don't honestly know. But if he were gone all the time... I can see the draw for waiting it out. There are so many things to consider. Is he safe? Are you protected? Can you distance yourself in order to remain disconnected? Do you want to? Will you make yourself crazy?

No one may understand it if you decide to play ball. You will need a full time support system of some sort I imagine. Good luck with your choice. Neither is great right? But I totally get trying to make the right choice FOR YOU. You YOU YOU YOU, make the selfish choice and then protect and prepare for an emergency of every kind. Not the greatest advice...

The kids linking us to them is a real challenge I think. It is the source of the fantasy where he dies. Suddenly. I help the children grieve, the social security check is more reliable than CS. The kids never really see the mess he is, they don't suffer at his selfishness over and over... Fantasy.

I hate that I ever think it, but to be able to run in any direction and NEVER have to see or hear his voice or wonder where he is. I have regretted that we have kids together. As much as I love them! I hate that I can't get away. I have felt trapped like in a bear trap. Panic and anxiety disorder anyone? *sigh*

Not the kind of conversation IRL that gets you anywhere at all.

UGH!!!!!! How is it that people like this walk this planet? I feel so Pollyanna and naive.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5301 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
HappilyUnMarried
♀ Member
Member # 21299
Default  Posted: 10:38 PM, November 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honesttoafault - no, you're not crazy. I could see the case for either side of the coin, having been M to a full-blown NPD for 16 years. And then having to deal with divorcing an NPD ex with kids. Almost as big of a nightmare (sigh).

Given the age of your sons, this is a really hard time to wage an all-out NPD battle. My son went from being a 14 year old A/B student and star athlete to a almost 18-year old who is on the brink of flunking out of high school. He has drug and alcohol problems - and has been in trouble with the law. His anger at his dad is palatable. I have taken the brunt of his anger.

I am pretty sure my ex would never have D me; that would have looked bad to his friends and family. If I could do it all over again I think I may have chosen to play your 'game' until my kids graduated.

Either way, it's going to be tough. But if you do stay, I would suggest having a 5-year plan. Work on your career. Concentrate on the kiddos. And start stashing away cash as much as you can!

I get it.

(((honesttoafault)))



True happiness comes from within, not from someone else.† Donít make the mistake of waiting on someone or something to come along and make you happy

Posts: 1291 | Registered: Oct 2008
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:22 PM, November 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you so much for your support!!! You guys really made me feel better!! It's so hard to explain to people IRL WHY I'm sticking it out a bit, especially my 2 older DS's from a previous marriage who are in their 30's.

I also post in LTA, and there and here I have found that a lot of us didn't listen to our gut. I think we get to a point that with DDay we get so emotional, we don't know what is emotions, logic or "gut". Over and over in SI ,people always advise to listen to GUT.

This time my GUT is just screaming "WAIT"!!!

My major problem with my younger DS's is that WH decided to tell them that they had 2 sisters and a brother!! Needless to say DS 12 (who was 11 at the time) was extremely confused and DS 15 (14 at the time) was upset and angry. I'm realizing now, that DS 15 is feeling the betrayal too, he makes comments like "dad is with 'them' right now" meaning the OC's.

How did I get into this mess?

Thanks!


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, November 22nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How did I get into this mess?

It is interesting to me that this question consumes almost as much energy for me as "how do I get out of this mess?"


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5301 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, November 22nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"how do I get out of this mess?"

Wow, caregiver!!! When I read that I got such an understanding smile on my face! And then I had an "aha" moment. When I start focusing on your idea "how do I get out of this mess?" instead of how did I get into it, I'll be more on the road to healing and moving forward. Thank you.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 12:15 AM, November 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had to get out because the staying was killing me. My kids have their struggles as 15 and 17 yr old boys. They have little to do with their father now and see him for who he is. I believe leaving was the best decision for everyone. They didn't 'have to grow up with the abuse any longer and I believe it was better than staying.

Mine articulated today just how much of a selfish person he is. He said that his kids are a scourge today when he and I sat down and talked about finances (Shocking as it is he actually sat and talked to me. He made noises about coming to an agreement but we will see if there really is some kind of agreeement. Otherwise I have no problem going back to the original plan and file with the courts)

My ex now somehow expects that he gets something in return for the CS he pays. He will have to pay more since oldest is going to college. He somehow imagines that when oldest is 18 he will be able to step back into son's life like he never left. No idea what is driving this. Perhaps he is realizing what he is missing or needs a new pawn to try and control since he seems to have the wifetress under control now that she is not working and at home full-time caring for him.

These people leave those around them in impossible situations because they constantly try and pull the wool out from under you. It is almost like a sick game that gets played.

I have to say that I am thankful every day to be free of his control. You just can't wrap your head around the ways they control you until you are out.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
hopefulmom
♀ Member
Member # 23556
Default  Posted: 4:51 AM, November 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lied2---I hear you!

Our exs seem to be cut from the same mold.

Mine pays no CS, no help with college tuition or any expenses. His only answer to me when I have asked is that his lawyer said he was entitled to spousal support and he didn't go for that? And what about his kids???

When his own daughter asked if he was going to assist with college tuition bills, his reply was he didn't even know how he was going to pay for his own expenses. He continued on to say she should take out loans and if she allowed him to be part of her life, went out to dinner with him, spent time with him, etc he would see if he could help with repayment of those loans when they came due. Yeah right? He will have more money in 2 years than he does now?

None of my kids wants anything to do with him. They see him for his true self. Everyone else is still "wooed" by him especially now he is in seminary.


me-44
WH-45
married 22 years
Dday 10/08
Divorced!

Posts: 257 | Registered: Apr 2009
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, November 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had to get out because the staying was killing me. My kids have their struggles as 15 and 17 yr old boys. They have little to do with their father now and see him for who he is. I believe leaving was the best decision for everyone. They didn't 'have to grow up with the abuse any longer and I believe it was better than staying.

Same here. My oldest (unbeknown to me) start cutting himself when the physical abuse started in 2006. He stopped on his own a couple of months after his father had left the house and wrote about it in his journal, which was how I found out about it. Both sons went from having mediocre grades to pretty darned good. They no longer have to walk on eggshells, or receive thinly veiled insults, or wait for the next burst of irrationality. I will say that divorcing an NPD is not easy, and you have to be resolved. If you haven't reached that point, then it's probably not a good idea to exercise that option.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, November 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You guys are godsends! My eyes are opening wider and wider. It's like WH put blinders on me or something. WH was always complaining about how bad everyone else was, how greedy they were, non appreciative of what he did for them. I'm talking about his immediate family of brother, sisters, nieces, and nephews. Of course, his reasoning to me sounded very logical at the time. But now I see glaring red flags that he explained away (just like the A) WH always was saying about people, "I'll teach them a lesson." I never liked this, and told him so, and he stopped saying it to me, but I guess he was still thinking and planning it.

Oh boy!!


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, November 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had to get out to...or get him out.

He was killing me a little bit every day. I was slowly losing myself. I was losing touch of who I was, what was real and who he was. He had my mind so warped that I couldn't even think for myself any longer. Everything was so distorted and it seemed that I could only see things in the way that HE wanted me to see them.

And as it turned out, most if not all my fears were not founded.

Yes, he was dangerous and scary and a total freak. But once I found my spine again and quit cowering to him and TREATED him like the criminal he was, things began to turn around FAST. I had to STOP giving him the reaction he expected and I had to STOP feeding the NPD. Every time I talked to him or tried to reason with him, he won. Once I threw him out and went COMPLETE NC and dealt with him ONLY through the lawyers, all bets were off. His game was OVER. He was exposed and these professionals saw right through him. When he would call me or drive by my house or violate my protection order in any other way, I called the police. He got tired of going to jail and having the police showing up and his work and at the OW's house.

Once I started to do those things, something amazing started to happen. I realized that in reality he was really a coward.

Once you find yourself again and stand up to these NPD's (in a careful well planned out way) there is nothing more freeing or rewarding.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, November 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I really want to talk about this. I am not sure if here is the best place, but I am reluctant to post too much NPD stuff in the "regular" forums. I feel just a bit like we are branded with a negative view for having this level of crazy or claiming it. Whatever. This is my safe place sort of buried here in ICR.

House, MD. The tv show. Last night was about a lot of infidelity related stuff. EA vs. PA. Lying. Online infidelity support group. If you watch it you know. If you don't watch there is no way for me to capture all of the nuances. I don't know if it is because of the infidelity topics, but I was thinking about my life, my situation. And it occurs to me that House is NPD. He is brilliant, he lies. He "cares" about Wilson, but it is more like he owns Wilson. He doesn't care about Wilson's happiness, he cares about having Wilson for himself. House is manipulative, the ends justify the means, but even his medical profession is not about helping people, it is about winning the game, figuring out the puzzle.

So what right? I am not sure this is a revelation for anybody but me. Why do I care? Because I like House. The character. I like the show. There is something deeply appealing about his intelligence, his humor. And the way he appears "needy." So is this brilliant acting and writing? Or is there something deeply flawed within me that responds to this type of character? because if I think it through, being married to House, or even caring about him would lead to right here.

Hopefully someone else watches the show and will stumble along to contribute... I am deeply bothered by this today. How could I like this character?


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5301 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, November 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've watched the show a few times. And I know what you're talking about. He gave me the creeps. But I watched it a long time ago and maybe it was too soon after Dumbass, so maybe I didn't give it a fair chance.

I totally "get" being drawn to the "NPD" types. They are EXTREMELY appealing. They are usually bright, smarter than most (but not as smart as they think they are. ) They can be witty, charming, and engaging. My brother (who is a raging NPD) is incredibly fun to be around as long as you keep your distance and know your place.

Look at Bill Clinton. I don't know if he's NPD or not. People have speculated that he is. I was watching Larry King last night and he had George and Barbara Bush on. Back in the day, Barbara was pretty outspoken that she didn't care much about BC. But since they have all been out of office, it seems that they are very good friends. She now refers to him as "her boy, Bill." And she went on to say, "it's hard NOT to like BC."

I'm sure that's true. But I guess you have to know your limits with people. This is true weather they are NPD or not. But especially NPD's.

You can admire or maybe even be casual friends with an NPD, but you probably wouldn't want to be married to one. Like we all know. It was maybe fun in the beginning, but not so fun later.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 3:00 PM, November 23rd (Tuesday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
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