I think that the closest I want to be to someone with NPD is arms length because of how they can so totally suck people in and then spit them out. I have met a few others over the years and I usually have a gut reaction to them.
I am trying to process the meeting I had with my ex the other day. I have to say I want to believe that he is sincere in wanting to work things out without a mediator. I was so pleased with myself for being able to step past so much of his insanity during our conversation. I have to see how it all works out and hopefully he will come through the other side and not cause me to have to hit him over the head legally. I so don't trust what he was trying to convince me of (that he was turning over a new leaf with his children). It is almost as crazymaking as just taking it all before a judge to set it all in motion.
He kept flipping back and forth between sides it was so freaky.
The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.
A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.
I like the medical drama too. And I will admit to a crush on Wilson. Is that because he is the co-dependent and I self identify? I am just bamboozled at the sudden realization that a favorite character who I knew was deeply flawed is flawed in a familiar way. And now that I have drawn the connection between House and Stretch I can see the potential in him for the same types of hurtful destructive behaviors inflicted on the "loved" ones. It bothers me........... obviously. The central character so deeply flawed. House's flaws are excused, allowed and tolerated because he is valuable. And he is still portrayed as endearing. It is scary because IRL the NPD is likable and charming too... and that makes me nervous for court.
I also wonder at my ability to spot a NPD in the future.
lied2, I am nervous for you. Pretending to be agreeable and nice. sincere and NPD... is it possible? just be on guard. Can you record your meetings and listen to them later for analysis? Don't make any hasty moves...
Hanging tough for the first holiday "alone" with me and the kids... and have to say I am loving it!! It is much less stressful. I am glad. I was waiting for the sadness and the regret that the family wasn't together. No hallmark commercial moments. But the kids are fine. Maybe because I am not sad. And because the holiday expectation is an adult expectation. So far so good!
My normal path to dealing with him is to slam him legally as hard as I can and ask questions later. This time I threatened that and he was eager to not go there because it costs him when I do that. (have I trained him.... who knows. I think he fears me on some level now )
The huge mask slip was when he said that the kids are a scourge to him. He said it 2 times in our talk. I think because the first time I ignored him.
I so look forward to the day I don't have to interact with him at all because the kids are grown.
I know that the house figure is familiar to me as well. I never really compared my ex to the house character but there are some similarities in their pathetic behaviour.
Try to keep it all in perspective.
Yes, the NPD is likable and charming. But in a court of law, the judge doesn't care about who he/she likes. He's/she's looking at FACT. Plus, I think alot of times the judge looks suspicously at someone who is trying too hard to get the judge to "like" them. It almost makes it seem as if they are trying to distract from the facts.
Keep your eye on the prize. FREEDOM.
For me, I was ready to walk away from everything I owned just to get away from him. But at the very end I decided to fight him. He had convinced me that I would lose too, but I didn't.
My point is I was prepared to lose everything just to be rid of him.
[This message edited by sadtoo at 12:20 AM, November 24th (Wednesday)]
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001 (I didn't know)
Remarried 2008 (Happy!)
These people can drive you to a place like that. I just wish I had seen it before I got there and could have all those years back.
I filled out a victim impact statement today. I didn't know there was such a thing. Got a call from the attorney that the lawsuit for temporary support and custody orders is ready. I feel out of control in a whole new way. Who knows where it goes from here.
My point is I was prepared to lose everything just to be rid of him.
That's the point you have to reach when you divorce an NPD, BUT you also have to fight like hell. If you roll over, you will lose count of the many ways the NPD will screw you over. If you try to be nice, the NPD will screw you over.
lied2: Good luck. That's all I can say. He must really, really want something badly.
That's the point you have to reach when you divorce an NPD, BUT you also have to fight like hell.
YES! Yes! Yes!!
You must be prepared to lose everything, BUT also ready to FIGHT.
Don't go into a divorce with an NPD thinking that you can be "fair" and expect him to "see" that and "appreciate" it or even reciprocate. He won't.
You go into a divorce fight with an NPD fighting as if it's to the death. You go for EVERYTHING you are legally entitled to.
Who knows where it goes from here.
Veritas and Sadtoo are spot on with their comments.
I have had a huge reminder these past few weeks that if the NPD doesn't get a reaction from me, then he'll go after our oldest son. It makes me ill. And what scares me is that I almost bought his latest destructive tirade because I (supposedly we) have been worried about our 19 year old son.
He can take the legitimate worries that I have over my hurting son who is at risk for doing something dangerous or stupid and twist it horribly.
The details are complicated, but I'll just say that I had a real lesson today thanks to an email sent by X that was so venomous, so destructive, so heartless and so opportunistic that it mad me want to throw up. (I believe that he's actually taking things at his house, hiding them and blaming ds for stealing them.....this was on a recent post with an NPDWH doing this to BS, when I read those posts it reminded me of the time I was very sick with pneumonia and wanted to drive myself to the hospital - he wouldn't, but he did let the air out of my tires so that I couldn't. I nearly died.)
We should love, support and give time and attention to our children. At the same time, if they are hurting or making mistakes, we can still step in and set restrictions and expectations at the same time. Those two ideas are not at odds with each other. But they are with an NPD.....because they cannot love like normal parents and they have no boundaries!!!!
(((hugs))) I am so sorry you have had a tough time and a recent scare. They never go away do they? I have a thread in D/S about the latest game with Stretch and my boys. I swear I am grateful for every day he doesn't have influence and contact.
Lots of good advice here. And good support. I love the familiar names and know that when I see you guys in other threads I pay attention. I am collecting wisdom.
I've begun to recognize the tribe too.
Love you all.
yes, exactly. There is something about knowing someone else has walked this road, cried these tears, felt this fear. I ache for you (all) and cherish you at the same exact time. And "love" seems the best way to name it.
so "right back at ya"
Anyway, just wondered if anyone else had this weird thing happen?
I started thinking about it, and I think he's right. I believe many of the behaviors of WH are not only NPD, (IC thinks he also displays BPD traits, too), but also ADD. The impulsiveness.....
I don't think any of these people have just the one kind of personality disorder. There is a spectrum of other behaviors as well. They say that everyone has some narcissum to a degree, even healthy for self preservation. I would even venture to say that all of us display certain kind of traits to a degree...to be within the "bell curve of normalcy". It's just those that go beyond those "normal/average" degrees that give us problems.
ADD? Yep, I think WH has that to a degree too. Add that to me a codependent ACOA with low self esteem...what a mix! No wonder he used to call me an angel. No one else would put up with this shit (except OW, who I think is in it for the money)
It's just another time that they "feel" nothing. And they just go back to what/who they are comfortable with and that is THEMSELVES.
They "see" other people enjoying the season and the how it is more about giving than recieving, and the NPD....well, just doesn't get it. It's all about him and what's everyone going to do FOR HIM. So he sits there. I think that's why we see the bad gifts, and the odd behavior during the holidays and birthdays, etc. They are completely disconnected. They take days off basically because that's what other people do, not because they have any real plan. They're just copying other people's behavior. Then they sit around waiting for something wonderful to happen to THEM. And when it doesn't they seem to do their best to ruin it for everyone else.
That's my experience anyway.
I think the ADD is just another symptom of the NPD. It's part of the poor impulse control. They lose interest in things easily because they are so focused on themselves. They cannot become interested in other people or other people's interest. (unless it's someone they completely admire or worship)
And the low self esteem? That's part of NPD too. That's the real person. The broken little boy. The NPD mask is the all powerful, charming, engaging, irresistable man that he shows the world. The broken immature, pathetic POS is the real person.
Hope the holidays are going well and you all had a GREAT Thanksgiving. I had my new H's family over (28 people) for prime rib on Wed and my family (only 18) for turkey and all the fixin's on Thursday. Everything went FABULOUS!! I didn't recover until Sunday, but oh well!! A good time was had by all.
You rawk, did I ever tell you that?
We all know, when jj "pronounces a thing" it is true right?
All together now!
sad: OMG, you are something else! what confidence you have and how blessed (and tired) you must feel. thanks for being here for us and for sharing a success story. Heroes for hope.
and jj, I have a few things to get you to pronounce...
but I'll go along with the rawking for now. maybe even around the Christmas tree...
I have come a L-O-N-G way. Once upon a time, I was a very independent and confident young woman. Then I met "him" and everything went to hell in a hand basket. I don't know exactly why, but I just kept trying. It was like I was beating my head up against a brick wall and refused to stop. I just couldn't accept a failed marriage or something.
But I survived it, and even thrived.
It's so weird with my new husband. He's so...normal. He loves the holidays like I do. He HELPS me get ready. He ASKS me if he needs to take a coupld days off work to help me. Then he ACTUALLY DOES HELP ME. He's EXCITED to help put up the Christmas decorations. He ASKS if he can go to the store for me. He NEVER complains. And I'm not kidding, I stayed in bed most of Friday...just watching TV and reading. He brought me coffee and even brought breakfast from Villiage Inn. My X would have bitched his head off. Not new H. He was full of compliments about how wonderful the dinners were and how I had out-done myself...blah, blah with the compliments. Sometimes I have to pinch myself.
I've always said, he's like a breath of fresh air and a slap in the face all at the same time. Kind of like, WOW! So nice, but at the same time, WTF was I thinking before and why did I put up with THAT so long??
I really, really think when you are IN deep with the NPD you don't know how BAD it really is. Things get bad in such a gradual way that you don't even realize it until you've been out for quite some time.
I'm so glad I can help others. I'm glad I can be provide hope for those of you still struggling. It was REALLY BAD for me. And my situation seemed hopeless. If you haven't read my profile story, do so. I had one who not only was really nasty in the beginning, but he made the divorce especially horrible and then wouldn't go away for years after that.
But the bottom line is I made it out to FREEDOM and HAPPINESS. If I can do it, you all can too!!
[This message edited by sadtoo at 10:00 PM, November 29th (Monday)]