I have been reading this NPD thread for a couple of weeks now and wanted to tell my story regarding xwh's behavior.
We separated Dec.2009 sfter DD-day when wh confessed to EA/pa with a "girl" 30 yrs younger than him who was his maid while he was working in the Philippines for 8 months. Our 2 children and I stayed in the US while the kids went to school and I worked/ took care of the house, etc.
The first signs that xwh had some issues was when he originally took a job out of state and expected me to be excited and move with no reservation, granted, he didn't discuss this job move with me before he took it and couldn't understand why I was opposed to it. What ever happened to a marriage being a partnership???
After I said, NO, he accused me of many things such as not wanting to move to the other state because his mother lived there (that's another whole issue regarding boundaries, or lack of with his family!), that I wouldn't "cut the apron strings" from my parents (I am the youngest of 3 and my parents are not well. Also, wh's job took him away many days/nights so I needed the support from them while raising children).
XWH had to turn down the job in the other state and blamed me for making him stay in a job and be miserable.
Fast forward a few months, xwh accepts a job with a new company in the Philippines and expects us to pack up and move there for 2+ years. I was awarew of this job offer, but I insisted that he go over there and check things out and we would talk about it when he came home for his 1st 2 week vaction three months later. He agreed to that. 3 months later, he arrives home and NO pictures, NO school info, NO housing info. He said he was too busy with the new company trying to get it off the ground and that he was concerned that he may not have a job if or when he returned there.
He did return 2 weeks later and the company was under new management so he had to start all over again getting his department up and running. One of the perks of the job was that he was assigned a local girl as a maid and he had a driver to get him around. His first maid was (in his words), "dumb as a box of rocks", so he interviewed and picked a new maid who was 30 yrs younger than him. I have to admit tht I wasn't too thrilled that he had a female in his apt so much, catering to his needs, and my gut feeling came true sometime during the time he was there for 4 months. He claims it "just happened", but I don't buy his sh*t! Especially when he came home for a 2 week vacation, was fired, and confessed to me 4 months later that he didn't love me anymore and wanted a divorce because he loved her and wanted her to come live in the US and marry him. WTF!?
I was blamed for EVERYTHING! (see below) and SHE was nice to him and took care of him. WTF!? She was his maid, idiot!
Long story short, I filed for divorce because MC/my IC and I came to the conclusion that he was toxic and would most likely not change, ever!
Some things he admitted in MC that sound very NPD-
He was jealous of the kids because they took my time,
He felt like a paycheck because the kids and I didn't include him daily.
I wasn't "there" for him.
I wasn't capable of giving him what he needs.
I alienated him from his family. (remember those boundary issues?)
He would get very defensive if I wanted to talk about us and issues I thought we need to discuss. I even dreaded, many times, wanting to bring it up because I didn't know how he would twist my words around and try to blame me!
He liked to talk about his "glory days" playing HS football, baseball and how good he was. Years later, I found out that he wasn't nearly as good as I was led to believe.
I had a couple of female medical issues over the years- his response was "its not like you knew it wasn't going to happen" as I am in tears.
Blah, blah, blah... too many to type here but you get the gist.
I have continued to attend IC and feel so much healing going on. In our last session, IC brought up the thought of N again and we talked briefly about NPD. I looked up on the internet later and read about the symptoms and he hit the mark on every one!
Mine eyes have seen the light!! I think I can now give a name to what his behavior is! I printed out the info and gave to him a few days ago. He said he would read it, but then said he saw some of that in me. Of course he did! Blameshifting AGAIN!
I told him that, yes, we all have a bit of N in us, but the difference between him and me is that I care enough to look at myself and seek help to change any negative behavior I have before I hurt others! He really couldn't argue with that one!
Thanks everyone for listening
Contained in a subsequent nap was the worst dream I've ever had involving him, and there have been many. I was re-trapped with him. There was no violence, just the overwhelming sense of captivity and hopelessness. It was so real, and I was so happy to be awakened by WBF.
For those of you still involved with this evil, I pray you can escape and find peace like I did. Experience has shown me, you can't be friends with them, you can't trust them, and no matter what you fear they are up to, what they will do is something you never thought to worry about. They stalk and harass you without end, and no one believes you unless they have been through it themselves. A couple years ago, he showed up at WalMart, probably following us, and put on a show that made the clerk call her manager and have him escorted from the building. Visibly upset,WBF told me he now believed the few stories I had told him.
Yes, I still have problems with WBF, and his behavior has caused me a lot of pain, and yes I'm still angry about it. But I am alive, spiritually, emotionally and physically, when I came so close to losing it all.
I'm not sure how I feel right now. When you're with an NPD, you can hear the flames of hell crackling, and I had a glimpse of that again.
I guess I'm just glad to be alive, and I pray all of you will be, too.
Well, I'm sad that you lied to me, too.
My stbxh seems to completely ignore us. It is as if we have never existed. He will call the kids once in awhile but only talk for a minute or two then he is off to his own life.
It is not unusual for him to go a week without talking to them and a month or more without seeing them. He wants nothing to do with me and will not talk to me. Not that I care as I have been the one to stop the contact and once I did, I no longer exist to him.
My daughter, who is so mad at him for making us move across country and give up her life for him and his job, then leaves us to go live with ow...well she hasn't talked to him in months. He doesn't even try anymore. They haven't talked since Christmas. His attitude is that if she is mad at him, that is her problem. He never takes emotional responsibility for anything. Or any kind of responsibility for his actions and blames everyone else instead.
I guess all NPD people are different but not even sure if this is a common trait as a lot seem to have rages. My stbx does not at all. He is more prone to dismiss everyone who has a problem with him.
They stalk and harass you without end, and no one believes you unless they have been through it themselves. A couple years ago, he showed up at WalMart, probably following us, and put on a show that made the clerk call her manager and have him escorted from the building. Visibly upset,WBF told me he now believed the few stories I had told him.
My new husband has seen a lot of my XNPDH's behavior too. And he has always said, "If I hadn't seen this with my own eyes and lived through it with you, I would have a hard time believing it."
It is also common for them to just drop you and their children as if they / you never existed.
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001 (I didn't know)
Remarried 2008 (Happy!)
1. Before M, when he's sick I'm there 24 hrs a day, when I am, he's at the bar.
2. It's all about sex...I've never been able to have it enough and when I don't I'm 'withholding it just because I can' he can't stand that I have the control over whether we have sex or not.
3. In college he got a girl prego with no intention of marrying her, gave $$ for abortion, she wouldn't do it and couldn't handle the baby so my in-laws cared for her while he did the college thing.... til she was 13 and he and I had a kid and were moving 30 mins away, then I invited her to move in with us full time. And then I took on the responsibility.
4. Went thru fertility for our kid #1, only to have him curse me out at 3am when she woke him, I nursed so he didn't have to do anything.
5. I went thru nasty suicidal depression early in M, he often left me crying cause he couldn't handle it
6. went thru fertility again when he agreed to try for 1 more kiddo: got twins, he went into an early mid-life crisis mode, lost 30 lbs, became MORE vain and had an A.
7. Very vain... hair transplanted, uses my make up to cover blemishes (in sales, it's VERY important)
8. Didn't care to see my StepD's college until I badgered him enough and my little one wanted to go for a visit (she's been in college for a year now)
9. Enjoys a good laugh at my expense, in front of friends, often relating to my inability to satisfy him with enough sex.
10. after twins, I nursed them too, got yelled at some more at 3am and he spent a few months sleeping in the man cave so they didn't disturb him
11. The A happened last Feb, bookending Val Day, while I planned a surprise trip to Vegas for a few months later. I went to Vegas with him, even tho I knew of the A, and he had the balls to complain about my attitude and not as much sex as he would like. He actually started fights about it.
12. Said not a word of comfort in January when going to a far away meeting and MOw would be there as I underwent PTSD therapy.
13. Texted, called complaining that kids were cranky while I was at a funeral for a close family member for a day and a half. 'when was the last time I called her anyway?' yep 'her' is my deceased great aunt.
Sure he cooks, helps clean, takes care of the outside of the house, helps with kids sometimes, but really?? Most recently I posted this in R, I'd love some feedback.
I'm 13 mos out, just did 3 1/2 mos of hard 180 and detachment mostly because my FWH narcissistic behavior ruled our R. He hasn't been there for me, feeling like I'm trying to R and forgive all on my own. He's just waiting for me to get over it.
No more A, but no NC, transparency not good enough, (MOW still co-worker), 6 mos of lies about who she was. As it has always been in our M, he is his #1 priority. The gym, his vanity, his time in the man cave...and the man has even admitted he doesn't know what emotional support is. To top it off he had been complaining and fighting with me lately about the fact that I went those 3 1/2 mos without touching him - no sex.
I told him last month I was done waiting for him to step up to the plate and thought D was our best option. He worked on me for 2 weeks to convince me to give it another try. I gave in a bit, agreed to try a little longer and had sex with him. (Although I still consulted a lawyer to understand how it will go if I file for D.)
Then we went about 10 days without again and he was freaking out on me for not wanting to do it again. Mind you, I hadn't 'denied' him, we have 3 small kids, full times jobs and you know the rest.... but he felt like I withheld it just because I could. NOT TRUE, but it's hard to have an emotional connection with someone you don't really trust anymore, haven't forgiven, and someone you feel is so selfish and vain it's a complete turn-off. So if we are ever able to R, it's gonna take a phenomenal amount of work.
What I wonder most is how the hell can he start fights with me about this? He has no right even 13 mos out from D Day. Where is the trust building? The remorse? My hope for R has been pretty well crushed by his day to day selfish behavior, I can't accept it anymore, not after the A and somethings gotta give. I'm just tired of being the person to do the giving all the time.
I gave in again yesterday after he stopped fighting and just hugged me and said that he just wants to be loved by his wife, to be with me intimately. The chat was all nice and mushy and I told him I need that, I need to see that he feels something and truly wants this to work. But we've been through this cycle before and it won't be long before he does something completely selfish and pisses me off and turns me off and then he'll freak about no sex again..and so on...
Can the narcissistic behavior be curbed? Can I ever be important enough to him for him to change? I don't see any possibility of it. If things don't change I can't be happy with him. Do I just give it more time?? I'm quite sure I'll get us back in MC (our previous MC left the practice and we have yet to schedule with her recommended replacement).
I think he still loves me but the even more important question is, can he love me and the kids more than he loves himself?
I appreciate any advice. Thx for reading...toughgirl
[This message edited by toughgirl8 at 3:23 PM, April 12th (Tuesday)]
It is also common for them to just drop you and their children as if they / you never existed
Isn't this common in borderline personalities too?
In fact, deleting these toxic Aholes from our lives and finally arriving at 'Indifferenceville' is the goal.
What amount of counseling, cajoling, or comforting can put Remorse in a person? A big part of the struggle to detach involves seeing just that: there is no Remorse. We bargain with ourselves for a time, thinking that the show of regret - and what a show it is! - is a sign of growth, or awareness, possibly even empathy...but it's just acting, pushing familiar buttons to buy time, or mushy-talk for penis pleasure.
Remorse and empathy are not there. Finally, you find out: there is no "there" there.
Walking black holes.
Whatever you want to call these zebraduck fukkers - the thing that you need to do is get away. NO CONTACT if possible - extremely limited if there are kids, because they'll "use" them too - without batting an eyelash.
As for being made fun of toughgirl,
9. Enjoys a good laugh at my expense, in front of friends, often relating to my inability to satisfy him with enough sex.
I know that after 5 yrs of therapy with my ex it never really changed him.
Mine finally 'deleted' me and the kids for the most part. It is a blessing for sure. Still have the occasion episodes where I have to chase him in regards to support. Can't wait for that to be over so I can have Nothing to do with him. Just 5 more yrs. Woohoo
The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.
A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.
The more I read, the more I know he is one. Not the harshest form, but enough. He has no idea what emo support is. Denies existence of my StepD when possible cause he feels having her at a young age reflects badly on him (coworkers have never known she exists). I asked last night why he loves me and his answer was "because we used to have fun, because you're the mother of my children, because you're my wife". I realize this is all the reason he has been able to give me. I was told in MC that his love for me is conditional (as in me meeting his needs). There's no depth to the love from him, and therfore, no depth to our intimacy. Sex is empty for me, has been for a long time. But as long as he gets it, he's happy and the nicest, most thoughtful guy to me and the kids.
I won't use empty sex to get the behavior we deserve from him. Whatever happened to thoughtfulness out of love for someone? Not because you've gotten your way or because you will get your way. It's so dishonest and ingenuine. Never what I ever wanted for myself or my kids. Def not what we need.
[This message edited by toughgirl8 at 9:11 AM, April 14th (Thursday)]
in the 13-point bulleted post above "say" something else.
After all that, the better question is; "Why do I love him?"
Too much NPD contact tonight. Assclown had the nerve to bring the Skank to dd's school Open House. They followed dd and I around like a couple of trolls. Fuck them both.
As we were getting ready to part ways, I quietly reminded the Assclown that he owes me a check for reimbursements. He says, "you know it's going to be short". I asked why. Well, he is once again refusing to pay half of dd's soccer fees! I have paid them for the past 3 seasons. Mother fucker.
I told him in a voice loud enough for Skank to hear, "Fine. If you don't want her to play soccer, then she won't. I won't pay again next season."
I wanted to punch him in the head. Asshole. Piece of shit, pathetic excuse for a father.
I hate how any dealings with him ruin me for the rest of the day. I hate that he still has that power.
It does serve to remind me of why I am NC with him and why I do NOT talk to him in person.
That conversation will motivate me to get my paperwork in order to take him back to court for a C/S modification though. If he is going to continue to play games and not help out with any of the kids' extra curriculars, then he darn well should start paying what the state formula calls for.
[This message edited by woundedby2 at 1:49 AM, April 22nd (Friday)]
Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson
Ugh. Yes, no contact really is the only way to stay healthy. zebraduck fuckers.
What an ass.
I did chuckle though at your vent that ended with "darn well" though.
but it's just acting, pushing familiar buttons to buy time, or mushy-talk for penis pleasure.
Well put jjct!!! My problem for soooo long throughout our M and even since Dday, I WANTED so much to believe him, that I did.
I was addicted to that mushy talk because there was nothing else!
Walking black holes.
I love this!! This is them!!
I was told in MC that his love for me is conditional (as in me meeting his needs). There's no depth to the love from him, and therfore, no depth to our intimacy.
Listen to the MC. I totally agree that with a NPD that the "love" is conditional. As long as we are in their precious "circle" all is well with the world, but if you don't follow the program, forget it.
Wounded: I'm sorry you had to deal with your x and the skank. It just goes to show you how much of a NPD he is. Does not care one iota for anyone's feelings but his.
You are all stars.
This is so true. And when we were no longer "meeting their needs", we became completely disposable.
Thanks for the song, jj.
But now I know that love can leave a scar.
[This message edited by woundedby2 at 2:44 PM, April 23rd (Saturday)]
w2, next time he softpedals his abandonment with; "I'm a little short" please remind him you weren't talking about his dick... Loud enough..
Pretty pretty please, don't you ever ever feel
Like you're less than, less than perfect
I know the comment about FWH love being "conditional" sounds like it came from MC, but it actually came from him during a session with our previous MC. He hasn't been diagnosed as NPD, but he very closely fits the bill. I was thinking about starting with a new MC to talk about just this (our last one left the practice) but I'm not sure I want to.
I don't foresee R, not because of the A, but because of who he is.
I start to meet him halfway and meet his needs (quoted as being "be nice to me and have more sex" and that's all) and I could set a clock by the sex part, if I haven't had sex again within about 4 days, he starts to complain, and get mean, and then (as the cycle goes) I shut down and shut him out which pisses him off more. But where is his 'halfway'??? I'm still waiting for him to show he's trying to meet my needs.
And the ass has been in an early midlife crisis that continues to get worse. I was told on Sat "we should be having sex on a Sat night, if you'd rather go to bed at 8, I'll start going out".
Mind you, I've been chasing around a 6 yr old and 2 yr old twins all day, I do work full time, and I tend to fall asleep in bed while watching TV with the 6 yr old (our bonding time after the little ones are asleep) but I get in 'trouble' for not being able to stay awake to meet his needs.
That has been our problem all along.. I refuse to be a doormat and he can't stand it. I'm starting to realize that what he wants, I can't provide. I won't.
I picture a sniffling, pouting 3 year-old holding on to their pee pee.
They really have not grown up, and I bet if you think about it, you can pinpoint the age your WS was 'arrested'.
I have come to think that women are blessed with a certain knowing that men don't possess. It's as if the pain of childbirth contains a bonus - that is, you somehow intimately understand unconditional love better than we do.
(Echoing why we're all a little narcissistic, making it a bit more difficult to put our finger on toxicity)
My love was conditional. Because she didn't abide by the conditions - the love as it was, ended.
The only unconditional love I've experienced is for my children.
I think unconditional love is a God-thing too, I'm discovering that, but if you shriek at me when I reasonably lay out the basic requirements for R, and treat me like shoe shit, I'm just not gonna love you that way any more...
Meh. Just think about it.
If you're approaching the awareness that R can't happen, soon - time dealing with a pee pee holder will diminish. That's what I wish.