this pic makes me smile, and feel warm and fuzzy and (sniff) a little teary in a perfectly good way. Ya'll look so happy and perfectly wonderful. I am glad to count you as friends.
these are not nearly as wonderful as your smiles...
I got the permanent order, six months with a requirement to go back to probate family court to look at visitation issues (and I will be able to address child support there too).
It was really hard being in there with him standing near me. But I did it.
Geez, I look like I'm half-lit. Oh, wait. I was.
rainagain, I'm glad you've gotten the permanent order done. Being in court sucks and being near them sucks even more. Hugs to you!
Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson
Been at it 31 years. It has always been there but not to this degree...or at least not this noticable. Stress causes NPD to escalate. When they are cornered and proven beyond escape, that they are wrong or bad.....they get plum rediculous when they try to reverse the exposure. They can not be wrong....but they are busted red handed....so they go to extremes to become the victims instead of the villain. They go to extremes to prove to everyone that we are the bad guys here. Such extremes that it is unfathomable.....so their behavior is now very apparent. Before....they were able to subtly disguise it and mask it so we did not see. We always knew they seemed selfish....wrote it off as a character flaw.
Now.....we find out that we never were truly loved by them. That shit hurts. But even harder to accept is the fact .that we NEVER WILL BE LOVED BY THEM. So now what do we do????
Me???? As much as I loved her.....I can not be married and committed to someone who does not love me back. Divorce is the only alternative. They can not be cured or treated.
Status: S & D'ing
At yr 25 I began to get a clue. (when he confessed to cheating I had never suspected him of)
It took me 3 more years to finally ferret out enough facts to convince my heart what my mind seemed to grasp instantly.
Don't feel bad. I am a firm believer that we know what we are supposed to know when you are supposed to know it. There are no mistakes on this journey called Life.
@ wx2: Seeing as how I don't get down here as often as I should...It was my pleasure, wx2, to have met you! (and jjct & everyone who went to the Austin g2g!)
At first I just thought I was married to a selfish guy but this whole affair, making us move when we did not want to and then leaving his family for the ow really threw me. Hard to understand how someone can be so unemotional and not care about someone they have known for so long and then show such great love for someone they have known for a year.
Does anyone ever think their spouse shows signs of something more than NPD? My stbxh seems so over the top right now and I am not sure if he rates up there as a sociopath or as my 16 yr old daughter asked--whether he has Aspergers.
I mean, he literally made us move across country when none of us wanted to go and his kids were crying hysterically and then once we sold our house and moved 3000 miles away, he left. We are in a state we do not want to be and he is with ow and hardly ever sees his kids. He doesn't respond when I had questioned him and acts indifferent to everything that pertains to his kids. He has no emotions whatsoever. No empathy for his kids situation. I seriously think he could have Aspergers...sounds very similar to NPD. What makes me think it is not though and just NPD is he was not like that before to this degree. I mean he has never really had emotions...good or bad, but he could mask emotions...
Do I even make sense??
BTW--love the picture. Sounds like it was a fun get-together!
DD12 always says that her father doesn't feed them when he has them. she says he just gives them pretzels and yogurt all weekend, and maybe some hawaiian punch....
I can believe this as he is incredibly lazy. also, she is quite upset that he sometimes make them pancakes when he isn't wearing a shirt, as she says "all his chest and armpit hair get into the food. he's just gross."
so, about three weeks ago, I made some hamburgers for them, and also made a few extras for them to take along when then went with their dad. put it all in a bag with some frozen veggies and told them to just nuke it when they got there if they got hungry.
kids come back starving on sunday night, blaze through fridge in my house. I ask 12 year old why they didn't just eat the hamburgers....
she says "because they're under dad's carseat." I ask how that happened, and she says she put them there. (this is a pretty new car...about 6 mos old.) she totally did this on purpose. I asked her what would happen if they started to smell, and she said "I'll be fine. I'll just bring my inhaler."
so, now it's about three weeks later. they just got back from his house...little one(6) says "dad's car doesn't smell very good." older one says he keeps asking her why she opens the window all the time.
he has horrendous sinus problems that he has always refused to see a doctor for, so it's possible he just hasn't noticed, although apparently he is starting to open the windows too.
so, he has probably had rotting hamburger and a box of spinach under his new car seat for about 3 weeks in 85-90 degree weather, placed there by my little angel.....
I'm just hoping the kids can't catch a disease from this.......
[This message edited by whyohwhyohwhy at 7:00 PM, June 19th (Sunday)]
Him: X, 51 PA SA NPD?
2 kids; DD14, DD8 divorced
Yes, it can escalate with stress and being backed into a corner, as when you learn to stand up to them and out them, can create a monster.
I've had students with Asperger's, and my gut feeling (b/c I'm not a specialist) is no, it's not narcissistic. The lack of interest in the social aspects of life and/or the inability to understand that part of life might appear similiar to N at times but it's driven by very different reasons.'
My dad thinks the XWH has a borderline personality disorder though instead of NPD. I don't know what to think, other than both disorders are not things that can be fixed. Many things are similar when you look them up, what is really striking is how the XWH could take on the personality characteristics of those he was with. I was the one who brought out the best in him until he was done with me.
whyohwhy, I like your DD!
My question is he says that because he works he deserves me time and because he works and makes the most money in the house any money coming in he should get.
He has never truly shown remorse for his ONS, only once in a while he will say that I am the only one, there is no one else, yet he has a wondering eye, he tries to be extra nice and is always asking me if I need anything and yet sneaks on the computer ad watches porn.
Can someone help me understand why MC would say that, what are the traits and signs that this is what he has?
to me it means they are selfish, no true feelings, self-centered, self-righteous, no empathy, no remorse, they feel entitled to whatever they want. It also means to me they hide really well who they are. My FWH has made himself be the victum of his A, it's her fault and my fault.
They can change but only if they acknowledge they have a problem and want to change. From what I've been told, most don't.
I'm reading Codependent No More and also attending al-anon. This is to help me. My H said he approved of my going to al-anon like if he didn't I would stop going. Fat chance of that. It's good for me and many others in the same situation as we are in
It said not to view them as monsters but as people with a disability, they cannot help what they have and cannot change who they are.
So what do we do? If they cannot be faithful and change then what do we do, stay and accept or leave and go through the agony of realizing that we never meant anything to them?
I have read about people that stay with their NPD spouse but at the cost of their own happiness. I have stayed this long hoping against hope that he wants to change and he will. But he really hasn't done much.
It's hard for those of us who love and love truly to understand those who can't love at all.
So many articles by doctors on this say that they are unable to be faithful or tell the truth. They have no emotional attachment so they never feel like they have done anything wrong, this leaves the person that loves them feeling lost and hurt, to have never been loved at all is something I never thought was possible.
Are there different levels of this? Is there any part of them that is true or is it all fake?
There are some who have the full diagnosis: a personality disorder.
Then there are some who exhibit many, many traits of NPD AND other personality disorders such as BPD (borderline).
Many are functioning, holding jobs, etc. A lot, like my WH are extremely intelligent and seem to be able to mimic emotions because they have found some consequences for being total assholes OR they have found that if they mimic emotions, they can get what they want.
From observing WH with my newfound knowledge, I've noticed what a manipulative person he is. He really doesn't care about other's feelings and often intimidates people to get what he wants. He found with me that intimidation never worked, but his sweet talk and charm did, so he always used that. That masked his true nature for 23 years!
So, there is a spectrum and other traits of other disorders can overlap.
With my new found knowledge I see that he is more receptive to me when I start yelling at him then when I stay calm, he is constantly asking me if I am ok or if anything new came up today, almost like he is waiting for another secret to be revealed.
I would like to know how many stay with thier spouse after finding this out knowing that they can never be faithful, never tell the truth and have neve actually loved anyone but themselves.
I am still shocked to find this out about someone I have just spent ten years with and do not understand much about it except there are different levels and types and the one thing I completely understand is that they are not capable of loving anyone, which now makes sense because of his behavior over the last ten years and how he has acted during the death of his father and how he acted when he told me about his ONS.
can someone please give me some insight on what would be the smart choice in all this confusion
mine used to get a twisted self righteous look after he had reduced me to tears. it was almost like a sick smile/grimace, and it was consistently preddictable.
there comes a point when you see them without the mask and it's almost terrifying. I was horrified and disgusted by some of my x's behaviors, and they begin to display things like this more and more once they have realized that you are no longer a source of affirmation to them, kind of like when you know you've put in your two weeks notice and you don't even go to work anymore because you don't even care if they fire you.
once you've realized how evil they truly are, you simply can't stay with them. you will do anything to get away from them. the self awareness that comes from realizing that you have been sharing your life with someone like this can be freeing and paralyzing at the same time.
the problem is that being with them is such a total mind fuck that you completely lose your internal bearings and it takes a while to restore your "self" after you have been their victim.
once you're away from them, you thank god every day you found the strength to extricate yourself, no matter how much it cost. and divorcing a narcissist is very expensive, but worth every cent.
there is an old movie called "Face in the Crowd" which gives and excellent portrait of what personal interactions with a narcissist are all about.
[This message edited by whyohwhyohwhy at 1:23 PM, June 22nd (Wednesday)]
So basiclly you never tell them that is what is wrong, if they dcide to get help the diagnosis should come from a professional.
Maybe I am wrong here but I think it doesn't matter WHO tells them, they will not believe it...which is why they cannot get help. You have to acknowledge you have a problem before you can change and with the NPD, they do not have the problem--everyone else does.
My stbxh and I went to 3 different MC because he kept saying none of them knew what they were talking about. It did not matter if they had a doctorate or not--he knew more than they did.
The NPD feels they are superior to everyone and do not listen to what professionals have to say unless it is of the same opinion as they themselves have.
Hopeless? I guess you can try and work it out but for me--I feel I deserve better and would rather be alone than with someone who does not respect me or who will never be capable of loving me anywhere near how much he loves himself.
[This message edited by trixie2010 at 1:28 PM, June 22nd (Wednesday)]
He continues to lie to me about small things and has this way of calling me sweetheart and babe to calm me down.
should you ever confront them about thier lies when they have no idea they are being watched by a computer program.
Or do you just gather eveidence and go through the detatchment process and then just disappear. He does get very angry when I bring up his ONS and says we will never get past it if I do not forget about it.
I have given myself to August to make a decision and that is only 10 months since dday, I just do not know if that is too soon or when you live with someone that has NPD does it really matter.