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User Topic: Npd Thread Part 8
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Default  Posted: 4:59 PM, August 28th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Default  Posted: 12:14 AM, August 29th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is the first time for me to post in this thread..
I took it upon myself to come to this thread after reading several posts in the divorce/separated forum.

I believe my STBXH has or tendencies toward NPD.

I can definitely relate to the comments made about NPD and the behavior along with it..

I have done very little research on NPD, so any help that anyone can shed would be very useful.

One of the things that I am struggling with at this time is that my STBXH refuses to look at his situation truthfully. As I speak he has procrastinated the divorce process and tried to control everything up until the court date for temp CS and Custody. He finally acquired an attorney the day before the hearing and tried to file a continuance. This did not happen and so therefore I got what I wanted in
respect to cs and temp full custody of our child.

So now he is somehow refusing to look at the financial issues. We are and he is in a world of financial trouble. Thankfully most all of the debt is in his name, however the house is not. I have moved out and found other housing. I cannot afford to stay in the house we were living in and so I moved out after filing for D. He insists that he will be staying and purchasing the property. However he is 3 months behind on the house payment and we own some farm ground and he is 3 months behind on the payments for this also. I cannot continue to let him live there without paying for the property and I cannot continue to pay for him to live there. The situation has gotten ridiculous and now I am forced to have him removed from the property. He blatantly lied to me when I asked him if he had been making the payments and if he wanted to purchase the property. He told me he had paid the payments(which is crap since the bank is calling me now). He also told me that he was getting financing to purchase the house and buy me out. Well he isn't even paying his utilities either so how is going to finance the purchase of the home we lived in. See he only wants it because it is a beautiful piece of property on 137 acres and has a pond and an in-ground pool. The property makes him look good and feel good about himself.

Is this procrastination part of NPD, refusing to see the reality of his situation is driving me crazy.

I had taken our child and another one to a miniature golf course today and he drove by honking.... WHY? Can I expect stalking behavior from a person with this disorder? It was very weird that he just happened to drive by.

I have a fear that he will try to brainwash our child in someway... his lies are toxic and he has begun to make promises that I believe he will not be able to keep. This he has already done with me and our marriage and his 3A's. I was living a lie and didn't truly know it until more and more things weren't adding up.

If anyone as any words of advice at this early part of the divorce game I am all ears!

I already know that I cannot trust anything that comes out of his mouth. Just wondering how much worse it may become and what other tough decisions I may be in for.

I forgot to mention he is and alcoholic....

[This message edited by manipulated at 12:19 AM, August 29th (Sunday)]

Posts: 52 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Nebraska
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Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, August 29th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome here...'sorta'.
Dancing on their heads with jiggly balls

EVERYTHING is used, as long as it is to control you, affect you emotionally, and keep you in their toxic orbit somehow.

Baby, you're THAT GOOD!

Counseling is a MUST for the children.
The NPD threads

contain more info and links than you can find anywhere.

You have to bookmark this song too, memorize it and sing it back to us:

Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
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Default  Posted: 7:29 PM, August 29th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome, manipulated. Let's see what you're looking at here:

STBXH refuses to look at his situation truthfully.

Lying -- even to himself. check!

refusing to look at the financial issues. I am forced to have him removed from the property.

Immaturity, manipulation, drama. check!

blatantly lied to me when I asked him if he had been making the payments

Ah, yes, more lying. check!

The property makes him look good and feel good about himself.

Need for admiration. check!

stalking behavior

Obsessive behaviors/stalking. check!

fear that he will try to brainwash our child

Manipulation of children. check!

Most importantly:

I believe my STBXH has or tendencies toward NPD.

You believe that he is broken. biggest check!

I figure that anyone who makes there way to this thread and asks for help is dealing with some sort of crazy. These are not the garden-variety cheaters here.

An actual diagnosis of NPD is tough to come by -- mostly because they refuse to go to counseling. They don't feel anything is wrong with them, and they cannot look inside themselves at all.

If you feel that he has NPD tendencies, then that's enough for us!

We have seen it all. Please do not hesitate to ask about any odd behaviors that you are seeing.

All of the things you describe are typical. Including the stalking. Yes. Many of us have experienced this. sigh.

I would guess that alcoholism as a co-morbidity would be common. Alcohol offers them an escape from their realities and would allow them to hide from their true inner-brokenness.

Divorcing the NPD is a real nightmare. You need a very skilled attorney. A real ball-breaker. Seriously.

Read up on NPD here and out on the net. Get your ducks in a row in preparation for D. It will get messy. Be prepared for that.

Hugs to you and your child.

Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson

Posts: 7635 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
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Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, August 30th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First a big welcome to all the new people who have found there way to our thread.

ScribblingMum - leaving someone like this when you are dependent can be very difficult. It may take some time for you to get the resources you need in place. I delayed for years before I left and finally I got to the place where I had to leave. I am thankful I was forced to go because had we stayed married I shutter to think of the damage that my kids would have suffered in that time. You are a strong lady and you will make it. I just know it.

caregiver9000 - Your NPD sounds like a real piece of work. I am glad that you have sole custody. I am in a similar situation and it has been a real help to be able to shut my ex down when I needed to and be able to protect my kids from him at times. I do think some of the crazy the kids see does inpact behaviour. I have teen boys and I have to say that my oldest has some real concerning behaviours with entitlement and the like at times. Some of it is just the age and trying to find their place in the world. Set appropriate boundaries and if you can get them IC and some for yourself if you can. Hopefully in time things will get better when they are able to have peace and a stable home life.

healthyself - That OW is really something else. I suspect that she has a rough road ahead for her. She will never replace you as mom regardless of what your little one calls her. (((((hugs))))) to you and your little one.

whyohwhyohwhy - make certain you document him not taking proper care of the kids. It will be a valuable piece of information down the road. It sounds like he will likely not bother to make time for the children as time goes on and that can be a real blessing to you and the kids.
rainagain - I so understand the exhaustion. I live there too much of the time. Make sure you take some time for you each day if you can. Try and carve out even 5 minutes for yourself in a day to do something good for you even if it is just to read a book or go and sit outside and relax away from everything.
As for the NPD refusing to pay for things for his kids, mine does the same things. Fortunately for me the laws where we live require that both parents support their kids through post-secondary unless the parents both agree otherwise. My ex has already tried to play that card and got firmly shot down by the judge. It is so difficult to see a child's father intentionally try and isolate the children and sabotage them. About the only benefit in it is that they will be able to clearly see who their father is and can adjust to that reality as they grow. They may as well learn the skills they need now while they have you for a support because down the road they may need them.

mommyblonde - is it normal that if good things start happening to the "nons," the NPD starts acting out in order to try and ruin those good things?
Totally normal. My ex would do everything he could to undermine anything good that happened. I have come to expect it. I have to say that in my situation we have pretty much NC and it is such a blessing because he is not around to mess things up.
stopthemadness ((((((huge hugs))))))) I think we all feel lost after having been in a relationship with someone like this for years. It sucks the life right out of you. Then they just move on to someone new. Don't take it personally. Others may have seen through him years ago but they also didn't live the reality. It is now when you find out who your real friends are.

sharonons - any tips on saying no to visitation schedule request for npd?
If I didn't want him to see the kids I usually made other plans, very important plans that could not be changed. Depending on the NPD the kids may become pawns in the whole process to the point where sometime without orders the kids get taken and you have to fight to get them back. If you think that could happen get orders in place ASAP. Once you have orders you have something to fall back on. I would also be inclined to say create a schedule and then follow it. Consistency for the children is really important when they have to go through a trama like a family breakdown. Sometimes it is possible for that kind of schedule to be used later when you do get formal orders.

lovemyfamily75 - Is it typical for a NPD spouse to get angry and avoidant when granted WHAT THEY WANTED?
Very typical. They are never happy and I swear many of them crave the conflict more than anything. They want attention more than anything so if they can't get good attention then bad will do. Much of their actions make sense only to them so you can never really understand then and it hurts the brain to even try.
One thing I do when asking anything or having information to discuss with my ex if I give him a time limit to respond in and then let him know what will be happen if he fails to respond. That way if he objects then he has a certain amount of time to speak up otherwise I go ahead and do what I want. Later he will have no way to really say "well I didn't agree to that" or whatever. Than his refusal to respond is his agreement and he will not really have a leg to stand on later.
manipulated - Welcome. I am glad that you have been given custody. That is a very good start. Document all that you can about his behaviours. Often the final divorce will have a similar custody arrangement since the courts like to keep things the same for children. Sadly you may have to legally force him to deal with the financial situation. It may require your lawyer to file something to get the house up for sale before you lose it.

The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.

A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.

Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
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Default  Posted: 10:07 PM, August 31st (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The post that manipulated made really hit a nerve with me.

Oh, the procrastination! My NPD seems to think that I run his own personal storage unit where he can just abandon all of his clothes, books, and all other personal items and I will keep them safe for him for all eternity.

I recently sold my house and need to move. However, I am overwhelmed by all of the stuff that is here - 50% of which is not mine. STBXNPD has a large house - plenty of room for his things.

I have asked him repeatedly to tell me when he wants to come get his things. I told him that if he helps me pay for the movers I can have the moving van bring stuff to his house on the same day they move my things. No response - its as if he is in denial that this is really going to happen. Meanwhile, the closing date gets closer and closer.

I don't want to have to deliver this stuff to him - I think I am going to have to tell him that I will have a charity come pick up his stuff if he doesn't come get it by a certain date. Of course, I will have to come across as the bitch because he refuses to pull his own weight. Absolutely ridiculous.

"When a heart breaks no it don't breakeven" The Script

Posts: 513 | Registered: Jan 2009
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Default  Posted: 12:56 AM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you ever feel selfish? I find myself feeling this way. Selfish to involve anyone in my mad, crazy life (thanks to npd). Selfish that I just want to pretend I never met him. Selfish I am willing pay my lawyer a million dollars to just make this madness called a divorce go the fuck away. Selfish that I just want a life, a normal, no crazy involved life.

I have been riding the crazy train, npd sucked me back in saying he was willing to deal, go 50/50, be amicable. God am I stupid. All it meant is increasing his demands daily, getting upset when I would not comply and as usual blaming me for being difficult and petty.
I am done, I just want my life back. Can someone give me hope that does actually happen at some point, because I'm starting to lose hope.

Me (bw): 30 something
exH NPD: 30 something
kids: preschool twins
d-day 4/09 (7 month EA/PA)
married 10 years
divorced and ready for 2011

It's not that I have trust issues, it's that you shouldn't trust some people!

Posts: 279 | Registered: Apr 2010
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Default  Posted: 10:43 PM, September 2nd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cogal it does get better. I am 5 yrs away from the divorce and I can say that my life is soooooo much better. It took alot of hard work to find myself again. Being a single mom has some real challenges but it is far better than what I was living.

Getting to the place where you have as little contact as possible is really important.

The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.

A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.

Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
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Default  Posted: 3:45 AM, September 4th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wanted to echo what lied2 said: it does get better. And no contact (or as little as possible) is remarkably healing. The craziness is absent, and in place is a world where most people are not manipulative, lying, or drama kings/queens.

More to the point, when the NPD / BPD spouse is absent and the abuse ends, I think we find ourselves "waking up" from some sort of fog, and noticing that there has been a certain amount of crazy making going on, and (damn) NPD/BPD seems to be spewing a lot of it.

There is a sweet place of clam, and sanity on the other side. I promise. Sometimes I think we are so deep in the middle of ABnormal, we do not recognize it, until we are outside of the situation.

In time... all in good time.

Me: BS
Married 24 years
incredible kids
D day: 2006 ... he left to live with OW.
Divorced: 2009
WS + OW: Married 2011

Posts: 340 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: US
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Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, September 5th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think on this thread, more than others, selfishness - in a tending to your own healing way - is a requirement,
as well as NO CONTACT. Put another way,
Healing requires no contact with crazy.

It aint selfish when it's self-preservation...and yes, I was guilted and manipulated on this exact point, like I had no right to be any kind of self, or self in a safe place.
Abusers use this blending of identities - really, it's subsuming yours into theirs - to continue abusing.

The peace and stillness I have now is just what I need, in fact, I desire it.

I'm printing free BE HEALTHY SELFISH NOW coupons for everyone.

Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
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Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, September 5th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes to feeling selfish. I am ready (not able) to spend millions to make this go away. I do worry about draining all the goodwill from my friends. I do worry that at some point they are going to stop going "OMG< that is unbelievable" to actually not believing me any more.

I hate the accusations. I have been called evil, manipulative, selfish, stupid, responsible for ruining the children, our marriage, and several choice names as well. I cause HIM stress! I am none of those things. Well, I might cause him stress because thank God, I am smarter than he is. I document everything. I know what is good for me and for the kids and I will fight for it. I think my L is capable of fighting this fight but I will start over if she's not. My biggest advantage, though is how stupid he is. His ego and his FOG have him living so far removed from reality that he will sink his own ship. He is his own worst enemy. So all of this is comforting only so far. My biggest fear is that if he ever realizes all of that, he will be VERY dangerous. Revenge, break from reality crazy dangerous. But I don't have any real reason to fear that beyond my "gut" and my fear that what I see is the tip of an ugly iceberg.

There is great comfort here on this thread. And as I start to recognize the names that frequent here, I pay close attention to your posts in the rest of SI.

Piece of work indeed. Tiny bit of humor. Mine claims to be attending church now. For the last few weeks. We regularly attended church as a family before so this shouldn't strike me as unusual or funny. But I keep imagining him walking in and the whole church collapsing on the foundation. A deep rumbling voice, Satan rising from the floor, women and children running away screaming. Too many movies I guess. But how dare he look so normal on the outside?

Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5310 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
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Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, September 5th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you can't go NC, minimize contact to the Nth extent possible.

One of the tricks I really like, I think of it as "sadtoo's trick", is to listen to them really carefully. With all their false accusations, they are only telling you what they really are!

The first stage for me was schooling myself to silence - no reaction, no engagement.
Looking blank and stupid, like you don't "get it", or you're "thinking" about what they're saying helps.
(it helps when looking stupid isn't that hard for me lol!)

When I got good at that, the next challenge, seriously, was NOT to laugh out loud at how predictably idiotic everything she said actually was. It's empty. There's no "there" there.

The next stage was giving just little, subtle, leading remarks. You get to hear what they're planning then, if you lead them *just right*

Sadtoo's stories about this are enlightening. I still love reading about her skillz with this.

I think evil is inherently, by nature limited. Ignorant.
Evil's concern is only for itself, so naturally its blinders are self-imposed.
There is no concern for "other", no "looking around", no openness, BLINDED indeed by self self self. Blech.

Jesus made THE most scathing pronouncements while on this earth toward the pharisees, the hypocrites.
They went to church regularly too, IIRC.

Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
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Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, September 5th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

caregiver: Mine actually blames me for his mental illness. I made him sick in our marriage with my questions and my suspicions. Well buddy your a chronic cheater?!!! WTF. I had to turn into a super slueth to find your on line activities and tricks.

Yet I still end up believing i caused all of this.Thats the magic of NPD huh? We think we are crazy and to blame for all of it. I have blamed myself for the last 5 years. that i was not good evnough for him.

Yet I still love and I miss him. I miss having him to talk to. I shutter at the thought he is happy with OW. That perhaps is the crazy-ist thing of all huh?

I want peace in my life. But I miss him. It is nice to have a computer in the house and not feel like i have to monitor it all the time. But thats the only advantage i see right now.

i keep asking myself what do i miss exactly. Truth is i only come up with companionship,sex and cuddling. I did everything else on my own. Cooking, housekeep, working, taking care of kids, shopping, repairs around the house, oil changes for his car... all of it.yet im so sad i feel like dying. i just dont get it.

Posts: 568 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: NY
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Default  Posted: 6:47 PM, September 5th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need to post this question here. Because garden variety answers may encourage me to be flexible. And maybe you guys will too.

After two days of not communicating about visitation (I have a post in D/S) he finally sets a pick up and drop off for today and tomorrow. Tonight it is at 8pm so they can go to bed at 8:30 or 9:00. Their bedtime. He agreed to feed them dinner before bringing them home.

At 7:10 he has the nine year old call to tell me they are at the restaurant. I say eat quickly. I'll see you at 8pm. It's a Mexican place and is fast so it shouldn't really be a problem. Then the six year old gets on the phone and begs for more time. I said, cheerfully, see you in a little than an hour! You have plenty of time. Have fun. POS hangs up on me.

Now, I am pissed that he would have the boys hit me up for more time. As the rule enforcer I catch enough "bad guy" vibes while he waltzes in and out doing all the fun stuff. I know this is another power play. Again, the rules don't apply to him. They never have and they never will.

I want to send an email addressing this so it is documented for court purposes. I want to make sure I come across as reasonable. Help?

And what do I do if he doesn't bring them home on time? How late is WTF late? What do I do about tomorrow when the drop off time is really important as it is a school night? One more time, familiar refrain, I hate this.

Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5310 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
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Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, September 5th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Caregiver: what you are describing is a real pain. I think you will have to document that xH is CONSISTANTLY bringing them home late. They will spin it any way they can, like what's the problem if I keep them out a little longer on a weekend and they are having fun? I'm sorry you are going through this.

Sharon: you are describing exactly how I feel.

I do miss WH when he is not here. We always got along well, BECAUSE I "acted" correctly, but now any thing I try to do differently, oh boy.

We are not in R, although cake eater thinks we are just fine.

He wants to just go back to "normal".

<sigh> I am better with NC. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells with him. Can't stand it.

Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
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Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, September 5th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honesttoafault. Love the name. At some point honesty becomes the only currency that is important to me. Thank you for the response. I have been keeping meticulous records and it is a pattern. It feels so disrespectful. And it is exactly like you describe. What's the big deal? I want to indulge them and make them happy and all you want to do is make things so difficult...

I cannot wait to get this hammered out in court and have the financial protection and the visitation schedule set.

Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5310 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
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Default  Posted: 10:26 PM, September 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mine claims to be attending church now

Mine started attending church with the wifetress and it was the church we married at. I always wondered how the people who say them that knew us accepted the wifetress. Mine once told me that God had forgiven him so I needed to get with the program and accept him and the wifetress and stop making life so hard for him. (too bad it was his action that get him in trouble not me)

As for the coming home late there is really little you can do to force him to comply. Document so that your lawyer may be able to handle it. The kids may find that coming home late making their night and next day difficult for them and they may put pressure on him. My friend's daughter started doing that with her father at one point as she got a little older. The kids know the rules that have been set and in all likelyhood will come to resent him for disrespecting the rules.

The one thing I have have learned is that often if I make a big stink about something he will do it more and if I sidestep things like him being late then it finally loses its appeal because it doesn't get the response he wants.

The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.

A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.

Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
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Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, September 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He wants to know why I did not respond to this email. This was his response to mine asking him if he loved me and missed me why canít we reconcile?

See below

Because your anxiety disorder and my bpd play off of one and other to make us both very sick. I know and believe you love me as I do you. But the jelousy and control were too much. The deceit on both our parts makes trust near impossible for either of us. The pain we have caused each other is going to take time to heal. When you finally told me how you were ignoring and deceiving me on my one wish to not have son around your lying mother, I had enough.

He continues to blame me for everything. he is re-writing our marital history. How do i respond to this? Do i argue with him? NPD wont belive it anyways. Thoughts? How to respond?

Posts: 568 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: NY
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Default  Posted: 11:31 PM, September 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In that email he is simply projecting his issues onto you.

I don't really see anything in the email to respond to. He asked no questions and there is nothing financial or about your son so do NC.

your anxiety disorder and my bpd play off of one and other to make us both very sick

A PD will give even the strongest person an anxiety disorder. I would bet money living with him made you sick with no hope of recovery.

The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.

A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.

Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
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Default  Posted: 6:23 AM, September 10th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Actually my anxiety is situational if that counts. Ive been told that at least by therapists. I hate meds so often i go off them. I handle life fine until stbx triggers something. This has been our pattern.

He will have an on line profile for sex sites that i will find. His behavior has made me suspicious like sexting on his cell and me obsessively trying to see who he is calling and researching the numbers of countless women.

His BPD he refers to is bipolar. He was just diagnosed with that as well as schizoaffective disorder. He makes the excuse that we make each other sick. I think he makes me sick by his behavior and i obsess about him seeing other woman and cheating.

So yes, i would then start having fears he would leave me, i would question and verify my doubts, we would argue, he would lie and conceal and the cycle kept going for the last 5 years. I would forgive him or stay for fear that i didnt want to lose him. My one great love.

I would go on meds which he convinced me i needed because i was jealous and crazy. Then i'd go off because i felt better. no probs....until the next flirting session, next computer sneaking behavior, next lie....

Posts: 568 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: NY
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