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User Topic: Npd Thread Part 8
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 6:56 PM, August 11th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That is what we are all here for....to help eachother. Sharing the load is so much easier than trying to do this by ourselves. I know many of us that have been through this have struggled with accetpance of NPD. It was the hardest part of the whole detaching thing. If we can help just one person shorten that part of the process, our pain is eased as we see something good come from it. That is how I feel anyway.

Sharing what we learn helps shorten the learning curve for those just discovering the world of NPD. I hope eeryone will keep sharing their knowledge. In the big picture NPD research is still in it's infancy and the professionals still haven't figured out a fool proof way of diagnosing it correctly......And it is places like this that share information that allows us to see patterns that would never be seen by a professional. Keep posting everyone....it helps.


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
Faith2011
♀ Member
Member # 30946
Default  Posted: 10:15 PM, August 11th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know it's really hard to look back and see how they went from perfect to a little distant to small digs that cut at our esteem to full blow abuse. It takes years so it's unnoticed, except for that alone feeling you talk about. Each little dig hurts because we see that perfect person from the beginning as the one that said it. We think we can fix what's wrong and get back to that perfect time. We can't see that what's wrong isn't us, it's them. Once we realize it's them, the timeline of events becomes really clear and we wonder how we could have been so blind.

I think we could all have written this post. But lets not beat ourselves up. They were charming and manipulative. They told us exactly what we wanted to hear in the beginning.

Re: Playing games with the NPD. Before I knew what NPD was and while I was struggling to survive post A and before he moved out, I STUDIED my XWH to use whatever I could to take control of the situation.

When I asked him to send me a timeline of the A, I made out he would be a better person for being 'honest'. He sent me the timeline. It was the biggest crock of shit. He mixed lies with half truths. But it was enough to use as evidence and I have that evidence to use if needed.

But when talking to him on the phone after he sent it I played with him. I said very sincerely "thank you so much for telling me the truth". I literally heard him gulp nervously then he quickly changed the subject.

That's a 'tell'.

What a POS.

To those still having to live with their NPD I really feel for you. I just want to say there will be a day when you wake up and decide not to spend another minute of your precious life focussing on a POS. You don't realise how much energy you use on your NPD spouse.

When my XNPDWH left, at first I was so overwhelmed. I couldn't work out where and what to do with all this 'freed up energy'. I didn't realise how much I had spent on focussing on his needs. Trying to keep him happy, trying to anticipate his hit and run rages, trying to keep my self esteem intact, trying to keep his idiotic grandiose get rich quick schemes under control ...

Now I have all this energy to focus on me! I'm creating a joyful life. The possibilities are endless because I no longer have that depressive abusive non feeling person in my life dragging me down.

Don't worry too much about the 'how's' when it comes to thinking of leaving them. Just make your mind up. Once you have truly made your decision I believe The Universe will provide the answers.

Spend some of your precious energy 'feeling' what it would be like to have them out of your life. Start to have a sense of the freedom and I really do mean FREEDOM and peacefulness you will feel.


BS me
XNPDWH him
DDay Jan 2011

"Live the best life possible."


Posts: 356 | Registered: Jan 2011
rainagain
♀ Member
Member # 14917
Default  Posted: 10:31 PM, August 11th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think someone said a few pages back, don't poke the tiger. (Frank?) Not at all meant as a 2x4 since everyone's situation is different, but it can be miserable at best and dangerous at worst to play games with them. Energy could be better spent on a new life if possible.

Anyone considering leaving an NPD should carefully think about how to accomplish that and plan their exit. A narcissist can become threatening and out of control when they feel they've lost control over you.

I divorced my X almost 3 years ago, have 3 children 2 of which live with him some of the time and I've had to get a restraining order against him. I am now trying to figure out if we have to go to court again, for the 6th time, since the divorce.

If I could run away from the tiger and totally shake him off our trail, I would. Nevermind poke him.


Now, faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you cannot see. Heb 11:1
I done been through the pain and the sorrow the struggle is nothing but love. Maino
Me: Divorced BS 49
DS22, DD19, DS17

Posts: 1276 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Massachusetts
Faith2011
♀ Member
Member # 30946
Default  Posted: 10:47 PM, August 11th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A narcissist can become threatening and out of control when they feel they've lost control over you.

Rainagain yes absolutely. My XWH threatened me all the time once it was clear he had to move out. It was a nightmare. He would say things like "You want me to hit you?" and "We can do this the hard way or the easy way" in a menacing tone. I was on high alert at all times.

I survived by being 'nice' and making sure I spent as little time in his presence as I could. If this meant going to bed at 7pm I'd go to bed.

All the while getting my ducks in a row .. getting him off the lease, getting his name off the utility bills. Once I did that he was no longer legally allowed to stay in the house. He had to move out.

Never poke the tiger, unless you are prepared and/or safe to do so.


BS me
XNPDWH him
DDay Jan 2011

"Live the best life possible."


Posts: 356 | Registered: Jan 2011
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 11:38 PM, August 11th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That was actually me that said don't poke the tiger. What she was actually talking about is the non confrontational fun. A way of letting them mind fuck themselves in a way that they never see a threat. I found it kinda humerous.

But you you are right. Poking the tiger is dangerous and even moreso if you have not studied them and NPD quite deeply.

I never got the chance to since once I did my research ond conducted the tests and determined it was undeniable.....I was done. But if I had to sit in misery while the ducks were lining up.....yeh I would have loved to have some not so inocent fun of the non threatening variey. Not something to trigger them but just the stuff to make the worms turn inward....


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
rainagain
♀ Member
Member # 14917
Default  Posted: 12:01 AM, August 12th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I get what you're saying, but guess I'm just pointing out that with some of these people there is no innocent fun of the variety being described, any bit of feeling uncomfortable on their part was enough to make the rest of us family have hell to pay. Instead, when I had to help myself survive while lining up ducks, I did two things: I fantasized about a life of freedom and I employed my manipulative powers by ensuring that I was managing situations to make things smooth so we were ok. There wasn't a lot left over to have fun with.

[This message edited by rainagain at 12:03 AM, August 12th (Friday)]


Now, faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you cannot see. Heb 11:1
I done been through the pain and the sorrow the struggle is nothing but love. Maino
Me: Divorced BS 49
DS22, DD19, DS17

Posts: 1276 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Massachusetts
wanttobeloved
♀ Member
Member # 30986
Default  Posted: 6:03 AM, August 12th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been reading a lot about NPD and it says that they want to be with someone that they feel is equal to them, that they are serial cheaters and addicted to porn and gambling.

Part of that is true, except he does not care at all how I look, only how he looks, I tried a game the other day and mentioned how much I hate a pair of shorts he has been wearing and now that is all he wears. I mentioned something about his hats and went out and bought two more.

It also said that they have contempt for women, and sex is beneath them, that does not make sense to me then how can they be serial cheaters and why do they have relationships.

I must really feed his NPD because we have been together for ten years but in those ten years he has had soemthing else he does as far as addictions, gambling, computer games, and my favorite is breaking promises, he will say he is taking me somewhere and then change his mind.

I only recently downloaded the computer program in June and since then he has watched porn which means he probably has been watching the whole ten years but now he is into shemale porn. Which is wierd but whatever.

My fear is that I know we are done but after reading so much about NPD rage and thier fear of abandonment I know it has to be a quiet exit.

He has all the traits of NPD and one that is making me crazy is he will say something and then when I say it back to him minutes later he says he did not say that or that I took it wrong.

I am just looking for advice on how to stay sane until I can do what I need to do.


BS (me):44
WH:46
4 kids, 26, 21,21,19(3 live with me)
3 grands, 9,7(live with me)and 9 months
DDAY October 26, 2010
doubtful

Posts: 357 | Registered: Jan 2011
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 6:34 AM, August 12th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First I am glad you have accepted it and are ready to act. It will save you a lot of pain. If you are stuck there long term I would suggest just laing low and find ways to agree with him without seeming too appeasing. Always keep a calm voice. If you disagree with him calmly state your opinion and let it go at that. If pressured just calmly say "you may be right". As someone said never meet them head on. Work things around to where they are his idea whenever possible.

To keep his antics such as porn or whatever from driving you nuts.....detach as soon as possible. Just keep repeating to yourself that he is NPD, you are lieaving and it doesn't matter anymore. Remind yourself that you are there physically but you have left the marriage and what he doew just doesn't matter.

We were living seperately but still trying to R so it was easier for me to detach and let go but still had parts and times that I could not or would not detach. Those time just made it harder but it was just part of the course.

Good luck and keep us posted.


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
neverbelieve
♀ Member
Member # 32711
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, August 12th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, I've had it now. I mentioned again, why I have no idea, that he needed to do something to help fix the pain he caused with his A. He said he was doing things and that I was either stupid or thought I was owed something I didn't deserve.

Well, isn't that sweet. What a guy.

He's started hanging out with me when I go to bed. That's it. He insists he's doing more, which REALLY makes me wonder what he was doing before I found out about the A. I'm sure it's absolutely disgusting.

Something I don't deserve. And then he said the relationship was unfixable and that we were done. Of course, he didn't leave. Ugh, just get out already. I'm so not interested in your mindfuck games anymore.

He's starting to bore me.


When the infrastructure of a building is gone the collapse is inevitable.

Posts: 934 | Registered: Jul 2011
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, August 12th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NB, you know what you have to do. What is keeping you??? I know you know, and are acceptingl Do not let him get under your skin. You should have expected nothing less. Stop setting yourself up for those disappointments. I know, I know......I did it too. Just try to curb it anyway.


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
neverbelieve
♀ Member
Member # 32711
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, August 12th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Frank. Yes, I know what do to. I'm lining things up now. In the past he would threaten to leave, my chest would get tight and I'd apologize up and down and he'd stay. Then I caught on to the game but I'd still get tense and have what I'd call an anxiety attack. Today, I honestly could care less. When he first says these things it's shocking and yes, hurtful, but that goes away quickly.

He said last week that he'd 'paid and paid and I still wasn't happy'. Still about him. Not a care in the world how I feel, just that he thinks he's paid enough. As if it's even about him paying.

I started reading "narcissistic lovers" yesterday, and it's great. If anyone here is on the fence about what they're dealing with, I recommend this book.

There is a test inside that you take to see if your SO is an NPD. Unlike other tests where you take it pretending to be them because they're geared as self tests, this one you take as you, based on your observations. Surprise - my H has 'excessive narcissistic traits'. And sadly, I have 'excessive codependency traits' (another test). Match made in hell we are.

I'm emotionally drained. I still have my fun and watch him, but I'm just tired of it. So he threatens to leave. Fine, leave. He has somewhere to go that's an hour away and the place is empty. Gee, wonder why he's staying? Maybe waiting for the "I'm sorry" speech from me? It ain't coming. I'll leave first.

That just pisses me off though. Why should I leave? He's the one that cheated.


When the infrastructure of a building is gone the collapse is inevitable.

Posts: 934 | Registered: Jul 2011
toughgirl8
♀ Member
Member # 29812
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, August 12th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((wanttobeloved)))

Detach. Lay low. Focus on you and your needs. I know it's hard. It was my 180 and detachment that got my H's attention. He didnt' care so much when I was crying, drinking wine and grilling him about the A every night during that first 6 mos after DDay. It was when I realized he didn't care and stopped caring myself that he woke up and realized he no longer had control. It really did help me tho to take the control back, quietly, subtlely, stopped drinking wine so much, and focusing on my kids. I hope you can focus on you and what you need to do for your sanity and happiness.

(((Never)))

It really does suck doesn't it. He should leave. Would he if you told him to? I'm guessing probably not. You don't have kids right? And he has a place to go, then why not. Maybe he is waiting for you to give in. Could you make it clear without things getting too ugly?

My H won't leave, he wouldn't give up any part of the house or what's in it by doing that. I'm stuck with him until we sell it. He will occasionally sleep in the basement tho, depending on his mood. If it serves a purpose as in him getting better sleep, he'll do it. (of course)

My H is in limbo I told him I want a D but he was working on convincing me to give it another try, I haven't answered yet. Driving him nuts. I just keep saying I want space, I'm seeing IC doing things for myself openly now. (It's driving him crazier that I won't tell him what I dicuss with IC).

Then there are the kids...that's what it holding me back right now. School about to start and everything. If my loves weren't here, I'd already be gone. I guess I'm looking for a better time- as if there will be one right?


Me-37
WH-41
M-12 yrs
D Day-3/2010
4 kiddoes
Some may say I have a short temper, I say I have a swift and assertive reaction to bull sh't. ;)

Posts: 327 | Registered: Oct 2010
neverbelieve
♀ Member
Member # 32711
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, August 12th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He won't leave. He'll say he's waiting for the divorce papers. I've said I can mail them but he says he doesn't want 'anyone' knowing where he is. As if i'd go looking???

Really he's waiting for me to make the first move and say I want him to stay. I don't want him to stay. I'm tired of the craziness and the rage episodes and mostly of the really vile things he says.

He can leave whenever he wants, which hopefully is soon


When the infrastructure of a building is gone the collapse is inevitable.

Posts: 934 | Registered: Jul 2011
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, August 12th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Reading this thread is a tremendous help to me. I realize from the stories that you are relating why I have been so hesitant about confronting and leaving. I was always able to allay the NPD rage, and work around WH.

But, I was scared to death of leaving. I knew everything could change in an instant.

I know it's really hard to look back and see how they went from perfect to a little distant to small digs that cut at our esteem to full blow abuse. It takes years so it's unnoticed, except for that alone feeling you talk about. Each little dig hurts because we see that perfect person from the beginning as the one that said it. We think we can fix what's wrong and get back to that perfect time. We can't see that what's wrong isn't us, it's them. Once we realize it's them, the timeline of events becomes really clear and we wonder how we could have been so blind.

This post has helped me tremendously. OMG! Yes, WH was "perfect" was my soul mate, was so romantic, etc etc. But if I did something he didn't like, there were such subtle manipulations done, withdrawl of love/affection, silent treatments, or the "You can do whatever you want, but if you do x, I won't feel as close to you, I'll know you don't care...." and I bought it hook line and sinker!! Geez.

All the pretty words, buying things, declarations of love and then actions did not line up with the words. If called out on it, he would twist and turn the words and make ME feel like I was wrong to feel the way I do.

I'm so scared to walk away now. I'm financially dependent on WH, we have kids together. He's borrowed a tremendous amount of money from me.

But, I'm living on crumbs. Self esteem is in the toilet. WH had an LTA, 3 OC's and I feel he is NPD with a little BPD thrown in.

IC says that she doesnt' label, one can only look at the behaviors. WH has a lot of NPD traits, maybe not enough to be full blown NPD, but, lol the traits he doesn't have, he has more than enough of the others!! Like not having the full spectrum.....but so much of other traits.

He can "fake" empathy so well.

Thank you everyone. You are all in my thoughts and prayers.


Posts: 1900 | Registered: Jan 2010
toughgirl8
♀ Member
Member # 29812
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, August 12th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Never - I'd get him the D papers then. You will have to feel so much better when he's gone.

(((honest)))

It's scary how much we have in common huh? Somehow they are able to make us feel guilty, unworthy, like we should be the ones compromising, beat down our self esteem and twist everything to their advantage. And for a time, we actually believe them, we are empathetic to their needs and willing to sacrifice our own.

It really hurts to be unimportant to those we love.

I read a quote recently that goes something like this: "Don't make someone your priority when you are only their option."


Me-37
WH-41
M-12 yrs
D Day-3/2010
4 kiddoes
Some may say I have a short temper, I say I have a swift and assertive reaction to bull sh't. ;)

Posts: 327 | Registered: Oct 2010
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, August 12th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Toughgirl:

I read a quote recently that goes something like this: "Don't make someone your priority when you are only their option."

OMG!! I just finished writing in my journal a few minutes ago and ended with that quote and came here and saw you wrote the exact same thing!!! WOW.

That is something to live by when you are involved with an NPD. The other thing I have noticed and saw written on this thread somewhere is that when the NPD is intelligent, it can be worse. They are smart enough to mimic empathy, emotions, certain responses, and behaviors that they see are expected. They learn that if they do certain behaviors they can get a positive response and/or manipulate people more.

Unfortunatel, my NPD is very intelligent, and is why he fooled me for so long. But after DDay, and some conversations, I have come to the conclusion that although he may intellectually understand that people feel things, he really doesn't FEEL nor understand it himself. You could go to him for advice or feedback about some problem you are having at work or someone, and he can give a great response and seem so empathetic, etc, but God forbid you tell him that some behavior or words that he said or did hurt you!! He'll twist and turn it around until you are the one apologizing!!!


Posts: 1900 | Registered: Jan 2010
soverybetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 32948
Default  Posted: 11:23 PM, August 12th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question for you all. My stbx sends me a very impersonal email about every 5 days telling me that I have mail or that there is water for me to pick up or that he put some money in savings for me to pay some bills. Every time I see an email from him it is like a dagger to my heart and I find myself hoping he is going to say someting loving and nice.

My question is: is he doing this to keep me "hooked" and giving him supply? If I don't respond to the emails he emails again asking if I am ok (he knows I am ill again) or says he doesn't want to call in case I am too ill. I feel like this is a game he is playing with me. He never signs his name or anything and just starts with HI.

I recently emailed him while on Ambien (do not do this) and I really laid into him. I nailed him on these emails and the lack of personalization, the lack of answsering my questions, his refusing to do any of the things I asked for reconciliation and for continuing to hang out with the skank. It was an ugly email to say the least. And of course he responded with calling me.

So while I know I screwed up breaking the NC, is he sending me these emails every 5-6 days to jerk me around? I really hate getting them.


Me-53
DDay 10/16/2010 DDay2 5/22/2011
Divorced 8/23/2012
I will get stronger and better but no matter where he goes, there he is....

Posts: 1193 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Learning who I am again!
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 12:19 AM, August 13th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your emails that you receive are probably being read by OW. It is part of upholding his good guy image..."See, I am being the good guy here by doing all these nice things". "She is such a bitch and does not appreciate me". "I am justifed in being a cheating, lying, asshole".

And.....he may be keeping a small hook in you. If things don't work out with his new supply, he can come back and say "I always loved you and wanted to take care of you"

The question "who are you when nobody's looking" really applies to NPD. So for him to try to be civil and caring on his emails....tells me somebody is looking.....

NC or a simple thank you. Be ware that not answering drives them to escalate.

If you do not acknowledge his email offering it will probably generate a phone call. And if you do not pick up there will be multiple calls in a row. Then will be the nice VM/Text followed by the escalating nasty VMs/Texts. If you still do not respond you can expect a personal visit. It will be a "you haven't answered so I was just checking on you." And if you say "I am fine. Thanx for checking....Buh Bye" Then you can expect onslaught of "you fucking bitch" type tyraids.

Sooooo.....maybe a simple thank you would be best.....


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 12:35 AM, August 13th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

soverybetrayed,

I would not answer these emails at all. If there is money and you spend it, there's the answer. If the water doesn't get picked up, then he could send a follow up email.

I liken it to fishing. If there is a pull on the line every time the hook hits the water, the fisherman keeps right on fishing. Quit taking the bait, no matter how innocuous or tasty the tidbit.

This may lead to a brief flurry of activity designed to get your attention. Ignore. Whatever you respond to will get repeated.

Go NC and get orders in place to dictate whatever needs to be done by him so you don't need this kind of contact. If he is to put money, then have it ordered and stop communicating about it. I feel very strongly that he is keeping you on the line for his own ego and that it will slow your healing.

(((hugs)))


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5289 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
soverybetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 32948
Default  Posted: 2:31 AM, August 13th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Frank and caregiver, I knew that someone has been helping him on his emails but I just never thought he had someone reading them. He used to be all loving in his emails and now all I get is these impersonal ones. I can also tell that someone has been giving him legal advice because he told me that he wants to refi the house to get my name off it.

I have already spoken to a lawyer and there is no way that is happening until we divide the assets and debts correctly. He really believes that I will just hand over the house and walk quitely away.

Ok so back to NC. This will help me not get my hopes up when I do get emails from him. I know I don't want him back, I guess the hope is that he has figured out he is ready to answser my questions. Insane to hope for that after all this time. Thanks again


Me-53
DDay 10/16/2010 DDay2 5/22/2011
Divorced 8/23/2012
I will get stronger and better but no matter where he goes, there he is....

Posts: 1193 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Learning who I am again!
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