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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Npd Thread Part 8
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, August 13th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

he told me that he wants to refi the house to get my name off it

Uhhhhh.....you will get my name off of the loan......but not the deed.....and you will still owe me something for the equty.....douchebag. And the judge will determine that....asshole. You no longer get to determine shit in my life.......

Comunicate short and polite when you have to but other than that....NC. Don't even respond to stupid shit like the refi issue above. Think it out loud or write it down or post it here but do not enter into an engaged conversation or debate.....save your breath.


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 12:46 AM, August 14th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm hoping I can get some opinions from you guys on this.

I was staying with NPD WH until I can get my ducks in a row, finances and kids.

He was away overseas and when he comes back he gives me some scarves in a bag and tells me that I should keep some and I could give one to my mother and one to my friend. I really didn't look at them.

He went back overseas and I looked at the scarves again. They are not new. No tags, and they smell of perfume. I know they belong to OW.

I don't know if they were in his bag by accident and he covered up by saying he got them for me, or just gave me some of her things. Before Dday, WH asked me to buy some dress suits for "his sisters" but found out after dday that they were for OW.

My question is, should I confront WH and then have to dodge the blameshifting and the twisting and turning of the facts that he will do, or just not say anything and quietly just keep trying to detach?

On one hand, I just don't want him to keep getting away with all this crap, but on the other.....

I thought I had detached, but this really, really hurt. It is so thoughtless and inconsiderate. I know he's NPD, but it still hurts so much.

Thank you so very much.


Posts: 1897 | Registered: Jan 2010
Agate
♀ New Member
Member # 33038
Default  Posted: 1:48 AM, August 14th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

I think it was in his book, living with the Passive agressive man, that the author lists it as a symptom of aggressive narcissism.

This is Factor 1, "Aggressive narcissism", in the Hare Psychopathy Checklist, which includes the following traits:

Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Pathological lying
Cunning/manipulative

Lack of remorse or guilt
Callous/lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Psychopathy_Checklist

Factor 1: Personality "Aggressive narcissism"

Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Pathological lying
Cunning/manipulative
Lack of remorse or guilt
Shallow affect (genuine emotion is short-lived and egocentric)
Callousness; lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

Factor 2: Case history "Socially deviant lifestyle".

Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
Parasitic lifestyle
Poor behavioral control
Lack of realistic long-term goals
Impulsivity
Irresponsibility
Juvenile delinquency
Early behavior problems
Revocation of conditional release

Traits not correlated with either factor

Promiscuous sexual behavior
Many short-term marital relationships
Criminal versatility
Acquired behavioural sociopathy/sociological conditioning

[This message edited by Agate at 1:56 AM, August 14th (Sunday)]


Posts: 15 | Registered: Aug 2011
Agate
♀ New Member
Member # 33038
Default  Posted: 1:49 AM, August 14th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

double post

[This message edited by Agate at 1:54 AM, August 14th (Sunday)]


Posts: 15 | Registered: Aug 2011
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 3:31 AM, August 15th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Agate,

Thanx.....Excellent Links. I had read them before but could not find my way back to this site. I have saved as a favorite on my browser. There are so many links to other stuff....should keep me busy for a while.

Would recomend this site for all NPD victims and survivors. It is a little vague and confusing and may need to be re read a few timse.

A lot of referenct to different research and different findings can be confusing to a degree.; But I will read them all.


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, August 15th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shallow affect (genuine emotion is short-lived and egocentric

Agate, thank you for posting this list. The quote above has really helped. I really got stuck on the lack of empathy issue, because it seemed that WH had some, or at least faked it, but the above quote really hits the nail on the head about him!
Thank you.


Posts: 1897 | Registered: Jan 2010
ohgoodgrief
♀ Member
Member # 30538
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, August 15th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Help! Need 2X4's! Or any advice. My H has tested not total NPD but tendencies by our MC.
Here is my latest dilemma:
He agreed to take a polygraph, I scheduled it and told him about it the night before. He did not do any research that night on how to fool a poly. Dont know if he has in the past or not as he could do that at work.
Went for the poly with a very experienced, professional examiner.
He failed the test big time. All three questions. Over and over again. (they go through the questions, like, four times.)
The polygrapher went over the results with both of us, even showing us on the graph where he was deceptive to the questions.
He acted totally shocked that he didn't pass! And wants a retest with another examiner, which I said I would set up. I figure he won't pass it either, so why not?
Thing is, all weekend he acted like a victim. Falsely convicted blah blah blah. Even after I pointed out, how do you think I feel? This is not just happening to you!
Anyway, still was just dumbfounded how he could have failed.
May I also point out, that over the past few months since we have seen MC, he has been the husband I always wanted him to be. Which confounds the situation!
I even found myself feeling sorry for him! I am big time codependent.
Advice please! Help me to be clear headed about this! We know he is lying! I have him on tape having sex with a woman in our house but it could be arguable since background noise is bad. (not ambiguous to me at all, but he would say it was).
He does not know what I have, but he probably thinks I have something since he found a hidden camera box (it was hidden, but he found it), back in Sept.
I am wondering if he's thinking he's going to wiggle out of this somehow? Is he playing mind games with me?
Could he possibly really BE the man he's been recently or will the old him come back?
Oh, help, anyone!

Posts: 311 | Registered: Dec 2010
neverbelieve
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Member # 32711
Default  Posted: 12:08 PM, August 15th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ohgoodgrief, does he know you have him on tape having sex with someone else? What the hell is that about?

He's manipulating you. You know this. The normal person in you wants things to be ok. They aren't. He assumed since he's such a convincing liar that he'd pass the polygraph. No way would he fail all three questions. No way. He's lying. He knows it, but since there is always some doubt with polygraphs he's playing into your fears of kicking him out when he's really a good guy.

He isn't a good guy. He's manipulative. He makes you think you're imagining things you know you aren't. He has cheated on you and he's still lying about it. He is acting the right way now, just as he did when you first got together, because he has to. Again, you know this.

I'm sorry and I'm in a similar position - not with the poly, but with an NPD - and it's so hard to see the manipulation when it's happening, and even harder to admit that it's being done again.

I read a book, recommended here actually, called Narcissistic Lovers. VERY GOOD BOOK. I suggest you get it - it is very cut and dry regarding the behavior patterns and manipulation of these people, full blown NPD or just 'some' traits.

I wish you a lot of luck. Breaking away from these types is very hard. They know exactly what to say to get what they want, and they're master manipulators.


When the infrastructure of a building is gone the collapse is inevitable.

Posts: 934 | Registered: Jul 2011
ohgoodgrief
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Member # 30538
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, August 15th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NB,
Thank you so much. Just what I needed! I will read your post over and over again. Yes, he's manipulating me, doing the Mr Perfect H, loves me, never has cheated, never would.
Oh, my God, it just messes with the mind! Makes one feel crazy. Second guessing everything.
He has worked his magic on me for 40 years, married almost 35. That's alot to overcome.
Sadly, my IC says I don't even know myself and I'm 59! Have spent my life meeting his needs. And very nicely, I might add. Now he is really threatened and he knows it. No holds barred for him on the NPD thing. He's bringing out the big guns and I see it working even when I recognize what it is.
Going to go download the book.
Again, thank you.

Posts: 311 | Registered: Dec 2010
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, August 15th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

goodgrief,

I think he is playing mind games. He took that poly knowing he was going to fail. Then the oscar winning performance of shock......yada, yada, yada. I can't tell you what to do. If it were me I would insist on a pass beofore considering R. Because that is such an important part of healing, is learning to trust again. How can you trust when you know he can not be honest even at the most important of times. Like the kid in the cookie jar......has a mouthful of cookies but refuses to amdit he was in the cookie jar.....He doesn't get in as much trouble for eating the cookies as he does for lying about it.

Consequences for lying still? Let him know that another deceptive test could end any attempts on your part for R.

FYI...MC is not really qualified to test for NPD. They can fool even the best of the licensed psychoanalysts. A complete psych. evaluation takes 5+ hours of testing. It costs about $1500.oo approx. They run multiple tests....T/F, Multiple Choice, Different Scenerios for the same questions, etc. The tests are designed to cut through the phony answers by tripping them up on their deceptive answers. They are designed to trick the truth out of them. I have not taken one myself but know someone that has. Much like the poly, they will ask the same question multiple ways and compare the different responses. Even then it is not fool proof.

If he is being the model husband other than lying, what else has he done? Has he tried to find his root cause and his "why".

What 3 questions did you ask and what were his responses?

Just because he failed poly does not mean he will repeat. A lot of that will depend on the work he does on himself. Find the root cause, fix what is broken, learn to set and keep new boundries. It will take a lot of work on his part. And part of that is being honest with himself and being honest with you.

No clear cut answers but I think you get the drift of how much more you should be able to expect. You have to decide what you are willing to accept and not accept.

For me....I would not accept a failed poly. I would turn inward and start taking care of myself.....go back to 180....and prepare myself to move forward.....even if it means without him. If he has the "aha" moment then great and you can move forward together. If not....well you will be healing and getting healthier.....just my opinion.....hope you get more opinions soon.

ETA: If he hasn't even admitted to the A and you have solid proof....solid enough for you......then pull the plug. Go hard 180 and start getting your ducks in a row. I did not realize the age and length of the relationship. He has had plenty of practice at deception.....The more experienced ......the harder to detect. If you know he is NPD based on what you have seen and you can not get full psych. eval., start detaching and getting ducks in a row. NPD = NO HOPE....period.

[This message edited by Frank2010 at 12:48 PM, August 15th (Monday)]


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
ohgoodgrief
♀ Member
Member # 30538
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, August 15th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, Frank
He has not had the full testing. MC had him pegged as NPD on first meeting with us. (She's also my IC). Then he took a personality test and it showed traits of NPD with a streak of Sadistic. Bad combo, I'd say.
The questions asked were:
Since you've been married to ogg, have you engaged in any sort of sexual activity with any person or persons besides ogg?
Have you had sexual intercourse or any sort of sexual activity with anyone other than ogg in the home you share with ogg?
Have you been completely truthful with ogg regarding your sexual activity since you have been married?
Pretty clear cut I'd say.
I have my ducks in a row somewhat. Have seen an attorney, know what to expect.
I do have enough proof....for me. I just have been grasping at straws trying to figure out any other explanation for someone having sex in my bedroom while I was out of town.
Can't come up with any.
Yes, he is a master at manipulation.
He even seems proud to be, as he calls it, a Narcisstic Bastard. Think it makes him feel even more special.
Anyway, thanks for your help, guys.
I really need it today.

Posts: 311 | Registered: Dec 2010
Faith2011
♀ Member
Member # 30946
Default  Posted: 10:04 PM, August 15th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sadly, my IC says I don't even know myself and I'm 59! Have spent my life meeting his needs.

This made me feel very sad.

Your NPD WH needs have been catered to long enough. It's time to focus on you and your needs.

Ogg it's never to late to make a life for yourself where you have peace, happiness, surrounding yourself with people who really love and care for you. Finding work or projects that inspire you, help you find your particular strengths.

Putting all your energy into a NPD spouse is wasted energy. There is no reward.

It really makes me angry these NPD's manipulate us to look after them. They are so used to us fixing, instigating, organising, feeding, cleaning up after him, counselling, arranging ..

And they repay us with lies, cheating and NOT ONCE do they ever consider we have needs let alone meeting them, God forbid!



BS me
XNPDWH him
DDay Jan 2011

"Live the best life possible."


Posts: 356 | Registered: Jan 2011
Faith2011
♀ Member
Member # 30946
Default  Posted: 11:54 PM, August 15th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've just received an email from NPD XWH. My heart started pounding damn him.

When I opened it he said his father had passed away. But what was really weird was that my father passed away a few weeks after XWH moved out and I sent him a brief email telling him.

Here's the weird part. His email had almost the exact words (except for the facts of course)and construction.

They really do learn 'social' constructs from others but have no original thought or imagination when it comes to normal social feelings.

I'm not sure what to do. I don't want to engage him but the 'proper normal response' for me is to send him an email back with my condolences. I only met his father briefly a few times over the last 10 years so it isn't appropriate to attend the funeral.

If I didn't know XWH was an NPD I'd be crying for him now thinking how devastated he'd be but now I'm even questioning if he's really feeling anything?


BS me
XNPDWH him
DDay Jan 2011

"Live the best life possible."


Posts: 356 | Registered: Jan 2011
wontsurvive
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Member # 30018
Default  Posted: 3:04 AM, August 16th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

oops on someone elses' computer and login.

[This message edited by wontsurvive at 3:07 AM, August 16th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 10 | Registered: Nov 2010
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 6:16 AM, August 16th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well at least we know where he got that programmed response. Too bad he is not smart enought to not use it with the person he is copying it from.


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
wanttobeloved
♀ Member
Member # 30986
Default  Posted: 6:08 AM, August 17th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lately I have noticed that WH is trying to be more attentive, but he still cannot keep his word and I am still catching him in lies.

I need help putting it in perspective, when MC said he was NPD or borderline I had no idea what that meant, so I started reading up on it. To my surprise he has almost all the traits including rage, so now that he is trying to be nice and get along I am thinking he wants something, which makes me nervous.

Whenever I am not at home he watches porn but some really wierd stuff and then some questionable stuff. like animal porn and teen porn, shemale porn, it makes me sick but I know if I say anything to him what it can lead to.

He is a gambler, gets paid and within days is broke I know that he lies about his money too.

Things are not good and I feel very uneasy in the house with him but everything I have tried to do has fell through, I do not want to live with anyone and I do not want to go to a shelter but I feel like living here is making me crazy especially since I know I cannot confront him.

Please anyone with advice help me understand all of this, what kind of love is this, I do not feel loved I feel lonely, I only know all of this because I was smart enough to get the computer program to keep track of things.

I have shared some of this with my daughter and family because I need support but they keep asking why am I still here, I feel like I am losing their respect and my self respect too.

Yet with all of that he keeps talking about our future and things we will do together, what kind of person have I become putting up with all this and how do I stop,


BS (me):44
WH:46
4 kids, 26, 21,21,19(3 live with me)
3 grands, 9,7(live with me)and 9 months
DDAY October 26, 2010
doubtful

Posts: 357 | Registered: Jan 2011
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 7:20 AM, August 17th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You have read up on NPD so you know that it is incurable and untreatable. Sooooo......Why are you still there???? Do you thing that hell you are living in is your best option?????

He is appeasing you to keep you hooked. He know just how little he can give to keep you in the game.

Honey, we all went through this detaching process. You HAVE to let go. Accept that he is permanently broken. There is no point in prolonging the inevitable. You are living in fear. Is that any way for someone to live? There is no point in confronting him. Especially if he is prone to raging. The stress you put on him will only escalate his behavior and trigger more serious rages.

Your family is right to worry about you. If you had a daughter in this sam situation, what would you tell her to do???? Is the fear of the pain of detaching keeping you there???? If it is, then you need to realize that the sooner you accept the outcome the sooner you can start on the road to healing.

If you leave and start detaching you are only weeks and maybe days away from beginning to feel better. If you stay you will never feel better. Believe me when I say "It is WORTH the pain of detaching"......It is the least of two evils.

This is my experience and echoes what others tried to tell me when I was in your shoes. But you have to do what you feel is best for you.

What do you feel is best for you????


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
wanttobeloved
♀ Member
Member # 30986
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, August 17th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have placed myself in an impossible situation, I am a full time student with no job no savings and no one in a position to take me and my kids in, I have thought about asking him to leave but he is so backed up on the mortgage he has to file bankrupcy and I cannot see him paying for us to be here.

You are right, he is doing as little as possible to keep me hooked and doing whatever he wants to make himself feel better.

What is wrong with me that I am still here, can I possibly be this desperate or are the mental hooks that powerful.

I do know that if money fell from the sky today so me and my kids could live a normal life I would be gone already.

The detachment process is scary but I know I can do it I just do not have the finances to do it and do not want to put us in a worse situation than we are already in, this is a no win situation and a war I am losing.


BS (me):44
WH:46
4 kids, 26, 21,21,19(3 live with me)
3 grands, 9,7(live with me)and 9 months
DDAY October 26, 2010
doubtful

Posts: 357 | Registered: Jan 2011
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, August 17th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First, accept that your lifestyle WILL change. More modest is a kind way of putting it. You have to find the help. Food Stamps, Housing Assistance, Child Support, Part time job, family helping with the kids, church,.....what about Pell Grants for school....Chrisis Centers have lists of resources you can check out.

The money is not going to fall from the sky. No One is going to pluck you from this mess. you have to work your way out of there....quietly. Do some homework and find out what help you can get. Then plan your exit. Contact Legal Aide. An abused woman with kids gets top priority so help should be available quickly. Ask the crisis center and the church/churches if they are aware of any assistnce programs that can help.

Learn to persevere. It will be bumpy for a little while. There is no instant cure unless you are independently wealthy. You have to take charge of your life and start running it like a business. It is the business of survival.


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
wanttobeloved
♀ Member
Member # 30986
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, August 17th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for that I know it is not going to be easy but I am sure that with the right help I can do it. I am just more upset with myself that I have put me and my kids through this and now I have to figure out what to do about making it right.


BS (me):44
WH:46
4 kids, 26, 21,21,19(3 live with me)
3 grands, 9,7(live with me)and 9 months
DDAY October 26, 2010
doubtful

Posts: 357 | Registered: Jan 2011
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