he told me that he wants to refi the house to get my name off it
Uhhhhh.....you will get my name off of the loan......but not the deed.....and you will still owe me something for the equty.....douchebag. And the judge will determine that....asshole. You no longer get to determine shit in my life.......
Comunicate short and polite when you have to but other than that....NC. Don't even respond to stupid shit like the refi issue above. Think it out loud or write it down or post it here but do not enter into an engaged conversation or debate.....save your breath.
Status: S & D'ing
I was staying with NPD WH until I can get my ducks in a row, finances and kids.
He was away overseas and when he comes back he gives me some scarves in a bag and tells me that I should keep some and I could give one to my mother and one to my friend. I really didn't look at them.
He went back overseas and I looked at the scarves again. They are not new. No tags, and they smell of perfume. I know they belong to OW.
I don't know if they were in his bag by accident and he covered up by saying he got them for me, or just gave me some of her things. Before Dday, WH asked me to buy some dress suits for "his sisters" but found out after dday that they were for OW.
My question is, should I confront WH and then have to dodge the blameshifting and the twisting and turning of the facts that he will do, or just not say anything and quietly just keep trying to detach?
On one hand, I just don't want him to keep getting away with all this crap, but on the other.....
I thought I had detached, but this really, really hurt. It is so thoughtless and inconsiderate. I know he's NPD, but it still hurts so much.
Thank you so very much.
I think it was in his book, living with the Passive agressive man, that the author lists it as a symptom of aggressive narcissism.
This is Factor 1, "Aggressive narcissism", in the Hare Psychopathy Checklist, which includes the following traits:
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Lack of remorse or guilt
Callous/lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
Factor 1: Personality "Aggressive narcissism"
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Lack of remorse or guilt
Shallow affect (genuine emotion is short-lived and egocentric)
Callousness; lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
Factor 2: Case history "Socially deviant lifestyle".
Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
Poor behavioral control
Lack of realistic long-term goals
Early behavior problems
Revocation of conditional release
Traits not correlated with either factor
Promiscuous sexual behavior
Many short-term marital relationships
Acquired behavioural sociopathy/sociological conditioning
[This message edited by Agate at 1:56 AM, August 14th (Sunday)]
[This message edited by Agate at 1:54 AM, August 14th (Sunday)]
Thanx.....Excellent Links. I had read them before but could not find my way back to this site. I have saved as a favorite on my browser. There are so many links to other stuff....should keep me busy for a while.
Would recomend this site for all NPD victims and survivors. It is a little vague and confusing and may need to be re read a few timse.
A lot of referenct to different research and different findings can be confusing to a degree.; But I will read them all.
Shallow affect (genuine emotion is short-lived and egocentric
Agate, thank you for posting this list. The quote above has really helped. I really got stuck on the lack of empathy issue, because it seemed that WH had some, or at least faked it, but the above quote really hits the nail on the head about him!
He's manipulating you. You know this. The normal person in you wants things to be ok. They aren't. He assumed since he's such a convincing liar that he'd pass the polygraph. No way would he fail all three questions. No way. He's lying. He knows it, but since there is always some doubt with polygraphs he's playing into your fears of kicking him out when he's really a good guy.
He isn't a good guy. He's manipulative. He makes you think you're imagining things you know you aren't. He has cheated on you and he's still lying about it. He is acting the right way now, just as he did when you first got together, because he has to. Again, you know this.
I'm sorry and I'm in a similar position - not with the poly, but with an NPD - and it's so hard to see the manipulation when it's happening, and even harder to admit that it's being done again.
I read a book, recommended here actually, called Narcissistic Lovers. VERY GOOD BOOK. I suggest you get it - it is very cut and dry regarding the behavior patterns and manipulation of these people, full blown NPD or just 'some' traits.
I wish you a lot of luck. Breaking away from these types is very hard. They know exactly what to say to get what they want, and they're master manipulators.
I think he is playing mind games. He took that poly knowing he was going to fail. Then the oscar winning performance of shock......yada, yada, yada. I can't tell you what to do. If it were me I would insist on a pass beofore considering R. Because that is such an important part of healing, is learning to trust again. How can you trust when you know he can not be honest even at the most important of times. Like the kid in the cookie jar......has a mouthful of cookies but refuses to amdit he was in the cookie jar.....He doesn't get in as much trouble for eating the cookies as he does for lying about it.
Consequences for lying still? Let him know that another deceptive test could end any attempts on your part for R.
FYI...MC is not really qualified to test for NPD. They can fool even the best of the licensed psychoanalysts. A complete psych. evaluation takes 5+ hours of testing. It costs about $1500.oo approx. They run multiple tests....T/F, Multiple Choice, Different Scenerios for the same questions, etc. The tests are designed to cut through the phony answers by tripping them up on their deceptive answers. They are designed to trick the truth out of them. I have not taken one myself but know someone that has. Much like the poly, they will ask the same question multiple ways and compare the different responses. Even then it is not fool proof.
If he is being the model husband other than lying, what else has he done? Has he tried to find his root cause and his "why".
What 3 questions did you ask and what were his responses?
Just because he failed poly does not mean he will repeat. A lot of that will depend on the work he does on himself. Find the root cause, fix what is broken, learn to set and keep new boundries. It will take a lot of work on his part. And part of that is being honest with himself and being honest with you.
No clear cut answers but I think you get the drift of how much more you should be able to expect. You have to decide what you are willing to accept and not accept.
For me....I would not accept a failed poly. I would turn inward and start taking care of myself.....go back to 180....and prepare myself to move forward.....even if it means without him. If he has the "aha" moment then great and you can move forward together. If not....well you will be healing and getting healthier.....just my opinion.....hope you get more opinions soon.
ETA: If he hasn't even admitted to the A and you have solid proof....solid enough for you......then pull the plug. Go hard 180 and start getting your ducks in a row. I did not realize the age and length of the relationship. He has had plenty of practice at deception.....The more experienced ......the harder to detect. If you know he is NPD based on what you have seen and you can not get full psych. eval., start detaching and getting ducks in a row. NPD = NO HOPE....period.
[This message edited by Frank2010 at 12:48 PM, August 15th (Monday)]
Sadly, my IC says I don't even know myself and I'm 59! Have spent my life meeting his needs.
This made me feel very sad.
Your NPD WH needs have been catered to long enough. It's time to focus on you and your needs.
Ogg it's never to late to make a life for yourself where you have peace, happiness, surrounding yourself with people who really love and care for you. Finding work or projects that inspire you, help you find your particular strengths.
Putting all your energy into a NPD spouse is wasted energy. There is no reward.
It really makes me angry these NPD's manipulate us to look after them. They are so used to us fixing, instigating, organising, feeding, cleaning up after him, counselling, arranging ..
And they repay us with lies, cheating and NOT ONCE do they ever consider we have needs let alone meeting them, God forbid!
"Live the best life possible."
When I opened it he said his father had passed away. But what was really weird was that my father passed away a few weeks after XWH moved out and I sent him a brief email telling him.
Here's the weird part. His email had almost the exact words (except for the facts of course)and construction.
They really do learn 'social' constructs from others but have no original thought or imagination when it comes to normal social feelings.
I'm not sure what to do. I don't want to engage him but the 'proper normal response' for me is to send him an email back with my condolences. I only met his father briefly a few times over the last 10 years so it isn't appropriate to attend the funeral.
If I didn't know XWH was an NPD I'd be crying for him now thinking how devastated he'd be but now I'm even questioning if he's really feeling anything?
[This message edited by wontsurvive at 3:07 AM, August 16th (Tuesday)]
I need help putting it in perspective, when MC said he was NPD or borderline I had no idea what that meant, so I started reading up on it. To my surprise he has almost all the traits including rage, so now that he is trying to be nice and get along I am thinking he wants something, which makes me nervous.
Whenever I am not at home he watches porn but some really wierd stuff and then some questionable stuff. like animal porn and teen porn, shemale porn, it makes me sick but I know if I say anything to him what it can lead to.
He is a gambler, gets paid and within days is broke I know that he lies about his money too.
Things are not good and I feel very uneasy in the house with him but everything I have tried to do has fell through, I do not want to live with anyone and I do not want to go to a shelter but I feel like living here is making me crazy especially since I know I cannot confront him.
Please anyone with advice help me understand all of this, what kind of love is this, I do not feel loved I feel lonely, I only know all of this because I was smart enough to get the computer program to keep track of things.
I have shared some of this with my daughter and family because I need support but they keep asking why am I still here, I feel like I am losing their respect and my self respect too.
Yet with all of that he keeps talking about our future and things we will do together, what kind of person have I become putting up with all this and how do I stop,
He is appeasing you to keep you hooked. He know just how little he can give to keep you in the game.
Honey, we all went through this detaching process. You HAVE to let go. Accept that he is permanently broken. There is no point in prolonging the inevitable. You are living in fear. Is that any way for someone to live? There is no point in confronting him. Especially if he is prone to raging. The stress you put on him will only escalate his behavior and trigger more serious rages.
Your family is right to worry about you. If you had a daughter in this sam situation, what would you tell her to do???? Is the fear of the pain of detaching keeping you there???? If it is, then you need to realize that the sooner you accept the outcome the sooner you can start on the road to healing.
If you leave and start detaching you are only weeks and maybe days away from beginning to feel better. If you stay you will never feel better. Believe me when I say "It is WORTH the pain of detaching"......It is the least of two evils.
This is my experience and echoes what others tried to tell me when I was in your shoes. But you have to do what you feel is best for you.
What do you feel is best for you????
You are right, he is doing as little as possible to keep me hooked and doing whatever he wants to make himself feel better.
What is wrong with me that I am still here, can I possibly be this desperate or are the mental hooks that powerful.
I do know that if money fell from the sky today so me and my kids could live a normal life I would be gone already.
The detachment process is scary but I know I can do it I just do not have the finances to do it and do not want to put us in a worse situation than we are already in, this is a no win situation and a war I am losing.
The money is not going to fall from the sky. No One is going to pluck you from this mess. you have to work your way out of there....quietly. Do some homework and find out what help you can get. Then plan your exit. Contact Legal Aide. An abused woman with kids gets top priority so help should be available quickly. Ask the crisis center and the church/churches if they are aware of any assistnce programs that can help.
Learn to persevere. It will be bumpy for a little while. There is no instant cure unless you are independently wealthy. You have to take charge of your life and start running it like a business. It is the business of survival.