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User Topic: Npd Thread Part 8
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, August 30th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Toodevoted,

he loves me more than life itself, he loves me more than he’s loved anyone else, he loves me more than anything else right??

Except himself.....

Toodevoted and Yousaid4ever,

What I don't and will probably never understand is; why doesn't he want to know what is wrong and why can't he change?

The NPD is infalable. They are always right and there is nothing wrong with them....it is everyone else......Classic NPD

When is the last time either of you got a sincere apology backed with actions??? I never got an apology in 31 years. On Dday, 3 1/2 hours later....I finally said "We have been at this 3 1/2 hours and you haven't even sadi you are sorry". She responded with "I'm sorry" in the most cold and unemotional reluctant tone I have ever heard. Like it was going to kill her. It was like she had to admit she was wrong to appease me but she didn't really believe she was wrong.


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
Toodevoted
♀ Member
Member # 33149
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, August 30th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When is the last time either of you got a sincere apology backed with actions???

I know, you’re right Frank I do know that, I really do. I’m just really struggling with this. I’ve read so much over the last few days and it fits it really does, things I’d forgotten or just put down as quirks of his fit, it all does.

But I still can’t help having hope – but I don’t want to have it either

At the moment he’s away for another week, I’m in such a mind boggled mess – and I can’t forget that he cheated on me and maybe has done many times since. But I thought that was the only issue that I had to deal with – now I’m doubting every word that he’s said to me and I’m struggling with doing that

I feel like I’m in denial, but how can you be in denial when you are also admitting that it’s probably true?

I really do appreciate every single post on here, every word of advice, every insight into what others are going through, I feel a little lost really


BS (me): 44
WH: 44
DD: Dec 2009 but let him rugsweep

Posts: 60 | Registered: Aug 2011
Toodevoted
♀ Member
Member # 33149
Default  Posted: 12:00 PM, August 30th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

so he said he won't be home then, he'll be out getting drunk and getting laid.

I'm so sorry that he says such hurtful things to you but hope that those hurtful things get you through it all (((toughgirl8)))


BS (me): 44
WH: 44
DD: Dec 2009 but let him rugsweep

Posts: 60 | Registered: Aug 2011
SierraGrace
♀ Member
Member # 24259
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, August 30th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not even married to the guy but stuck around for 6 long years of this, continuing to hold out hope he'd have a "lightbulb" moment, and wondering, what is wrong with me for still holding out hope for putting up with such abuse, manipulation, lies, cheating, while thinking things will turn about, he will again be the sweet loving guy he started out as. Come to find out that was all fake. The truth is, nothing is wrong with us other than we were taken by these people. We are loving, caring, trusting, and empathetic and I'd rather be that than NPD.

This is from a book I'm currently reading.

Narcissists can turn the sanest of individuals into victims. You may recall that your partner's behavior at the beginning of the relationship was charming, generous and caring. Not only that, but the emotional abuse probably didn't appear until a lasting committment was made. That's when everything changed for the worse. There are no simple ways to extricate ourselves once the knot is tied, particularly if we have children to care for. Plus, many of us still remember the dazzling courtship and we're waiting until that person shows up again. This "now you see it, now you don't phenomenon" is the most addictive attachment there is. It keeps us hooked to potential and paralyzes us.


BSO(me): 50-ish! How did THAT happen?
~♥~ Fur-kids: 5 Cats ~♥~
Adopt a pet! Save a life!

Posts: 1577 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Sunrises to Sunsets
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, August 30th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((toodevoted))))

There is no time table. You'll be ready when you are ready. You will find acceptance on your own terms. I think IC can help with this process. Reading or journaling can help. The more time and space between you and the NPD influence will help too. I swear the crazy making and the self doubt that can be created by an NPD who wants to keep you as supply or wants to unsettle you or wants to drive you to some insane reaction is hard to fathom. If the NPD is ignoring you, then you can begin to heal and to see the past and recognize the level of "not normal." But if you are under the influence of the NPD?? You will need super defenses and the support of a group and an IC and some super friends and family.

Knowledge is power. But seeing the cliff doesn't mean you have to jump before you are prepared. Take the time you need to feel ready, to be financially prepared, to have a plan.

Hope is natural. We have hope because we have feelings. Because we know how it *should be between two people who love and have empathy. But no words will ever create emotion where none exists. Flowery skilled writing that brings us to tears or evokes a chuckle is capable of bringing those emotions to the surface but they exist within us already. There are no words that will plant the seed and grow emotions in a selfish entitled NPD.

I was always (yes ALWAYS) dissatisfied with every apology I ever received. I spent many words trying to explain to Stretch why his apology didn't make it better. He never got it. He never got better at it. He resorted to buying a card (those words were better than his and it showed an *effort). Or he avoided me until the emotions I felt wore themselves out. Who can sustain hurt or anger forever in the midst of a busy family life and who would want to?? So the waiting game worked for him too.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5300 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:45 PM, August 30th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jpapageorge))) you’re welcome (to the land of busted lightbulbs, misfit toys, and broken toasters).
Stick around awhile, and you get a *special code* that enables you to bathe with certain rubber zebraduckies while learning all there is to know about caulking…
(the only thread on SI that has an *official* song, mascot, and tool – PLUS we get to regularly poke cg…I heard she likes it)


(((wanttobeloved)))

I continue to go IC and try to understand why

I hope the IC is helping you to understand why YOU…(allow this in your life, got it in your life in the first place, etc.) There’s NO real, final understanding of the NPD = “THEM”. You will not. That’s frustrating to hear. It’s a round-and-round wasted effort. If the IC continues trying to get you to understand crazy, I’d posit that s/he’s just after a paycheck. S/he should know that you can’t reason with crazy. The best I’ve been able to piece together is from these threads.
Again.
The best.

In my humble humble opinion, NPD begins with some sort of familial emotional &/or physical abandonment or abuse. Read up on Stockholm syndrome. I believe that NPD’s develop toxic shame (see John Bradshaw), and identify themSELVES as “bad”. That’s the first false self image.

-for most “normals” we acknowledge that we DID a bad thing, and improve ourselves, (do you know, I still remember when I stole the candy bar?- homahgawwwwd!)…and we work to improve ourselves…become better. The key is I was a bad thing, I did a bad thing, but I AM NOT ...the bad thing)

To cover that (the false belief that “I am bad”)…and indeed, it is a heavy heavy load of self-loathing to carry!....they develop the complete opposite and equally false persona.
The one on the surface. The one we’re all so painfully familiar with. The skittle-shitting unicorn.

Thing is, they’re both false. There’s no “there” there.

That’s my best understanding. Hope it helps.

(((yousaid4ever)))

why can't he change?

Because the coping behavior, and the maintaining of false fronts to cover the polar opposite and competing false self-images uses up all their energy. The external damage that they cause…you and your children…are an afterthought – to the desperate maintenance of their outward-appearing. They avoid themselves at all costs and you are the recipient of the outfall.

I would, if I could, give you great joy, in knowing what you know and learn here? You will find your new you. Exciting, isn’t it? Hugs sister.

(((Toodevoted)))

I'm trying to think of the endless bad right now because those good times really had little value when deep inside I knew things were very wrong, they were fake

AAAAAAAAAAAAAA men!
I have been posting this idea for awhile.
Think of the bad peeps!
It helps w/ DETACHMENT
DETACH = Don’t Even Think About CHANGING Him/Her
Thinking of the good, as good ppl are wont to do, sabotages.
Remember the bad!
(that’s sick…but away from it…in a funny way…beyotches!)

(((toughgirl)))

so he asked if I'm done, I said yes

See what happens when you give them information? Your life becomes more complicated…uhhuh? So…what have we learned grasshopper?

(“Give them nothing, but take from them everything!” is a good answer)
Brilliant! Final Straw! Love your toughness guuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrl!

Frank2010)))
I got a kneeling, keening apology at the very spot she fucked her guy on, at the corner of her mother’s house.
It was still empty.
Sometimes, (often? NPD is co-morbid with Histrionic HPD), she coulda been paid for that act. Gut knows what’s empty, and what’s been filled…


Posts: 6012 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 7:26 PM, August 30th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I said the line in the song is hysterical.... NOT that poking me is hysterical.

I want a t-shirt. A t-shirt with a zebraduck and a caulk gun. You know, been there done that, got the t-shirt??

There's no "there" there

that is it. They cycle through responses and emotions like a dog running all the tricks to get the treat. Sit, lie down, beg, bark, except the NPD will eventually bite out of frustration. And blame you for bleeding.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5300 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
toughgirl8
♀ Member
Member # 29812
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, August 30th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thx all.

jjct- I'm gonna need all the tough I can muster for this. I'm beating myself up over what I'll be doing to my kids. Can't wait to see my IC again...soon.

Frank- thanks to you too, I'll re-read your support and inspiration to keep me going.

((((toodevoted))) Thank you. I know how you feel, hopeless but unable to let go of hope at the same time. It has been a slow, grueling, process but I've finally reached the point where I KNOW I'll be happier without him, I'm willing to make sacrifices to get away, to be able to breathe again. I'm so much better than this, I KNOW I did NOT deserve any of it. I can be bitchy, but never deserved what I've gotten. You don't deserve it either. You CAN be happy. This is the 1 life we've got, we need to share it with those who are worth it. Strength to you and HUGS!!

Sierra - you know what I just thought when I read your excerpt: My H was always vain and cheap and a little selfish, but I thought I could overlook it, so I still married him, but the NPD started to really rear its ugly head after we had our first baby. She took my attention away, my admiration, my time, my energy, my love. That was a pain in itself for him, then my StepD moved in with us full time, I was pulled away more, then came TWINS that he wasn't prepared for and he really didn't want. (despite his adamant denial) He wasn't prepared to take 5th fiddle so looked for it all elsewhere. I didn't fulfill the need, unconsciously, then consciously thru 180 and detachment. His reactions got worse and worse and more obsessive and cruel.

My IC described NPD as 'sad really' but how sad really for those of us who are abused because of it. It's truly awful being willfully destroyed from the inside out by someone who is supposed to love you.


Me-37
WH-41
M-12 yrs
D Day-3/2010
4 kiddoes
Some may say I have a short temper, I say I have a swift and assertive reaction to bull sh't. ;)

Posts: 327 | Registered: Oct 2010
toughgirl8
♀ Member
Member # 29812
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, August 30th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Caregiver - this is so great...

They cycle through responses and emotions like a dog running all the tricks to get the treat. Sit, lie down, beg, bark, except the NPD will eventually bite out of frustration. And blame you for bleeding.


Me-37
WH-41
M-12 yrs
D Day-3/2010
4 kiddoes
Some may say I have a short temper, I say I have a swift and assertive reaction to bull sh't. ;)

Posts: 327 | Registered: Oct 2010
Faithsurviver
♀ Member
Member # 30860
Default  Posted: 10:39 PM, August 30th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Since MC/IC and I have determined that xwh is NPD, my question, that I so much want to find the answer to, is what did xwh see in me that made me his target? I need to know what vibes I give off to attract these losers. FYI- I have been in two relationships in the past that I think now may have been budding NPD's


BW (me) 51
XWH 53, but acts like a 15 y/o
M 18 yrs
DS 16, DD 14 (on D-day)
EA,PA with OW, 30 yrs his jr.
DDay 11/30/09 (DS's B-day), WH moved out 4 days later.
I filed for D-1/29/10,
DIVORCED 10/22/10
You can't reason with an NPD!!!

Posts: 331 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Midwest
SierraGrace
♀ Member
Member # 24259
Default  Posted: 10:49 PM, August 30th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Faith, I just happened to see this while reading through the old threads that should answer our burning question....why us:

Traits of targeted women:

Consider the research by Dr. Liane Leedom on women who were targeted by psychopaths. She found that they have three traits in common:

* Extraverts. The women are outgoing, competitive, strong-willed and liked excitement. Sometimes they are free-spirited.

* Cooperative. They are high in empathy, tolerance and compassion. They value getting along with others, and are willing to compromise their own interests for the larger picture.

* Invested in relationships. They like being around people. They are sentimental and focus on special moments


BINGO....this would be meeeee.


BSO(me): 50-ish! How did THAT happen?
~♥~ Fur-kids: 5 Cats ~♥~
Adopt a pet! Save a life!

Posts: 1577 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Sunrises to Sunsets
wanttobeloved
♀ Member
Member # 30986
Default  Posted: 6:34 AM, August 31st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it possible for them to change or should any changes be looked at as thier way of putting hooks in you deeper.

He suprised me last night with this statement, "I am coming into my own and I want you to be happy, so I want to change my ways." I was confused and asked him what he meant and he said that he is feels more mature and wants to be there for me. That was regarding a retreat for a weekend in October that he said he would watch the kids if I wanted to go, very much out of character for him to volunteer to watch the kids for a weekend

Earlier when he came home from work he said that he is doing everything in his power to make me trust him again and that he is not doing anything wrong.

So after he made all these comments to me I said prove it, and he said he shouldn't have to he said it and he meant it and that should be enough.

Is it possible that he is trying and I am so stuck on the fact that he has NPD that I can't see it, or is this just another way of him trying to get me hooked so I let my guard down so he can feel comfortable again?

He did get very angry when I said proove it and said that he thought he said something really nice to me and all I could say in return was that he wanted me to go to get out of his face for the weekend,

Then I told him that his comment caught me off guard because it is coming from someone that sits in front of the computer for ten hours playing scrabble and never even attempts to show me any affection, so for him to say that meant to me that it anything other than him can make me happy than go for it.

The comments he made just came out of nowhere, and they are not the norm for him. I just know that he can ususally say the right things and if I am not careful I can fall right back into his trap. But for one minute last night I wanted to believe him and tell him how sweet that was.

He is constantly telling me that he is not doing anything wrong and he is trying really hard to make me believe in him again, we have been together for ten years and he would never let me go somewhere for a weekend and volunteer to watch the kids.

I do want to go to the womens retreat but I am not sure of his intentions. I guess he has his hooks in him by me not trusting him and being on the edge constantly not knowing what he is really capable of.

So my question when can we believe anythng they say? Are there always alterier motives for them being nice to you? Is there ever a time that we cna trust them to do the right thing or should we always know that they want something?


BS (me):44
WH:46
4 kids, 26, 21,21,19(3 live with me)
3 grands, 9,7(live with me)and 9 months
DDAY October 26, 2010
doubtful

Posts: 357 | Registered: Jan 2011
Toodevoted
♀ Member
Member # 33149
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, August 31st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Think of the bad peeps!

I’m trying! Argggh not succeeding today with that very well

I want a t-shirt. A t-shirt with a zebraduck and a caulk gun. You know, been there done that, got the t-shirt??

They cycle through responses and emotions like a dog running all the tricks to get the treat. Sit, lie down, beg, bark, except the NPD will eventually bite out of frustration. And blame you for bleeding.

Just brilliant

Is it possible for them to change

I am really interested in knowing this too. This is the main thing that I’m really struggling with because I want to HOPE that he can.

I’m sorry to keep going on but I just feel – desperate I suppose.

He doesn’t say the hurtful things such as anyone on here seems to get, telling toughgirl8 he was going to go and get laid was horrific. In fact he does very very little to give me a SOLID reason to say that he’s out of order. I know cheating on me was a solid reason, but he hoped not to be found out, I mean he’d never give me such a BLATANTLY obvious reason by saying something like that, actually he would, but only when he’s having a rage, not in a calm(ish) conversation.

And this is where I’m struggling, I know there are different levels, can those on the lower end change? I can’t help that I absolutely love him, I want to have that hope still. I want to be able to get through to him. He has so many good points but yes I know those are only there as long as I put no demands on him for anything and live life as he wants.

He works away a lot, he’s pretty ‘normal’ with the kids and buying presents etc and buys things age relevant unlike so many stories I’ve read on here. If one of my family members died he’d certainly not ask me to get ice-cream and although he probably couldn’t deal with the emotional side of it too much other than give me a hug, he’d make coffee, make dinner, let me have time on my own, check that I was ok etc. He’s quite ‘normal’ IF it’s nothing to do with him or the relationship. Everyone thinks he’s WONDERFUL in fact and the life and soul of the party.

I’ve no idea what he’s like at work really but I’d not like to work for him. He’s pretty much the top at work so everyone else is paid to put up with him.

With his family, well he doesn’t have that much time for them, he likes to discuss the material things he’s bought a lot with them, but he does ask about family members, how they are etc, he’s quite normal to others around him.

The problem is with me, it’s the relationship.

Whatever traits he DOESN’T seem to show, he certainly isn’t easy to be with or normal and is getting worse. He still believes he can do whatever he likes, he has a right to do that as he’s far more superior than I am. I don’t have any rights to question him, doubt him, put him on the spot, call him on anything and as soon as I do then that’s it, a total rage which I’ve noticed is getting worse and more unreasonable and more illogic. The last couple of times he’s scared me. But then I guess that’s what he wants so that I don’t do it again.

I can’t life in fear of speaking to him any more. I can’t live with the lies, I can’t live my life with someone who can’t keep one promise he makes, who uses promises as a carrot to dangle in front of me and then breaks it as soon as he has his own way, I can’t live my life with someone who has rages that are getting worse and worse and more and more unreasonable, I can’t live with someone who gives me the ‘silence’ every time I dare confront him about anything. I can’t live with someone who is ALWAYS right, who even when confronted with that he’s wrong can’t admit that, who can’t bear that to happen and ‘loses it’. I can’t live with someone who twists every word that I say so that it takes the focus away from that I’ve just proved that he’s wrong. I can’t live with someone who destroys my self confidence and feeling of self worth with sly comments or comments some that are disguised to be compliments but really are not. Someone who makes all decisions with no consultation because he knows what is best, I’m talking major decisions too. The mental torture. The nights laid in bed feeling truly sick because he’s sent me an e-mail and I daren’t read it, the nights spent laid next to him not sleeping with a churning stomach knowing that the confrontation could happen at any moment, not wanting tomorrow to arrive for it to happen. The uncertainty and no stability. He has a serious lack of moral boundaries, hard to explain but he really does, he has different ones to most people, but they can only apply to him and not me.

Not forgetting the cheating, he’s never admitted it but no longer denies it either. I can’t go on with no trust and not daring to bring it up because of the reaction that I need to put the past behind me or there is no hope for us etc followed by the ‘silence’ for days – after the temper of course about how much he does for me, how ungrateful I am, how I don’t deserve him blah blah blah. The fact is that I have no doubts that he’s done it again. He works away, he has the opportunities more than most really, add that to the long periods of times that he’s not even speaking to me, I have no idea what he’s up to really. It’s been a year, there could be just that one but there could also be 10,20, 30 who knows and it kills me.

I can’t imagine him stalking me, harassing me, causing me any problems at all if we broke up, I’d just be wiped from his mind because he’d see it as ‘my loss’ and I’d not get better than him anyway.

Can he change how he treats me? Can he understand all of this? Or is he already on the path to being as TRULY AWFUL of some of those on here that I’ve read about, does it get worse? Can it get better at the stage that he’s at now? I doubt that he would go to IC/MC as that would be his worse fear, to have someone tell him that he’s wrong and neither could he bear to hear a stranger hear anything ‘bad’ about him. I think he’d rather die first.

We’ve been together for 8 years, I guess that I just keep holding out that the man I fell in love with will come back instead of this arrogant and obnoxious stranger.

So, back to... can they change?


BS (me): 44
WH: 44
DD: Dec 2009 but let him rugsweep

Posts: 60 | Registered: Aug 2011
SierraGrace
♀ Member
Member # 24259
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, August 31st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, back to... can they change?

And that is the million dollar question. From what I've been reading the answer is no, UNLESS and UNTIL they want to change and are willing to engage in serious years worth of therapy...

During my walk this morning I was thinking about my situation which in many ways is easier than many of yours in that, we weren't married, don't have children together. But...in many ways is more difficult than many of yours because I'm not only mourning the loss of the dream but the "death" of those children I loved with my whole heart and soul, and will ALWAYS love them.

I KNOW he used my vulnerability of not being able to have children against me. This is ultimately what gives me the sickest feeling in the pit of my stomach. Oh yes, the cheating and lying does too, but the amount of time I spent with those kids is unfathomable. Early on, we DID become a family. The family I never thought I'd have. I was invited to be and with them always, for everything. We did everything together as a "family." And the children wanted it that way. Unlike when a new SO comes into the picture and children get bratty or uncomfortable, there was none of that. We took to each other immediately. So I DID get to experience so much with them from the ages of 5 & 7 to 11 & 13. Some of the most amazing and formative years.

I was at soccer and little league, we went on many trips together, played every imaginable game together, shopped together, played together, ate together and of course they lived with me for a time too.

To me, there was nothing as special as the sound of children playing. There was nothing as special as hearing them say, Sierra, come watch me, come play with me, Papa is Sierra coming with us, can we go over to Sierra's?? OH. MY. GOD. Shoot me.

Today is the first day of school and traditionally every year I went as part of the "family" to the school the day before to meet their teachers and see their rooms...of course that was yesterday and this is the first year I'm no longer involved.

Even recently, not as involved as I once was, I did spend some time with he and them and we went golfing and it was like I was never apart from them....all things Sierra. I know their Mom is NPD also, not a very nice or nurturing woman, so I'm sure that was part of their connection with me, because I'm peaceful, kind, loving, never tried to take the place of their Mom but was always their friend...always...and supportive in any way possible.

I cleaned up kid puke, I ran to the store in the middle of the night to get medicine, I helped with homework, I helped them celebrate their Dad on his birthday and father's day and of course celebrated them grandly on their birthdays. I wasn't the one to discipline but just support their Dad when he had to, and reminded them of the rules. And they are GREAT, well behaved boys, so rarely needed a lot of discipline.

When xSO and his xW spent 5 years in court battling finances and custody, I was part of all of that, offering as much support to him and to the boys as possible, amidst all of the confusion and conflict.

As he had to sell home after home, his commerical building, his vacation home, he too lost his dream of passing any of these off to his kids. I promised them they'd never be without a home and I had to reneg on that BECAUSE of their Dad. The saddest day of my life...

I am in serious mourning. That rat-bastard. He stole my family from me. Apparently it was nothing but a "faux" family, but it was the only family I had, it was a family I WANTED, wanted to be a part of FOREVER, and now everyone is dead and I am the only survivor...barely surviving...left with nothing but memories...that I can't shake...that I can't wrap my brain around, are over.

I'm now understanding the depths of NPD on an intellectual level, but on an emotional level I will NEVER understand how one man could take something so beautiful and DESTROY it and destroy the person who loved him, despite his many flaws, loved his children deeply and fully, and wanted to for the rest of our lives, for what???? For what???

Thank you for giving me a place to express this...


BSO(me): 50-ish! How did THAT happen?
~♥~ Fur-kids: 5 Cats ~♥~
Adopt a pet! Save a life!

Posts: 1577 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Sunrises to Sunsets
heart_in_a_blend
♀ Member
Member # 24191
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, August 31st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sierra,
I don't know you and have not followed your saga, but reading your post today broke my heart.

My husband is a NPD also although never professional diagnosed, he refuses counseling. He struggles everyday to be this different man, but always reverts back to who he really is. It's very difficult to live with someone that is just a phony. Nothing good they do really matters because you know it isn't real. That makes me unreal too.

We do not have children because I was physically unable and neither one of us wanted to adopt 38 years ago. Now I'm glad that we did not. He would not have been a good father.

We have had several dachshunds over our 38 years of marriage. And of course they where our children or so I thought until his MLC in 2008. Then to him they where just dogs. The very word "just" defined everything in your lives back then. He was going to take them because I was going to have to live in a one bedroom apartment and that would not have worked for them. He told me he would allow me to visit them. How cruel of a thing to say to me. "just" one of the many said then.

I now that dogs can not compare to children. I wish I had some words of comfort for you. Want you to know that I will be looking for your post from now on.


In life, much of what one grieves one never had.

Posts: 3036 | Registered: May 2009
Toodevoted
♀ Member
Member # 33149
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, August 31st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sierra, honestly I could cry when I read that. The pain and hurt is so easy to hear and feel. I have no words of wisdom just wanted you to know that people care

(((Sierra)))


BS (me): 44
WH: 44
DD: Dec 2009 but let him rugsweep

Posts: 60 | Registered: Aug 2011
SierraGrace
♀ Member
Member # 24259
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, August 31st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you so much for that...heart and toodevoted (just saw your post after I'd sent mine) Hugs to you both.

I guess my cats ARE my real children and will always be, but even two of them belong to xSO's boys. We adopted them on an RV camping trip from VERY little because the boys begged me to have their "own" kitties and they all were living with me at the time. We had to teach these babies how to eat, drink, pee, poo in the litter box and to watch those boys tenderly love and nuture those kitties was amazing. Those kitties have the sweetest ever personalities and I credit that to the boys and their TLC they heaped upon them.

When they moved out, it was a no-brainer that the kitties would stay with me, because xSO wouldn't take care of them as I do, he only has the boys part time, but they have come to visit them here.

SO I totally get companion animals as being our "children."

Thank you again for your kindness....

I am SO broken hearted over the loss of those boys. I WANTED to watch them grow up, become crazy teens, still support them, go to graduation, live through their girlfriends, cars, marriage and babies.

And, one thing I WILL say on xSO's behalf, as NPD as he is, as horrible as a partner he was, he was and is a most amazing Dad...also what kept me attached. He always told me how his parents never told him they loved him, never expressed or showed love and that he would never withold that from his boys...and he hasn't. He is the most loving, devoted father. He wanted the best for those boys, he's taught them so much good, nurtured them, loved them, protected them. So to juxtapose that with how horrible he was to me, makes no sense whatsoever, none. Ever.

[This message edited by SierraGrace at 10:17 AM, August 31st (Wednesday)]


BSO(me): 50-ish! How did THAT happen?
~♥~ Fur-kids: 5 Cats ~♥~
Adopt a pet! Save a life!

Posts: 1577 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Sunrises to Sunsets
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, August 31st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wantobeloved - So after he made all these comments to me I said prove it, and he said he shouldn't have to he said it and he meant it and that should be enough.

They are masters of words and theatrics with very little substance to back them up.

He is trying to appease you with words. When you challenged him with "prove it" you got an intimidation response.

It is all manipulation....

Learn it and sort through it and it will all become very clear to you.

Sorry you are going through that "desperate hope" stage. It can be exhausting.

(((Sierra))) I am so sorry for your pain and loss. Your story truly tugged at my heart. There has to be a bigger plan for you. NO Greater Being would put you through this without there being a bigger plan for you. You are a giving and caring person. There is a place for you out there that will return joy to your heart.


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
wanttobeloved
♀ Member
Member # 30986
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, August 31st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why do I bother going through the "desperate hope" stage. I know that he is trying to manipulate me but why does he bother, it seems like it would be easier to just find another target.

I read in one of the articles that men with NPD are masters at finding targets, they charming, do everything they can to look their best so people will love to be around them.

So why put so much effort into me and saying all the right things when I know what he has done and his perfect image is gone.

I was talking through this before and realized that his porn addiction did not just come out of nowhere and he did not just wake up one day and say I am going to have a ONS, these things have been happening all along and I am just finding out because the red flag went up. I look back on our relationship and remember all the times he turned me down and said that if I am the kind of women that needs that everyday than I am with the wrong man. How all of his addictions have always come first and how I felt so lonely even in the realtionship.

I sat last night and listened to him tell his kid that if something does not feel right it probably isn't, I remember saying to him that something did not feel right with him and he said it was my imagination or I was crazy.

When do I bounce out of this stage and into reality of my situation. It is exhausting and I constantly remind myself to just knod and smile. I jsut do not undrstand why he decided to make me his normal or why after getting caught he did run like hell to find someone else to be his normal.


BS (me):44
WH:46
4 kids, 26, 21,21,19(3 live with me)
3 grands, 9,7(live with me)and 9 months
DDAY October 26, 2010
doubtful

Posts: 357 | Registered: Jan 2011
toughgirl8
♀ Member
Member # 29812
Default  Posted: 3:35 PM, August 31st (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Sierra)))

I'm so sorry. I have a Step daughter who was 8 when I married her father. She'll soon be 20, a college student who has no relationship with her mother anymore. I have 2 big helps for keeping my relationship with her: 1- she's an adult and if she wants to see me she will, and 2-she has 3 siblings who barely know she's not biologically mine and she will always maintain a relationship with them, these things will keep her in my life. It would be devastating to lose what she and I have worked for for the last 13 yrs. I'm so sorry...

wanttobeloved- be cautious, I know you want to believe he wants to change and make things better, but I got the same kinds of promises plus a little dig like 'our kids deserve better, we need to make this work' but he won't see an IC, only MC, which we've already done and he played her too. But anyway the good promises never lasted. He'd give me a couple days of space and start asking for sex again. Then even if I had it say on a Tuesday, he'd be asking by Thurs if I'd be ready for it again on Sat but if I say no on Sat for whatever reason, the rage starts and he throws a temper tantrum. These progressively got worse. As did the emotional abuse. Just please be careful... he won't likely change... the promise is only temporary to get you to do what he wants.


Me-37
WH-41
M-12 yrs
D Day-3/2010
4 kiddoes
Some may say I have a short temper, I say I have a swift and assertive reaction to bull sh't. ;)

Posts: 327 | Registered: Oct 2010
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