just wanted to shout out to you allgood....how far you have come to see your ws in funs ws...and to see his "simple" statement for what it probably is....so yay for you allgood...yay for you...
and for me: my kids didn't say that they want us to split up they just don't want to live with us....and in thinking about all this, last nite i felt very beat up..in talking to my mom she made me realize that i wasn't being beat up as much as i was being told to leave pfm...and of course he doesnt' see that either....anyways about my kids...hours later upon reflection i am thinkin alot of it is normal teenagedom...wanting to be more independent and i think i was taking it wrong...yes there is some more tension in the house...less fighting then there ever was though...but that was before they knew there were issues....i think my kids may be somewhat scared of how this all may play out...or more likely just want their independence which means freedom from the crazy!!!if i am making any sense...
and fun i agree with ats you are an angel...and how cool that you are making the commitment to really working on the marriage...
gotta go, i got a kid just walked in the door!!!
Allgood -- you're making progress. Baby steps.
No fun -- hugs to you and your husband. Sounds like you got the middle of the road, neither best nor worst case scenario. For this we are all grateful.
Tryn -- Your wisdom is always an inspiration to us all.
You, dip and ats are my heroes. You three remind me constantly that shining examples of virtuous manhood exist. Thank you all for that.
Have y'all noticed there are a LOT of new BH's in JFO lately?
Hi to everyone else. I'm not so helpful today. Running a nasty fever and also found some cookies on the computer last night for spankwirelive.com and xxxmatch.com -- "the #1 sex hookup site on the Internet" hey -- at least he goes for #1. F*in A.
I totally started packing all my sh*t in my bedroom this AM but my older kids came home from their playdate early so I didn't get to finish.
But, lucky me, my anniversary is on Monday. Ugh. At least the two older boys will be at IL's next week.
I talked, really talked to my Mom yesterday, probably for the first time in a year. My dad used to be like pfm, sans the cheating, when I was a kid and mom dealt with that.
Miracle -- my Dad did eventually get better. He did IC AND group therapy. 2 1/2 years. My sister still hates him but he and I are really close now. But it took a lot to get him there. Mom had to tell him it was either IC or get out. And he had to watch my XH have a complete nervous breakdown. Just some thoughts.
Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde -- we had a lovely evening last night. Then he got irritated I don't want anything for our anniversary. Tried to pick a fight over it. He was hurt. Then this AM he leaves without even saying good morning, even though he was talking to our nanny. And THEN he sends me an e-mail. Meanwhile, I'm finding those nasty cookies.
Do y'all see why he's making me CRAZY?
Where is Dip? I hope those alligators didn't eat him!
thanks for the words of encouragement...it is good to hear them and i need to hear them...still feeling emotionally pained...the tears are seemingly flowing too easily...not to good considering i am having company tonite for the weekend...i may have to take a xanax to stay even keeled...
honest allgood and
you all have a pm
I think the only thing that is truly clear about my WH is this: whatever it is he needs -- he needs to figure it out for himself and I am somehow getting in the way of that, though that certainly has not been my intent.
he needs to figure it out for himself and I am somehow getting in the way of that
i completely disagree with this m3, he is getting in his own way....it really has nothing to do with you...he obviously has issues, and its obvious that he is not dealing with them in any kind of a productive or healthy way.....
just know that its not you like your ic said, which i loved hearing...it goes well with what fnf's ic said years ago
yours: you are not crazy, your husband is just a dick
(or something close to that)
wheeling his chair right up to him and telling him its been 8 fucking years...
you gotta love the "c"s who tell it like it is in no uncertain terms...
I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!
Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27
Well, in my case .....my husband makes me feel special now... because EVERYTHING about him and our marriage has changed post d-day.
One of the books I read post d-day was Broken Open... the the main idea was that often a very traumatic event... even if its negative can often have a positive effect on your life if it 'breaks open' your life and allows you to start fresh....to start over....
My husband was a functional alcoholic... and was on a decline for many years leading up to getting involved in the affair... it was his attitude, mind set...his way of looking at the world, at me, the kids..
he was depressed, angry, selfish, alcoholic,unhappy....unappreciative much of the time (not all...mind you.. he did have days and times when he connected again with me and the kids...that was what kept me hopeful and in the marriage).
But, looking back I realize how toxic he had become..especially during the affair years...
so... in effect the MOW got him at his absolute worst...he was in the worst physical shape of his life, drinking very heavily, very depressed, and angry and...extremely selfish....
he used the MOW, degraded her and she allowed it..for whatever sick reasons she had to continue to live her life this way...
so, on an intellectual level..there's really nothing about his interraction with the MOW that I am truly jealous of...
I would never want to be used as someone who gives drunk middle aged men BJs in parking lots... and I never want someone to send me emails telling me I'm a slut and thats what he likes about me...
so what he said and did with the MOW is not special....
he did not treat her 'special'.
Now.... on the other hand ...right after d-day... he completely lost it.. he was as horrified as I was about the LTA... I don't know how thats possible to be just sleepwalking through your life that way... going through the motions without any thought or introspection but thats what it appears to have been like for him...
because he went NC with her immediately and never broke it.and he stopped drinking , went to IC for almost 2 yrs, went to AA ... for the 90 meetings in 90 days..and still continues to attend AA today...
because he stopped drinking he also stopped hanging out with most of his toxic friends, and he had coincidentally retired from his lifelong job a month before d-day...
so...basically after d-day EVERYTHING changed...
he changed drastically and he was extremely remorseful, begging for forgiveness and pleading to come home...
he did after 6 months...
he makes me feel special every day... he is over the top when it comes to flowers, gifts, jewelry, dinners out, dates, trips, you name it and he only wants to spend time with me,is extremely affectionate in both words and actions...
he insists that he will spend the rest of his life making it up to me...
so, these are the reasons why I decided to reconcile...
now.. some may ask... if everything is so wonderful why are you still on SI after all this time? well... for me d-day was definitely an extremely traumatic experience..
Ats is reading PISD by Ortman right now..and the author describes the personality type of those that are the most traumatized by infidelity.... I have most of the traits...
But, I do believe that all of us who have experienced LTAs are much more traumatized than other victims of infidelity.
It's a bigger wound to recover from.
and.. Allgood it will just take time...that and a lot of love, patience, and attention from your WS.
M3: I'm sorry for your pain. You said something about packing up your bedroom, but didn't say why.
I hope your WH wakes up and sees the pain that he is causing you.
Miracle: I do agree with you that it is probably a combination of the usual teenage stuff that they want to be independent plus they feel an underlying tension and don't really know what is happening or why (except your DD who knows) It is very painful to raise teens. We work so hard with them as babies and kids and then they get to be teens and "cop an attitude" and talk back. It hurts and the pain is more acute when you are going through all this pain yourself.
Another factor at play here is that kids have a radar, especially for their mother and a good mother like you. I am sure they sense your pain and unhappiness even though you are trying to hide it.
I wonder about the family therapist that just drops that "bomb" about the kids don't want to live with either one of you without discussing it further with you. Perhaps you can make an appointment, or call the therapist to discuss this further, especially since it is really causing you so much pain. I know I have called my IC in between sessions on 2 different occassions and she called back and talked for a few minutes. Please try this. Please continue to vent here. We are here for you.
the next threapy session will be with both boys because of their issues as of late with each other...she even asked if they could separate and get their own rooms...i don't want that, i want them to learn how to get along...although if manchild continues on his destructive physical path i may have to rethink this one somehow!!!i just don't know how...oh well...too late to think this hard...
honest you sound good...not posting much but you sound good....i hope its not a front my friend!!
As for their own rooms, if you can swing it, I think it would be a good option. Perhaps they can learn to get along better with each other if they each have their own space and time away from each other! KWIM? My boys were alway spatting, and having thier own rooms was better. It was something they could call their own.
Just something to think about.
The joys of boys!!!!
I completely agree about the A being able to break open your life. I was on a downward spiral pre-DDay myself, most reasons had to do with my H - I felt alone & I felt used & unappreciated and I was sad and I lashed out at everyone out of frustration. So, for that I'm grateful to have learned about the A when I did, because it opened my eyes to a lot of things. I see the bigger picture now.
Anyway, I am at a point now where I literally do not care to talk to him during the day, do not care to spend time with him and do not really enjoy his company. And, while he certainly hasn't had the kind of revelation that your H did, he has been kind and more attentive and he has given up going out socially, for the most part. Truth is, we grew apart a lot over the years. I have definitely matured more than he. I also may have aged faster than him, because I really just need to get 8 hours of sleep now. Lol. And, his behavior during the A really did a lot of damage. Once I found out about the A - well, a lot has happened, but lately (like the last 2-3 months) it's more like I am pushing thru, going thru the motions in the hopes that maybe my lack of any real passion for him is a product of my reaction to the A or something. It's hard to explain, but, for example - last night we were having a few drinks with his sister. Now, I like his sister very much, and my H's behavior was just fine - he was funny, etc., but I couldn't get lost in the experience - I didn't think my H was as funny as she seemed to think and in general wasn't able to enjoy myself. I just kept thinking tomyself that while I am very attached to my H and I really, really, don't want to see him with someone else, I don't seem to have "those" feelings anymore. I'm trying to fake it til I make it, but my H definitely notices - like last night - he asked me if there was something I was mad about.
I still see the progress in my own recovery, I just don't know if this relationship is salvagable. (And Tryn if you are there - don't freak out- I still remember everything you've said- and I'm giving it some time and maybe something will snap with us both when we start going thru Not Just Friends together.)
Well, I'm going out for the balance of the day. I hope everyone had fun. I'll just have to be surprised when I wake up tomorrow and see all the posts I missed...
Ciao for now brown cows.
I was downloading skype for H so he could see his grandchild and decided to check out his browsing history. I clicked on the last 2 weeks and all the web pages he visited were listed. He googled the OW and then did a reverse listing for her cell phone number. He was looking at adultfriendfinder, eharmony, singleparents, classmates.com WTF?
I can't confront him he's sick. I'm boiling though. What would you do? I'm not thinking straight or rather I can't at this moment in time.
Between him being sick and now this, I feel like I've been hit with a bucket full of shit!
End of vent!!!
Please vent here.
OK. I understand that you are hesitant because WH is sick right now.
How long did WH know about the tumor? Was it more than 2 weeks or not?
Is it possible he was deleting his info on those sites? Is there any way to check if he still has profiles on these sites?
The reason I'm asking because perhaps WH came face to face with his own mortality. Perhaps he was making sure he deleted all profiles (if any) on those sites.
I am so sorry Nofun. I know you must be steaming!!!! I guess you will have to wait until WH gets a little better and you have to have a long talk with him. Looking for OW's #? NC is NC, even if in his own mind he gives you the excuse because she is a nurse and wanted to ask her questions.
WH went through stent procedures before dday and I found out he was calling OW from his hospital bed and I'm the one taking care of him!!! I understand your anger and hurt!
Please keep venting here. You are in my prayers!!
I am speechless about your husband's actions over the past 2 weeks! Could it have beendue to his feeling like his life could be over? and instead of focusing on his wife and family and wanting to spend his last moments with them he decides that he wants to spend his time with sex addicts and sluts that he meets online? as well as falling back on his OW?
I am so sorry.
Sick or not sick..it sounds as if he has not committed to saving his marriage....and.. That he doesn't respect you and his family...
Do you think he's a sex addict?
Or do you think his behavior now is due to the fact that the affair was so long term...
I know my husband was VERY detached during the 5 yr LTA...and in turn I reacted to his detachment by withdrawing from him...so basically, it was a toxic situation...
In your case his affair went on for 12 yrs...it seems as if he has forgotten what it means to be faithful and monogamous...
and..he certainly has no appreciation for how much sacrifice that will be required on your part to nurse him back to health.
What are you thinking, feeling, now?
What do you think you will do?
Could he seriously be so stupid as to fail to conceal his efforts - to just leave it like that? Weird.
Assuming that's not the case - I am really just at a loss, because I thought your H & you were really making progress (despite your recent feelings).
(Men close your eyes): I hope he's done with his catheter, cuz he is in a dangerous predicament if you ask me...
God bless you. Seriously. sick or not, I would not be able to sit on this. Once the catheter is out I'd show him the browsing history and see what he's got to say.
Think about what you are going to say as far as responses go. Personally, I've decided from now on, I'm reserving judgment on all issues. I'm not saying what's a deal breaker or not - I'm just taking it all in...
Even with a breachin NC of this nature - I've always said it would be a deal breaker - then I accepted my H after he broke NC because it was so close to DDay but if I found he broke NC this far into R it would be a different thing. One thing I've learned is that you never really know how you are going to feel until it actually happens.
In this regard - this is something like what my H said when I asked him "Didn't you ever think about what would happen if you got caught?" He said he thought I would divorce him. So, that made me sad - like he accepted it, but then he said, but it's different when it's actually happening.
Please check in. I'm worried for you - even your vent worries me - it was not ventish enough!
H has his own notebook and I have my own laptop. At first I was thinking that maybe it was me googling the OW or doing a reverse number search but after I thought about it, I wouldn't have done it on his computer and certainly not in the last two weeks. H has known about the tumor for 2 weeks.
When I viewed the web pages he visited it blatantly shows whose name he put into the search engine. And then he did a reverse number lookup. My gut is telling me he was looking for her on social websites. He probably did not have success because I have looked a hundered times and she is no where to be found on the internet. He also surfs the web while he is in work, he takes his notebook to work with him.
H is not good with computers so he doesn't realize that the browsing history is there. I could look back for 36 weeks and there are no other red flags except in the last two weeks. Maybe I need a key logger?
If he is calling OW, it's at work. I would never know. I check his cell phone records periodically and nothing on there. My gut is telling me he did not contact OW but that he is fishing for her. So what will he do next? The trust was down the drain to begin with and just when I thought he was coming around!!! Grrr
He has been with me almost 24/7 since dday. The only time he is not with me is when he's at work.
What I'm thinking is that either he was just fishing, or he wanted to contact her because of his medical problem, (she's a nurse)or he is just missing her. I can't accept any of it right now.
He's in no condition to confront at this moment in time. He's in bad shape. I'm all stressed out to begin with, emptying catheters, changing and cleaning catheters, helping him get dressed, getting his meals, dispensing meds, etc.
allgood - I already know what he'll tell me when I show him the browsing history, he'll tell me he has no idea how it got there and that he didn't do it. Once a liar always a liar. I'll be surprised if he admits it.
I really don't know what to do at this point. I guess I've got some time to think about it. The key logger sounds good though. Wouldn't that tell whether he signed up at those social sites? I think it will even let you know user names and passwords. I guess I'll have to research that now.
My stomach is in knots. Suggestions are welcomed on how you would handle this because my mind is out in left field right now.
I could puke!!
fun i am so sorry that you are going through all of this bullshit...
when people are faced literally with their own possible mortality in such a way they react in ways that are not only inappropriate but insane...its like they cannot handle the fact that they may die...he may have been looking for her for a couple of reasons....but he is looking and not doing...important difference there...it could be anything from curiosity to the worst...
but what does not make sense is, doesn't he already know her number, why would he need to do a reverse search.....
or maybe he's heard shit about her and is looking to see if its true...
the point is, it could be anything...i do hope that when you confront he tell you all....
i would not have what it takes to stay quiet...
gotto go...my company has awakened...
I agree with Miracle - if he's looking up her number - he hasnt been in contact with her? (As an aside - why would she have changed her number? Unless she wants nothing to do with him & changed it?)
I know nothing about the keylogger - so I can't help you there.
I'm thinking of you.