so much goin on...
fun: i cannot believe your h's reaction...i am so sorry...i really think its time to pull a bit on that catheter..
ats: i am glad that you are working onthe marriage..it is necessary, but the marriage issues and affair issues are separate entities...and it seems as though you wife is having trouble distiguishing them...she also apparantly blames you in the marriage using that as an apparent "reason" for going outside the marriage for her needs...
and i know this is wrong but on some level i can understand how easy it could be, if you have a partner who is really not a partner and your needs are not getting met at all...i was in that marriage..only i was the one who didn't get any needs met at all...and i still didn't cheat...although i never put myself in that position...i still felt as awful as he was that he loved me...if i for a second believed that he didn't love me it might have been a different scenario...
i don't think any of our ws's were capable of loving us the way we deserved and the way that was our right...when you marry someone you are entitled to be loved...its basic marriage 101...love, honor and cherish...stepping out is not doing any of those things...ah well...
allgood and fun...i think you should both when able, book the retrovaille program...when mr fun is physically able and a ababysitter for the allgood something proarranged...if for nothing else it is something proactive...you really have nothing to lose by trying...if anything you both will be afforded an opportunity to say all that you need to say...
Do your husbands ever talk about such things, or do you ever notice this?
My husband doesn't talk about any of it at all.
But my oldest DS mentioned OW's kids first thing when we got to the beach on vacation because the place reminded him of the place we used to vacation with them, and lo and behold, my WH was grumpy for the whole vacation.
So, yes, I think this probably happens to him.
i don't think any of our ws's were capable of loving us the way we deserved and the way that was our right...
iwam, in my case you are entirely correct. The question is, with her new insights, IC, MC, and time, can she love me (or any adult) in an emotionally intimate relationship?
FWW does fall back to the M versus A position when she is feeling defensive or reactive, she did last week. She understands the difference, but the old tapes have worn deep grooves in both of our personalities over the last 20 years. She will admit that she still struggles with this. I also understand that while she can look back now and see much of her anger was due to misperceptions and avoiding discussions that would lead to conflict, she still has two decades of hurt, anger, and resentment that were very real for her.
Let me tell you... What you want, you will get through this program... I know it.
Did I tell you 80% that go through it are R'd?
Did I tell you 80% that go through it are R'd?
I am thinking of signing up for a Retrou in October here in Texas....
Tryn... is it too soon for WH and me to try one of these sessions? DDay was just 3 weeks ago and WH is still working with MOW (NC letter has been written and sent)..
What do you think?
I think you all know how dearly I love my WH and my little family, but if he's not for proving he's with me, then he's against me. I can't take this limbo anymore, and Miracle is right, at 35 I'm too young to stay for the kids. Baby Paddy is a NEWBORN for crying out loud. I probably wouldn't even get 18 years for a major felony in this day and age ...
Action must be taken and it's not my choice, but my gut, what we always go with here, tells me that he wants this M and just isn't "getting" it.
And I'm not saying there is never a possibility for R -- but if I walk into a lawyers office I am 100% going through with a D and if we ever R'ed it would never be a civil marriage again. Though, ironically, the church would still consider us married.
I believe that it makes sense to try and R for the kids, but not to just stay together for their sake. I think you are right in your approach.
I am sorry for you that you are not getting the cooperation and participation that you need.
I am so early in my situation that I am most likely NOT the right person to offer advice.
Sending my love your way, though.
I know that ALL i have right now is three things to keep me moving towards possible R...
NC with enforced boundaries
IC for both of us
...and ALL OF THIS with accountability....
If I don't enforce accountability with my WH on these things NOW, then I truly must accept that I am the one allowing these things to happen to me and can no longer hold my WH solely responsible...
I know we all have choices on how we let people treat us...
...and you are WORTH the effort!!!!
H, I need something in my life. I need a different kind of intimacy. I want this intimacy with you. I want us to love each other like we did when we first met. I am still hurt, afraid and angry in our marriage. I have problems that I cannot seem to overcome on my own. I’m asking you to please help me overcome my problems and attend a program called Retrouvaille. It is a Catholic based program but they don’t try to make you turn to that faith. There will be prayers when we arrive and leave. They use a method called Dialogue where both you and I will learn to change the way we communicate. It is a safer and closer way. It will help us move into a deeper, truer, more mature love. It reports a 80% successful rate to make a better marriage. We don’t share anything with anyone during this program, just you and I. I want to do this. I want you to do this with me. I am not going to force, beg or demand you do this. You will tell me yes or no. You don’t even need to tell me your reasons either way. I want you to go on your own desire to want to do this with me. It requires 2 nights with no cells, no contact with the outside world, no kids. We pay what we can. It has followup weekends that we can decide later if we want to attend. This is the weekend date ??. Will you do this with me and try hard at it?
OK ladies.. That’s it for now! No more sales job… lol That’s all I got.
Let it be… I don’t know. I think you would be OK. We attended 11 months post dday. I think timing was good for me. While waiting to go, I called an attorney to see what it takes to D. I had my new checking set up, forms ready filled out separating our checking, sold stocks for cash to split… Iwant was here to “soothe” me about at that time… lol… I wore this mask back then acting positive but It was not cutting it. Inside I was really hurting. During our July vacation, I really thought about throwing myself over a balcony. It was horrible as I think about it today. How do you feel right now? How often does this consume you? At one month, I bet it consumed me at least 95% of my thinking. My W and I went through some HB and that was good.
AST… Your W is gonna have to handle triggers too… This week’s Example…So my friend came in from out of town and stayed over this week. He was telling us a story about his new GF. She has been S for about a year now. Her H had an A throughout the whole M… 5 years I think. My friend was questioning how in the world could someone do that to a person? Said her H was “not right”. As he was talking, I felt sadness and some uneasiness and wondered what my W was thinking. Was she thinking bad thoughts about herself? She didn’t say a word. I asked him what he thought about dating a M’d woman… he said she was now going to file the D since they started dating. Hummm… Anyway, I hope you can get through this anger better than I handled it..
m3.. hugs to you..
[This message edited by trynhard at 11:51 AM, August 12th (Thursday)]
m3: think it through carefully, remember the path of least regret...divorcing may be that path, but only you can decide that...you are the one who has to live with it...i think your kids are young enough to adjust to a divorce if that is the route you take....it will be growing up with so in affect it will be all they know...
How do you feel right now? How often does this consume you? At one month, I bet it consumed me at least 95% of my thinking.
Tryn ~ Well, I feel hopeful and at the same time still needing answers? Does that make sense.
I truly believe in the Grace of God and in my ability to forgive my WH. I guess after recovering from my abuse as a child what I am looking for is change/repentance from my WH. He has always had difficulty communicating anything to anyone (falls back on lies to make himself feel better about his behaviors) and has some FOO issues that WH is finally willing to discuss with IC.
Wow, it consumes me any moment that I am not keeping myself busy with something else. And even in those times I trigger over many things (this event has triggered my PTSD from 30+ years of varying abuse from my FOO - (sexual,physical,emotional/verbal, neglect) that I have been managing to some degree in recent years.
I am in a place of wanting tools to help us move forward and I believe WH is in that place, but is fearful of addressing his issues (which led to his life of lies to everyone and his rationalization for his affair)... Phew! I guess I should have WH ask his IC if IC thinks it would be good for WH? I just know you have BTDT and appreciate your feedback!!! :)
And, yes, WH and I have done HB... everynight since 3 days in (after STD test came back negative) until about 2 days ago...
Now I'm just angry...
Because I want what happened to have meaning and be able to let God do something wonderful with it as I know HE will. I just don't want to let go of the "perceived control" I have that it should be for our M to heal. That is something WH and I have to do with Gods strength, mercy and grace...
ARGH... long...sorry y'all...
feel like I should be doing more than I am... same old 'fixer' in me coming out.. should go call my IC...
HEY, HUGS to all you other TRIBE members! I lurk and read but I can't keep up with all of you now that I'm getting older
Discouraged, but I'll live...
We watched "The Notebook" last night because a friend told my H that it reminded him of H's parents. And it did. I cried through the whole movie, having a pity party for myself because I never felt I had someone love me that deeply.
Today my H said he couldn't stay to the end of the movie because it was too emotional for him. (even though he didn't any emotion AT ALL) He said it did remind him of his parents and the way they loved each other so deeply.
Then he said "that will be us". I said "too late". You ruined that. I will never have the same feelings for you ever again. I really meant it. I guess I'm still incredibly angry.
I told him that I don't believe he loves me.
I am so hurt. And when he shuts down, it hurts even more.
The catheter is coming out tomorrow and we will find out if there is any other treatment for the bladder cancer. I am such a horrid person. I wished him dead again tonight! And I imagine myself alone and "happy" in my home.
Sorry.....I didn't mean to be so long winded.
He said he never stopped loving me. I don't believe that.
FWW says that too, now. I know it is not true. She left me to suffer when she lied in 2007 and moved to the next OM.
Then he said "that will be us".
WOW not at the level of effort he appears to be exerting to R.
I read throught the healing library again this afternoon. There is a lot of good stuff in there, I had forgotten.
FWW and I have a fun weekend planned with a favorite blues singer at a waterfront bar Saturday and the boat out Sunnday for the sunset and meteors. I hope nothing changes our plans, it should be fun.
You have every right to feel extremely angry, but I feel that because of the situation right now with the cancer that you also feel guilty for that anger and the normal feelings of wishing him dead because you are so angry!!
I am not excusing your WH at the moment, but I would take anything he says or does right now with a grain of salt. He was selfish before with the A, I am sure he is feeling selfish now because he's scared because of the cancer scare and faced with his own mortality. He probably isn't capable of even being compassionate for your feelings right now, although on the other hand, he should be faced with what's really important.
I don't know if I'm making any sense.
Just know, that you are in my prayers. Please try to get some help in the house to take care of WH and yourself.
M3: I hope things are going better with you, keep posting and venting.
When I read about Tryn and Retrovaille, I wish I had that option. From what he is saying about it, I think it's worth a try, no matter what. It can't hurt and only be beneficial, if only for yourselves.
ETA: I am finding that having a support group or friends other than your spouse is essential to your well being. I gave my all to my M. Because of circumstances and travelling overseas so much, I lost a lot of friends. My world revolved around my WH and kids.
My mother always said that you cannot do everything with one person. Your spouse is important, but you cannot expect them to want to do EVERYTHING you like to do, like maybe watching sports on TV for the guys or shopping for the gals. (just an example) She always said that you can have different friends for different things: one to talk with, one to exercise with, etc.
I had lost all that over the years for various reasons, people moved away, I became a SAHM for a while, etc etc.
I try to share gems from my wonderful, nutty neighbor. She's a character, but I like nutty characters with a good heart any day. She said of her first husband who she left because he was gambling, drinking, etc,
"He was a great date, but a lousy husband!!"
She makes me laugh, but has a heart of gold. My birthday is at the end of August and she bought us tickets to see "Menopause, the Musical". Lots of laughs!!
I am trying my best to see the good things I have, but still break down a lot during the day when triggers come unexpectantly and have to work to keep going.
I am just trying to survive. I start to get up, walk a little,but am so fragile still that when something happens, I fall to my knees again. A very dear friend said to me yesterday, "But you are getting up more quickly now."
I have to keep moving forward, although I keep feeling stagnated.
I wish I could go NC with WH and just move on. It would be so much easier.
I don't know if I love the real him, or the projected image of the NPD that he gave me. This is what I'm trying to reconcile now.
I finally figured out what was eating me up all week...an old story..I keep thinking I have put it to bed but I have not.
The bottom line is that I am most distressed over my own lack of awareness during the "empty" years.
I think I understand how he disconnected. I get his lack of love for me. I do not get mine for him?
I did not know he was not there. Where was I? Why did I not know? Was I disconnected also? We were living apart emotionally for years? How did I miss that ? What was my problem?
This is the unresolved part.
Self-deception- is literally a matter of deceiving oneself- and thus raises unique questions.
How can one deceive himself-unless he already knows-what it is that he is deceiving himself about?
The first time I called the MOW she said... " he loved only you" and I asked her what she was to him... she said they were just "very very good friends".
In an email she wrote to another co-worker months after d-day... when commenting on the LTA with my husband the MOW said...she thought they were "just having fun".
Who are these people?
A five year affair...and she meant NOTHING to him?
and apparently he didn't mean much to her either..it was just fun...
and total heartbreak for me and for her husband!
I guess I'm just really having a hard time wrapping my brain around how he could have been in this A and then poof! it's over and even though he sees her every day it doesn't mean anything to him. Of course, he was telling me *that* right after D-day and it turned out they were still talking to each other constantly but now, almost 15 months later, I have a measured sense of security that he is not in any contact with her outside of the brief email/meeting with others around. Still -- I just don't understand how he can just push her aside like this. If our positions were reversed -- and they never would be, because I would never have an A, I'd leave my M first -- but if they were, I would not be able to stand seeing the OP every day. Either it would remind me of the love I'd lost or of my stupidity and either way I would go insane.