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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 19
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, August 23rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura - welcome to our little corner of SI. The one sad fact is that you will read many similar stories here and yet in some way this is reassuring - you will know you are not alone and that we all understand what you are going through.
Miracle has given you some great advice (she has a tendency to be very good at that - in fact, I think she'd make an excellent C ).
To answer some of your questions, it does seem from what you've said that he is a seriel cheater and will need a great deal of C'ing in order to understand why he is unable to be faithful in M. Most of our FWS's have serious FOO issues and need to do intense C'ing in order to understand why they have made such horrendous choices in their life. Without this C'ing, I would fear that the risk of continuing this behavior would definitely be a concern. Insist on this for him and MC'ing for you both.
(((Laura)))

It's sad to see how LTA's affect the whole family, not just the BS's. Does anybody else have these issues with their children? or adult children?

NoFun - Initially my children all had difficulties with respect toward my H but I think as they saw him working very hard in C'ing and MC'ing and saw real changes in him they were able to soften toward him and actually feel sorry for him. It's so strange too, because on one hand I'm happy that they are able to overcome their negative feelings toward him and have regained a level of respect as well but on the other, well, on bad days I get pissed . I feel like he got off too easy. But I do know with all my heart that this is best for them and so I bite my tongue when I am tempted to remind them. It is very rare that I bring anything up to them about their father's A. Only occasionally I will ask how they are doing and if they have any questions or issues they need to discuss.
I would ask your DD what you or your H can do to help her with this. It must be very painful for her and it sounds like she would benefit from a little C'ing to help her overcome her anger. (((NoFun & DD)


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:04 AM, August 23rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn and fnf:

is it ok with me?...it has to be, i just don't want to know about it, like all these years i didn't know about it....and of course it hurts, unlike him, my love doesn't die that easily...but thankfully it is dying, but its a slow torturous death....would be so much easier if it was on impact...but if it were on impact it wouldn't have been real....but really how real could it have been i didn't love the real pfm, the pfm that i loved is fake, made up, a figment of my imagination...the real pfm is standing up now, sort of...i would guess that since he is still lying that he is still not showing all of who he is....unless he is defined as a liar and nothing more, which is really sad...especially for my kids...

me moving on: i will move on, and i will have to be discreet as i have asked him to be, i will be discreet not for him but for my kids, this is not a message i want to send...but i am not sacrificing all of me, just a few years to be able to give my kids every chance to be all they can be....and to reconcile with their dad, which will help them more then they could ever realize in the future...

we all bring our past hurts with foo into our future relationships...if those hurts can be resolved to a certain level, then when we bring them, we bring them already having grown from the experience and not seeking to still heal from it.....

how long?....not sure, but definitely til scrawny boy graduates high school, he is entering 20th grade...after that, we will see....

financially, not only will my life change but so will my kids, to the point that if we split now, we will probably have to sell this house and move...and i will not be able to afford to keep them where we are now, so my kids will lose everything they know....at least the boys will, dd is beginning college, so her school life will stay intact...and along with school life is friends....

i cannot be responsible to do that to my kids....however if pfm returns to the horrible monster he was...then i will do what i have to do and throw his ass out...there are new boundaries in place for this co-habitation...

the boundaries i originally set out for the marriage he never kept...one of them being honest...no more lies...that is a dealbreaker...and break it he did...

so for now this is my life...i will sacrifice to a certain extent for my kids, he has this opportunity to repair what he's done...this is a gift that he will probably blow...but it is an opportunity i feel i have to give him for my kids....

in this arrangement the only people who are miserable are me and pfm...i don't give a rats ass for his misery, he reaped it, and i will be more miserable if my kids have to endure all of what would go with a divorce at this stage of the game...and i would be devastated for manchild who need the repairation more then anyone...i do not know how that child would react...and i couldn't live with it if he did something so stupid in reaction...teenager do that, especially teenager who are already having issues...

i will do it for as long it takes, or as long as i can....and i still go to ic to help me deal with it all...and so far, my c, and the family c are not in favor of this arrangement, but are supportive of my decision....

thank you for listening and for reaching out to me...i appreciate the honesty, the concern and the love...keep it coming..


and i really am getting better, i process all these things much faster now, and once i completely detach it will be a piece of cake..


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, August 23rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

'morning all, now I am really awake I was up at O'dark thirty to help ensure DS made the 6:15 am bus for his first day at HS today.

iwam, I think the clock is ticking on how long you can sustain the status quo. I do not believe that it is sustainable until all of your children are out. I worry for you. I see you as driving an emotional bus with leaking and contaminated oil. It is commendable that you are trying to complete your route before shutting down for repairs, but you may do irreparable damage in the process. Your children and grandchildren are going to need a healthy bus for a longtime. Start thinking about where and when you can get that old oil changed out, some fresh put in, and a new filter to boot.

Laura28, welcome. Not much to add except like us, you are apparently married to a person with an empty bucket of validation. He cannot fill it himself; so he tries to have it filled by others. You were not able to fill it for him because thee buckets all have holes in them. Nobody can fill them, at least not in a sustainable way. He needs to figure out why he needs external validation instead of self-affirmation. That will plug the hole and he can begin to fill the bucket himself and feel good about himself. Any extra validation you or others add at that point is just “extra”. As for not know for all this time, you trusted him, as you rightly should. We BS cannot accept blame for being trusting prior to dday.

Fgnf, the trip to her parents is in a month. Our dday is 10/5, DS’s birthday.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, August 23rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ATS - I loved both of your analogies today - great job!
Looks like you're giving Honest some real competition in this area . I love her analogies too.
What do you think Honest??

Miracle - forgot to send some mojo for your DD's test drive today - keep us posted. Loved it when each of my children got their license - certainly frees up a lot of time for us moms.
And for the record, you can always count on lots of love and concern from me and all of us. Just let us know when you need some extra hugs and you'll get plenty.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, August 23rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

forgive and forget..

NJG - I hope you don't mind but I wanted to make a correction here. I'm forgiveNOTforget. I have vowed to myself never to forget what my H has done, not as a means of punishment to him but as a warning to myself to never again give him my full and complete trust. I know others may not agree with this approach, but for me it feels like a safety measure. It is the one remaining wall that I keep in place to protect myself from being duped again.

Tryn - I know you love that passage from Eat Pray Love and I know it's more of a chick flick but I was wondering if you planned to see it. My Mom and I went the other day and there was another line (that I don't remember reading in her book) that I loved. I'm paraphrasing here because I couldn't write it down in the dark theater, but it went something like this:
"Out of ruin comes transformation." I loved this line because it made me think of all of us here on this board. Our Ms as we knew them were destroyed on d-day and yet, given the proper care and rebuilding we have the opportunity to transform them into something wonderful. It takes a great deal of effort, love, determination and yes forgiveness but we can transform the ruin that resulted from our FWS's LTAs. I wish this for all of us, in whatever form that transformation will take in each of our lives.
Hugs to the tribe!!!

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 8:29 AM, August 23rd (Monday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, August 23rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf...i dont know about them car analogies...i just get in and drive...the rest is greek to me...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:30 AM, August 23rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TrynHard,

When I say never a "good" M, I am basing that on what FWW says to me. "When were we ever friends?", "as soon as we all moved in after the honeymoon"

Yes I cooked the meals, she silently seethed over why I had to make such a big deal over having all sit down for supper together when they could just grab a snack.

She went on the boat with me, but only because she felt obligated. Despite my suggestions, she always sat up forward and the pounding hurt her back.

It would be my bet that all these years your W physically loved you too..

She began to withdraw from me sexually within 6 months of being married. For most of our M sex once a week was considered frequent. A couple times a month was more typical, and for the A time it was a couple times a year or never (with me). She said after menopause she had no drive, did not enjoy it, it hurt.

For all of our M, up to the last week, maybe continuing, FWW has told me what she thought I wanted to hear. She has not wanted to appear weak or needy.

You are right Tryn, my fear is gone.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, August 23rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf...i dont know about them car analogies...i just get in and drive

ROTFLMAO Too funny!!
Btw,
Your children and grandchildren are going to need a healthy bus for a longtime.

I hope ATS realizes that you're really a mini bus - at least from everything you and others have posted about your size.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, August 23rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hope ATS realizes that you're really a mini bus -

I said driving the bus, not that she was a bus. Embarassed at my unintended potential insult. What I had envisioned in the analogy as I crafted it was one of the sleek new hybrid busses we have running around here.

yuck, I would not have guessed my foot tasted that bad. I will be taking it out of my mouth now.

Typical FWW event this am. I left my phone at home. She called to tell me she had time and could bring it to me if I wanted her to. I was on another line and could not take her call, she had left by the time I could call. Why would she not have just brought the phone out? Why the bring it out if you want me to?

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 8:47 AM, August 23rd (Monday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, August 23rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats ats ats...forget the semantics on that one...she is trying in her own inept way to please you...sometimes i can understand the wording gets us up in knots..hell its how i caught lots of lies...but on something this trivial...look at the thoughts....we have already established quite well at this point that words, or communication is not your wifes strong suit..


and for what its worth i disagree with tryn on how chores are done for love for you...mostly things are done because they have to get done,...there is no love in it if your heart is elsewhere...

and yes i am a mini... ..and proud of it...and don't worry ats i got that part of me driving it...its the filters and oil that got me


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, August 23rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I said driving the bus, not that she was a bus

Oops - now my turn to be embarrassed. I reread your post and saw my mistake.
She called to tell me she had time and could bring it to me if I wanted her to.

Sounds to me like she is feeling a little insecure and just wanted to let you know she was trying - that's my feminine take on it anyway. I think it's a good thing!


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, August 23rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WOOHOO....DD PASSED HER ROAD TEST!!!


why am i scared too!!!


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, August 23rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WOOHOO....DD PASSED HER ROAD TEST!!!

Kids and the driving tests reminds be of It's a Wonderful Life; except for X-mas bells and angles wings, everytime a child gets a licenses a sedan looses a fender, or bumper, or clean interior, or ...

Anyway,, congratulations, I do know that is can be useful to have the kids be able to transport themselves and run errands.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, August 23rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hi Laura. Welcome. I'm kind of useless lately so I can't add much at the moment.

How did you find out? That might answer some of your ow questions.

Miracle -- what cruddy weekend you had! I had a friend who had a countdown calendar for her retirement -- maybe you should have one for your youngest's HS graduation -- your "retirement" from your M...


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, August 23rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats. I totally understand the part about your W grabbing bits from several discussions and then using all that to justify her bad feelings. Has she always been toward the negative side about most things? You have stated that she is on anti-depress meds. Did those ever really help? Much of the way she acts reminds me of my W. Dealing with someone who is so messed up is very hard. I know this for a fact.

Tribe. All this talk about big bus, mini-bus, and road tests is giving me a urge to take a road trip.

I have and will be thinking about everyone.
Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, August 23rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3: what an interesting perspective thanks...see you do have stuff to offer...i like it very much...

ats: too funny...and that i think is why i am scared..

o.k. part of my visit on saturday: keep your hats on, the story is complicated, right out of a soap opera called my early start:

my parents meet, fall in love and marry

somewhere when i was appx 3 years old, my dad tells my mom that he doesn't think he loves her anymore, he loves her sister...

mom tells her sister that her husband has a crush on her, please do not encourage him...

dad leaves mom for aunt

dad marries aunt who is now divorced with 3 kids (my cousins)

dad and aunt have a child together

one of aunts children, my cousin L, was sort of like my best friend growing up, we had a huge split when we reached teenhood over the different perspectives of our parents marriage...

dad and aunt told aunts kids that both had already divorced and comforted each other over the lost marriages and fell in love...a bit of a stretch...

fast forward...to dd communion 10 years ago, dad gets news he has 6 months to live...my cousin L and i reconcile sort of with the impending loss of our dad, she was 3ish when her mom married my dad, so he really was her dad...more her's then mine...

we keep in touch now through the years since, fastforward to 3 years ago...dad died, his 6 months lasted 7 years....and now we get closer then we had been...

i "see" at the wake and funeral the real love my aunt had for my dad, when i was at my dad's deathbed, hours before he died, all he wanted was his wife..they really did love each other...

fastforward to sat...this aunt who is grandma to my kids, and they know the story, gives me this bag, she is only now going through all the stuff he had and she had...she couldn't deal with it til now...she gives me a bag of stuff from my dad and his family...yesterday i finally opened the bag and what do i find, among some of the pictures was a picture of my mother and father when they were happily married at the copacabana....wtf that does that mean....!!!!

and i do have a memory of my very drunk dad coming to visit me, i was 8 or 9ish and i had gone to bed and my mother put him on the sofa bed to sleep it off, i remember him asking her for kisses...and i think she did, because then i heard him say his puppy gives better kisses...at that she told him to go home and kiss his puppy...so im thinkin she just pecked him to shut him up...but who knows...

so much for closure on this shit... i guess i will never know the story....or the feelings behind all of it....so now my own history...i will never know so many answers...seems to be the story of my life...

but i am ok with that...because i do not need to know all thats past to move forward, sure it would help make sense of what has already transpired, but i cannot change all that, i could only learn to live in the present and for the future...

sorry for the long ramble...it just kind of blew me a bit away...not a big bit, a little bit...

thanks for listening if you listened and it ok if you skipped it, just needed to get it out...no need to comment either like i said just needed to get it out...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, August 23rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Has she always been toward the negative side about most things?

yes, one of my clear memories from early in our relationship was that she ALWAYS presumed that something bad would happen, someone would think poorly of her, etc. Up until that point in my life I was a true optomist. Nothing truly bad had ever happened too me. Life was not perfect, but it was good and things worked themselves out. I lost that in my M, I am getting it back, slowly.

She got the AD's originally as a part of a trial on using them for weight loss. I do not know if they are helping or not, but we can be having a bad time and she will mention not having taken her Wellbutrin for a while During her A's she took a lot of Xanax and drank a lot too. The drinking is moderating, but it still seems to me like she goes through them pretty fast. She also knows all the tricks, like biting and crushing the Xanax or Ambien to get it into the system faster. I picked up a Xanax prescription after we shifted to D, and I keep tabs on it.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, August 23rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle - first - congrats to you and DD on passing the test. ATS' comment was too funny. It's good to see him laughing again!
Now to your story. What a sad thing for you and all your siblings to go through. I can see now why it is so important for you to do your best to keep your family together.
You didn't mention your Mom much in your story. Did she ever remarry? Did she remain bitter about the awful thing her sister did to her and about your dad's leaving? How is she today?
(Sorry, I have so many questions ) Does she know about pfm and how does she help you now if she does know?
I think one of the hardest things to do as a parent who has been betrayed is to not bash our S in front of our children. I had so much difficulty with this in the early months. I just wanted to tell them all the time what a bastard he was but had to keep reminding myself that it was still their father and they needed to continue to love and respect him for their own well-being.
Anyway, sending a few more hugs to you today just in case you need them.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, August 23rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dip we cross posted...we do alot of that here don't we


forgot to compliment you on your new word, i did notice...

and a road trip sounds good, come on up to new york...i gots a bus, right ats..


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, August 23rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats is having a great day at work. I am the founding director of my department in my organization. I left a large and diverse program to come here for the chance to build from the ground up. I have a vision of a different way of doing things. Less bureaucratic, more decentralized. I have had some minor success, planted many seeds, and been frustrated that I have not been able to adequately communicate my vision. Today one of my seed sprouted like a weed. In a business where my peers typically force their way in and order people around, my department is being invited in and asked for help! This is just in one narrow area, but it validates what I have been trying to do. Staff who have wanted to “go traditional” on me now see the benefits of this approach.

FWW is chatty today, many phone calls about work, DS @ college and texts. We need to do this, tonight we will do that, let’s plan a trip to X. Eighty hours ago, she could not say any positive reason why we should stay together. We had screamed at each other, she threatened me with the police; she called me emotionally unstable and a raving lunatic. This from a person following me around screaming at me and hiding all the glassware in the bottom of the garbage can.

iwam, that was a very moving story. I am nosy now and wonder the same questions as fgnf.

So sad reading iwam talk about drunk parents, FWW talk about it, other posts. I was really very lucky. My parents enjoyed drinking with friends, but the worse I ever got was a chatty father who flirted with my mother in front of us.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
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