Oh crap did a double clicker...
[This message edited by trynhard at 4:10 PM, August 23rd (Monday)]
tryn. Maybe tonite you will do another double clicker. And a double good luck to that.
Hugs to the tribe.
How's about instead of "I win"
You clearly communicated a dealbreaker boundary and your WS complied?
There, that sound more clincal.
he is pissed
I thought it was ws u/w that was pissed, as in pissed in?
There, that sound more clincal.
he is pissed
I thought it was ws u/w that was pissed, as in pissed in?
loved your entire post, even gave me a smile i needed since he was at it again...being pissed..
tryn: doin laundry, very cool...so much laundry talk today...
ah boundaries, the man doesn't seem to honor any... ...he does make this more difficult...but i am ok tonite...i am accepting my sich in increments...and i guess this is the laundry increment...now whether or not the dirty laundry will have to be washed out again here remains to be seen...
sorry about the bipolar reference... just wondered about ats' wife's ups and downs in terms of mood swings etc....
I didn't take notes, but just off the top of my head:
NJgal: I hope you are having a great vacation.
FNF: You always have such wise, thoughtful, insightful, and caring posts.
Miracle: I am so sorry to read your post. What a painful thing for your family to go through. God bless your mother, she has tremendous caring and strength.
So....you listened to me after all and pfm is doing his own laundry?
You are going through a lot of pain right now.
I am sorry, but I don't think the arrangement you are talking about in being "discrete" will work. This is a lack of respect, and this is something that is necessary if you guys are co-parenting and co-habiting. I wish there was something I could advise that would make it all better. Just giving you hugs.
Ats: The analogies are great. I really like how you described your WW and the lost little girl inside her. It really captures her behavior that you have written about very well. I think you always sensed that little girl was there, although you didn't really see her much until dday.
I agree that your WW just spews things out without thinking it through. Instead of sorting through her feelings mentally, she is verbalizing all her thoughts and feelings in a jumbled way... to sort them out as she is saying them.
I know I have been guilty of doing this from time to time. I can just have "verbal diarrhea" and put it all out and then sort it. Throw away the junk, the impulsive thoughts and feelings that intrude on us.
Possibly needing a reality check from a trusted loved one in doing so.
I could just suggest for you, Ats, that when your WW starts doing this, don't take everything she says so seriously as she is sorting out her feelings.
Possibly, you could suggest to her that she journal her feelings to help sort them out before she talks to you about something so serious and potentially hurtful.
Especially since the IC suggested WW lets you know her feelings?
Laundry? I showed the older boys how to use the machine the minute they complained about something not being washed. DS 12 knows how to use it and was showing DS 15 how to do it. WH is a lost cause. Mr. dishonest is so entitled, he has servants to do it overseas.
hugs to everyone.
I was sort of worried that I had gone way too far backwards in my progress towards R with my H and my H was also concerned We had been getting along exceptionally well and then it seemed suddenly to diminish.
I was able to connect it to a rather minor incident in which he choose to not to share some information with me. Rather, he did share it but not right away and when I asked him why he said he did not want me to push him about it.
I felt very upset about this and told him so as I am deeply wounded, as we all are, over having been on the outside of his life for so many years during the A's. It did not rise to the level of a lie of that magnitude but it did trigger those feelings in me.
Instead of my H simply saying that he could understand why I felt shut out, he became defensive and minimized. THIS never works and it sent me on a binge of feelings of being disconnected and not feeling safe for over 2 weeks!
I was finally able to connect the place in which it began and we were able to discuss it AND we were both tired of feeling more and more disconnected.
We discussed it the other night and he was able to validate my feelings and acknowledge that I WAS shut out for many years and have a right to feel overly sensitive to that when it comes up.
I was immediately in a much better place and am now beginning to feel close again. what a waste of time it is for him to minimize and not validate! It is so simple when he just validates my feelings and we do not lose any ground or any time.
I know he is learning because this had not happened for quite some time. he just digs his heels in some times and I suppose feels a need to be "right" about something.
Anyway, things are getting better again.
sounds as if everyone here is talking about laundry? LOL! I have not had time to catch up. Perhaps I will have time to read tomorrow.
Hope NJGAL is having fun. I gathered from my readings of a couple of pages that some have told their histories? Should be interesting..indeed.
Self-deception- is literally a matter of deceiving oneself- and thus raises unique questions.
How can one deceive himself-unless he already knows-what it is that he is deceiving himself about?
Last night I triggered over something FWW said. I told her and she was more defensive than supportive. Then (big mistake) I spent time reading and posting in JFO. By night I needed a Xanax. I got out of the shower and FWW said she wanted to give me a back rub. She did not ask if I wanted one, she told me she wanted to do it In the spirit of cooperation I told her I would be happy to accept. She brought me a short scotch, stroked my back and face and I drifted off to a great nights sleep.
I will have to go re-read my posts to remember why I am so upset with her.
honsettoafault, nice to se your post.
paperroses I am happy to read that you and your FWS resolved an issue.
Trust is tough. I really think I am beyond the betrayal of the M and the sex. What I am stuck on with my WW is the lack of trust. I am not able to accept that she is ever being honest. Of course, part of this is that she has not been honest about feelings and problems as recently as a week ago.
Are you sure you are from Australia? I did not see a single "G'day Mate" in your post. All of the Australians on television say that all the time.
The one from 16 yrs ago is horrified that I know and terrified that I'll tell her husband.
To tell or not is a tough question in this sich. She was not married to her H at the time she was the OW, but has she addressed the issue that made participating in infidelity OK? I would not tell just to hurt her. Wanting to hurt her gives her too much power. She is nothing. She is a sad person who was willing to share a man than find one of her own, and whom your WS used to try and address his neediness.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 9:05 AM, August 24th (Tuesday)]
did this event help change anything for you or your husband...often when we are faced with life altering events we change, we gain a "sight", we gain perspective where we had none before, and usually we find we know exactly what we now want in our most personal areas
i am sorry that the ow was your nurse...that had to be more then hard, but feel like your heart attack was really 2 fold...truly broken while breaking....wow
telling the ow's husband...i don't think you should out her, he was not her husband at the time of the pa, and she really didn't physically cheat on him...so really she didn't do anything wrong on that point
as for the ea...we as si'ers are savvy to an ea..the rest of the world..not yet...to them its just talking, which is a mindset to many...if i get it right this ea is now completely null and void...and she never crossed that line to the physical side, so obviously she has some boundaries....at least where her own marriage is concerned...
i don't think telling the man will do anything more then hurt him...and the ea is now over...so many of us have unconsious ea's , it can happen so easily without thought, without the gift of seeing what it actually is...she now does....so i would let it go...in this case i would let it go
its a shame that you had to find out so much on your own...that hurts the process...
if he has come clean about anything on his own it would not only help the process but serve him well towards rebuilding trust...not the blind trust, but the trust of someone who has worked hard to earn it...and it is possible, and it takes alot of work
i am glad that we didn't scare you off....(((laura)))
roses: welcome back...glad to hear that you were able to regroup, we all need to that here and there...
I will have to go re-read my posts to remember why I am so upset with her
maybe not.... ....you do seem to be so easy ats, doesnt take much to make you happy!!
....you do seem to be so easy ats, doesnt take much to make you happy!!
Wow, this statement really struck a nerve with me. Anger and frustration.
You are right, it does not take much to make me happy. I have shared this with WW over and over and over. A couple hugs a week, pleasant sex every week or so (maybe I wanted 2x a week years ago, but I am older now and the LexaPro took it toll), some time doing things together. Inviting me in rather than excluding me, put our relationship ahead of the kids, or work, or family. Honesty, be proud of me rather than point out my faults to your friends and family.
WW says she never knew how I felt, never knew how to please me. I told her these things over and over. I sent her articles explaining introversion. I went to all the MC we arranged and I participated actively. I tried to make something work. Let's never go to bed until an argument is settled, let's not do anything unless both agree, let's set up chores and allowance to teach the kids responsibility and how to manage money, what can I do for you to make you happy? You don't like a hug, what do you like? I facilitated her going to school for her Master's, I worked to establish what could have been a family business.
It all just came flooding back. I was trying so f*cking hard. Not all the time, maybe not consistently, but over 20 years I really tried.
o.k. here goes...gentle 2x4...
you accepted how she treated you
its now up to you to change what you accept and don't
she is not going to relearn overnite, within weeks or even within months...
mrs ats has some serious issues, deep issues, so on top of all that she needs to relearn with you she has to learn for the first time for herself...
she needs to fix herself before she can fix the marriage..she is still broken and incapable...
this is where ic, mc and possibly retrovaille come in to play...this is where she will gain the tools she needs...
remember she is the wounded little girl...she needs to be healed in the worst possible way then she can heal the marriage...
yes ats its a really long journey, and if you take that journey you will have lots of ups and downs...but at the end of this journey, the final destination will be a solvent marriage, and more then that a family that stays intact...and even more then that you will not have any regrets knowing that you gave it your all..
no promises though, because she is not healed doesn't mean that she gets a free ride, it does mean that she has to learn...and if she fails class after class in this school of life then you ats my friend, you take your walking papers, again with the knowledge that you gave it your all and you will have no regrets...
now this is also where as she is learning so need you too...to heal yourself and find things like boating to help you along the way...
im sorry ats, i really liked seeing you happy again...i know this is not my fault so dont go thinkin im blamin myself, not at all...just sorry that so little can set you back...i hate this shit, i really do...we is good peeps that don't deserve this crap...
we need a party...any idea tribe!!!time to lift some of us, even if for a minute..
I disagree with not outing the one from 16 years ago and I'll tell you why.
(1) I would like to know if my spouse was a significant support system for a former lover.
(2) I would like to know my spouse has a tendency to cheat 9and agreeing to be with a married person is wrong even if you're not married)
(3) You cannot guarantee there has not been PA with them during your M
(4)It will send your WH a wake up call about how very, very serious you are
Just my 2 cents.
Dip -- my phrases are TOO colorful.
So, WH has been MUCH better in attitude lately. Dramatically. I think there are two things: (1) I noticed he went to IC about 2 weeks ago. Maybe he told IC about that NC fight and got read the riot act? Or soemthing. Anyway, better attitude. (2) I got really angry and chewed him out about what a jerk he's been -- but I did it in WRITING. He seemed to digest that better. It was really, really effective. Seeing his behavior in writing -- all facts -- it was a wakeup call of some sorts. I'm writing him a second note, about trust, NC, etc. This note I wrote him when I was angry was about emotional abuse.
Anyway, still need a new car to replace the one I totaled back in April, so I'm shopping for that. We cannot agree at all. As usual. We never agree on cars and I never get what I want. I swear I'm half tempted to D just so I can do what *I* want with my fair share of the $.
WH is swinging a carrot today -- a vacation for just us. We've never done that. We never even took a honeymoon, no matter how much I begged.
I think there is one thing we frustrated LTA spouses can tell ourselves -- I think this is useful for most of us -- Its very difficult to love another person more than you love yourself. I think the first moment I had real hope for R for us was when I told my WH that placing any trust in him at this point would be completely illogical and unreasonable and he agreed but insisted "I am worthy." And I have to say, knowing him as I do, I would not be surprised to find that might be the first time in his life he's ever *felt* worthy.
Just a thought for today.
And NJ gal -- I was kidding. It doesn't come through in writing sometimes. Hope you're having a great vacation.
iwam, you wrote that you know my trigger is not your fault, but I will still apologize for putting you in the position of explaining yourself, and thank you for the talkin' to.
I have been antsy since yesterday when I got home. I think it is the IC coming up tomorrow. He is going to ask what I want to do, what direction we are going and I am not going to have a clear answer.
I am really getting confused. What is true what is not. What was things she said when she was lying, or did she say that when she was being "truthful"? What do I want, how do I feel?
It is like when you have drawn and redrawn a sketch so many times you can no longer tell which are the poorly erased lines and which are the true lines.
honesttoafault, my DS know how to use the laundry machines. It is the get things out of the dryer and hung up or folded before they wrinkle that they cannot seem to figure out
We are having to transport DS to and from band practice tonight. His school i 25 minutes from the house. I had forgotton how nice it was that DS18 drove and had friends that drove.
Maybe I'm screwed up too for wanting to stay with him.
In spite of what he's done I do think I love him.
We've been together for so long I just can't imagine a life without him.
I think it is the IC coming up tomorrow. He is going to ask what I want to do, what direction we are going and I am not going to have a clear answer.
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 12:28 PM, August 24th (Tuesday)]
m3. Your phrases can not be too colorful for me. Car shopping! I love car shopping. I wish I was there to help you with that.
One of the questions I have for IC tomorrow is to ask what is the deal with WW, what should I expect, what changes has he seen? I will ask if he sees indications of anything that warrant a review by a psychiatrist.
The dynamic of this last week still bothers me. I guess we have agreed to disagree on her decision to make the trip. She says some texts with incomplete information were discussing the issue. Despite her feelings to the contrary, I never forbade her to make the trip, I just wanted to talk about it and make it safe for me. Once the D came into the discussion, I no longer cared what or who she did. I am curious to see if this disconnect persists through the trip. We are planning activities we will do together over the next few weeks, and at the same time, I am organizing the records I will need to file. I think that if I get through the trip and dday anniversary OK I will have my answer. If not, then maybe it will be clear to me that her breaking the boundary I set on the trip was indeed the deal breaker.
I guess this is just normal stuff, but strikes me as weird. Yesterday was many calls texts, chatty. Today nothing, I texted twice to see how her day is going, no response. She has not used her cell today, so maybe she is just busy.
iwam, you are right that I want to help her, be her kisa. When we married I thought she was someone I could help, and I wanted to help. I know that was not healthy then, and I am not sure this is healthy now. I brought this up with IC and he did not seem to make too big a deal of it last session. He challenged me to describe wanting to help in positive descriptors.
I saw a tag line on another post today: Just because someone doesn't love you the way you want them to it doesn't mean they don't love you with everything they have. I think this does describe WW’s love for me.
I also think that m334455’s statement applies:
Its very difficult to love another person more than you love yourself.