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User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 19
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 6:52 AM, August 25th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

happy belated brithday honest.....

and happy that you shared the end of your day with us, i am happy that your ds's did right by their mom...i hope they made your day special in some way, becaue my freind you so deserve more then some happy, but lots and lots of happy


date me too...i too remember the magic slate....very well actually...


ats: i can understand why you lost it..but and its a biggie...your wife seems to hear what she wants to hear and you losing your temper and im thinkin thats when you threw the glass...well lets just say i am pretty sure she shut herself down...completely blocked her emotions....and im thinkin that the wounded little girl was there instead...its almost like she 2 different people...and when she takes on that wounded little girl, well she is going to react like a child as opposed to an adult with a clear head....and even in her adult form her head is none too clear...i am sorry ats...she seems to have many deep deep issues that i think i really really painful and hence the reactions she has...

honest i too try to understand how their minds work, the more you understand about the person who hurt you the easier it is to put it into a perspective that you can deal with....

so ats understanding where she is coming from i think will be the key to your salvation so to speak, so as not to take all she does personally, and realize that she is not rational and doesn't know how to be....

so now that you are not losing it anymore you need to sit down with her and explain how you feel and your fears of the consequences...phrase it all tryn's way..so as not to be accusing as opposed to stating your feelings which is what you would like her to take into account...but dont tell her that you want her to take your feelings into account...just state what your feelings are and let the ball then stay in her court so SHE can decide for herself if she wants to do this with the possible outcome that you have calmly and rationally layed out for her....

laura a sense of humor is not wonderful but oh so beneficial...it really does help so much with all of it...and its really good to see that yours is not only intact but in use...


today dd has college orientation...so she will be driving to it (local college) and because its a distance and she directionally challenged like her mom, i the mom will be her co-pilot...so she could concentrate on her driving and i will concentrate on the directions .. ...and then i will drive her car back home and probably come here...my addiction...anyways later on is parent orientation in the form of a dinner and a q&a with our dd.....which i think is cool....

so i am hoping its a good day in the miracle house...


(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 8:16 AM, August 25th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Magic slate! I'm so old I remember when those first came out.

Honest. Happy birthday.

miracle. I could not remember that word either. I had to look it up. Do you happen to remember the word for double posting? I wanted to use that one on tryn the other day but did not have time to look for it. I would keep a list but my W would find it and probably think they were code names for girlfriends. A good day in the miracle house sounds like a nice thing.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, August 25th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No time to post today as H is home all day and peeking in on me every 5 seconds. I feel like Allgood, sneaking back to my computer to try to see how everyone is doing.
I just wanted to wish Honest a very happy belated birthday. I do hope you found some peace and joy on this day. Kudos to your son for reminding you how special you are!! ((Honest)))
Laura - just wanted to send you some hugs. Your story is such a sad one and when I have some free time I hope to be able to respond a little more. (((Laura)))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, August 25th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow. There is a lot to respond to.

Laura, you are not screwed up for wanting to R. Tryn is right about that. There is nothing wrong with offering love to someone, giving a second chance. Now the 3rd, 4th 5th ... that's debatable. It's about trusting yourself in the end. Also, about not telling; for what it's worth, I did not tell, but I regret it and I am planning on changing that soon. I am/was friends with OW's BH and I can't put this to rest until he's told. Also, my priest says I'm complicit and really shouldn't take communion until I tell.

Tryn -- I agree with not bringing up the A -- once a certain number of things are settled. After that time, the problems in the M are just problems in the M. For example, I need to bring up the A with WH again to explain why he's not regaining trust due to his stupid XXXmatch etc behavior.

Baby Paddy is a chubby angel. She is rolling over. She thinks her brothers are the best thing since sliced bread and adores her Daddy. I know in my heart of hearts that taking this time to try R was crucial no matter what because my WH has improved his relationships with his children dramatically in the last 10 months and that is a gift to them that will always serve them well.

Ok -- so I had an epiphany about choice last Wednesday. My mother was over without my father and everything was about what he is and isn't doing. I kept explaining that she can't control him and what would she do with all the extra energy if she stopped trying and then I thought "well, duh, M3 ... apply that to yourself too girlfriend."

So, I've had a lot of extra energy for myself this week, LOL. I've been cleaning out and organizing the house, got laser hair removal, rode my bike 25 miles ... very nice.

ATS -- I'm glad I could help. The projecting thing is pretty common in WS's. I've been pointing it out to my WH when he does that. It is helpful.

Oh, and Laura -- I agree with Miracle; your first priority needs to be healing from this heart attack. I was pregnant on Dday and I just decided not to deal with it at all until the baby started sleeping through the night. similarly, while gathering informtion is good -- I would suggest just saying to your WH that you have to look out for you right now and don't have time or energy to deal with this but you do not approve, and he's getting a fateful opportunity to get a head start in winning you back while you're healing physically because this just has to be on your back burner for now.

Honest -- My sister told me to EXPECT my WH to say something shocking, hurtful, to disappoint. It was good advice. By not being surprised (unless he actually came up with something good) I was able to deal with the fogtastic attitude with less shock.

Miracle -- man, you are all over my keyster today. Doesn't matter -- you're always just as your name says, a miracle.

So, where to start with you?

How about we change the sentence to say, "It's hard to love someone when you don't love yourself."?

And remember, we in LTA have an extra dose of compassion. We must or we'd already be D'ed because R'ing with an LTA in nonsensical.

He wants a much nicer car than I do. he's probably right -- I'm letting "what if we D" color my thoughts on this and that's stupid.

Why isn't Mr.M3 in weekly IC? Because his IC said there would be no point. But I see he's listening and changing a little after IC now so I'm going to ask him to step it up. I would like to start MC too.

As for D, lets switch the sentence; When you are 100% sure, THEN it's time to get divorced

I'm going to post again later, because I have a bit more to say, but I've got to run for a short while


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, August 25th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good Morning (Noon by the time I post this?) Tribe,

iwam, I like your new sig line it is much more positive.

Last night I was not able to sleep at all. I get my notes and thoughts ready for my IC the next day and it really unsettles me. In IC today no big break-through, but it was comforting.

IC says that FWW's last session was very difficult. She is struggling to change 50 years of behavior. She has never had successful long-term relationships with adults, but he believes that she wants to be married to me. He said that FWW is trying harder than she ever has for anyone at anytime to make our relationship work. She has never had a successful longterm relationship, so this may be a low bar, but he believes that this is what she wants. He says she wants to figure how to make it work, but she does not know if she can or not. He says that he has told her that she needs to start being honest with me about her feelings, good and bad. I suggested and he agreed that when she says what she thinks I want to hear, the real feelings still leak out and I notice that. This discord then fuels my lack of trust issue.

The dynamics of the upcoming trip were the old/current her behavior, not the new behavior she is trying to learn. She did not want me to go with her on the trip for fear of what I might say or do, intentionally or unintentionally. She did not want to disappoint her sister or her parents. She did not want to deal with the painful issues, so she manipulated events so that she is going alone. Her trip is a reality now, so IC and talked about and will continue to work on techniques I can use independent of FWW to stay in a good place (happy) through the next month.

As for whom she is really fighting with when she is over the top angry. FWW says when that happens it is me she is fighting with and me she is angry with. When I suggested to IC that I felt she was fighting with her Mother, her xH, and others, he said that I am now finally beginning to understand.

In summary, she is making progress on improving her relationship skills, we both are. She may never be able to sustain a healthy relationship. I may never be able to trust her. None of this may happen fast enough for me. We are done processing A issues for the most part and into the issues we needed to deal with in MC years and years ago. When FWW feels stress and withdraws, she still is not able to tell me what is going on in real time, only after the fact. Her betrayal to the marriage and me really began soon after our marriage when she cheated me out of a life with her. She did this by not telling me what she needed, not being honest with me. Since our fight Thursday, I have seen positive actions from her.

FWW and I met for coffee after my IC. I told her my fear is that with her and I both under stress before and during the trip, and then soon after going through our dday anniversary, we will have a series of fights like last Thursday, or extended withdraw by her. If these things happen, the damage done may simply be too much to allow us to reconnect or stay together. We will be doing weekly MC starting next week with no predetermined end date. My goal is to get through the next month and our antiversary intact. If we can do that, I believe that we will eventually be OK.

If not, I will eventually be OK. Either way I am no longer afraid.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 11:37 AM, August 25th (Wednesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, August 25th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3:

Miracle -- man, you are all over my keyster today.

yup...and i am not done yet..


starting with:

I kept explaining that she can't control him and what would she do with all the extra energy if she stopped trying and then I thought "well, duh, M3 ... apply that to yourself too girlfriend."


LOVE THIS

Honest -- My sister told me to EXPECT my WH to say something shocking, hurtful, to disappoint. It was good advice. By not being surprised (unless he actually came up with something good) I was able to deal with the fogtastic attitude with less shock.

LOVE THIS TOO

Tryn -- I agree with not bringing up the A -- once a certain number of things are settled. After that time, the problems in the M are just problems in the M. For example, I need to bring up the A with WH again to explain why he's not regaining trust due to his stupid XXXmatch etc behavior.

AND THIS


How about we change the sentence to say, "It's hard to love someone when you don't love yourself."?

PERFECT CHANGE


And remember, we in LTA have an extra dose of compassion. We must or we'd already be D'ed because R'ing with an LTA in nonsensical.

AGREE COMPLETELY

As for D, lets switch the sentence; When you are 100% sure, THEN it's time to get divorced

ANOTHER GREAT WORDING CHANGE

Why isn't Mr.M3 in weekly IC? Because his IC said there would be no point. But I see he's listening and changing a little after IC now so I'm going to ask him to step it up. I would like to start MC too.

good for you...can't wait til you do..

So, I've had a lot of extra energy for myself this week, LOL. I've been cleaning out and organizing the house, got laser hair removal, rode my bike 25 miles ... very nice.

superwoman is in the house!!!


He wants a much nicer car than I do. he's probably right -- I'm letting "what if we D" color my thoughts on this and that's stupid.

so waht are you doing to do about it?

o.k. i am done now, stepping away from the keyster now...


ats: i like your post...it shows that you are standing up for yourself, and doing so without bringing her down...and doing so without stooping...i like that you have a plan...i think we all need a plan...and i like that you are prepared to follow through BUT hope that you do not have too!!! so yay ats...clarity with decision, the road to healing which is also the road to freedom from so much crap...

wild thought just popped in my head with that last sentense...we all need to strive to be shit free...


fnf: glad you got a si lta fix...we are such an addictive bunch aren't we..

dip: drawing blanks on all our new words...and thats your fault for taking so much time away from us...shame shame having a life that is not based in the lta forum on si...living irl...instead of living in the computer...

o.k. rant over....

i gots blinkingeye syndrome just for you dip...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, August 25th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whoo-hoo Miracle, glad to know I'm not in trouble anymore, LOL.

As for the car -- well, tomorrow I'm going to look at something in the middle. The one he wants is 35K; the one I want is 15K; this one I'm going to look at tomorrow is 25K -- and he said I can buy it if I like it.

It's hard to find vehicles that aren't minivans that seat 6+

Miracle -- as far as shit free goes, I call it "striving to be a problem-free zone"

So, back to the rest of what I was going to post earlier.

I have spent the last few weeks pondering and pondering whether or not it's too late for me and WH. Every time I've checked his stuff I find some sort of NC violation, suspicous activity, etc. And I'm SICK of checking. Actually, I checked yesterday and *didn't* find something for a change so either he's getting sneakier or he told his IC about that fight and got told he's WRONG/NUTS etc.

Anyway -- So, I've been saying to myself, "Self, if you are unwilling to check this stuff anymore then IS there a way for WH to regain your trust, and if so, what is that? Or is it too late?"

this is part of the thing that led to my post about trust in General.

So, the answer was: yes, he can still regain my trust. What will it take? People value the things they have to work hard for. So, it will take hard work. And his slip-ups, for me, call into question his ABILITY to be faithful. So, I need a proxy that shows physical and mental self control. So, this proxy is going to be a combination of 4 things: bi-weekly MC, bi-weekly IC for him, he must get into the best physical shape of his life ASAP and we must make an execute a plan to be debt-free with the exception of our mortgage ASAP -- which *might* even include buying a less expensive home.

What else did I decide I need? Well, he needs to go NC with XHSGF suspected OW2. He also needs to dislose if any of his other female "friends" are former lovers and go NC with them as well. -- this is because his boundaries SUCK. He needs to disclose any lies of omission. -- this will give him big time honesty points I think I will tell him times I suspect he was with OW because I bet I'm right and that might show him he's not that sneaky afterall.

I'm also going to insist on a postnup. I would like for some assets to be non-marital property as well as other things. This is for my financial safety, especially since I've figured out I'd actually be better off financially without him.

I have a lot of little things I want done -- painting, getting rid of certain items that remind me of OW . . .

as tryn suggested I'm going to talk to WH about outing OW. I don't know that I'm going to make it optional, but I am going to talk to him first.

Finally, I think I've figured out the best way to explain trust and regaining it. Theres the transactional trust (CBT -- calculus based) -- i.e. yes my spouse is going to get the groceries, and there is trust that exists as a function of the relationship (IBT -- indentity based) -- i.e. spouse won't cheat because they value relationship and care about my feelings.

His actions build CBT trust, and his NC violations set IBT trust to less than zero.

And what I've realized is that I do not have enough needs that can only be met by my WH to be in a relationship with him if he cannot restore my IBT trust.

So, there you go. I'm going to talk about my trust-building needs with IC on Monday so that I have a firm, concrete list which will be MUSTS and This would also be helpful but is not a must.

ta da.

BTW -- if you ladies ever have another IRL meeting in NYC I would take the train up there from DC. If you'd have me. I've never been to NYC.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, August 25th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

darn iwam, now I am confused

Whis is it?

we all need to strive to be shit free...

or,

Am I supposed to own my crap?

Is there some shit-free crap I am not aware of?


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 1:36 PM, August 25th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ATS, I just noticed you're kicking my tail on posting...

You're supposed to eliminate your crap and stop accepting theirs.

"eliminate your crap." I'm so funny!


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, August 25th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats:

freedom from so much crap...

definitely theirs

we all need to strive to be shit free...

definitely theirs

You're supposed to eliminate your crap and stop accepting theirs.

yup


"eliminate your crap." I'm so funny!

yup too....

ats: when you shit, own it

when she shits, its her shit, its when she's flinging the shit that is hits the fan!!!

got that now...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, August 25th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3 you seem to have a good plan...i admit i am confused on your calculus, ibt and so on wording/analogy...its as greek to me as car stuff, and most computer stuff too.....im the get in and drive person or log on and type....more then that is a challenge...

but i think i got your drift...and i like it

and you were never in any trouble, people are allowed to have different opinions...i have different opinions all the time..

and another different opinion i have is about your impending car...get the damn car YOU want especially since it helps put you into the debt free category you are putting on your TO DO list....kwim!!!


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, August 25th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m334455,

Your plans sound good. Not only does it let your WS demonstrate his commitment, he and you all end up in a better place financially, and healthwise.

While not set as R conditions, FWW and I are doing very similar. We are both watching our weight closely and working out regularly. She has dumped the jewelery and clothing she wore in the online pictures with OM, she has changed her hair and glasses to alter her appearance from A-era photos. We are working together on finances.

I feel so very, very lucky that there have not been, or I am not aware of, any NC violations. Of course there will be a big one in a few weeks with bil, but we will need to figure out how to manage future family events.

Tryn, I just can't promise her I will give up any mention of A until this trip is over, but I can let my actions speak for themselves. I have no more questions for her about her A. I will be the best Atsenaotie I can be so that we will grow closer during the next month, or she will REALLY regret what she looses if we don't.

I wish I had some clue how long it will take her to figure out adult relationships, if ever. I often said I would stay in R so long as we are making progress. If the next month is as bad as the last month, I will have my 2 bad months in a row. If it goes better,and keeps getting better (or not worse) I can see waiting until DS is out of HS, June '14. That will be 5.5 years from dday, if it ain't fixed by then...

btw, IC/MC does not see FWW as needing medication. She has to learn new behaviors, and to think differently. That is all.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, August 25th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all
ats
Trust is tough. I really think I am beyond the betrayal of the M and the sex. What I am stuck on with my WW is the lack of trust. I am not able to accept that she is ever being honest. Of course, part of this is that she has not been honest about feelings and problems

I feel the same way. Whenever I trigger and get upset he apologises. But when I try to talk about how I feel he says "I'm sorry that wa stupid of me. I shouldn't have said/done that" and doesn't want to talk about it. I need to but he tries to avoid discussion because I get upset. I tried asking him how he feels about them and the whole situation but he just won't talk. If I keep pushing do you think he'll change? Sometimes he seems to get cranky and when I ask about this says he's crankiy with himself. I just want him to be honest. The constant lies are what gets me. I find myself really looking at him hard when he says "I love you" trying to see if there's truth or more lies in his eyes.

m334455

Oh -- and Laura -- is this the first time you've CAUGHT him? That's significant.

I keep avoiding thinking about this. 22 years ago I discovered he was spending a lot of time with another nurse. I called him on it and he said they were just friends. She was living with a man at the time who didn't work so A would have been difficult. Confronted OW who also said just friends. She has since left man and is in long term lesbian relationship. She still lives in area and I'm so tempted to go and see her and ask her if what she said back then was true. I suppose this is why I'm so unsure about other affairs. Breaks my heart to think it may have been all of our married life. I think if I found out this was a PA I'd believe he'd been at it the whole time.

fnf

This is not a decision to make quickly or while in the early stages of emotional upheaval. Giving ourselves time to get into a stronger, emotional place is the kindest most sensible thing we can do for ourselves and our families.

I keep telling my self this but it's so hard. I want us to work and think he does too but the long term lies make it so difficult to believe him


trynhard

Im 100% sure the greatest act of love after infidelity is to allow a spouse a second chance

I so agree with this. But sometimes I don't think he really understands what a gift this is. Hopefully he will with time. In the early days I told him that as my husband he was supposed to be my best friend. Last night after we had sex (I can't bring my self to call it "make love" yet) he said "you're my best friend, my lover and my wife and I love you". I so hope he means it.

btw.. I just closed the checking account I opened when I was planning to D last year...

After I found out and before I confronted I saw a solicitor. I have fixed my will so my kids get my half of everything if I die. (Just as well given Heart attack scare). I told him all I had done.

oops here he comes try to be back later


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 4:00 PM, August 25th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi
He's gone now. Continuing from before
I've left my share to kids. In early days I was terrified that something would happen to me and that he and his wh..re would live in MY house and she'd end up with half of what I'd worked so hard for. I put a clause in my will saying he was unfaithful. Solicitor said that means he can't contest it. I will also get a small inheritance from my mother's estate. I'm going to put this in a separate bank account so if we D he can't get half. I haven't told him about this and know he will be really upset as he has made suggestions about what WE should do with money when it comes. I earn quite a lot more than him and it annoys me that I've worked so hard and he could get all the benefits after what he's done to me. I also know my mother would hate the idea of him getting half what she left him. She really loved him - Thanks God she never knew!!!


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, August 25th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura28

I tried asking him how he feels about them and the whole situation but he just won't talk. If I keep pushing do you think he'll change?

Your pushing will not change him, sorry. He can change, it can take time (you will hear this lot). From the time I had "proof", it took FWW 6 days to admit on my dday 10/5. In the weeks after that, she laid out a story of what the A's were. 4 OM, 4+ years. I bought the story. Initially, everything she told me that I could verify independently was a lie. Everything. At 4 5 months out our R was tanking, we were not doing well at all, it just did not make sense to me. The pieces did not fit. With encouragement from our MC and me alternating between begging and demanding, she gave me 4 pages of additional details 6 months out that dramatically changed the scope and depth of her involvement. I tell you all of this to show that at least for us it was/is a process. During those 6 months, she spent time lurking here on SI, she read Not Just Friends by Glass, and she read parts of the many other books I bought. We did nearly weekly MC or IC.

Here are a couple of other suggestions. Have him write a timeline or narrative. FWWs A involvement was way beyond what I would have believed. I would never have asked the right questions to get to all the information. I told her I wanted to know enough so that if one of the OM ever spoke to me they could not surprise me. I accept that I do not know everything, I never will. I hope that I know enough that nothing in the future can ever surprise me. I do not need all the details, as one member wrote, once you have been stabbed in the heart, does it really matter how many times?

Another realization that came to me recently, FWW just cannot recall 4 years of events. Talking and meeting with the OM was business as usual, her life for 4 years. After reading a post here on SI I tried to remember all the details of sex FWW and I have had in the last 3 months. It was hard. I remember some, I remember locations, but not details; and this is just the last 3 months. If we had been having sex for the last 4 years I am certain I would have trouble remembering most of it, only the very different or unique, and that is what FWW remembered and told me about. Because she had a bias towards remembering the remarkable, I believed that it was all remarkable. The reality is most of the meetings, moist of the talk, most of the sex was unremarkable, even disappointing. It was her trying to fill her bucket of need with affirmation faster than it leaked out the hole in the bottom of the bucket.

Read the healing library, and encourage your WS to read appropriate pages too. Get and read Not Just Friends, Sexual Detours, and other books others will recommend. Ask you WS to read them also, discuss them. If he is not willing to do these things, it says much about his commitment to you. He also needs IC to figure out why he, like so many of our WSs has such a need for external validation, and why he looked for that from OW.

--Ats

Edited to Add (ETA) I am glad you have the counsel of an attorney (soliciter). You are wise to protect yourself financially.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 4:07 PM, August 25th (Wednesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, August 25th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi ats
Thanks for all that.
I suppose I'm just impatient and want to know it all NOW. Then another part of me doesn't want to know any more becasue I'm frightened.

Also he is not a reader at all! I have thought about getting Not just Friends but its not availabale here in Australia - will have to order from OS. Will get onto this.

I have asked him lots of qs. When I asked about No 2 he said he couldn't remember how long they wre together - probably 8-10 yrs. She was the nurse in hospital and told me 3 EA follwed by 5 PA!!! I believe her. I don't think he lied - just didn't know! That hurts!!

I tried to remember all the details of sex FWW and I have had in the last 3 months. It was hard. I remember some, I remember locations, but not details; and this is just the last 3 months. If we had been having sex for the last 4 years I am certain I would have trouble remembering most of it,

I'm the same!!! But it makes it so hard.

In my nasty moments I say things like "Did you screw her the day before (or the day after) my dad died/my daughter's 21st/my son's operation" etc. He always says he doesn't remember and I suppose that may be true!


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 4:21 PM, August 25th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I so wish I had time to read all your posts and get to know you all. I also wanted to respond to some of you but have run out of time. Hope to write more tonight as he is at work. Have to get ready for work now.

Nofun
Thanks so much for your kind words and empathy. Sounds like we really are kindred spirits.

Try to talk more tonight

Hugs

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 5:02 PM, August 25th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

miracle. You have blinkingeyesyndrome (new word) just for me! That is so sweet. You have made my day.

m3. Thanks for the baby update. It is nice to hear she is doing so good.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 7:38 PM, August 25th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all for the birthday greetings!!

M3: what wonderful posts! Your plan sounds very good.

Miracle: I hope all goes well with DD and college.

Ats: I'm glad you are calmer and also are forming a plan, and are moving ahead.

I don't have time to answer everyone right now....in a bit of a dither and need advice.

WH tells DS 15 on the phone that he is coming back next Tues. WH told me that he made reservations to go back 7/28.

On his email (he doesn't know I know) I saw the reservations for 7/28 AND reservations from another airline that says he is coming this Friday.

I don't know what to do.

On one hand, I want to go to the airport on Friday and see what he does or who he is with or where he goes. I don't want WH to see me, because I'm sure he'll have some excuse like he wanted to surprise me and the kids. I thought I might take DS 34 with me for the excuse that I was picking HIM up (he DID go to CA for a week and will be coming home Thurs.)

What purpose would this serve? I guess if I see that he is with someone else, or WH doesn't come home, it'll give me the 2 x 4 I REALLY REALLY need.

Just need some advice. I was going to post this in general, but with my crazy sitch......<sigh> I don't really want to go into details there.

Thank you guys so much.

Hugs to everyone and to our newbie {{{{{Laura}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, August 25th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i do not have much time...wanted to respond to you honest...

no don't go....what purpose would it serve...

if he is with someone, its putting it into your face

if he isn't with anyone, so what...

nothing is going to change who this man is...your plan needs to stay put, you have somewhat of a plan...you need to line up those ducks...and if he is up to no good it will be that much harder for you to put up with him until you do

the only purpose served by going would be to give you more pain and hurt and hon i think you've had quite enough....and unfortunately until this whole charade is over, there will bemore pain and hurt from so many other sources...you do not need to be your own source on this one...

dont go!!!


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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