WH does the right thing and responds with a no, if you need something work related let me know.
So she responds with a stupid question, he answers it and that ends the texting.
WH looks frazzled when he gets home and walks me into our bedroom and about cries when he tells me OW texted him and he needs to show me...
So I read the texts and tell WH I appreciate how WH relied on the Holy Spirit and God's strength to guide his decision to honor our marriage with how he chose to handle this situation. I explain that I, as his wife, appreciate him honoring my wishes as well. I then tell him that the NC boundary needs to be restated and rather than rush into a decision on how to handle this, well I think WH should contact his IC tomorrow and set an appointment to work out a way to restate and reaffirm the NC boundary with OW.
I saw this look of relief pass over WH's face and started to have a huge amount of empathy and love for WH in that moment.
It is terrible how fear can destroy people if they let it and it is beautiful when people start to let go of that fear and make healthy, loving choices for themselves.
I thank God for the strength to do what is right and work towards relational forgiveness with my WH...
And I pray this Married OW stops phishing and that whatever decision my WH and his IC come to, it is something that will get through to Married OW....
Day by day, minute by minute...
I DO BELIEVE.
YAY your husbands response was perfect....it a really awesome step, it shows that when she opted to break nc, he opted to keep it....granted he did respond, but his response was spot on especially since they do work in the same place and that needs to be address and HE DID......
ats: we must have cross posted last nite...has your wife recently heard of a younger person dying, or have you guys lost someone, or has someone else been diagnosed with something...its sounds to me like she is questioning her mortality in the way when we see others that we can relate to dying or died....and if she is slightly depressed, doesn't have to be the i need to worry depressed....shit like that can def affect you...but it needs to be followed up because if it is a major depression, she would need to be treated...
and absolutely stay out of jfo....i almost never go in there, i cannot handle it...and general i only recently started to go back there, i take breaks from that forum from time to time to maintain some kind of equilibrium.....
i mainly come here, off topic, f & g and wayward....i don't find wayward difficult....except when you see a wayward who clearly doesn't get it, then i stay off his/her posts completely, i won't even read them.....
m3: you ic sounds like a truly cool individual...i love his style...
and i am happy that you are happy with him...that helps....
fun: good luck tomorrow, we will be praying for you and mr fun.....
this is huge....acceptance is the first super big step towards a true healing...this is where you let go of so much...and it puts you on the road to forgiveness....and if you can't forgive thats o.k...but acceptance is key for moving on with ones life...forgiveness is nice but not necessary for happiness...acceptance is!!!so i am really happy that you feel you are almost there....
and roses you are doing amazingly well keeping up with all of us!!!
roses and allgood:
always gives great advice
thanks BUT definitely NOT always... ...i get it wrong alot....you give me way way too much credit here!!!...
so allgood after your chit chat with your hubby...how did you feel about the conversation?...
from the sounds of it the convo went well, he opened up to you...and im thinkin you listened, really listened....when he asked you about how often you think about divorcing him, how did you take it...because there are many ways to take it depending on how it was said...
and i get the feeling that you are afraid to feel...really feel....and that is o.k.....its like the child who burns their hand on the fire when they cook..the next time they go to cook there is much more caution involved...but in order for you to really and truly heal you will have to feel....and me thinks that there is an awful lot of feeling there....not all good and not all bad...just alot!!!...i could be wrong, and i actually hope i am...its not good to bottle it all up...and yet its not good to unleash it all the way i think you are afraid too...
wow, my own little aha moment...i could honestly say allgood everything i just wrote for you i could very well say for myself....wow....
get him his own copy of the book...and i think having a plan or a goal is a great idea!!
in my case .. I am one of those whose post affair marriage is much better than the pre affair and pre d-day marriage.
if i could bring myself to overlook the fact that pfm is still a liar and not open and certainly not transparent then i too can say the above....the irony is in all other aspects and the list could choke a horse pfm did it all and actually still continues to do all of what he should have been doing from the getgo...only now i no longer want him as a husband because i cannot overlook those things....he was always all those ugly things i just didn't know it then, but i do now...
there is so much irony in my sich with pfm....only its not funny irony, but really sad irony...oh well...it is what it is!!!
and yet, as illogical as it may sound....
I still mourn (on some level) my pre-d-day marriage... or more accurately my innocence...
there is nothing illogical about this at all...i too long for what i lost...even though he was an emotionally verbally abusive husband and father...among some of his traits....i would take all of that back in a heartbeat to know that i was truly loved the way i believed i was...to know that i was the one who was "it" for him...
to know the love he felt for me was true!!! but alas as i said before it is what it is!!!
but the end result is finally exactly what you wanted...
it reminds me of that old adage be careful what you wish for...i actually prayed for pfm to do all that he is doing mostly be able to "see" his family...us and his foo for what we all are...my prayers were answered just not the way i had hoped...
nut njgal for you it can be....your husband is doing it all right now...all of it, not just some of it...
lunch with my sister, a brownie, pound cake a vanilla latte and some new underwear to decompress
i am guessing a sweet tooth and an undies fetish???
Miracle: I felt good after talking to my H last night. His comment about the divorce - made me think that he worries that I'm going to call it quits. I answered his question honestly - I do think of it when I hit extreme anger or sadness & wonder if I could be happier with someone else, but I told him I would only be looking for someone like him because he's the one I want to be with. He also asked me if I would go straight for the divorce or if we would separate first. I thought that was just odd & I can't quite put that together - cuz I just told him I wasn't looking to divorce. I just answered his question & didn't question him about his motives for asking cuz I was just happy he was contributing to the conversation.
And, yes Miracle, I am really afraid of letting go & gettin gburned again & some of it is just that I am disgusted (that really is the 100% accurate word for me in this sitch) by his actions and that definitely clouds the way I view him now.
Anyway, all this progress came to a screeching halt when I checked his phone today (no real reason - other than it was just sitting there and my H was nowhere near it) and found a text that was strange & asked my H about it (timing wasnt great & he couldnt really talk). He gave me an answer that doesn't make sense, but I am witholding judgment til we talk when he comes home tonight. But, he was clearly pissed that I checked his phone. (And, I 've noticed he's been deleting texts so I couldn't get both ends of the exchange).
Ast.. It’s good to hear your W wants to be a good woman. She’s down maybe because it is just now sinking in how horrible a person she was... I think you are doing pretty good. BTW.. don’t sell yourself short. You would be very attractive to many women out there. Boating and wine! Yep.. lol I’ve read enough of you post to know you have a personality that would be well liked.
let it be me… You seem to be very positive and that is how I began. I think that is good. It takes tremendous mind strength for the feelings that will likely be coming your way. I am pretty sure you are still in shock. Your situation was a lot like mine. For a long time we had those “gut” suspicious feelings that we never followed up with serious investigation. It makes you feel so stupid, dumb… but the reality is… Your strong self boundaries and the fact that you had a commitment in front of God, it just isn’t possible for that promise to be broken in my life. The old slogan, “it takes one to know one”.. and you are not one. Anger is coming. It just does. I held my hurt in secret too. People knew something was up.. word slowly started to get out for me. Eventually, my kids knew. Just plan on holding your head high and take pride you are a good woman… So for now, just hurt and cry too… Tell us what you hurt about.. and at the same time keep thinking you can forgive. Read as much as possible about infidelity, boundaries, better relationships, forgiveness… You need this site. Your H may not understand why you need to come here. Just tell him that it is your online support group, they are helping you accept and forgive.
Iwant… We all lie at some degree or another. Most of us lie to protect our egos… to make us “look better.” We may lie to protect someone we love from what we think will hurt them. We lie at work, I have been asked to lie at work. I wonder if your H has OCLD? Maybe a med would help your H? It sounds like he's got a brain chemical discrepancy of some sort.
Mr fun is in my prayer… you just don’t know what you have until it is gone.
Rose… acceptance comes at your own pace… I have yet to fully accept… I want to accept… I do things that I hope leads to acceptance… I hope you too…
I re-lived dday over and over.. I can goto JFO. NJgirl makes some great post over there... Today, I can relive it and you know what? It’s ok.
[This message edited by trynhard at 9:42 PM, August 4th (Wednesday)]
Maybe a med would help your H?
yes except the med is a myth its called "truth serum"....
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 10:09 PM, August 4th (Wednesday)]
i guess i really needed to make that point....!!!
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 10:10 PM, August 4th (Wednesday)]
shhh..don't tell dip..
o.k. back to business
allgood: i hope he has a reasonable explanation...if not i may have to come over and bop him on his head...
and i can certainly understand that fear of letting go...time..that dreaded word...time and a husband who keeps doing right!!!
Njgal and Allgood, my husband had a yellow highlighter and I had a pink one and now "Not Just Friends" is covered in pink and yellow highlighter! LOL! He was always making his point and I was always making mine! That was in the first 6 months after d-day..OMG!
m3, your new therapist said, you have a big problem in need of resolution that you are not resolving! Well, as I said, you really just had a baby and sounds like you only just had two others right before this one so you have ben kind of busy! You are doing ok! You will make that decision..in time..just keep on keeping on!
No Fun, wishing you and H the best of outcomes tomorrow! Hope you are doing well?
let it be..great job on your H's part and yours!
Miracle, thanks for the encouragement..I feel like acceptance is coming ever so slowly. I do not know about forgiveness..some..but not all my H has done to me and to us will be forgiven and that is ok with me.
I have had a long, long time to think about this and that is ok with me.
Which brings me to ats's comment.about how one would think there might be a beter prize for running a five year marthon (I am paraphrasing).
One might think so but one would be wrong. There is no good thing that automatically comes out of this most dispicable of hurtful actions of one person toward another.
I do hear what NJGal and others say about the connection and yes my H and I communicate in a healthier way now. We do not avoid discussing the hard topics and we do not avoid conflict even though it is tempting to do so.
We know now that to allow resentment to build between us is the best way to end up in divorce court. We talk about issues that make us angry..issues in the here and now and issues from the past..from the affairs and simple issues as well.
We avoided conflict and intimacy before the affairs tore us asunder and now as we rebuild from the ashes we are making certain that we share everything..our resentments, our fears and ourselves, so as to not have a repeat of what occurred.
I do believe there are other ways in which a couple can get to a place of intimacy though, without destoying their belief and trust and love and safety in each other. All of which it is impossible to fully restore.
There are classes, workshops, therapy and other means to this end, if a couple truly desire to be intimate they will accomplish this goal without the deep emotional harm that an affair, especially an LTA leaves in it's wake.
I do feel sad still about the affairs, although I accept that this is my choice, to stay in this marriage, with this man, is my choice, in spite of the sadness that will always be with us.
As Allgood said, he wants to work on our marriage now. He loves me and wants to give me the time and energy that is required to make our marriage as good as it can be. It can never be a marriage in which I was not stabbed in the back by my best friend however.
He knows this and he has chosen this over starting over with someone new as well. Sometimes I wonder why, as it would be so much easier to start over..but so many of us, the majority of us do decide to stay.
I suppose that the love between us that has grown over many years is just too strong to let go...
ats, I am happy much of the time now, more so than I was just a few weeks ago and it has been a wonderful and delightful change. But the sadness will always be there..lurking... I am too much of a realist to believe otherwise. Do you believe it will disappear altogether one day?
Self-deception- is literally a matter of deceiving oneself- and thus raises unique questions.
How can one deceive himself-unless he already knows-what it is that he is deceiving himself about?
I may have OLD do they make a med for that
ok back to business,,what did you say Miracle?
let it be me, so happy that you got confirmation that your WS is serious about NC. I cannot imagine having a WS working with the OP.
But, he was clearly pissed that I checked his phone.
Serenity now, serenity now, serenity now…Trust is still a real sore spot with me. Weird how I am moving forward on R, and yet I clearly believe that she is withholding information about her A's.
“it takes one to know one”.. and you are not one
This is really quite profound Tryn.
But the sadness will always be there..lurking... I am too much of a realist to believe otherwise. Do you believe it will disappear altogether one day?
Disappear? No, I wanted to answer you yes, I really did, but really no. What I do hope for is that it will be in my subconscious, that I will not be aware of any impact on me day to day, just a part of me along with all the other good and bad that is there but no longer thought about consciously. I was an optimist when I dated and married FWW; that is one of the things I am trying to recover in me.
FWW talks of not living for long, and not getting old because she is afraid to be old. In her view, old people have to rely on other people and she does not want to have to rely on anyone. That intimacy and trust issue again coming from her childhood with an alcoholic mother.
We talked last night about her session and mine. Again, she started saying the session did not do much, and then we went over 2+ hours of things they touched on. It goes back to our wedding when she did not want to take my name. There were explanations then, and I was too much a “nice guy” to make an issue of it. She changed her name in her first M, and then changed it back after the D. She says she lost her “self” in the first M and did not want that to happen again, but I think more importantly, it would be easier to leave me if things did not work out if she did not change her name. So, she came into the M already planning on leaving. F#CK IC asked her if she would take my name when we get things worked out. She does not want to take my name, but asked if I wanted us to change to a hyphenated last name.
Last night was a kind of walk through the disaster zone that was our M. She came into the M already thinking about when she would have to leave. She would not tell me how she really felt about things except for the occasional blast when all the anger would spill out. She did not love me in any sense that any of us would have of the word. She would dissociate from me during sex. She did not want to be dependent on me for anything. She felt guilty for having children and an Ex to deal with. She was angry with me for not meeting her needs or making her happy. She told the children her and ours how unfair I was, but that she would take care of them. For the first few years of our M she still had fond thoughts and mementos of her OM from her A during her first M. She still, even in IC yesterday, wants to blame me for her having A. She did not schedule another IC.
I have additional IC scheduled to work on 3 issues.
1, how to manage intrusive thoughts, questions, etc without rug sweeping or torturing FWW for all details.
2. Regaining trust.
3. I need to be sure that my desire to R is a healthy thing, and not some pathological need.
she also needs to take full responsiblity for her actions...if she finds a way to blame you or anyone else for that matter she is not owning her shit...and in not owning her shit she is not changing the fundamental issues that drove her to do what she did....
and you are an amazingly compassionate man to be so patient with her and actually guide her through this...not a whole lot men that would do this....
and yes i had the silly's last nite....no mudslides though .....
in spite of the sadness that will always be with us.
no, no and no....sadness does not always have to be with you....it like when you lose someone you love, you are sad that they are lost but you eventually come to a place where you can celebrate their life....that sadness does not stay with you day in and day out forever...and sometimes when you reflect back on your memories you may get meloncholy or you may not, that would depend on the memory...but with this and unlike a death...your marriage has a new beginning of sorts....it goes on, it redevelops into something different...not necessarily bad or sad, just different...
life goes on, life is for the living....yes we were all delivered a huge blow to say the least....but giving up and saying that this is all there is is taking a defeatest attitude and what we fear we will create....that goes for all of us bs and ws alike...
i know how hard it is to be positive...hell i live it everyday...but it not only can be done but must be done to find a new "happy" or "contentment" as honest has said (at least i think it was honest)....
and btw roses i thought about you this am on my power walk and realized that maybe you are not protecting your husband so much as showing him compassion with his sich of being out of work.....
I slept like the dead last night for the first time in well over a year. I think what that IC said -- that I've done absolutely everything I can do -- it freed me in some way. I slept 12 hours like it was a minute and I'm still groggy and tired.
My WH left home a little before me this morning to walk to the subway. I followed a little later on my bike -- and I saw him about halfway there riding a few blocks behind him. I watched him for a minute before I caught up and made some rowdy joke about him having a cute butt. And then I rode on.
It was heart-wrenching to watch him when he didn't know I was looking. You can actually see he's depressed.
It's hard to watch someone you love destroy themselves.
It's been 8 months since he found out I knew.-- so 8 months since his Dday -- he could be in a much better place now, if only he wanted to. Sigh.
ETA -- good stuff there letitbe
[This message edited by m334455 at 9:09 AM, August 5th (Thursday)]
The text: yes, there was an explanation - not iron clad -but believable enough.
H understood why I wanted to look in his phone, but said his issue was that I was sneaky about it & looked at it while he was in the shower.
After suppressing my initial reaction, I simply pointed out that telling him I want to check his phone sort of defeats the purpose.
So, we talked & unfortunately, it all came back to me being really pissed off & angry at what he did. Wound up practically begging him to tell me anything about OW that would make me think he wouldn't really want to be with her. I even stooped so low as to point out all of the reasons he should not want to be with her. (My behavior was really immature & pathetic.)
I later had the presence of mind to tell him I realize it's not nice to keep throwing the A in his face, but I am very hurt, etc.
A few minutes later, after I left for work, I called him to tell him I was still fuming mad & that maybe in the future if he sees me getting crazy like that he should say something like he's disgusted with himself, blah, blah, blah. He said he thought it was best to just let me vent. So.... now that I've told you this is not a good approach, you are still saying nothing?
He says he doesn't know what to say (after I just F-n told him what to Fn say!)
I left off saying that's great - so I can do pissed off & angry that's fine by me.
And, you know what, I am having an incredibly productive day at work today. I really do have a lot of energy from being angry. (It must be an adrenaline kind of thing). Sowhat, if it will mean I will probably drop dead 10 years sooner, right?
(Sigh). This too shall pass.
I am one of those whose post affair marriage is much better than the pre affair and pre d-day marriage.
We are communicating our needs and he is really working hard, but I still miss the blind trust. I miss the "before the nightmare".
We talked the other night about why he made his choice to cheat and that I was worried if he didn't know "why", it could happen again. He said that by us working hard and communicating, he didn't think it would, but he couldn't promise or guarantee that it would never happen again. What if some major event happens that directs our attention away from each other for a short time, and he remembers the "high" he felt from the affair, would he go back? Why is it that I could promise and guarantee that I would never do that?
Btw, I was the one who said
"but the sadness will always be there lurking...etc..."
Miracle, I disagree, although you are not the first nor will you be the last one to disagree with me on this. I do believe the sadness will always be there..lurking. It may not be a presense every day...it may only be lurking... in the shadows..but when it is unleashed ..by a word..a visual or a memory..it will come forth in all of it's glory!
One cannot experience such raw pain and expect it to disappear...this is coming from one who has exoerienced a lot of pain. It is not with me every day..but it is never very far away either.
Just my humble opinion and the truth of it is..it might very well be different for different people! For you, Miracle...and for you Ats... it might just disappear with time. I do hope so.
Why is it that I could promise and guarantee that I would never do that?
Have you read the Monogamy Myth? You can't trust a promise of fidelity -- instead you need to make a promise of honesty; i.e. he'll say to you: "man I'm really attracted to X's new wife and she hit on me, we've got to stay away from that chick." Or, "I feel like you never make time for me lately and I've been having lunch with X from work everyday and it's getting flirty because I'm so lonely."
I took a test about how likely you are to cheat -- did one for me and one for WH and my score was WAY higher than his. Which shows you why everything written all over SI is all about boundaries ...
But could I say 100% that I would never cheat on my WH? I cannot. These are dark times, and desperate acts are committed in dark times. All I can say is that I know what my personal boundaries need to be to prevent an A and I will do my best to keep to them.
I will say, though, that I am 100% aware that my marriage would be over if I cheated. And that I would never have an A with a married person.
But can I swear I would never have a weak moment? No. I can only do my best to keep myself out of that sort of a situation and pray that my self-respect and values would override my baser nature were I to find myself in the middle of my "perfect storm".
paper roses -- have fun if you are away!