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User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 19
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Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, August 29th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I don't know what the Hell I want, to be honest. I want what I can't have, really. I guess I'm still trying to process that. Ideally, I would like for him to have come to me years ago & tell me what he was missing in our M. I would want him to have taken seriously the complaints I had about our M. In essence, I would want the effort both of us put into the M after DDay, but without the A.

By all accounts, more of my needs are being met now than they have been in years. He would have to say the same. So that is good.

Miracle - yes - I see your point. He did a lot of things right - now that I think about it - a lot of things I didn't mention in my post - like taking my daughter from me when she was flipping out while we were trying to dine out, etc.

Tryn, I explained at least 2x before we went on vacation that I was going to need to be reassured and while I didn't tell him word for word what to say I did say the point should be for him to say that we were in it together, for the long run. I made it quite clear that his current attempt to comfort by doing nothing ("letting me vent") or by just giving me a reassuring touch was not going to cut it. He's lucky as Hell I didn't trigger like I thought I would. I mean, I have very specific memories about many different places in the hotel from DDay. I didn't cry at all. I just remember how I felt in a certain location - thought that really sucked- and kept walking.

to have to ask for this to be filled over and over makes me feel even more fear, unbelieving, unsure, tense, powerless


And, I cannot forgive until I see true remorse. I've more or less told my H this. I've tried to explain what I think remorse looks like. He tells me he's just not that kind of man. Has he already accepted divorce? Since DDay he's said he doesn't think it's going to work. He's also said he hates to think what life would be like without me. I can tell by things he's said that he's thought about divorce and how much his life would change. So, the lack of effort really pisses me off. Well, I guess I should see it as Miracle does - he is putting in effort- just not as much as will be required for me to forgive him.

Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
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Default  Posted: 7:23 AM, August 29th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgoodnamesgone... I know. Sometimes I push too much. I think I've read enough of your post to know what a wonderful woman you are... It is too bad he just act on what you need. It might be his fear too.

What does remorse look like to you? Too me.. it's this...
yet this is a woman that wrote this for a man... What is a man suppose to do to show remorse... write a poem, say it over and over.. cry??

Sometimes too.. Some people just cannot have it until after something they care for the most is lost...

It's a journey.

I have a book called "the five languages of apology"... maybe he needs this?

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:24 AM, August 29th (Sunday)]

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
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Default  Posted: 7:46 AM, August 29th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

good morning tribe


to have to ask for this to be filled over and over makes me feel even more fear, unbelieving, unsure, tense, powerless…

like with most things in life, practice makes perfect....this is really a postive thing with a positive persepctive...
eg. julia child, loved loved loved to cook, but had to practice ALOT to become one of the worlds best french chefs...she became a master, but not before she started several fires, burned many a dish, sunk soufles, added too much of an ingredient, not enough of an ingredient, didn't bake long enough...the list is become really good or proficient at something, yes we need to practice and we need and even crave the guidance to do so...when julia child had an issue she went to the experts for answers...not all recipes were easy to understand, so she needed it explained everytime she failed...but her failures didn't stop her from moving forward but gave her even more determination to succeed....and alot of us humans feel that way about many things in our lives that we try to accomplish, try and try again is one such phrase adapted for this as is if at first you dont succeed try and try again....we have so many phrases for this for people when they are trying to complete a why should learning how to love be any love someone is very different from actively loving them, you have pointed that out to us on many many occasions...for some of us the act of loving comes naturally, or does it, or is it maybe the way we were raised put us in a position to do just that, until we were betrayed, now some of us need to learn all over again because of that epic failure at loving through the betrayal, or learning to adjust through the betrayal, or even still loving anyway and hoping and praying as well.....when your ingredients are fresh any recipe is possible, however when the ingredients are old, the recipe may still be possible with a few tweaks needed to help it along, if the ingredients are rotten, then there is no dish to be made from that, before wasting anymore time and energy on the dish you get rid of the rotten ingredient and begin afresh with new igredient...

not all marriages can be saved, but if yours is a marriage that can be saved, the possibilities for happiness within that marriage are endless...especially if you are able to keep a "family" intact....


H took OW there for dinner and I'm NOT GOING TO TRIGGER!

i love that you are telling yourself that you are not going to trigger, i think you sometimes need to say it in order to do it...but given the circumstances of this possible trigger, how about "i am planning not to trigger and if i do i will do ____to take my focus away from my trigger, and then i will _____to put my focus onto _____and keep me centered, and i will do this as an act of loving myself..."

getting rid of our triggers is an act of loving ourselves is helping us take the focus over that which hurts us and putting it on that which gives us happiness....

does the process hurt...yes, until you master the recipe, once you master the recipe you have learned to create masterpiece....

enjoy those zeppole's fun, they are my favorite until i eat the one too many!!!

I am going to take H in the church where his parents got married and I am going to light a candle and ask him to reflect on his past and vow to be a better man.

and fun youpost whatever you need to at the moment...even if its not positive, because sometimes we all need to purge, get it out so it won't permeate and get hopefully it will be positive things and if a good venting is needed, then a good venting is needed nothing more ....maybe you should have one journal for positive and another for negative...and colored appropriately for the i think for the negative and maybe green or blue for the positive...and eventually white for the heavenly!!!

i love postive thought, i believe it holds alot of power but the realist in me the practical side needs to feel like i am think positively with a plan ...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, August 29th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

G'morning Tribe!

Well, I guess I should see it as Miracle does - he is putting in effort- just not as much as will be required for me to forgive him.

Allgoodnamesgone, I understand what you are posting, and I feel your frustration. By any measure FWW and I have a better M now than we did pre-dday. The problem is that is no longer enough. The bar for both of us has been set higher. We no longer want an acceptable M, we both want a great one in the aftermath of the A. She is doing much work on herself, she is improving, but there is a time limit. I do not yet know what that limit is?

When FWW had the attitude that it is just too hard maybe we should D, it pissed me off. I told her to commit to R and stop bringing up D, or let's just D. I think she has the message now. No D talk for a whole week

We had a goofy, fun night together last night. I remember when it was like this when we were dating.

I am reading a book for work on creating change called Switch. It also applies to relationships. The authors says that in most efforts to change a system there is a period where it looks hopeless and as the effort will fail. It is the teams and organizations that can push through this "it's not working" stage who are successful in creating change. I am trying to take this to heart our efforts to change ourselves and our relationship.


mmmmm coffee and donuts

It's gonna be a good day.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 9:30 AM, August 29th (Sunday)]

FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
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Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, August 29th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To: nofun and allgoodnames,

re: knee rubs

I get this sort of tentative reaching out from FWW and it is hard to see it for what it is, and not for too damn little too damned late. I cannot speak for your WS's and being men there may be a much different dynamic, but for FWW she is never certain what she will get when she connects with me on an emotional level. She is tentative, checking me out. This has always been her style; she will come home and "assess" my mood, the mood in the house in an effort to be prepared to control the sich.

Next knee rub, maybe take his hand, hold it to your chest and thank him for the support. Hold his hand to your chest and sustain the emotional connection as you then express how you feel and what you would like. Just an idea. I think a lot of our “negative” feelings and emotions leak out in our behavior, even when we do not want them to.

FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
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Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, August 29th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you so much for all of your kind words.

I think what Tryn's boundaries were, were what my boundaries were after the first DDay more than 7 yrs ago.

In therapy, I did lay out boundaries, the biggest being that I would D if this ever happened again.

Looking back, while I chose to believe we were fine after two years of IC and MC, there were red flags. I have been deep in denial.

Because he was so loving and caring, I wanted to believe he was never going to do this again. After the first time, I had a family intervention and outted him to everyone. We have three adult children, who were not adult the first time through. Two of our three children took it very very hard. Our two oldest barely spoke to him for a year. Both sets of parents are good friends with eachother and the rest of our huge family are all very close. I am so lost as to what to do this time. Everyone thinks the world of WS and would never believe he would do that again. I know I am all over the place adn I apologize. My mind is all over the place and it shows.

Yes, I am going through all of my mental files for the past decade and trying to sort out what is real and what is not.

Anyone who sees inside my M with WS would never believe what has been going on. On the outside, WS is a loving, caring, superb father, great friend to all, great provider, the main go to guy for everyone.

Since Dday #1 he's been nothing but attentive. I, however, have been trusting again and never in a million years thought this could happen again. Whenever I called, he answered, always called me back, seemed to always be where he said he was, always had stories to tell about where he was supposed to be (ie, at a business dinner, away on a business trip, always had stories and phone calls, and contact with me to make me believe he was doing what he said he was doing).

Honestly, I think it's time I talked with OW. I have her number. I have talked with her the first time through and she told me she was going to stay away from WS, that she didn't know he was married. What's worse is that the first Dday was because she called me to find out if it was true that WS was in fact married. He was lying to her for a very long time and since he is away for days at a time regularly, neither of us knew the truth. WHEN she found out the truth, she shouldve stayed away. Oh yes, I think it's time she and I really talked. Last time, I didn't want details because I thought it would be giving her some kind of power for me to be asking her for details. I wanted her to think she really meant nothing.

So much has happened, hopefully by writing it out I can sort through some of the wreckage. Another thing, I found out he bought her a car, in his name. Not to mention, just about anything else she may have wanted (hidden credit card).

I am angry beyond belief. Right now, WS is gone again. Supposedly with a long time male friend of his, who I now do not trust either, because he has been "covering" for WS.

At this point, I just want him to stay gone. I can hardly look at him. In my entire life, I have never hit anyone, and after the first Dday, I snapped and did hurt him physically, and I am afraid I may do that again.

I am seriously considering going to my daughter's home in another state just to get away. I go back to work very soon and just a few good days might help me get my head more clear. I just can't even think straight.

WS lived two lives for the past 10 yrs.
Me: 56 BS
Him: 54 WS
OW: 41
Married 29 yrs.
3 adult children

Posts: 11 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Midwest
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Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, August 29th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I do not know where you begin to recover from a betrayal as you describe. For now you are doing well organizing your thoughts, are you eating, drinking water? You have all the time in the world for the big decisions, so just take care of yourself for now. It sounds like your children will be a source of support.


FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
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Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, August 29th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Psndhart… This is my thinking.. It is up to you to DECIDE the enforcement of your own boundaries. I cannot fault you for trusting your H after you gave him a second chance. That is a very hard thing to do but, it shows the kind of forgiving loving person you are… So what! It doesn’t matter at this point. You showed how much you really loved him by giving him this second chance. Period. He then goes on to abuse and control you again. He showed you who he really is…

Based on what you tell us, he may be the goto guy, but for sure (100%) your H is very broken...He is not a good man.. he just isn't. I think your H is incapable knowing, having, living, being, a good man in a marriage. He is just not able to make a marriage commitment. He does not have the mental capacity to stay inside a healthy relationship. A poster UK here calls that “cake-eaters”. He does not have the talent or knowledge to describe, to solve, to fix, to show you whatever he feels is wrong with him and your Marriage. He just doesn’t.

"Honestly, I think it's time I talked with OW." Don't do it.. this is about your H.. not her! What do you want to hear? Your H is broken.

You have an opportunity to live happily now. You are still young. It’s now up to you to find what you need to become happy. Just like you fell in love with your H, you can fall OUT of love… I have come to learn loving is doing or receiving these things..

Words of Affirmation
Quality Time
Receiving Gifts
Acts of Service
Physical Touch

Your H has broken the most important loves to you for a second time… it is the love of physical touch..and more I'm sure... he gave that to a third party. Marriage is commitment that you promise to God, and each other fidelity.

You will find happiness once you make the decision NOT to love your H anymore to overcome certain feelings and become happy. You take all those things you loved your H with and stop them… You will find out quickly that Love is a CHOICE and all those feelings associated do go away! True, life is going to change. But hold on sweetie.. it is going to be fun.. BUT ONLY IF, you want it to.. only if, you make is so...

Let me give you some examples of loving things and not loving things…

Quality Time.. Start going out with friends… find a man friend just to talk… have a glass of wine.. take a trip with someone.. BUT, Go NC with your H… tell him to only contact you about business related stuff.. Refuse to hear it when he does call.. hang up.. erase all text and emails.. tear up any written stuff.. Just say to him to get the hell out and think about what he wants to split...

Stay around anyone that will give you Affirmation! Your grandkids think you are so grand… Do not listen to a word you H says…

Acts of Service… Start helping others… volunteering… a friend in need…. Never ever again do a damn thing for your H…

Physical Touch… Accept hugs from you kids, you friends.. a maybe a new lover. Never EVER allow your H to hug, touch you again..

and no need to get mad or angry.. take psotive actions!

I so hope and pray you happiness and peace… I know one day I could also find myself in your place. I know it would hurt.

[This message edited by trynhard at 12:38 PM, August 29th (Sunday)]

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
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Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, August 29th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Looks like there are couple of newbies here and I'd like to join in too. (Hi Laura)

It will take me a bit to learn names and situations but I sure do feel the caring and positive thoughts here.

R is going pretty well for us but I am still very broken hearted and feel very unsure about, well - myself I guess. I am reading "not just friends" and realize a lot of my struggle is in forgiving myself for believing ... well, just everthing and being deceived for years.
And, I so miss the "husband" I thought I had. Still grieving for this loss I guess.

Anyways... thank you for this thread. Looking forward to being in safe and understanding place

BW- Me 60 FWS - 65
M 43 years
DD June 9, 2010
On and off LTA with dept secretary
But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal Matt 6:20

Posts: 413 | Registered: Jun 2010
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Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, August 29th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

Our big day out went well.

Shopping good, beach walk good, movie (SALT) great.....

UNTIL the restaurant where he complained about everything!!! Noisy people, service, cost of food and drinks, size and quality of meals. I tried to make light of these and snap him out of it but couldn't.... and on trip home - other drivers (constant complaints) heater on too high, too low, whatever.

When we got home continued and I LOST IT!!!

Well deteriorated from there into me letting him have it about his selfishness ruining our evening and about more selfishness in LIES and continued dishonesty since Dday.

He of course got all SORRY and promised all would change but to every question I wanted answered "I don't remember!!!"

Haven't slept much and now have to get ready for work. He's off again tonight so will see what happens.

Haven't been able to catch up on posts - will try at work today and tonight but diificult when he's around.


Welcome again. I did read your post and am so sorry that you feel so duped after first Dday. I don't know what I'd do in your position. Listen to the wise people on here.


Welcome to you too. I haven't caught up with your story yet. KNow that we are with you in your pain.

Have a good day/evening guys


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
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Default  Posted: 8:21 PM, August 29th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

laura: i am so sorry that your day didn't go well...and even sorrier that he couldn't come through with what you needed with his answers....that just sucks...

all newbies, laura, hart and promise...( i shortened your names to a more positive spin, i think it helps some with feeling better about oneself...not letting our states of minds when we registered define us)...anyways the following is for all of you:

i hope you have all been to the healing library

i think it is quite important, imperative really for both you and your ws to be in ic and mc...

taking care of your own health needs to be at the top of the list, eating well, drinking non alcoholic liquids, and at least some exercise even if its just walking for 10 min a day...30 min would be ideal...

NO decisions need to be made right away...take all the time you need to decide what you need or want to do...the need and the want do not always go hand in hand...need comes first...

if you are in an abusive time needed..get out

NC needs to be immediate for any reconcilliation to take place and work...

NC for both you and your ws...that means you do not contact the ow either...there are a few exceptions here...for instance if the ow in your sich is willing to fill in the blanks so that you can confront armed with all the info you can gather...then by all means contact...and remember she is a liar too!! so take what she says as possible lies, and then compare the stories...otherwise...NO CONTACT!!

do not worry right now about learning who we are, it will come, just know you are not alone, we have all been in those overwhelming shoes...

recovering from an lta is possible...although you will never be the same, you will heal...nomatter the outcome of your marriage YOU WILL will take TIME...lots of have patience with yourself above all...

for all of us at si the rollercoaster is an awful ride...your emotions will change frequently...remember this is normal for ALL OF US...

take it one step at a time...somedays it will be by the minute on others it will be by the day or even the week..eventually that time span will increase as you heal

being proactive in your own healing will help the process...

this journey will take you places you never dreamed you could or would go...just know that you do not travel it alone and you will arrive whole again....

welcome to the lta corner...we have a tendancy on some days to be very chatty, again do not worry about trying to keep up with us, take what you need from us and ask us anything...weekends are sometimes slow in of us will answer hang in there...


[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 8:25 PM, August 29th (Sunday)]

i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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Default  Posted: 11:40 PM, August 29th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm still away on vacation but decided to peek in to see how the LTAs were doing....
Allgood... I'm glad to hear that you got through your triggering trip fairly well..

I am so sorry for what you are going through!
If you outted him to family and friends 7 yrs ago and he went to MC etc. and led you to believe that the affair was over....and then continued to see the OW all this time....well, he is a sick man....definitely toxic...selfish...
I disagree about not contacting the OW... I think that it is very important for you to know exactly what has been going on with him and what he continues to do now so that you can make the best decisions possible for yourself!
Do not... let him know your plan though....
perhaps it would be better to try using a keylogger on the computer and/or a VAR (voice activated recorder) in his car etc. or even investing in a PI could be worth the money if it brings you peace of mind.
My adult children (in their 20's also know about the LTA). They were upset and disappointed and very wary opf a reconciliation. Now, they are supportive.
If my husband ever had another affair he could kiss good bye any relationship with his kids! I know they would never forgive him a second time!
sending long distance hugs...

Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA

Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
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Default  Posted: 5:21 AM, August 30th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura28, I am so sorry your day had such a crappy ending, and even sorrier your WS dropped the ball when you called him on it. What do you think triggered his awful behavior in the evening?

Hi brokenpromise,

And, I so miss the "husband" I thought I had. Still grieving for this loss I guess.

I used to feel I loved my wife, if I could only finder. I now realize that she has been here all along, and I just need to get to know the real her. Self-forgiveness is tough, but do not be too hard on yourself for trusting the one person in your life for whom that should not have been an issue. With the hindsight of experience, many things are "obvious" that would not have been noticed in normal conditions. There are a great many studies that prove perception is based in significant part upon expectations. We expected our WS to be true, and we miss all the signs, we expect our WS to betray, and now we see warning signs everywhere.

Njgal480, I hope your vacation is going well, I hope all the ladies on vacation are getting the relaxation or recharge that they want.

Last night was a painful discussion, by content, not intent. We’ve had a couple of really fun days in the last week. FWW was feeling guilty about enjoying herself, that I would think that minimized my feelings over the A. I assured her that I want us to have fun, both of us, it is important. As we talked some things triggered a thought with crystal clarity in my mind, of course they had fun. FWW is a very fun person; joking, teasing, flirting. If she was looking for a “happier” relationship to have her needs met, it would be a fun relationship. If I had thought about it I would have realized this, I just had not. I “pictured” the relationship weighted by the negatives she is quick to share, but last night I was hit by what I had lost. She says she sees nothing positive or happy looking back, but while she was involved I know that she found in them the fun and laughter she was not able to find in me. This really hurt. I shared what I was feeling and she held me and rubbed my back. She said some very kind and meaningful things, she said I was romantic , and that I had an affair it would hurt her deeply to know I had been romantic (cards, little gifts, etc) with another. She could appreciate how I felt.

We did a lot of talking this weekend. Another topic is her fear of being “beholding” or needy. With her current medical problem, she is feeling this acutely. Contrast this to last week when I had some pain in my upper right abdomen for nearly a week. It felt like it could be my gallbladder. She was actually pleased at the prospect of me being sick so she could take care of me (I took care of her 10 years ago when her gallbladder was removed, and 15 years ago her appendix). She feels guilt for being sick, like a burden. Ah well, plenty for fodder for the next C sessions.

We talked about SI a couple of times. I do not see her posting, but she did seem interested in the site. She was especially keen to know if there were other WW’s. I assured you they seem to be everywhere, but I am especially sensitive to noticing couples with a WW. I assured her she would get a warm welcome if she ever posted in the wayward side, especially if she introduced herself, but I think she will stay a lurker.


FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
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Default  Posted: 7:12 AM, August 30th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow. I totally can't keep up. Busy weekend for LTA.

Welcome to PSN and Broken Promise. Since it will take you forever to get to know us -- I agree with the rest, don't even bother. You'll absorb us in time; right now you're in crisis so just soak up all the good advice while you're in shock and needing support.

Read that People Article about Elin Woods. She had no clue. And to everyone who says she should have -- HELLOOO did it wind up in the press about 12 seconds later after he was found out? Well, yeah, so he was pretty darn sneaky to keep it out of the press that long. Ugh. Anyway, it will make you feel less stupid.

Plus, I always remind myself of the long list of beautiful and successful women who have been cheated on. Just pick some. Heidi Klum, Christie Brinkley, Jennifer Aniston...

Ok. I'll give the crib sheet version of me for the newbies.

I'm 35. I have 4 kids; 5 months, 16 months, 3 and 8. I suspected WH was cheating last October -- took me about 2 minutes to find proof once it ocurred to me. Found out there were 2 OW -- but only have EA proof for the XHSGF (she's single, don't know her) and rooked other OW, who I refer to as OW into confessing PA via e-mail Dec. 1. (yes, same day Tiger scandal broke.) Anyway, WH had LTA with OW on and off since college -- started the latest "on" period with her 3 years into our relationship, about a year after we married. She has a son the same age as our oldest and we were very good friends with their family for 6 years, vacationing together, etc. Too long to go into. for the crib sheet version.

Anyway, That's me.
shockingly young to be an LTA victim (WH is about a decade older). I did confornt OW because she pretended to be my friend 6 years and that's pretty psycho, but in general I say no good can come of getting involved with OW's in general.

BrokenPromise -- Hi. Is your WS NC? Does the secreteary still work there -- because she's got to go. What is your WH THINKING? he must think he's on the set of Mad Men... ugh. If you rat out your WH to his employer, what could happen?

PSN -- Don't mess with this other woman. You don't know her. There's no point if she's single. Have your PI find out if she's married -- if so contact her BH. In not, forget it. She's just wasted her 30's on a significantly older MM who probably has no real interest in leaving his wife. She's got serious issues; or as one of my friends would say: "some women have daddy issues." My sister has a friend who did this. And essentially her friend finally did some majorly intense therapy for about 3 years to get over all of it. My sister said the whole thing was just sad and pathetic -- so there you go. OW is sad and pathetic with daddy issues and needs major therapy. she's a waste of your time.

Allgood -- you can't change the past. That's what I'd like too. Heck, I'd be happy with Wh saying he wouldn't do it if he could go back. I might even be happy with him saying he'd have stopped the time she ratted him out and I didn't believe her (newbies -- OW tried ratting WH out in early 08 and I just didn't believe her. Why my WH would risk our M for HER I have no idea to this day. I'm glad I didn't believe her though, must have really pissed her off, LOL.)
ANYWAY -- Can't happen. part of healing from this is accepting that bad choices were made. You will have to reach this acceptance whether you R or D so there you go. Personally, I went to MC by myself for 3 years of the A because my marriage was suffering and WH disagreed so part of processing it for me has been coming to the realization that I can only control myself and I did my best.

Laura -- ask him to use your name.

ATS --

if someone climbs 200' up out of a 300' hole, they are still in the hole.

Exactly. 'Nuf said. I get you and you're right. Is there a time limit to climbing the hole? In my imagination, my WH is in the hole and it's POURING RAIN. It's getting slippery. It might cave in. There's no set time limit, but the whole endeavor could become impossible at any moment, and it's hard to predict when.
ATS -- why do I imagine your WW as a redhead?

Nofun -- have you read Divorce Busting? Might be a good read for you.
your WH is emotionally retarded. Walk over to him, grab his arms, put them around your waist, say "you're going to hug me now for two minutes and then we're going to go have sex." you'll get your hug.
As for the bimbos -- when he looks at a bimbo, joke -- ask if you need to go kick her butt -- and then when he laughs tell him you will if you need to, and then gently let him know it upsets you. Something like, noticing who he's looking at: "OMG, is that hootchie coming on to you? Am I going to have to kick her butt?" he'll laugh. "I'll do it if I have to. I need to defend my turf because I love you very much." He'll laugh again, and probably be pleased. Then you can say "I really do love you very much, and it makes me insanely jealous to see you checking out that girl. Go easy on my feelings or I might just go postal on the poor thing and then you'll have to waste part of your vacation bailing me out of jail."
Only talk about positives in your M on vacation. Unless something really bad happens -- but make sure it's not YOU who makes anything bad happen. And, yes, take a break. Go for a morning walk alone and come back with coffee and donuts, etc.

ATs -- your WW sounds CRAZY anxious. She needs more meds. I seriously doubt you'd be "unsure" if you had a prolapsed uterus. Ugh.

As for the BPD -- I have a book for waywards about how to choose whether they should be with their spouse or AP. This is paraphrasing what it says about mood and personality disorders:

mood disorders -- someone is over the line when his mood affects his ability to function AND your ability to function. This isn't charitable, I know you marry in sickness and in health, I believe that but you're deciding between two people. YOUR LIFE IS AT STAKE. you owe yourself nothing less than spending it with the solidest person you can find.

THEN there is what you call personality disorders. This isn't where someone has a bad mood. This is where someone is weird and puts everyone else in a bad mood. YOU CAN'T BE INVOLVED WITH PEOPLE LIKE THIS.

So, that's my take on BPD parent vs. BPD spouse. Or NPD spouse or ANY "PD" spouse.

Later, peeps. Fake it 'til you make it!

BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
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Default  Posted: 7:30 AM, August 30th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well tribe...I'm off to the beach and won't be back until after Labor Day.

I wish you all peace.

I'll catch up when I return....oh I won't because you are all so chatty!!!

Love you all

BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
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Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, August 30th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ATS -- why do I imagine your WW as a redhead?

ahhh, you must have missed the photo a while back. She is a petite blond.

She needs more meds.

She was off of her Wellbutrin for a few days, she did not get the refill picked-up. I think she agrees she needs to stay on it now.

She is seeing an OBGYN on Tuesday about her prolapse. She no longer things it is, it is.

FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, August 30th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Waving out a hello to you! I'm not too chatty on the Board nowadays, but I wanted to post specifically to you. I had two ddays spread out over several years....H had the LTA, we did MC/IC & I thought we were "ok" but not great. Then dday 2 struck with only several weeks ago me getting the "full disclosure" of my husband's past activities.

All this to say, I had dday 2 in 4/09 and despite almost everyone advising me to leave at that time... I stayed. H came clean a couple months ago and is in a 12 step recovery program and I believe this is making a big difference. Time will tell, but he seems to be trying to unravel all his childhood crap now in a way that he hadn't previously, even with prior IC. My IC says it is often like peeling an onion-layer by layer and H never got to the roots/core of his behavior the first time around. My H, like many of the LTA'ers, had severe childhood abuse/mother issues.

Anyway, don't know if I am going to stay married or not, but my two young children are a big factor in my having stayed so far. I've got my boundaries in place again and I am prepared to leave this time if I find out about another A. With the holdout on telling me the truth until a few weeks ago, I have given H this school year and then will reassess where we are and how he has progressed.

Your H is a very, very broken person. YOU did not deserve this. YOU let him build back trust and that is what marriage is *supposed* to look like. YOU did nothing wrong. I repeat: YOU did not deserve this. I tell you this, because you need to hear it. Because I know the pain and self-blame you are probably putting yourself through. YOU are not the problem. YOU are not the cause of his poor choices. But you ARE in charge of your own recovery and healing.... and implementing SELF-CARE is your highest priority right now. Try to lighten your load, get a massage, go on walks with your friends, all the great suggestions Tryn gave. You have been through a trauma and you need to baby yourself right now.

Please, please make sure you have a good support system in place, an IC to help you sort through this mess, etc. You can not do it alone. Trust me when I say that...ok?

And feel free to PM me anytime. I think I have probably been through most of what you are feeling now.....and I'm still on that roller coaster with my recent dday regarding past infidelities.

((((TRIBE)))) You guys ROCK. All of ya are awesome and chatty and I LOVE that we have some men on here, too......the LTA has evolved


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, August 30th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...and I LOVE that we have some men on here, too......

Thanks heartbroken, but I would be more than happy to have left it all to Tryn and dip.

FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
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Member # 29455
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, August 30th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow. So much light and love here. Thank you so much "tribe".

First, thanks Tryin and the rest who said not to contact OW. I am sure I shouldn't now. And, no she is not married or I would out her to her H.

Second, I am NC, and seriously considering divorce since that was the biggest boundary I had in place. TO. NEVER. CHEAT. AGAIN.

Third, iwantamiracle,ats,Laura, and the rest, thank you also for all your kind words. Geesh, what a loving place. I feel grateful for finding you all.

hearbroken, you're situation sounds very similar to mine. I do think a twelve step program will be in the works for WS. I have often wondered if his issues were sex addicted related.

M3-Oh yes, I do believe OW has serious issues. I should add that she had no awareness of my H being married in the first few years. He snowed her too. I blame my WS for most of what is going on, but still, I now see no reason to talk with her. She obviously has deep seated issues.

WS is trying to talk to me, I am still on 180. Only passing eachother ocassionally in the house. He is living in the family room adn I have the rest of the house. When he tried to talk to me, I cringe and walk away. I can't look at him yet and doubt I can for awhile. Right now, I could care less if he did leave to go be with OW. She would certainly not be getting a prize, but only a wounded, sick, broken man who she can enable if she so chooses.

Oh and thanks NJGAL. I did hire a PI, which is how now my world came crumbling down. Otherwise, I may not have known for another ten years. Wow, you are on vacation and still posting.

I am eating, but barely, and I am walking alot, so I think I will be ok.

I still haven't told the rest of the family, but I am leaning toward another family intervention and leaning heavily toward regular twelve step meetings as a requirement for me to even talk to him in the near future.

I have to go see my mother, but thanks again for all the replies. I am absolutely amazed at the bonding in here, even if it will take me forever to figure everyone else out.

WS lived two lives for the past 10 yrs.
Me: 56 BS
Him: 54 WS
OW: 41
Married 29 yrs.
3 adult children

Posts: 11 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Midwest
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Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, August 30th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe it's the influx of the stories of people with more than 1 A that is getting to me - or maybe it's all the drama of the 1st Antiversary - but I just can't remember how it is that I'm not supposed to be disgusted by the fact that he had sex with me & ow, did the same things, told her he loved her, missed her, etc? How is it that I am supposed to think that anything good that is happending in R is not a whole load of bullshit just like it was while the A was ongoing?
Yes - he seems to be more interested in me/our M - but all I can think about is all the people who said that was the way their H was behaving as well - only to find out the A was ongoing?!?

Told my H that I was thinking about some things in the past that has me feeling hurt today & asked for help. He told me to remember he loved me & wants to be with me. I told him that was always the case. He responded that he guesses he wasn't thinking about losing me at the time.
So... I am left with someone who loves me & wants me now, who is willing to treat me better, but remains someone who was completely unbothered by F-ing 2 women at once & lying to me on a repeated basis to keep it going.

It seems to me that the only recourse I have is to just take my chances (trust, but verify), which is really less than comforting - especially when I think about all the crap he did post-DDay that doesn't exactly inspire confidence that this was a life changing experience for him.

Am I missing something?

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 11:30 AM, August 30th (Monday)]

Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

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