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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 19
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks miracle

this is his new reality...we all get one now...new realities....what each of decides to make of it is purely ours.

This new reality is scary.... I don't know what our marriage will be like in 2yrs, 5yrs, 10yrs....Will I always resent the betrayal? will he get over the guilt? will he want to? will he cheat again?

......but it's also quite exciting.

If I can heal from the pain and he can commit to fidelity then I believe some "Good" can come from this. WE had issues in our marriage (other than OWs!!!!) and we are starting to address some of these.

Did I reaally say that - "Good"????? Wow


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

laura:

exciting...wow, that is a new one, i have to say its not only an interesting perspective but a really cool one...awesome in fact...to be able to see the good that come from it...so yay you...so many of us are wrapped up in "it doesn't matter how much good can come from it, the measure of what was lost cannot outwiegh it"mode...when in fact IT CAN...as long as your perspective can stay that way...

intention + perspective = reality

and perspective is half of that equation...

none of know what the future holds, those of us that once held onto expectations are learning that lesson now, expecting is not always the same thing to the people involved...what you expect from your marriage and what he expects from your marriage can be 2 different entities...boundaries need to be set and repsected...you meet them, great , you don't then there is an issue...

do not look so far ahead laura, stay in the present, one day at atime...set short term goals as is reasonable...do not go to far ahead of yourself...best laid plans and all that...one step at a time...and yay that you are thinking with such hope...big YAY


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:38 AM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

G'morning Tribe,

Laura28,

If I can heal from the pain and he can commit to fidelity then I believe some "Good" can come from this.

Early on I swore that I would never be one of those talking about the good that her A's did for our M. But, I can envision a much healthier M, or at worse a healthier her and I D'd, and it is because of the A. In Not Just Friends, Glass refers to an A as radioactive material. It damages and burns everything exposed to it, but it also holds immense power for change.

A new pattern is emerging between FWW and me in discussing the A’s and other issues. She is raising the topic almost daily now as she process with me the things she has thought about during the day. It is sad that we have been married for 20+ years, raised 4 children, and were never much more than roommates. I have mixed feelings as we discuss our relationship. I am inwardly happy that much of the breakdown actually was not my “fault”, but I worry that about blaming her for everything and missing or ignoring my role in our problems and the things I can still improve. She is reflecting on her relationships with the OM, how they started, what they meant, or did not mean, to her. Some of this is painful to listen to, but all of it is clarifying.

She talked about how as a girl she listened to her mother complain about her father. She grew up thinking she was different and that the failure in the relationship resided within the men she was dating, her xH, me, or the OM. In her mind, it had to be the relationship partner and could not be her, because she was treating others the way she wanted to be treated, and they seemed happier than she was. She sees now that she was repeating what she saw as a child. She would form a relationship, wait for that relationship partner to figure out her needs and wants and fulfill them, and then complain when she was not happy. She would go to work, friends, or family, and there was always someone willing to participate in bashing the ineffective spouses. These “friends”, co-workers, family members, all validated what she was feeling. Very few ever said anything like, “have you talked to Atsenaotie about how you feel?” If she did talk to me it was not in the style of when you do this, I fell thus. Rather, it was more “how could you be so mean and treat me like I am stupid or unimportant? Why aren’t you able to be a better husband/father?” I, of course, became defensive, and an opportunity to understand and address our damaged foundation was missed; over, and over, and over. She says that she is going to talk to her DD’s about what she is learning; in part to try to break this cycle, and in part to let them know that she was wrong about many of the complaints she shared with them about me.


Last night she told me what she wants me to prepare and do for her when I go with her for her surgery next month. She wants some games, things we can do along with talking to distract her and keep her occupied. Of course, I told her I would be happy to prepare these things, and thanked her for letting me know what she wanted and needed from me. This contrasts to about 7 years ago when she had another surgery. I went the hospital with her and took a book. As we waited, I was available for whatever she wanted, and read to pass time when there was nothing going on. This is what I would have wanted from a family member or friend in a similar situation. I am very introverted, and when stressed I turn inward to process and calm myself. I do not need interaction, in fact, it would bother me, but I do like knowing there is someone there with me if I want or need anything. Well, during that other surgery she was angry with me for ignoring her by reading my book. She wanted me to distract her and interact, help her to process her feelings. Instead of saying anything, she read a magazine and steamed at me. She told me I could leave and go to work if I wanted to. This is just one of the hundreds of examples through our relationship.

I am feeling very grounded. I am trying not to empower the dday antiversary. I remind myself that the many events that happened were a different FWW, she had a different perception of herself within relationships. For now, with her pending surgery, childhood and other disclosures she is sharing with me, the A-crap seems distant and not terribly relevant. Had you told me when FWW and I were engaged that someday I would be the communication facilitator in our relationship, I would be helping her to resolve deep emotional issues, I would have laughed. I was serious, technically oriented, and not at all touchy-feely. FWW was the social worker, the woman. I made her “responsible” for the emotional health of our relationship, just as I was responsible to take care of the vehicles or house repairs.

--Ats

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 8:41 AM, September 1st (Wednesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

when I begin to feel too good...yes, that's right..when I start feeling like I can forget about the affair that's when my subconscious kicks in with a wave of panic... and I suddenly trigger... start thinking about how unbelievable the whole mess is... how unbelievable that my H was capable of having a 5 yr LTA and for me to not know it....and even more unbelievable..that I have reconciled with him after an LTA!!

Holy crap! Me too! And Ijust figured this out recently too.

Strongish: I'm glad you have a game plan. Keep us posted on your progress. At 1 year out - I'm not routinely sad/distraught like I was, but I just long for a "normal" relationship and seriously question how that is possible short of a lobotomy. My H&I are both getting frustrated with the pace of the progress but remain committed to the process. So, that's enough for now.

That's all I have time for now. G2g.
Peace out.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal and allgood: stop waiting for that other shoe to drop and enjoy your "present"...if it happens it happens, but that should not be a deterrent to enjoying the here and now...stop living in fear...the fear does not protect you, it does not shield you, it does not do anything constructive when in fact it is quite destructive there is this saying

what you fear you create...so create something else...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

what you fear you create...

I am deathly afraid of becoming a lottery winner. Not scratch-offs, but a double digit millions, could not spend it all if you tried lottery. Scares the crap out of me that this might happen, and then what would I do? How would I tell my friends and family? I think I am going to start worrying about this at night too. Just think of all the freakin' taxes on that money. I shudder.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle - thanks for the pep talk and Ats - thanks for the laugh.
Seriously - I have work to do... seize the day!!!


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The crux of the matter, or part of the crux, is that he regrets how this has hurt me, but I don't think he is remorseful for the act(s).

Strongish -- yes, this is the exact problem. BUT it's early days yet. He might feel different when (if) he de-fogs.

I am going to suggest you 180 him. JMHO.

I will NEVER say the A was good for our M. I was SO happy and even though he said he wasn't in the heat of anger while he was all drunk, he was too. You can see it all over his face in every picture from before the A. Whatever. He can re-write, that's just a form of blameshifting. He'll figure out he's wrong eventually.

DISCOVERING the A was a very good thing though.

Ok. I'm still pondering my list. First, I'm going to add outing OW to it. Second, this is going to be totally weird maybe, but yesterday I got my hair cut. I got bangs for the first time since high school and I look really different. And something about that struck me last night and I realized I'm still not 100% ready to ask for this list. Because I need to be 99% sure that if he does it -- it will be enough. It feels unfair to ask and then figure out NOTHING would be enough. So, I really need to explore my feelings more on this. Maybe I'll just have to have the talk and then I'll know depending on what he says/does at the talk.

njgal and allgood
I really think more about the LTA when WH is NOT with me. When I'm with him it doesn't bother me as much. But I do sometimes look at him and think "he is such an ass" and when I think of him and love I always think past tense: "I loved him so much."

Poor Mrs. ATS. Is she in pain?


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hellooooo! Checking in with y’all. I’m back from my travels to New Zealand, seeing DS25, DS24 and DS22 and I had FABULOUS time! It was great seeing them and being with them. DS24 took several days off work to spend with us. DS15 adores and idolises him and so loved being with him. We paid for any of them to bungy, skydive (from 15,000ft )and paraglide – DS15 did all three and was well pleased with himself! I did a bungy and a paraglide and found out something – I am a little scared of death, which was a surprise. As I teetered on the edge of a ledge on a bridge over a river, I was struck by terror. Until the moment I had to dive off, I was fine. Before d-day I would have been sweating cobs at the very thought, so I guess my upturned world had a profound effect upon the way I view life and death, I think I’m a little less concerned until the potential moment presents itself – and then I didn’t want to. Strange.

There is so much catching up to do, but I just wanted to dive in before I take off again for a mini-SI meet at the weekend It’s down south, so that means staying away for a couple of nights and I might take in an extra night and see my older brother who is doing the family tree research with me (well, more him than me, truth be told). On the way down, I will be dropping by a few villages that my mother’s famil y came from. I found out that MOW’s village is one of them. It’s tiny – a church, a pub, a restaurant and four streets of houses. Un-fucking-believable. I haven’t told FWH. I’m not sure how to tackle it as my brother (like the rest of my family) don’t know about my situation.

FWH is away until Friday night and I leave Friday am, if I don’t come home til Monday, he will be away again so I won’t see him until Tues. So I shall be zoning out big time.

I will read the last 5-10 pages later when I get a chance. There's too much to go right the way back!! Meanwhile, hugs to all, welcome to the newbies and hello to the lurkers!

And yes, FWH finally came through. He did well. Very well.

ETA, I had said "For 48hrs only" but I won't be here then so this pic is just until I leave Fri am!
This is us on the last night:

**poof**

Miss them like crazy.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 1:54 AM, September 3rd (Friday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

have zero time again, but needed to say HI UKGIRL, welcome home for a short stay...and you look postively mahvelous sugah...

totally.....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ukgirl..
Glad to hear that your trip was a success!
you sound happy...


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome back UKgirl , ummmmm see you when you get back.

Glad to read you had a good trip. Nice picture, lovely looking lady in the center.

--Ats

m334455,
Ms Ats is having more discomfort than pain from the prolapse. Mostly the idea of aging and things slippiing out of place has her a little freaked.

I do not think your list has to be an exclusive "if you do these things, then everything is OK" You can re-frame it as "here is a list of minimum requirements you can start on. If you are unable to achieve or show significant progress on each of these, then there is little hope for us over the long term". We guys love a task list, simple, concrete, can do.

...waiting for the other shoe to drop...

At least with FWW, it is not like she only has 1 pair.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

Was posting in R this morning and had an insight:


I think it is important to take time together to just BE with your WS.

The worst part is worrying that triggers and subsequent arguments or sadness will spoil it.

My husband and I have been trying to have "Us time" once a week for at least 5 or 6 hours.

During this time I try to "Pretend" - put the affairs aside - so that we can enjoy being together. I say "Pretend" because of course I do have those momments but I can usually say to myself "I'll get upset about that later". Doesn't always work but often does.

We need to feel and express the pain in order to deal with it. But I also think we can let the pain (and the affair(s)) take over our lives. One of my aims at present is to control it at certain times. I do not want the pain and the affair(s) to define what my life is. For me that would be more giving OWs power. I refuse to let them win!!!

I'm sure many people have thought of this before but it really hit me this morning.

UKgirl
Lovely photo. Looking forward to getting to know you.

(Sigh) Have to get ready for work now (7.15am here). Try to get in touch this evening.

HUGS

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3 i agree with ats...give him the list...you aren't making any promises, this is your list of your new boundaries for a partner..these are requirements for any relationship to feel like its on any kind of solid ground...youre list isn't out there and i don't think you need to worry about..the man needs to prove himself to you..


1) biweekly IC
(2) post-nup designating certain assets non-marital property
(3) no friendships, i.e. complete NC with any and all former romantic interests
(4)WH must lose weight and get back into the same kind of shape he was in when he played NCAA sports.

They are all non-negotiable.

all of these are not only reasonable but healthy for him as well...and the post nup in itself is quite telling that this may not work...that you are preparing yourself for d if necessary...

so go for it..

ats: so you fear winning millions...what a conicidence...SO DO I!!!


laura: i love how you are what seem s like constantly striving to see the good perspectives, and you are being so proactive in your healing...i am quite impressed at how well you are actually holding it together...so yay laura...

ukgirl: i am so happy that your ws finally came through...its about time, yay mr uk...and you look so amazingly happy...you look like you got a piece of your soul back being with your boys again...

and an si g2g, yay...and i am getting the impression that you are truly enjoying yourself, letting go and just being...living in the moment...so yay you...

(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 5:27 PM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A rough MC session today. I know we have to be honest, but..

It hurts when we talk about how she kept me at a distance and does not feel love for me.

It hurts more when she says she does not consider me a friend, and has not for most of our M. She did (not anymore) think of the OM as friends, she was fond of them, she shared with them. I know that was all A-crap and in the past, but it hurts, more than the sex.

I disclosed a behavior to the MC that FWW shared with me, but did not want me to mention. I am glad he is now aware of it, but I am anxious about the fallout.

It makes her uncomfortable when I compliment her or say/do nice things. She thinks I am doing it just because we are in therapy.

Afterwards she said she did not want to do weekly sessions, maybe every two weeks. I still want to stay weekly, but it will be a busy time the next month or so and we may end up not scheduling some of them.

The MC seems to think it is OK, but I do not understand why she is still here going through this if she does not feel love, does not see me as a friend. If I felt no love for her, and had not, I do not think I could do this in the hope of a better future.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 5:43 PM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKGirl: You look & sound so happy!

Laura: you are correct in your approach - I'm glad you are able to do it. I really have a hard time enjoying him, only in the rarest of occasions over the last year can I say I actually legitimately had a good time with him. (We're not talking about sex, right? cuz I'm able to put off my rage for that...)

Ats: last night my H looked kind of distraught. He doesn't show emotion readily so I was taken by it. He was saying how during the A & prior thereto, he knew I loved him, but didn't really show it or wasn't "in love with him" and to an extent, he said, he knows that's how I feel now. I didn't tell him he was wrong - hence the distraught expression. After thinking about it, I told him that I'm just not happy enough to feel that kind of emotion. I actually have to stop and make myself look at how wonderful my children are - it doesn't come naturally anymore - happiness, I mean. Anyway - maybe that's what your wife is going thru?


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 6:27 PM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats: your wife is a broken woman who is incapable of pure love except maybe for her children, and even then i am not so sure...she is broken and i believe she doesn't love herself at all, which is why it is so difficult for her to love another...you cannot truly love another til you love yourself....and i don't mean the type of love of self that means ego related...

there are plenty of people who do not love themselves the way they should but have a huge self respect...

there are plenty of people who do not love themselves the way they should but have a tremendous respect for human life...

then there are the people who do not love themselves, do not respect themselves and have little respect for others...i believe this is where your wife is...and the few people that she did or does respect have let her down...including you...it seems like she's had these huge expectations of you, and i think of you instinctively knowing her and all her needs, which is ludicrous, noone could know all of someones needs without being told what they are and how they should help fill them...so i think because you didn't "read" her needs, she is mad at you, and is opening up to you now because you are showing her what she always wanted from you....

i think she needs you BIG TIME ats...as long as she is willing to help herself with and through you i think you need to do this for her and yourself as well, because i don't think you could live with what might possibly happen to her by her own hands without your loving guidance...BUT ats..this is a big but....if she crosses too many lines you will have to be strong enough to let her sink...or swim..even if that means you divorce her...as long as she is working hard, support her...when she stops...so do you...and you will move on with the knowledge that you gave her your all, gave the marriage everything you could and gave the mother of your children every chance possible....

and if that day comes you move on, and still supporting her but from the aspect of family, not husband...

and i am prayin ats that it will remain as husband because it is so amazingly clear to me how much you love this woman, now if only she could see it and then believe it...

of course i could be off base...if that is so that i am sorry...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood: i am getting the impression that your husband is beginning to open up, really open up...and this is wonderful allgood, truly wonderful...whatever you are doing with him...keep it up...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:30 PM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats...
they (WS) are very screwed up individuals when it comes to how they think about themselves etc.
One thing I do know for sure... they absolutely need IC... to figure themselves out!
MC is different.. it's more about the dynamics between the two of you in your 'new normal' post d-day...
In your case you are using MC to force your WW to face up to the truth... ideally, she should be doing this in IC and then coming to MC to discuss couples issues...
My husband went to IC 2x per week for the first 6 months post d-day and then he went once per week for another year! And...then we also went to MC for a total of 6 months (2 different MCs..first one was a kook...)
and I went to IC for around 3 yrs....we also went to Christian counseling sessions with a minister..and my husband went to 90 AA meetings inthe first 90 days post d-day on top of the IC....
yeah.. the revelation of the LTA definitely created a major psychological crisis for the nj couple!
We were both VERY screwed up...
and we needed every bit of all of this intervention to keep both of us from jumping off the nearest bridge!

and..yes, Tryin... on top of all these interventions I was trying to push Retrouvaille also...

so dropping your MC session to 2x per month? IMHO not a good idea... you want to keep the momentum going at this point...
often people want to drop IC or MC when it starts hitting a nerve... if IC is too much fun well then you know you're not really digging for the truth...

Laura..your positive attitude will help you recover from this...
just one word of caution...
don't brush things under the rug too quickly...

miracle... you sound upbeat also!


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 6:44 PM, September 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal:

how are you feeling today?...i hope better..

and i agree with you about the ic for ats wife...

miracle... you sound upbeat also

pretending my way there!!!


dealing with triggers, a few small ones, a few large ones,....pushing them away....i will fake it til i make it...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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