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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 19
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:05 PM, September 6th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

so here I am not sleeping again I read a reply gerrygirl made to naplesmon24 about R-ing with a ws who did not feel love for her. This really resonnated with me. Lying in bed with FWW, I know she wants to feel love, but she does not even see me as a friend.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3964 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 11:25 PM, September 6th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{{Ats}}}

I'm here too. We are at sis-in-law's clearing things out so it can be rented for mid-month. Being here is one major trigger but I am sucking it up and hopefully this too shall pass... I took my pain meds & a xanax about an hour go but just can't shut off the brain and go to sleep.

Honest: you have got good advice already so all I can add is {{{Honest}}} of support and strength for you to carry out what you know is the best for you and your boys... no words for your H! I can't believe his gross sense of entitlement.

{{{LTA tribe}}}

my access is limited and intermittent as I'm using public access in this area. the joys of being across the city from the comforts of my home. Nite all.


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 2:30 AM, September 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

well crap, I swallowed on Ambien, chewed the other, too late to try a third.

everything was fine until she rolled over and said she wanted to try sex, like I can just flip a switch (yes, 10 years ago, today, not so much). Then I lay there thinking how she suggested it to me as an after thought at the end of the day. I had said I wanted sex this weekend, and 10 pm Monday is when she had the time and interest. She would make time and coordinate to please the OM, but then she loved them. What is sex to her anyway? Not love, Hell, she says that we are not even friends.

I am going to take the long, hard bike route into work in a few hours.

Just like the old days, I am looking forward to her being gone in a couple weeks and my folks visiting.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 2:32 AM, September 7th (Tuesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3964 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:17 AM, September 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats:

Try not to dwell on this:

She would make time and coordinate to please the OM

As you know (I'm just going to remind you) this is the nature of the beast. You HAVE to make time and think ahead, etc. whenyou are sneaking around. The risks and impropriety of it all just make it just that much more thrilling.

It is what it is. We all experience and resent it in different degrees, myself included, for many different things - not just sex- but attention, "love", etc.

She was initiating sex with you - that is a good thing!


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, September 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((lostsoul)))

it sucks when you cannot turn it off...

ats: it is not always easy for alot of women to initiate, i do know and understand where you are coming from, she initiated though, didn't she....

i also think you need to constantly remind yourself that she is not a well woman....not an excuse but a fact...

be careful biking..


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, September 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Busy weekend.

ATS -- it might have taken her all weekend to get up the courage to initiate. Just a thought.

.i think you need to make plans on all these dates and make new memories, new anniversaries that are NEW and improved..

Miracle is right. I think I instinctively knew this when the docs said Baby Paddy's day was set -- I thought about begging for a different day, and then realized that it was meant to be like this -- the day was being given back to my family. Then, when I went in, already in labor even though it was 2 weeks early and the others were a week late -- it was just so clear.

So, take all those days and make them about something else.

Look, ATS, she screwed up big time and it HURTS and it's not a fast or easy fix, and she didn't hit the ground running either, but she's working on it steadily now, and you still love her, so just keep chugging.

I know she says she doesn't feel love, but I honestly think she doesn't quite know what love feels like. We know it's not the same as what you feel for your kids . . . she has nothing to compare it to.

I think you need to make her feel SAFE.

Honest, meet Allgood. Allgood is a divorce attorney. She is your new best friend.

I'm so sorry your husband is a jerk. But he is. And the only thing worse than what has already happened is that he manages to get the upper hand with $ and custody, etc. He's the kind of guy who is going to blind-side you with that. Protect yourself. Oh, and you might want to see if there is a keylogger/spyware on your NEW LAPTOP. It's what I would do.

That's about it. I had a great weekend. My husband has been different, in a good way. We went to friends for the weekend -- there was a couple there we hadn't me before and once they left there was all kinds of gossiping about them. apparently she was wife #3, and they're swingers. This guys wife #2 was the "real deal" according to our friends, a awesome, classy woman, a younger and prettier and more interesting version of wife #3 but apparently wife #2 didn't get the memo about the swinging thing and when she caught the guy with FOW/wife#3, she got the kids, house $ etc.

I said something to the effect of "it's funny how wives have a way of not appreciating that sort of behavior" and I was washing bottles, my H came up behind me and wrapped me up in the biggest hug ever and told me that I'm awesome and he loves me so much and he couldn't live without me... it was very sweet.

I think he sees his alternate reality a little better these days. I tend to point it out -- our friends trashing the father from the kids class who had an LTA and involved his kids with OW; this guy at the party now married to a blander, older version of the wife he loved and shelling out cash everywhere for his kids that he never sees -- the woman was pretty, but rough. I think she might have been younger than me, but she looked older -- "she's nice enough, but she doesn't really have anything interesting to say about anything and she looks like she's been rode hard and put away wet" is how my H described her.

Anyway, he seems to be starting to "get it".


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, September 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you everyone for all the advice and support. I know I'm sucking it up like a sponge right now....I need it to survive.

M3, thank you for sharing that story. It's the reality these people don't see.

Ats, "turning a switch", that's what so many women feel, especially those with young children or "working" mothers. We're doing so much, often without much help. It's like hubby sits there on the couch waiting for his turn, without engaging with the family and then says, let's make love.


Posts: 1900 | Registered: Jan 2010
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, September 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((honest))): you soak it all up and then some...realize that you not only deserve it but it is endless support...and keep posting...


m3:

Anyway, he seems to be starting to "get it".

very gently, do not bank on that just yet...it takes more then a weekend, a month or even several months of him behaving his way til he gets there...reserve your judgement on this one...



i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, September 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm back....great weekend with DD at her college parents weekend. We had so much fun, but it hurt to hear her talk about how much she misses her Dad. He is away on business, as always, and couldn't be there. (Our kids have no idea that WH had an A and would be shocked.) Her comments reinforced to me that we have made the right choice in not telling them any details right now, but it also makes me feel more trapped. Do I stay in this M in order to keep their world(s) from being destroyed? I know that I'm putting the cart before the horse here, we're only a little more than 2 mos. post DDay, but I feel stronger when I feel like I have options.

I had sent my WH an e-mail last week that basically told him that I was working to realize that I cannot control him, could only control myself and that my "generosity of spirit" was the only reason I hadn't kicked him out. He was not particularly communicative in the two days after I sent that, but his texts to me this weekend were very upbeat. We'll talk today via Skype and I'm actually pretty nervous. He can always talk circles around me so I know I have to stay calm. I've caught up on the posts here and most of all I want to take the advice posted about imagining that this was another woman in my shoes and think about how I would tell her to act. I've re-read my e-mail several times in order to remember how strong I felt when I wrote it. Keep your fingers crossed for me!


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, September 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, this is going to be tough and I hope not too long, but I'm posting this for several reasons: for the newbies, for clarification, and for myself. IC wants me to get mad instead of just internalizing it and curling up into a ball.

Met WH 22 years ago after xWH left. We were friends first and we fell in love.

Even then, I always felt WH pull me in close and then push me away emotionally. Drove me nuts.

We weren't sure about marriage. For me, I would start all over again with kids and my sons were 10 and 14 at the time. For him, he would have "instant family" and have to deal with teenage boys. I understood that. We were both trying to be realistic.

Three years into our relationship, WH told me he was cheating on me. I was ready to leave and WH showed remorse, begged me to stay, wanted to marry me, etc etc

I gave in.

We married in '92 and moved in together with my DS's who were 12 and 16 at the time.

I gave up my job and had DD/angel in 1994. Full term. Chromosomal disorders. She lived 4 months. Right before or after she died WH suggests that maybe we separate because we weren't making love often enough and I was depressed.

1995, DS15 born. (Yes, I got pregnant within a month after DD died) Again, WH suggests we seperate because we weren't making love often enough (1-3x a week with a newborn were he is NOT helping one iota)

Around '98, WH starts business overseas. Wants me there, but I am pregnant with DS 12. In '99, we move over there and spend the school year there.
We stay for the school year and come back to visit for Christmas and the summers. I teach over there for 2 years.

9/11/2001. I have tickets to fly 9/13. All flights are cancelled. I am afraid to go overseas and my oldest DS is a NYC firefighter WHO WAS THERE in World Trade #7 15 minutes before it fell. Working 24 on 24 off for months.

10/2001, WH secretely marries OW. Not even her family knows.

I do go back in 2002. Same routine.

I am not sure about the time table at this point. OC #1 was born in 2003? WH buys them an apartment, furniture, etc etc.

The rest is still jumbled up. All I know is that while I was overseas, WH was with OW and had OC's. When I was here in US visiting during the summer and WH was still over there because of "business", OW and OC's were staying in MY house instead of their apt. OW sleeping in MY bed, using MY stuff. Staying at our beach house. Etc etc.

One of the worst things is that WH named OC #1 (a girl) almost the same name as MY daughter who died. Named OC #3 a name he suggested for OUR DS 12 that was his languages version of the same name as MY DS #2. I had said at the time that OUR son would have brothers the same name.

Well, WH named OC #3 that name anyway.

So, all these years, I've been going back and forth from here to overseas. When I wasn't there, OW and OC's were in MY house. When I was there, WH would see them. Tell me sometimes he had meetings at night, ate at the office etc.

Our kids were going to school over there, BUT OC's were in a more expensive private school.

DDay, last year at the end of May, not sure of the date. WH tells OUR DS's he married OW and then divorced her and they have 2 sisters and a brother. Since they are unhappy and confused, WH blames ME and my reaction for this. (still does)

WH told me story, and said he divorced OW, she tricked him etc etc. I found out some info from others none really from WH.

DDay #2 found out WH never divorced OW.

The reasons I was given for this? Because WH was never satisfied with "the quantity or quality of our sex life" and I was often depressed/down. (sure, leaving MY sons and mother here for a large part of the year to live somewhere where I don't know the language is easy)

This is getting to be a novel, please excuse me.

I was trying to stay for a while for several reasons, mostly financial. I also had stupid blind hope that things would change.

WH keeps saying that we will grow old together, he wants to buy us a new house, etc etc

The other day I asked how was this to be if he was married to OW. In his fantasy world, we would be travelling together when we retire, but when we visited his country to see his kids, even if they are married, he will still not divorce her and stay with her some nights and me some nights.

WH even said he wants to bring OC's over here for a few years.

Of course all this time WH tells me I'm his only love. He doesn't love her just with her because of the kids.

Ok, in my magical thinking, I thought that MAYBE I could tolerate OW there, me here for a few years while I get myself financially ready. I thought, perhaps, WH and I could work out some kind of co-parenting/friendship with benefits kind of deal while I detach emotionally.

WH makes this difficult. He keeps bringing up subjects that are so triggery and if I explain this, he just gets angry.

I feel like I'm living crazy.

I feel like I'm crazy.


So, WH did not leave me and marry and come back. WH married OW while we were married and lived life as a bigamist, although it is a legal marriage over there.

WH borrowed a lot of money from me. Not working all these years because I was travelling with WH has not helped my financial situation.

Right now, WH is paying all household expenses/ child support/maintainance.

WH thinks we are fully married and there is something wrong with me when I ask for information or emotional support or reassurance that I am driving us apart. He says I am killing him. WH says he doesn't call often when he's overseas because I drive him crazy, I always sound angry. (actually, I'm sounding neutral... I KNOW THIS. I am NOT talking in an angry tone or say anything mean.)

For the record, during all the years I've known WH we never argued until DDay, and even then I NEVER EVER said anything mean or nasty. I do NOT name call, or hit below the belt and stick to the subject at hand.

I think I shouted at WH during the whole time we have known each other 3-4 times. Believe it or not, this is true.

We have always discussed things calmly.

But I do know the pattern. If Wh gets mad or angry, he gives everyone the silent treatment which could last for hours to days, and I am the one who has to apologize whether or not I am wrong.

As I'm writing this, it all seems so sick, sick, sick.

I'm the frog that was put in cold water and the heat is slowly going up....I am dying and allowing myself to be killed.

As NJgal said to me, it's the BPD mother that has us trained.

I am struggling.

I can't thank everyone enough.

Please, please keep up your prayers for me.

{{{{{{Tribe}}}}}}


Posts: 1900 | Registered: Jan 2010
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, September 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((honest)))

Please tell me that you are getting some IC. I know that it can be expensive, but it is the only thing that helps sometimes. This is really important for YOU and for your kids.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, September 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((honest)), thank you for putting all of this out here. It had to be painful. I am glad you have an IC to help you wade through all of this.

1-3x a week with a newborne. I was doing half the care and did not get it 1-3x a month the first few months.

btw, I think that m334455 had good advice about checking the laptop for keylogger/spyware.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3964 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, September 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi folks, I’m back from the trip that was an SI g2g (see down in F&G) and a stay with a friend and then my older brother.

I’ll catch up and read properly later, but see that you mentioned New Zealand, so I’ll just let you know that my boys are fine. I knew nothing about it until I spoke with FWH after getting a request for non-related info from DS2. FWH answered his phone with “the boys are fine and too far away from the earthquake to be affected. And they weren’t in the plane crash either”. Not good to hear that when I was driving!!! They are about 200 miles away, but DS1 is going up to Christchurch (where the quake was) on Monday with his work. He says it’s all fine. The plane crash was a sky-diving trip and all were killed. That was 200 miles away on the west coast, they are in Queenstown. And yes, they have sky-diving there. DS1, 2 and 4 did it while we were there.

Thanks for thinking of me and mine. I’m just very glad they are away from both incidents. Catch y’all later tomorrow. I have “things” to do!


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, September 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i gots like 5 min...

honest:

fist and foremost you are living crazy and YOU ARE NOT CRAZY...I REPEAT YOU ARE NOT CRAZY..

i agree with your therapist you need to get good and mad...yelling, screaming mad...

you need to do an exercise when the boys are not around and you have more then several hours...

break down your story..and ask yourself how it makes you feel each sentence...and then ask why, after you answer that why, ask why again...and keep it going til you get to the nitty gritty...

make sure your windows are closed, blast some rock music...stand in the center of the room, have a bucket handy...begin to yell at him in your head, tell him how what he's done has affected you, how he's hurt you, how he's disgraced your dd angel...how he's hurt your son's....i want you to scream at him all the vile things you could possibly think of...

set a timer before you start to 15 or 20 min....

the bucket is if you get so so upset that you need to puke.....

after you do this, journal....

then give yourself some breathing time, and if it is possible, a hot shower with nice music this time....let yourself wind down...and then if you can take a nap...

it is really a freeing experience.....

or even go to the lirr and as the train passes, scream til it has passed...

you need to find ways to allow yourself to feel it..

and you need to keep telling yourself that its ok to be angry, its ok to get angry, its ok to yell and scream and let it out....

its ok honest, it really is ok.....you are allowed, you are entitled and you need to release it.....

i gott go pick up now and do dr's with the boys...bbl

((((honest))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, September 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm back from vaca....and I'm concerned about you Honest....I am praying for you....Hugs to all....I'll try to catch up.


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, September 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I tried to edit the story.


I was travelling back and forth from 1998 to 2009.

So all those years....

don't know when it started..

DS 34 says it had to start way before they married....

BTW, WH had paternity tests done on OC #1 and 2. OW cheated on her fiancee to do this.

She's 15 years younger than me, worked in WH's office and YES she knew about me. I saw her, (before I knew) I was there with our kids.

He paid for everything for her...doctor's bills, etc etc.

Took a home equity loan out on our paid off house...up the yahzoo.

WH says to me let's just live a normal life, everything will be the same as before and better.

Sure, as I sit here and he's in the shower, his cell phone rings and it's her.

He calls her several times a day or she calls him and he calls back. WH says it's because of the kids. BS.

I guess the reason I feel so very devastated is because no matter what he says about not loving her and I am the only love of his life, I SEE what is going on.

I feel like he has chosen her over me. A beautiful, sexy woman who is 13 years younger than me.

WH gave her everything that was mine, WHILE we were married. It's not like we got divorced and then she moved in, which is an all too common scenario.

WH had the gall over the last year to ask our DS's , especially DS 12 (was 10 going on 11 at the time) if there were any toys he did not want to give his sisters and brother who don't have much!!!!!

WH tried several times over the year to buy stuff for the OC's while I was with him!! He says, I don't accept his children and he accepted my sons from my firts marriage.

What an idiot!!!! He met me, dated me for 4 years knowing about DS's , went on trips with us, etc. Full knowledge. There is NO comparison.

Sorry, I'm just venting. I have to now, or else I'll go crazy.

Been having an anxiety attack all day. <sigh>

Yes, I am in IC and taking AD's and a anti- anxiety med at night.

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 1:42 PM, September 7th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 1900 | Registered: Jan 2010
let it be me
♀ Member
Member # 29103
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, September 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((tribe)))))
been too long since I have read in here...

honestly, it is a trigger for me....

fear just overwhelms me, so I get up and walk away....

finally sat and read the last 12 pages since Texas has decided to 'bring on the rain' today...

Y'all are going through sooooo much and I wish I could just hug every single one of you, grab your face, look you in the eyes and tell you what beautiful souls you are!

I see life and love in your words, even in the darkest of your hours! Y'all are truly inspiring for someone like me, not even 8 weeks out yet!


Me/BS/40~Him/fWH/42 Both in IC
MC put 'on hold' till my IC agrees
DD~07/19/10 R on hold till my IC agrees
BP1 DX 10/2011&Complex PTSD 7/1998
"There are no mistakes in tomorrow"

Posts: 337 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Eastern NC
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, September 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{honesttoafault}}

It is all gaslight, rationalization, and bald-faced lying. He chose himself over you, not her. In Helen Hine's Sexual Detours, she writes that if you want to see your next AP, look around you. It is not anyone special, just available. In this case, the pretty package is just gravy. When you start out a family by paternity testing all the kids, it does not look good for the future.

I am just armchair psyc-ing here, but I suspect that you are the outlet for the negatives and frustrations; she is the happy place. So long as he has you available as a whipping post, this three-legged stool will remain solid and comfortable for him. As soon as you begin to breakaway, the stool becomes two-legged. This is a much more dynamic environment where she and he will both have to balance out all of the emotions, good and bad. They may unite against you as a common enemy for a while, but as you recede, they will be left with just each other. I know that you are no longer looking for R, but it might be satisfying to see them both get their just desserts (of course until you are healed and happy and neither of them mean anything to you).

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3964 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, September 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest - You are a good woman, you are kind, honest, a good mother, generous, loyal and WH is a damn fool. Just saying.....

(((((((((((honest))))))))))))


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 7:17 PM, September 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fun!!!!!

How was your vacation? And, how is your H's health? I missed you!

Honest: you have every reason to be mad, sad, etc. You also have a lot of wonderful qualities and people that care very much for you - wonderful children - you will get through this and be happy again. Sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better. I think you probably were unhappy, but got used to it, or because of your mother, you thought it was normal, you would've put up with your H's behavior indefinitely. So, now he's pushed you so far over the edge you have no choice. Clearly, this is your darkest hour, but all that means is you will soon be getting your "fresh start".
Keep the faith.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

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