Do you feel something may be up, or just you being overly sensitive?
I think I'm overly sensitive. I think any sliding into the old behavior sets me off a bit. I think he thinks he's working his ass off and that he's under constant attack (good thing he's not married to Allgood!) and he's probably just frustrated. I do think he thought I was trying to peek at his blackberry; but I really was just trying to hug him. I didn't even realize he had his blackberry until he turned away a bit. He seems to have something going on at work -- and is a bit stressed about it. I think the e-mail thing was more about me being out of putting the kids down and him wanting to hang out with me rather than check his e-mail. I have access to that account anyhow. I think the uncertainty from him is probably my mini-180 showing. I'm not crying, accusing, etc. anymore. And my phone is dead, LOL. As I said, my friend this past weekend, and now my Mom people are all remarking on how relaxed I am, how great I look, etc. I'm moving on, and it shows, and I think he's afraid that I'm moving on without him. That's not my plan -- I'm hoping he'll come along for the ride -- but I'm not going to cancel my trip either.
But, I do recognize what (else) triggered me now. Guess I have some talking to do. I did promise WH that I'd talk to him about my feelings from now on rather than bottle them in.
and laura, i screwed up before when i posted, i wanted to offer my condolences and give you some
it really sucks to go through so much huge stuff all at the same time...
gotta go bbl
Early in MC, when asked what she wanted, FWW told the MC she wanted to have an affair with me. She meant I would be attentive, affectionate, we would do fun things together and I would make her feel good.
Today in MC he asked what we wanted going forward in our M. FWW said she wants to have fun and be able to lean on me when things are hard, and have us compliment each other's strengths. No mention of frendship, no mention of love. Essentially, she wants an affair. That is all she needs or wants. Someone to call when she needs to process, someone to tell her she is doing good, and in exchange she will barter with sex.
Except for the guilt and fear of being caught, the A met her needs. She was OK, and if they pissed her off she could move on. Problem with me is she cannot move on now.
Is there a rule that they have to be happy about transparency?
I don't even check his phone anymore! I just don't care. Big giant why is my husband so pissy all the time problem was solved -- he's a cheater. Ta da! Now he's stuck trying to prove a negative, not really my problem.
I love him dearly, but he's going to have to fight this battle all by himself.
Bad morning here. Nothing actually earth-shattering happened, in fact WH is again out-of-town, which makes me even more discouraged that I had a meltdown. Can't pinpoint any reason other than yesterday's IC session where the C gently told me that at some point I'm just going to have to accept the injustice and the fact that WH may never be able to meet my emotional needs. I know, I know, we're still early in the process but it all seems so hopeless to me today. I also picked up Not Just Friends to continue reading. I had started it but put it down for a while. It is so painful to read at times. So...here's what I'm thinking....I'd like to write out some questions for WH to answer. If I write them out he can take his time in answering. These are tough questions like:
- Did you ever feel guilty?
- How did you feel differently with OW than you did with me?
- Did you ever think of me while you were with her?
Stuff like that. He has a difficult time identifying his feelings (if he even has any anymore) so this would give him time to really examine what happened instead of feeling like he had to come up with something quickly. The book is heavy on having "civilized" conversations and we try but I usually end up either very angry or in tears. Have any of you done this? Was it helpful?
I asked questions, she answered with lies (of omission so she thinks they were OK) for 6 months. When I got the additional details (I will never know the "truth") it was more than I would have ever thought to ask.
So my advice is to ask for a timeline of events. If he only has to answer what you ask, it is too easy for you to miss a topic. You can always ask specifics in addition to the timeline. Was OP ever at our house? In our house? In our bedroom? etc. Which hotels did you meet at? What gifts were exchanged?
Once I got the additional details, much more of what sustained the A made sense. For me, it killed most of the mind movies, although some of the details were presented so that they were especially hurtful and continue to cause me pain. Unfortunately, the 6 months of TT may have killed my ability to rebuild trust with her soon enough for her.
did you ever feel guilty....
pfm: yes, that is why i abused you less
did you feel differently...
pfm:i don't know, i never thought about it
did you ever think of me when with her...
i asked so many questions...none of them helped...
had he ever did a complete timeline, each timeline contained more as he went forward...still don't have one that has it all...he likes to omit..had i gotten a complete timeline i feel that would have helped...
don't get me wrong i would still aske above questions and then some...i cannot know enough...these women knew way too much, i don't like that these women know shit that went on in my marriage that i don't know...but i have come to realize that i will never know....coming to grips with it is part of our undoing....i needed it all, it was a dealbreaker...so we are broken...and sadly i guess we were always were, i just never knew how broken....
ats: i think your wife does huge avoidance...wants all the fun and none of the responsiblity so she doesn't have to face so much of what she must to heal.....
m3: glad i was wrong..
wants all the fun and none of the responsiblity
I think this can be said for most WS in general.
I have to say that this is a big issue between my husband and myself. Well, actually, I believe the core issues are more like a lack of respect & poor communication skills, but I've only come to that realization post-DDay.
Prior to that, I would say our relationship deteriorated because my H seemed to think he was single, not married with kids, which left me as the working single mom of 4, which tends to create a lot of resentment in me.
This was highlighted earlier this week with the kids' return to school - as I came home from work (after my H), made dinner, cleaned up after dinner, took care of the "baby" (who hangs on me constantly) and went through everyone's bookbags & organized everone's supplies, etc. Where was my H? Watching tv by himself. This was typical, everyday behavior prior to DDay. Now, prior to D-Day, I would've been loud and complaining about it. This time, I just asked one of the kids to bring the baby down to Daddy so I could get everything done in peace.
Little off topic there - but my point is selfishness at its core. I don't think that gets undone, to be honest. I think we can be aware of it & choose to handle it in a non-offensive way, but it will always be there. (For example - instead of me bitching out my H about doing nothing with the kids, I sent him a text today saying we really should make a point of doing more family stuff with the kids this weekend.)
O- and M3: I caught your comment about your H being lucky he's not married to me, lol. Something tells me you are not exactly going easy on him either - you are just more patient than me.
If you think you have the general gist of what their relationship was like - I don't know if you really want to hear that they held hands, etc.
I think once you understand what their relationship was & can put it into context of what was going on in your M, you will stop thinking about their relationship so much. (Not that it's any picnic after that, but at this point, just forward momentum or reducing issues is a good thing kwim?)
asking questions is also perfectly normal...
your questions are NOT too tough at all.
Your husband had a LTA for heaven's sake!
I was crazed after d-day... I screamed, raged, threw things.. and I threw my husband out of the house... we were seperated for 6 months. He went NC immediately with the MOW and he was very remorseful from day one... begging and pleading for me to take him back. He would email me all the time and leave notes in the house when he had to be there to drop stuff off etc.
Meanwhile, I was calling all of his co-workers, his boss, the MOWs husband...you name it..I told everyone...our kids, our friends, and family.
I would call my H at 3AM and scream at him...my reasoning was I couldn't sleep...why should he have that luxury?
and questions? I asked him everything... every gross detail... I also got a lot of information from MOWS husband and then would confront my H with that info and evidence. I even met up with MOWs husband in person (he was a nice guy).
My husband went to IC immediately after d-day and he continued going for 1 and 1/2 yrs. He also stopped drinking and went to AA.
He sent flowers to me weekly...he called my children and my sister and apologized to them for hurting me.
I went to see attorneys and ended up filing for divorce!
He continued fighting for the marriage..
He did write out a timeline of the 5 yr LTA...dates, location, and what level of sexual activity...it was fairly easy for him to do this because most of their liasons happened at work conferences, conventions, workshops, training sessions...and most were yearly events.
I think for us the seperation worked... I was so crazed that if he were around me he would have been on the receiving end of all of my craziness.I went to IC and had to go on meds for my anxiety and depression.
I literally shook for 3 weeks or so post d-day..like someone with Parkinsons disease...I barely made it through work everyday.. I had a very understanding teacher in the room next door and she would usher my class into her room and we would team teach... but, really, I sat in a chair and stared into space...
My husband later sent her flowers as well to thank her for helping me during those weeks..
I think that what your husband is going through is very typical for FWH after d-day...lots of anxiety, guilt, sadness, anger... all can be mood killers...
and we as BS are extremely hypersensitive (with good reason)...
Hope you're right about this. It's Sat morning here and I'm at home. H works evenings 2.30-11.00 pm. I had high hopes for today but he's very "busy" with chores outside. Guess he's still not in the mood. Sigh
When I was going through false R, I felt I was left holding the bag and waiting for WH to come home to talk. Not much could be done on the phone. We would hang up and I would be left alone crying my eyes out. Left alone for more than 2 months.
I understand why you feel so frustrated. It is very very difficult.
I could only suggest that you guys try to keep in contact more than just a daily phonecall. Do you have Skype or another such internet connection? There are a lot of internet phone things too. I would also email your WH everyday, or as much as you want. Just writing it out to him can be good, especially since I remember you saying he can talk circles around you (as my WH can)
Your WH can also send flowers via the internet . I know it's not much, but sometimes it does help getting something like that.
DAMN DAMN DAMN.
I hate him and I love him too.
Is all that charm real?? I see him do it to everyone. He can seem so understanding of people too.
He is just a drug I'm addicted to. I have to stop the addiction for my mental health, for my life.
I don't need to know every detail, but there's still some things he's saying that don't make sense. I believe that's because he doesn't want to remember too much and because as our MC/IC said, he moved on when he ended the A some 18 mos. ago. He put it behind him but it's still fresh for me as I only learned about it a little over 2 mos. ago. From what I know, he really didn't treat her well and she sounds pretty pathetic. But he also says that he/she broke it off several times and then they would restart the relationship. So why did they restart? And how does to correspond to what was going on in our M? We did some work on a timeline night before last which helped me put some more things in perspective. It helped in some ways but not in others. I think he realized that when we look at the calendar some of the reasons he said for why he had the A, just didn't add up. For example...he said that he felt like I had "given up" on our M, but 6 mos. after he started the A we started MC at my behest. He stopped going as he wasn't getting much out of it, come to find out that he also never told the MC that he was seeing someone else! And he didn't remember that he actually did have private sessions with her as well. So, that took that argument off the table.
I asked him tonight if he is making progress in IC and he said that he is. He trusts our C and that is huge, I know. So why do I feel so crappy? Maybe tomorrow will be better.
I'm overall not sure how I feel about this book. It keeps telling me that I should be calmer, but there are days I'm definitely not calm. Anyone have any feedback on this or other books that helped?
He would admit to "deceiving" me, "lying by omission", etc. but kept just short of admitting that he out and out lied to me for 5 years. His explanation was that if I had asked he would have told me that he was having an A! Yes, clearly ridiculous but in his fog he thought that this meant that he was still a man of integrity.
I too asked for a grand gesture. I had no idea what I wanted, just something that made me more important than MOW. None of it worked. And Iíve pretty much had them all. He still says he will do anything and spend anything to make me happy again. Iíve learnt it doesnít work like that. What I really want is my life as it was and Iím never going to get that. The one gesture he canít give me.
Now the questions
Did you ever feel guilty? Yes. No. All the time. Not when I was with her. Only at the end.
How did you feel differently with OW than you did with me? He never thought about it other than it was an escape.
Did you ever think of me while you were with her? Same as Q1. MOW complained that on their last sojourn of 5 days, I was ďwithĒ him the whole time. Well, boo-hoo.
Have any of you done this? Yes. Several times.
Was it helpful? Partly. I gave him a timeline too, with dates and events to help him ďrememberĒ. He still minimised and lied. I gave up and made my own version of the truth.
From what I know, he really didn't treat her well and she sounds pretty pathetic. But he also says that he/she broke it off several times and then they would restart the relationship. So why did they restart?
Good luck with getting your answers. Be prepared. They may not be the truth, they may not be what you want to hear.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 4:46 AM, September 11th (Saturday)]
WH was such a good actor, that I really didn't see???
Tiny lecture: Please, please carve out a life and independence for yourself. Reread the posts from allgood, tryní and njgal. They have given clear and excellent advice. Do it. Please. You will get as much support and ongoing advice as long as you need it. First step Ė lawyer up. Like yesterday.
Laura, it sound like it could be psychological. Guilt kicking in? Whatever the cause, donít leave it too long (a couple of weeks) before getting some help. Meanwhile, talk about it. Tell him he has to talk about it.
Does anybody feel regret that they married their spouse?
Finally (this has NOT been a short time for postingÖ..)
Is there a rule that they have to be happy about transparency?
[This message edited by UKgirl at 5:21 AM, September 11th (Saturday)]
and about your husband's suggestion about keeping Skype on all night while he sleeps.. I would have him do that! I really would!
I would be crazed if my husband were traveling to the same places where the affair happened...I couldn't handle it...eventhough I really do NOT believe that my husband would ever cheat again...not after he witnessed the damage it had created for everyone....
but.. my triggering is not always based on anything logical... so, it would be very, very difficult for me...
I totally understand why you are having meltdowns etc.
Are you going to IC?