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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 19
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:35 AM, September 11th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest....
Do you have a favorite young niece? or a female friend?
Imagine if that girl or woman came to you and basically told you ..... the story of your marriage..and described to you the way that your husband is treating you and your boys... the fact that he is living a double life...
what advice would you give your friend?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:45 AM, September 11th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All good....
I did the same thing in marriage....I basically allowed my husband to act as if he were still single.
I allowed him to go out and 'party' with friends after work.... I allowed him to sit in front of the TV with a beer or a drink while I did EVERYTHING for the children and held down a full time job and did a ton of volunteer activities in the community....
Oh, don't get me wrong.. he did at times engage with the kids and with me..do some stuff around the house etc.
He was a 'functional' alcoholic.
But, it's only know..after d-day..after our marriage has been completely ripped open and all the rules have changed..
It's only now that I have a husband that is 100% devoted to me, the marriage, the family... and.. it is very, very different from what we were living even before the affair...
He had allowed himself to go out and have 'fun' even before the affair... so, when the MOW (who mirrored my husband in terms of her detachment from her marriage and her family)..when she came along and introduced him to the idea of how they could have this no strings attached sexual affair in addition to being drinking buddies....oh what fun!...
it was basically a continuation and a ratcheting up of what he had been doing all along...
acting single while having all the benefits of knowing their was a loyal, devoted wife at home keeping everything running..
so, a similar story...
but, like I said...now..everything has changed..in addition with his sobriety... there are tons of former drinking buddy friends that are no longer in our circle..
everything about our life has changed post d-day.
It does make me sad that it happened so late into our marrige..but, I guess better late than never, right?
I think that for you.. and MM33... you should look at it this way.. you are younger... and if you can get your marriages on track now..think of how many wonderful (quality) years of marriage you can have!
But..like I said before... it is a lot of hard work...for both of you.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:49 AM, September 11th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats...

read the first chapter or the introduction of the PISD book.
I happened to start reading it again last night.. and the first few paragraphs describe how people's attitudes about marriage have changed... how today they are looking for this 'excitement' in their marriages...
as opposed to valuing what people did in the past- loyalty, devotion.
and friendship,comittment.
and Dr. Ortman attributes this unrealistic search for excitement to the growing divorce rate...


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, September 11th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We had fallen into the typical marriage doldrums, we were taking each other for granted etc., we did stop havinf 'fun' together.
The marriage represents work,responsibility, problems,reality etc.
The affair is...fun.. a chance to escape from reality..to have someone lie to you and flatter you..a chance to drink and party...
I think your comment about work, responsibility, problems and reality hit the nail on the head for me. We had always made time for each other – his excuses emerged only after he had started the affair. We had a good sex life, had fun, spent time together, got parents up so we could go away, etc.

But things were not good at work – there was a nasty time when H was trying to find a way out of his contract of employment which had a covenant saying he couldn’t work in the industry for a year if he left. And he was being poached by a competitor with a very attractive offer. I think he felt trapped and we (the boys and me) represented responsibility. MOW offered escape and (although he would never admit it) an alternative if his employers hit him hard and we lost everything. And I mean the house, the car,savings - the lot. He went to the competitor and his employers took him to court. I did as much as I could to support him, even going through all the paper blitz of receipts showing his hotel and entertaining bills!!! We never engaged a lawyer and did it all ourselves. It was a real possibility that things could go very sour. He could have gone to MOW, leaving us with nothing, picked up and started again with her. The case went on for two years. It drove him near to the edge, although appearances suggested he was determined and strong.

I was part of the problem, even though I was his support. She was a solution of sorts. And an escape from reality.

I find it hard to think about forgiveness when I analyse what he did and why. Sometimes it seems so cold and calculating. But am I trying to put it down to one “reason” or is it a myriad of circumstances that led to the affair? Or is it just that he was plain arrogant and selfish? IDK.

how people's attitudes about marriage have changed...
I read somewhere that the divorce rate for those married over 30yrs has gone up 60%..... I've been married 30yrs this month.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 11:50 AM, September 11th (Saturday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, September 11th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I thought "Just not Friends" was excellent.
I would say I read portions of it every 2 months or so. I wish I had read it earlier in this debacle.

Thank you for your words NJGal - it's comforting to see someone move on from similar circumstances.

Gotta run... at some point these kids are going to want to eat or drink something, so off I go...
Peace to the tribe!


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, September 11th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am spending the day with my OW I was not able to take her out today so we are at her place working on all the little maintenance items (she is high maintenance). I hope to take her out tomorrow with DS to run up the river to hear a favorite band. One of my joys in life is to take her out and see the envious looks from the men (and some women).


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 7:06 PM, September 11th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i have no words, fresh out...so just

(((((tribe)))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:03 PM, September 11th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgirl: I see what you mean about acting, and they were just leading a double life. I guess I wonder about him acting because of his NPD traits.

I really wish it was clear that it was NPD, but sometimes he seems so normal and generous and nice.

NJgal: I don't have a niece or a daughter, but I know what you mean. The first reaction to my sitch is to RUN!!! But there are other things I have in consideration that I don't want to mention on an open forum, and also the finances.

It's about time to really get that moving.

It's so hard to do things in a month's time.

DS15 is upset and angry and resentful. Both DS's keep talking about visiting overseas. DS 15 tells me I'm keeping him from going, I'm keeping him in prison (sounds like WH), and it's a knife in the heart.

I am really working at detaching. I am doing my own 180 in a weird way. I am trying to ACT for WH's NPD fuel. It's a conscious thing for me to feel in control.

I HATE PLAYING GAMES. I never have. But, I'm acting as nice as I can, but putting up boundaries in my mind as much as I can. Maybe I'm not playing, I am surviving and fighting for my life and sanity.

I'm trying to formulate plans to carry through. Form my own relationships without WH.

One thing that helped today was that we went to WH's cousin's house for a family party. WH's cousin was giving him some digs about how WH acts like he's God's gift to creation and it went right over WH's head. It made me feel good that at least there is someone who actually SEES WH for what he is!!!

I guess I need that validation, because everyone thinks WH is SOOOOOO wonderful.

I hope everyone had a good day. We were in Manhattan today, quiet there today. Passed by the Empire State Building and I thought of my grandfather who was an electician working on it when it was being built.

God bless America.

{{{{tribe}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 5:57 AM, September 12th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I basically allowed my husband to act as if he were still single.
I allowed him to go out and 'party' with friends after work....

I did this too and never thought anything of it. I TRUSTED HIM! H met OW in a bar, she was in a "bad marriage" and he was her KISA. I think she divorced hoping that my H would leave his M.

Things have changed drastically here also, no more going out, no more seeing drinking buddies (most of his friends were single). We have "new friends", we are trying to do "new activities".

njgal is correct...those that are younger have more years to build a new marriage, a better marriage. Sometimes I day dream and try to picture what my M will be in 5 years or 10 years and if the pain will subside and I will be happy in my M. If I can respect and trust H again, if I can love H again without the A always getting in the way?


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, September 12th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DS 15 tells me I'm keeping him from going,
You are not keeping him from going, you are looking after him as his father is not to be trusted. Put to him the length of the deceit, that WH has betrayed his sons as well as you. That staying in the US is the safest and best option with regard to his freedom at this moment in time. When he is 18, you will consider giving your blessing, bearing in mind that he will be adult and more able to deal with any “situation” he may find himself in. Currently, WH is doing all in his power to keep you and DS’s under his control. You are not imprisoning him, you are keeping his freedom safe. His father has made choices that did NOT include his DS’s and he kept secrets and lied and he still lies. He is not to be trusted. That you are being “reasonable” for the sake of the boys and DS15 accusing you of keeping him from his father is going beyond “reasonable”. It may feel like a knife in his heart, but his father put the knife there.

I basically allowed my husband to act as if he were still single.

I did this too and never thought anything of it. I TRUSTED HIM!

I allowed my husband freedom, I never put constraints on him or queried where he was or what he was doing. If he wanted to “play golf” all weekend, he did. If I wanted him around for dates in the diary, I would tell him well in advance. I thought loose reins were part of making a happy marriage. One thing’s for sure, MOW would have fixed his diary up so tight, he wouldn’t have had time to play golf! That irony still sits with me – I trusted him when he was not to be trusted and now he is probably at his MOST trustworthy, I don’t really trust him and, what’s more, I don’t give a fuck. I don’t really listen when he says where he’s going and where he’s staying, don’t bother checking the flights, don’t even bother noting the flights. When he’s gone, I just zone out. And when he’s here, I watch him with his blackberry, wondering if she has his number.

The affair (the main one, anyway) will always be there. It has served to separate us. The only way I will be rid of MOW is if she dies. I do wonder if it’s really over. I can see her coming back for another try. At least I know how I’d deal with it.

Today, he’s golfing and I’m painting DS3’s room. In my old clobber. Which I hate him seeing me in.

And he’s acting a little strange. Not sure if it’s to do with me being hyper alert after yesterday, or if something is going on. A bit too attentive, kwim?


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 3:33 PM, September 12th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal480,
You recommended two books for me; Post Infidelity Stress Disorder and Walking on Eggshells. What I find interesting is that both of these books I bought specifically for me to read, but FWW read them before I could and she found them insightful. They are also both books she made fun of when she saw I ordered them, but before she read them.

Ladies,
Since FWW is reading “my book” Walking on Eggshells, I have moved on to another on entitled how to improve your marriage without talking about it by Love and Stosny. I am only partially through this book, but I can recommend it for understanding why your husbands react as they do in some situations. Some of the anecdotes they use in the book could be word for word experiences I have had. While I am getting better at talking and doing feelings, this book is dead on for much of how I was/am. I suspect that it is true for many other men. I am not saying this book is an excuse for behavior that does not work for you, but it does put it in context of what comes natural as opposed to him just being an insensitive jerk. I still need to work to communicate with FWW in a manner that she accepts and understands, but this book does a good job of explaining the baseline male internal thoughts and feelings.

UKgirl, I gave/accepted FWW having a great deal of freedom too. I was proud that I was comfortable and confident enough to let her live her life. She says she thought that meant I did not care about her

Honesttoafault, I would be inclined to escalate with my DS if he started ranting about prison, and show him what real prison and restriction is like. Not a healthy response, but my initial reaction. For better or worse, you are the only parent he has. A biological father, who spends much of his time away, is married to another woman, and blames is wife for his issues is not a parent. Your DS I presume is welcome to visit with his father whenever his father is around. Just a question, does your WS stay at your house when he visits? If so, maybe as a part of the 180 he should stay at a hotel when he visits so long as he is married to OW? It is inappropriate for a married man to stay in the same house/bedroom as another woman. I know you are worried about the finances, but that is his control over you. He is not going to allow you to have financial independence. I presume his assets are primarily out of this country, and that the OW would have more success forcing him to share “joint property” than you would. If you take action sooner rather than later you could at least have CS has a condition of visitation.

Conventional wisdom is that the A damage must be repaired or on the way to healing in order to then address the underlying M problems. I am in an interesting situation where FWW really cannot deal with the A issues to the degree I would like until she is in a better place emotionally. In fact, if she does not love me or see me as a friend, I understand there is little incentive for her to be open and truthful about the past As. I am confident that I am safe for the time being as we go forward. Beyond that, I am really getting a sense of resignation to the fact I will just have to accept what did, or did not, or might have happened. I guess I will see over time if that is OK with me or not.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, September 12th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

having lots of triggers these days, i am fighting through them, they do seem to be one after another though, can't get through one and another is upon me...BUT I AM GETTING THROUGH THEM....

i must be pms'ing or something, the tears seem to flow so easy these days...making the getting through them a bit tougher, but not impossible...i am learning to look forward to things...trying really hard to live in the present and leaving the past in the past..the triggers make it a bit more challenging though...

i went walking in the mall again today, only got to seem some of my peeps there, i was late...and it was so so nice to hear the "hey, where have you been"'s...it really is awesome to be missed, even by these people who are virtual strangers...


and to add to the current conversation about giving all the freedom...pfm had all the freedom he could ever want, i too never wanted him to resent me from keeping him from doing what he wanted...the irony in that one...

but honestly i don't think freedom has anything to do with it, ow #1, the one who was in his life forever was on a tight leash with her own bh...so it really means nothing...where there is a will there will always be a way....kind of why i trust nothing at all anymore...when he says where he is, means nothing...who's to say he is alone, or that he doesn't then leave and then come back....phone records mean nothing, we are in the age where there are throw away phones, we live in a time where infidelity is easy...and in my case the infidelity started before all the ease of technology and still it was pulled off in epic proportions....

freedom has nothing to do with it....the sense of entitlement that comes with a lta...well i think that is it in a nutshell....

and mostly because they can....


honest: before you do anything, line up your ducks and make sure you are covered for several months to a year...i believe he will screw you over, and use money to try and control you, so make sure you have some thing to fall back on...so don't do anything til you do....and remember, you can "get sick" to get out of anything...


(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, September 12th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats: thanks for the book recommendation. Also - let me know about what you think of the other 2 when you finish them. That's great that your wife grabbed the books 1st!

Miracle: sorry you are down. Is this something PFM is doing or just something else that came up? You are just in such a terrible sitch - I'm glad you got to meet up with people this weekend at least. (And if you are ready for that walk in the park - next Mon is good for me.)

As for me: I'm getting happier with my life - tho those loving feelings are still evading me. We did a lot with the kids - all of us together - I think this is really the only way I am going to be able to let my H back in my heart - by showing me how loving he is with the kids & how we can be just 1 big, happy family. I have to admit, it was exhausting tho. And, I hope he can remember to continue to do thiw kind of stuff - show me he is family first, without me making an issue of it.

Talk to y'all tomorrow.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:08 PM, September 12th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats..
thanks for the book recommendation.

All goods...glad to hear that you had some nice family time together...that always helps me also..when we spend time together with our children..it reminds me of what we are.. a family...so eventhough my kids are grown and on their own it does help me also...

miracle..so sorry that you were struggling this weekend...
sending you hugs from NJ!
do you walk for exercise in the mall? I do that also.. when the weather is bad and I can't walk outdoors...and yes, there are some regulars...

honest...
hope you are OK.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 6:31 PM, September 12th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thanks njgal and allgood...

no pfm is not up to anything...just lots of triggers, everyday stuff that if things were normal would be nothing because they are supposed to be nothing...they aren't nothing anymore is all...from the cellphone ringing (which is nonstop), all cellphone activity, to going to pick up something at a store....normal crap that isn't normal anymore...intellectually i know that these are normal activities...but then again there is no normal anymore is there...

emotions...can't control them sometimes, wish i could...


njgal: yes when the weather sucks i walk at the mall, daily....there are regulars in both places i walk...and its nice to see them...there is something comforting about being part of a group....kind of like this group....even though they serve quite different purposes....yet the same ...both groups give me a sense of belonging, and not being alone in whatever it is i am doing....walking or posting..


allgood you have apm


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
What?  Posted: 8:25 PM, September 12th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FWW said she saw herself in many of the bpd traits in Walking on Eggshells. She admits I was in a no-win situation, and she is being NICE tonight!

iwam, I am so sorry that you are having a rough day. ((iwam))

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 8:53 PM, September 12th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{{{{Miracle}}}}

I understand those triggers. Almost all the time, everywhere you go. It pervades one's life.

Keep posting Miracle, let us help you. You have helped all of us so very much.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 11:25 PM, September 12th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good weekend here. WH came home yesterday and we talked about the questions I had sent to him via e-mail. I was able to be calm and it seems like WH is starting to get it. He actually told me that he was grateful that I was giving him a 2nd chance. I was pretty stunned. He said several times that I was not to blame for any of this. I know this is a baby step but at least it was a step and I have felt so much better today...strong and hopeful.

Miracle - I know what you mean about the tears. Some days I'm good and others it's water-works all day. The sadness can be overwhelming at times. Hang in there!


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:41 PM, September 12th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

good for you strongish!


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 12:40 AM, September 13th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's good news strongish, especially when WH said it wasn't your fault.

A step in the right direction.


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