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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 20
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My cousin sent this to me today and I thought I'd pass it along.

A real man is a woman's best friend. He will
never stand her up and never let her down.
He will reassure her when she feels insecure
and comfort her after a bad day.
He will inspire her to do things she never
thought she could do; to live without fear
and forget regret. He will enable her to
express her deepest emotions and give in to
her most intimate desires. He will make sure
she always feels as though she's the most
beautiful woman in the room and will enable
her to be confident, sexy,
seductive and invincible.

No! Wait... sorry...
I'm thinking of wine.
Itís wine that does all that.
Never mind.

Just thought this might bring a smile to everyone today.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

alway hope - I don't have much to offer at this point in my R as I am having a bad week. But two of the most difficult things for me to deal with is the anger and the sex.


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

double post - sorry

[This message edited by nofun at 12:25 PM, September 20th (Monday)]


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I didn't finish posting and it disappeared....poof!!!

I have been feeling very obsessive lately. I have been obsessing over OW, angry at H and the mind movies are killing me. I can't talk to H about it, because what do I say? Things between us haven't been that bad. I feel like it's me. Hopefully it's that roller coaster ride and it will be over and I'll get back on track until the next rocky ride.


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((NoFun))) - It's not you and yes, it is the roller coaster ride. Sometimes there is an absolute trigger and sometimes there doesn't seem to be any particular reason at all for the emotional downslide (other than their LTA of course ). Hang in there and hopefully you will be feeling better soon.
(((NoFun)))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

do not have long but need to touch upon a few items:

strong:

I am compromising my self-respect.

i am sorry that you feel this way, i disagree with your take on yourself though, i actually think what you are doing is respecting your needs right now to reconcile your marriage, and you are not doing anything disrespectful to yourself to do so...


i am glad he told you about the email...he seems to be doing his part and that is great...so many do not....


always: i read your profie, you have been through some ringer....


How do I contain the anger?

there are moments that this is the most impossible task...and for me as long as you are not physically harming yourself or him, as long as your children are not in earshot or within sight....go for what you need to do get that anger out...it does have to get out though, finding healthy outlets is not always easy when you are blowing at an inopportune time....


am normally a fairly intelligent person but I have been obsessed, confused & much more lately.

this is normal....very normal


o.k. i gotta go do school rounds now, bbl to finish up and to ramble some more...


fun and honest thank you for checking in, us mother hens do worry you know....right fnf


and fun: this is the worst rollercoaster ride in the world, the lowest lows and the highest highs....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been obsessing over OW, angry at H and the mind movies are killing me. I can't talk to H about it, because what do I say?

You say that you are having a bad day (week, month) because you are obsessing over the OM, angry at H, and having mind movies. This way you get to express your feelings, and do not have to build resentment. Your FWS gets an honest discussion of why you have seemed different. While he may be upset to have A-Stuff brought up again, he may be relived that it is not some other issue.

It is you, and you will get back on track, but what a perfect opportunity to practice discussing a difficult issue. (Yes, I know, easier said than done). ((nofun))

honesttoafault, I just feel for you. Why would you go on a vacation with your WH, when he does not feel the need to pick one woman to be married to? Are there any consequences for him? The next time he asks how you are doing tell him. Tell him you feel like crap because your H abandoned you for another woman. That a man you thought you loved and loved you is a narcissist bully.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

always-hope,

How do I contain the anger?

You don't, you express it. You can try to work on being respectful when you express it, you can work on making it you feelings, not accusations, but you express your feelings. Do not make your H guess at what is going on with you.

How do you get over (accept?) the sex part?

That one has taken time, and is still a bit of a struggle. For me, and I know this is not true for others, the more FWW has shared with me about the sex, the more facts I have had, the better I have done. In my mind, it is all a grand and erotic fantasy. When FWW provides details, there is good sex and not so good sex with OM, but it is more balanced. The more I know, the less I am bothered by mind movies.

-Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lurker here. But have to give major props to forgivenotforget. Because I just spit coffee onto my keyboard!


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

strongish,

I am compromising my self-respect.

This one took me a while to figure out. For me the answer is no, for a few reasons.

1. I have always loved my FWW. I still do, despite some unlovable things she did. It does not injure my self-respect to get what I want.

2. FWW's As were not about me, at all. Sure, she had some rationalizations and justifications that involved me, but that is all they were. Her A were about her grossly inappropriate attempt to meet her need for affirmation and attention. She is now (finally) remorseful for what she did. I choose to forgive her and so long as she is taking the steps to prevent future problems (IC, talking, reading, MC, boundaries, etc) I am comfortable. I do not need to cut off my nose to spite my face, throw the baby out with the bath water, burn the house to get rid of the mouse, or whatever other metaphor one wishes to use.

3. All of the great philosophies and religions place a high value of forgiveness. If you can forgive, you can be a wonderful example to all who are aware of the situation, and even those who do not know the details, but knew something was wrong. I can empathize with FWW and understand how she arrived at the decisions she did. I am able to forgive her. I do not condone what she did, but she is certainly not unique within the human condition to have looked outside her M for affirmation and love.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There seems to be a lot of talk lately about how our S's LTA's affect our self-respect, especially since we have decided to give them an opportunity to R with us.
For me, I never felt I compromised my self respect by trying to work on my M. I agree with ATS in his post to strongish - he has made excellent points and one thing I would add is that it is not just about what we want when we have children to consider. We really have to consider their welfare as well when we make our decision to attempt R.
Another important point is that we do not ever allow our S's to continue their abuse in any way, shape or form. This will definitely affect our self-respect and given their past behavior, make us vulnerable to either another A or a continuation of the LTA we are trying to recover from.
Having said this, my own experience has been trying to regain some level of respect for my H since all respect for him was lost on d-day. I still struggle with this and I'm almost 5 years out. Now for those whose S's do the hard work of self-discovery through intense IC'ing, who make tremendous changes in their behavior and treatment of the BS (as well as the children), then respect for them can be regained. For those whose S's do little to understand the "why" for their LTA, who continue to minimize its impact and effects, and who think all should be forgotten and put in the past, then respect for them IMHO may never be regained. My own H falls somewhere between these two categories and therefore I have never completely regained respect for him which is very sad.
Maybe when you find yourself questioning your self-respect, stop and ask yourself instead, is there something in my S's current behavior that I am tolerating that is intolerable and what am I willing to do to change this or could it be a kind of reversal of projection where it is really your S that you cannot respect but find it less painful to turn it on yourself. Does this make sense?
One final thought, sometimes we have very pragmatic reasons for staying in a situation that otherwise would be intolerable. It could be financial, or because our children are at vulnerable ages or religious reasons. Whatever it may be you need to be easy on yourself and acknowledge those reasons as completely justifiable for the present time. As long as you don't stay in an abusive relationship longer than is absolutely necessary. That's MHO for what it's worth.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 2:54 PM, September 20th (Monday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Miracle and ATS for giving me your perspective. I was always one to say I would never put up with my H having an affair. Now I have to eat those words. Uncomfortable, but not undoable. I absolutely do not want to throw the baby out just to hang on to some holier-than-thou attitude, but....

IC session this morning and we talked about how the A really had very little to do about me (I know, I know...where have I heard this all before?). It mostly has to do with my WH's inability to really feel an emotional bond to me. And this is what my IC is trying to get me to see....except for times when it is convenient for him, WH has never been able to put ME first. He is focused on himself 70% of the time and I'm focused on him 70% of the time. He expects/wants me to focus on him when he's home and on one hand you can say well if he's only home one day/week then that should be easy. But he gets his feelings hurt if I do something enjoyable while he's gone...go out with some friends kayaking, happy hours with the other soccer moms, hardly anything spectacular. He doesn't mind if I see a movie as long as it's not one he wants to see, then he gets "hurt."

Bottom line is can he ever be what I need for him to be. In the last few years (we've been M for 27 years) I've been stretching my wings a little bit. Nothing too radical...I started running, have spent more time with my women (all married) friends and moms of my DS's friends, have been happier working at home on my schedule as opposed to the rat race at a downtown office. Granted, the sex life has not been great but my MD tells me that that's because I don't feel an emotional connection to WH. But when I look back at what changed in our M at the time my WH started the A, that's the only thing I can see..that I was actually doing more of what I want to do as opposed to what I should do.

As for the sex thing....I'm going to jump back into that pool this week. I've bought a few sexier pieces of clothing and have a few things in mind that I'm letting myself imagine I might enjoy. My #1 concern is that WH will see the re-activation of our sex life as the signal that everything is better now. My IC is happy for me to do this as she thinks it will help both WH and I see that the sex life issue is merely a symptom of the real problem which is that he and I are not emotionally connecting.

Jump in tribe...give me your thoughts.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now for those whose S's do the hard work of self-discovery through intense IC'ing, who make tremendous changes in their behavior and treatment of the BS (as well as the children), then respect for them can be regained. For those whose S's do little to understand the "why" for their LTA, who continue to minimize its impact and effects, and who think all should be forgotten and put in the past, then respect for them IMHO may never be regained.

Forgive - You hit the nail on the head. This is a big concern of mine. Will WH continue to see the MC/IC once life is more "normal?" He already talks alot about how I'm dealing with this but has not said a word about what he's working on to change the things about him that led to his having an A. I guess only time will tell. I'm frankly terrified to take the next step of renewing our sex life. I very much afraid it will be the beginning of the end of his work on himself. It seems to be the only thing that makes an impression on him about how deeply this has affected me.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
always-hope
♀ Member
Member # 27814
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

iwam
as long as you are not physically harming yourself or him, as long as your children are not in earshot or within sight

nothing physical either way, in fact H has been much better at holding his temper when I blow than me, and that is saying something. He has not lost it (minor sarcasm but no name calling, hardly any swearing) since he moved home.

He has been soooo much better with the kids (teens) also. And I do not blow in front of the kids. I have cried in front of them and the older two know the truth.

ats

Do not make your H guess at what is going on with you.

Emotions run my life, I have never been good at hiding them or anything. (no RA for me, couldn't do it for a lot of reasons) I have told him, made lists, emailed, texted, and talked more in this 9 months than in the last 9 yrs. (communication problem?--working on that)

The more I know, the less I am bothered by mind movies.

I have gotten him to talk about details, graphic details, because I need to know EVERYTHING. (really want that timeline, I'm a reader)

Here's the rub. How do I believe it was like he told me? Empty & unfufilling, not passionate. (his words) Yet she made the moves (not sure I believe that either) four times that weekend and he said yes every time. If it was SO bad why do it a second, third & fourth time?

I wish I could give helpful, wise advice, you'd think after reading some two dozen+ books I would be able to but my head is diagonal & sideways mostly these days.

fnf

I'm thinking of wine.
Itís wine that does all that.

That settles it I am switching from gin to wine. Anyone know any good dark, sweet wine, not too pricey? I saw mudlides mentioned I like those wonder if they work too?

Thanks for your replies. I am gonna stay on this board for a while if y'all don't mind, something about the feel of it makes me feel better. AH


BW me- 51
WH 50
3 DS
M 27 yrs
STD/PA? in 91 Many EA's, LT(10 yr)EA/PA
DDays: many -started 2005
TT never stopped, don't think I will ever have the full truth
SOW- WH's former HS 'friend/whore'
Limbo

Posts: 307 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: The Heartland
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((AH)))

I don't always take the time to offer advice, I'm usually too busy feeling crappy myself, but I will tell you that this board has been a lifeline for me. Some of the other boards have some very angry people but this one has support, support and even more support. They listen and take their time to answer thoughtfully. Welcome.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just zipping in and sending big hugs to you all.

I'll catch up when I have a chance, things are a bit hectic right now. Thanks for the top post FNF, made me laugh! Another glass of wine barman!

I'm keeping you all close in my heart. (((((Tribe)))))


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

always-hope,

Here's the rub. How do I believe it was like he told me? Empty & unfufilling, not passionate. (his words) Yet she made the moves (not sure I believe that either) four times that weekend and he said yes every time. If it was SO bad why do it a second, third & fourth time?

I cannot tell you about your WS and A, only what my experience was. You will have to discern the reality of your situation.

For the first 7 months after dday FWW talked only of occasional unfulfilling, obligatory sex. It was not until she provided additional details at almost 8 months out that I heard about the sense of power, screaming O's from oral, Oís from penetration only, the excitement of anticipation. This is when I learned they were together 1 or twice a month (I suspect it was actually more often) not just once every few months. So for FWW, of course she enjoyed it, at least some of it. The sex is also a part of the broader relationship, and I know she enjoyed that. She loved it. The attention, the secret, the affirmation, the excitement, the upgrades on travel, being wined and dined, she like it. She said with both OM she tried to end things, but could not. If not enjoyment, the A was meeting some need of hers, and I know her well enough to know she was enjoying herself and guilty/frightened/ashamed at times too.

FWW talks about continuing her A with OM#3 in hopes it would get better (if she loved him then it would all be ok ) Looking back she is ashamed and does not want to see any positives. She was scared to death when she admitted to enjoyment that I would never love her again.

I will guess that maybe your WS and his AP did have not great sex, and kept hoping it would get better. That it was not as bad as he indicates, but not as romantic and erotic as you (and I) imagine.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

Just checking in quickly. H off work for 2 days and hard to post. I have though been able to read most.

Two main topics seem to be sex and respect.

The sex part is good here. Have been able to get H to tell me a little about sex with OWs. Seems like it was good at times not so good at others. He still insists has always been best with me. I like to believe this - makes me feel good- so I will for now anyway.

As for respect and total honesty. I don't believe I will ever get total honesty. It's just not him. He's still trying to protect himself, the M and me. There has been a little more TT which I don't think bothers me as much as I thought it would.

I suppose I've drawn my line re my self respect by saying repeatedly NEVER EVER AGAIN. I've told him absolutely NC except as necessary at work or WE ARE DONE. He knows I mean this and when I say it doesn't seem worried so maybe that means he has good intentions. I understand that they are just that- intentions- at present. So still a little afraid. He's weak and fell to temptation before but knows concsequences this time so hopefully that's enough.

Thanks for the good wishes re our holiday. Will let you know how it goes. Just have to work on my response to triggers before we go so I don't let them spoil our time away.

fnf

Thanks for the poem. I love my Merlot

sometimes we have very pragmatic reasons for staying in a situation that otherwise would be intolerable. It could be financial, or because our children are at vulnerable ages or religious reasons. Whatever it may be you need to be easy on yourself and acknowledge those reasons as completely justifiable for the present time.

Yes!! I think we should also try really hard to be kind to ourselves. Be positive and give ourselves pats on the back for all the good qualities we see in ourselves. We are good people. We have good reasons to stay - whatever they are - we have good intentions.

strong

great about the email. Good sign

As for the sex thing....I'm going to jump back into that pool this week. I've bought a few sexier pieces of clothing and have a few things in mind that I'm letting myself imagine I might enjoy.

Go for it!!!

always - hope

Try Merlot

Sorry have to finish - gotta go to work

HUGS to all

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 5:08 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I thought I should check in and say hello. I do not want the mother hens to worry about me.

Great posts by everybody. Keep up the good work!

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats - thanks for the advice. I know I have to communicate. I have a really hard time deciding how to bring it up, when, and best time. I actually get anxiety knowing I have to bring it up in order to get it out. It is so disappointing when I try to talk to my FWH. He doesn't respond.

I used to be a really good communicator when I first got married. But after many years of getting no responce from my H, I shut down. I need to learn how to express myself all over again. It's like learning to talk or walk. It's difficult. But I fear things will not get any better if I don't say what I am feeling.


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
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