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User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 20
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 6:12 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need to learn how to express myself all over again.

I hear you nofun. After 20 years of warped communication with FWW, I have to "get back to normal". I still respond to situations based on the warped relationship we had and not the healthy one we are trying to build. It is hard after so many years of conditioning. So I blunder forward doing the best I can based on what the books and IC/MC tell me, what the hell, she wouldn't know the difference.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 6:13 PM, September 20th (Monday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 6:26 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

imnellnow: welcome lurker..glad you dropped by..


strong: fnf and ats covered the rest of the self respect stuff, very well actually

Bottom line is can he ever be what I need for him to be

only if he does the work...he must be given some time and the tools to do this....

each new tool he learns takes time..

how much time: that is up to you, how much time are you willing to allow....

to me: if he is doing the work, not just talking the talk, you give him as much time as needed as long as you see continued progress...less then that will leave you wondering and end up leaving you with regrets...if he comes to standstill, then it would be time for you to reevaluate...and part of the reevaluation would also need to include why the standstill...but you have a ways for that

the part of this equation is your immediate needs or requirements: these needs/requirements should get a short short time span depending on the need...such as nc...that is immediate...no time

your dealbreakers should also be in place, one of which should be nc....another ic

for me a timeline was also a need, i gave my ws 6 months for my immediate needs...he failed to meet them...so therefore i am done...

biggest warning: do not give an ulitmatum unless you are willing to carry through, do not give time limits if you are not willing to carry through....it will totally destroy any credibility on your part if he feels that you are just talk, and then he has no incentive nor does he have any consequence....

i rambled way enough on this one...


and good for you for getting yourself a life that is yours...keep it and add to it, enrich it...


Will WH continue to see the MC/IC once life is more "normal?"

tell him that this is not choice but a requirement of reconcilliation...it stops so does reconcilliation...

I'm frankly terrified to take the next step of renewing our sex life. I very much afraid it will be the beginning of the end of his work on himself. It seems to be the only thing that makes an impression on him about how deeply this has affected me


(((strong)))

do not hesitate to change your mind if it doesn't feel right at the time....give yourself the safety of an out should you change your mind...and let him know it, so that if you do have to invoke this change he has been prepared for it as well...

hope:

He has not lost it (minor sarcasm but no name calling, hardly any swearing) since he moved home.

he has no business being sarcastic or losing it at all, there is no excuse for that, and that would not demonstrate true remorse, i would hope that when he falters on this (he is human) is realized the error and apologizes to you...it reminds me of my son manchild...he does wrong and then would have the nerve to catch an attitude with me because i call him on it..

How do I believe it was like he told me?

i dont know about this one....the only thing you could do here is piece together his story with what you know about people and what you know about him and women....it may not be what he told you...then again he may...this is one of those things that just is or isn't....and time will hopefully give you the answer that you could accept, or choose to accept it as non-believable and deal with it now and then move on from it....(i know, i know so much easier said then done)


and no worries about giving advice....right now you just take it in...when you are ready, down the road a piece, when you arent a newbie, then you give what you have if you do...and if you don't thats ok too...we are an easy bunch....


mudslides are awesome...just sayin

ukgirl: good to see you zipped on in..


laura: enjoy your 2 days with him.


dip: yes us mother hens do worry about you and those alligators you know...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 6:30 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fun:


But I fear things will not get any better if I don't say what I am feeling.

this is true for all....


no one reads minds, no one knows what you want...unless you tell them

this goes for needs, desires, hopes and dreams....if you do not tell, they cannot come to fruition.....

and on the flip side, if you do not share your fears, your nightmares, these cannot be allayed as easily as they might...

of course the person you choose to share these the most intimate details of your heart desires and fears need to be open to recieving and needs to be open to fulfilling..


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are so wise miracle....and have helped so many here including me.

Not only wise, but intelligent, caring, a loving mom, and a gorgeous beautiful woman inside and out.


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:31 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nofun, I agree completely with you about Miracle!!!

Ats, fnf, Ukgirl, everyone, thank you so much for your support and your wonderful wise words that really help everyone. Even if you are writing in response to someone's post, your wisdom really helps everyone.

I am really trying to detach emotionally from WH. I didn't realize WH detached from me so long ago. I am the one who has to let go. I think I was hanging on for dear life. I really thought I loved WH for the good and bad, I thought I really knew him, but now I'm not sure if who I loved really existed. The facade was strong. He kept it up with me for a very very long time, and I believed it because I so desperately wanted to believe it.

WH, DS15, and I went out for dinner tonight and it was very pleasant. We talked and laughed. WH does superficial very well.

WH wanted to go shopping and DS 15 didn't want to go because he says we just go shopping for WH (which is true). I said to DS that I get so tense because WH might go and try to buy something for the OC's while I was there. I said I found it hurtful and a lack of respect. DS says, "Dad doesn't think" I said, that's the problem and DS says, "No, Dad doesn't think of other people's feelings, he's oblivious, he's not aware..."

Such wisdom from a 15 year old. DS is right. WH is not purposely doing these things to hurt me intentionally, but he doesn't think at all, he can't see beyond his own wants and needs. It's almost like he needs to be told that something will hurt someone's feelings and really explain it to him, and MAYBE he might understand, but usually doesn't. I think he just understands the consequences of some of his thoughtlessness, or that there are other people who may get hurt from some of his actions, so he knows not to do them from experience. But, DS is right, I don't think WH really can empathize....true sign of a narcissist.

For me, understanding a little helps the hurt a bit and to really feel that it's not my fault....WH has a problem.

Intellectually, I feel, we all KNOW it's not our fault, but our self esteem and self respect get so smashed, that we may still somehow FEEL that we are inadequate. I still FEEL I was not enough. I did everything, gave it my all for years, and it wasn't enough.

Sorry for the ramble...just thinking aloud.


Love to everyone

{{{{tribe}}}} and a special hug to the {{{{{newbies}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:06 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest:

I didn't realize WH detached from me so long ago.

the sad truth here for you as well as myself...our ws's never really attached themselves to begin with..

our ws's are a different entity on some levels, wheras they didn't just go astray, didn't really truly love us for who we were, you know the love i am referring to the "true" love ....neither of our ws's were ever capable of that...and i think for us it makes it even more surreal, because for the most part we loved a fantasy of a person, we loved the facade that they showed us....its like when someone dies, and we see video of them...it makes it so difficult to accept because they are right there in the video, how could someone appear so "alive"= "loving"...and not BE!!!!

it makes our new realities that much more difficult to accept, but if we do not accept we stay stuck and we don't move forward and on to happiness....we will find happiness honest, eventually we will find it, but only if we seek it out....

"No, Dad doesn't think of other people's feelings, he's oblivious, he's not aware..."

and i dont think this man will ever "see" what he's done, or who he is....and if he does it won't be for a very very long time.....and i am thinkin it will be when he is left alone, if that ever comes to be..people like him always seem to find someone...


I still FEEL I was not enough. I did everything, gave it my all for years, and it wasn't enough.

ah, i have wrestled with this one myself, why wasn't i enough, why didn't he love me enough....

the truth is simple: because you cannot give what you do not have...

the acceptance, now that is where the difficulty lies...

honest you were enough as was i, it was them who weren't...it was them who are dificient....it was them who was broken and our only contribution...we chose them, we picked them, we chose to love them, we didn't see was really there!!! so we failed to see who they were, they painted this picture of who they were and we believed...

we are good people who wanted to believe that we wouldn't choose someone who wasn't...but we did...they were very good at pretending to be people they were not...very good indeed...they could both win an academy award for their acting skills....and the lies...wow, the lies....

keep repeating "i am worthy of so much more then this", "i will not only survive this shit, i will thrive"...


(((honest)))

and thank you fun and honest for the huge compliments, but wise...no...common sense is all...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:00 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle: DS 34 said the same thing to me when I complained WHY did both of my H's cheated....What was wrong with me??

DS 34 said, there was nothing wrong with me, I just made bad choices when I got married.

That's what I need to go to IC to figure out WHY I make these poor choices. Choices that have affected my life so profoundly and deeply.

DS 34 kept telling me not to wish I didn't marry WH because I got DS 15 and 12, and there I am blessed. DS 34 and 30 absolutely adore and love DS 12 and 15 and vice versa. The little guys love their older brothers. (even though they are half brothers, they NEVER feel like that)

I have to focus on that. I have made a lot of mistakes in parenting, I am human, but I guess I must have done something right with the DS's.

Now I have to do more right for them and not just talk about getting my ducks in a row, but actually do it.

Thank you Miracle, although I am trying my best, it is still hard to get my head and heart around that WH never really attached to me or loved me like I did him. I think he may have to his full capability at one time, but that wasn't enough for anyone.

{{{{tribe}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 11:11 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest: i can relate, sadly i can relate....remember that you are not alone here....i too need to accept the unacceptable....

the truth though is they are broken men and always were, we saw the possiblities and thought i think that they were realities....because i too struggle on how did i get myself into this mess...everyday i struggle with this...and everyday i make a choice to get past it...

sometimes though it doesn't work and i have a meltdown....but i get over it, and i will get over this...this is one of my mantra's, i will , i will, i will.....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
alexa071
♂ Member
Member # 28881
Default  Posted: 1:57 AM, September 21st (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all... checking in after a few days.

IWAM,

sometimes though it doesn't work and i have a meltdown....

This was my past few days. I thought I was past those D-day feelings of complete hoplessness. It came back to bite me in the ass. I really have no idea where it came from... well that's not entirely true.

I read a letter that FALLEN posted on a wayward post that kind of sent me into a tailspin and it was all downhill from there. On top of that Wed. is 1 year from the last time WW had sex with OM (if you buy her story). Also, tomorrow AM I have my meeting with the attorney to move on my paternity issues. My head and heart are really playing a hard-fought game of tug-of-war on that one. I know its something I HAVE to do and I think I'll feel better when it is done and out of my hands.

Concerning IC and "doing the work" to find out a why for the A. I know this has to vary greatly but how long does it take? Is WW's IC goig to drag on for the next decade before I get some solid answers? 5 years? 1 year? There has to be an average... eventually I would think an IC would say there is nothing more to talk about... you just refuse to tell your BH why you did this.


Me: BH (32)
Her: XWW/SA/Borderline PD (Betrayer47) (32)
OC: (4)

Posts: 1042 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: MN
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:42 AM, September 21st (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know this has to vary greatly but how long does it take? Is WW's IC goig to drag on for the next decade before I get some solid answers? 5 years? 1 year? There has to be an average...

In our experience...

FWW has already had much therapy for FOO and anxiety issues prior to our M. Recently, combinations of IC and MC every week MOL since dday. At about 4 months out ACOA issues were identified. At about 11 months out personality/behavioral traits. This is just "discovering" them, not resolving them, although awareness is a big part of addressing the issues. Are we done peeling the onion?

ETA...

...tell your BH why you did this.

It comes down to because they felt entitled and wanted to. Lots of environmental or other issues that may pre-dipose them to bad choices in this area, but in the end they put their own needs ahead of others'.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 7:45 AM, September 21st (Tuesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:53 AM, September 21st (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

so we have been having sex about once every couple of weeks. I mean sex as in both pleasing and being plaeased by each other. She "takes care of me" more frequently, but not much of a bonding experience.

So last night I broached the topic after the night before she had been too tired. I expected defensive, and that is what I got. She pointed out we had sex last week (Wednesday). I agreed, and pointed out we also had it 2 weeks before that.

She responded out that she does not have much sex drive, and only wants sex every 6 months or so... I questioned that, and she revised her answer, but still infrequent. She said she just does not feel like sex that often.

So I bit my tongue. I did not ask about her arranging and setting aside 1 - 3 hours once or twice a month (that I know of) to have sex with OM. That during that sex she had orgasms, they did things to her, she did things to them. That she indicated recently that OM was not available as often as she was to get together for sex.

I burned it off riding in to BTO this morning. I wonder what it is like to be married to a spouse who loves and is attracted to you? According to the Kinsey Institute, 86% of married couples report sex once a week or more. 41% twice a week or more. It does not seem like my desire is that outrageous.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 8:36 AM, September 21st (Tuesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, September 21st (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

alex:
the cold hard truth is no one can give you an estimate on how long there are so so many factors to consider:

how many apply:

past foo issues
childhood sexual abuse
how long as the behavior been going on
sa
alcholism
mental disorders including depression
age
menopause, pregnancy
the ic (is he good)
how often are sessions
does the ws do the work
job stress
finances...

etc. etc. etc...

the list is endless....for me i would think as long as you are seeing continued progress mixed with effort you stick it out if you can....with exception to your immediate needs that must be met, all the other can come, but not with hard work on both sides...

and yes that part sucks that we the bs have to work for it, but that is the sad truth of it...all relationships require that both parties work at it to be successful, otherwise it is not only not successful but i can probably guarantee that someone is not having their needs met relationship wise by the other...

in your case alex you have so many obstacles to overcome...is this possible...yes, but only if she does the work, and she has alot of work to do...she needs a really good ic as well, someone who is not going to buy into her shit, someone who will be a soft place for her to fall so that she feels safe to tell him/her everything there is....

that is also part of why tt exists, the ws does not feel safe to tell it all, so fear takes over and walla tt....the deadliest obstacle imo....aside of course from abuse....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, September 21st (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((ats))))

your wife is sometimes an ass ats....she says things from this part of her body and recants them later....

i hope she recants this one too!!!


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, September 21st (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood
fnf
fun
honest
m3
njgal

you all have pm's....

and i want one back from each of you.. ...
pretty please
with sugar on top
and a cherry too if your into it..

[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 10:04 AM, September 21st (Tuesday)]


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, September 21st (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Slapping my "HELLO! My name is... NELL" tag on and jumping in here.

@nofun

I actually get anxiety knowing I have to bring it up in order to get it out. It is so disappointing when I try to talk to my FWH. He doesn't respond.

That speaks directly to my heart. My WH, in the early years of our M, told me that he "just can't listen to me anymore" when I was in a really crappy (first) job, blahblahblah. I vented at WH a lot. Like every day. And after many months, he said, "I cannot listen to you anymore." So I stopped and I found friends who would support me emotionally in that way. You know, it's okay because you can't be everything to everyone... Then other things happened. People in my life died and WH didn't support me. People in my life got seriously ill and WH didn't support me. But whenever WH stubbed his toe, there I was with band-aids and lollipops. And I talked to my friends and family and got support from them. I was always getting support when I needed it; just never by my H.

So now I have feelings and thoughts and all of a sudden WH says he wants to hear them. (Mostly, I think, because they deal directly with him and he wants to know if I'm in or out on any given day.) I make myself talk to him, but am physically ill... I can feel the stress in my chest as I'm thinking about opening up because I'm so afraid. And I never end up feeling better. I have to tell him this stuff, but I really really really don't want to. He gets defensive and doesn't seem to hear the ME in what I'm saying. I retreat back into myself (thinking that I'm not going to talk about myself to a person who is so clearly uninterested in hearing about me). The conversation turns quickly to WH and I let it because it's safer that way.

It's better in MC because he (MC) forces WH to hear me. Gives him a five-minute talk about listening to me before I answer questions. (Seriously. Which puts a lot of pressure on me.) And then guides WH through the listening process. It's so... ugh.

Unless of course I throw a big hissy and act like a big asshole. In which case it seems to break through WH's defenses and he is able to show sympathy. I hate that. I hate myself when I do that. It is so beneath me. But it works so...

Just ugh.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, September 21st (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Hello to the newbies and to those dipping in here from other forums. This is a gentle and understanding thread and I hope you can gain some helpful advice as well as solace knowing you are not alone and you are not crazy.

All of the great philosophies and religions place a high value of forgiveness.
Ah, but forgiveness has to start with forgiving yourself. There are those who can do it in an instant, knowing they were not at fault and the [whatever] was nothing personal and they move on to forgiving the perpetrator. I can’t forgive myself for my apparent stupidity, so I cannot forgive FWH for his behaviour. If I could make that first move…………. >>>sigh<<<

FNF

Now for those whose S's do the hard work of self-discovery through intense IC'ing, who make tremendous changes in their behavior and treatment of the BS (as well as the children), then respect for them can be regained. For those whose S's do little to understand the "why" for their LTA, who continue to minimize its impact and effects, and who think all should be forgotten and put in the past, then respect for them IMHO may never be regained. My own H falls somewhere between these two categories and therefore I have never completely regained respect for him which is very sad.
Same here, FNF. FWH did very little in the self analysis or examination. Frankly, he didn’t want to look too hard at himself. And he does lean towards the camp of “move on, that was then, this is now”. He appreciates there has been damage, but he seems to think the cracks should have been plastered over and painted by now. The trouble is, you can’t plaster over a chasm! His reason for “why” is that it was “unfinished dialogue” with MOW being his ex-fiancee.

It could be financial, or because our children are at vulnerable ages or religious reasons. Whatever it may be you need to be easy on yourself and acknowledge those reasons as completely justifiable for the present time.
D-day and the immediate period afterwards was mind numbing shock, trauma, disbelief, fear, sickness and wondering wtf I was going to tell the boys. My biggest concern was DS4 who was changing from primary to secondary school. How was he going to cope if his parents separated too? He idolised DS2 (still does) but he would go back to uni. Or would he? Would they all feel they had to stay around and act as my shield and protectors? I did not want to influence their futures. I did not want them involved. So I let H stay. And he pretty much dictated how things would be done. Mistake. Wish I had known about SI back in those early days –I would have done things differently.

Dip

I thought I should check in and say hello.
Hi Dip.


Honest

Intellectually, I feel, we all KNOW it's not our fault, but our self esteem and self respect get so smashed, that we may still somehow FEEL that we are inadequate. I still FEEL I was not enough. I did everything, gave it my all for years, and it wasn't enough.
Listen to wise woman miracle. And repeat after me: I was enough, I am enough, I will always be enough. And when that sinks in, add WH was, is and will always be fuckwit. Ok. Better now? (((((honest)))))

Alex

Concerning IC and "doing the work" to find out a why for the A. I know this has to vary greatly but how long does it take?

As long as it takes. That’s it, really. One day at a time. For as many days as it needs. And that’s how you should see it – one day at a time. And, of course, it depends on the personality mix of the counselling sessions, what suits one person does not do for another.

Okay. So yesterday was our 30th anni. Which I pointedly ignored and FWH pointedly mentioned. He wanted to go out for dinner, I didn't. So we stayed in. My mum sent some flowers, which were lovely, even after I had snipped off all the rose heads. (ref to her name…… won’t have them in the house, nor any rosemary either). A couple of cards arrived and I left them unopened. I changed the subject every time. And so I conclude he still doesn’t get it. We don’t wear rings and there is nothing to celebrate about a lie.

I wont be around that much, DS3 is coming home ( ) from NZ tomorrow or the day after. Downside is DS1&2 have their visas to stay in NZ for another year. Not sure how I feel about that. Pleased for them, but sad for me. It’s such a long way.
I also have DS4’s 16th b’day and the IL’s coming up. That will be trying. FWH’s SIL has been diagnosed with advanced cancer and his brother is falling apart. We fell out with them years ago and while I feel some sympathy, I do not propose to go on any guilt trip about her illness. However, I will have M&FIL’s emotional stuff to deal with. They are not strong people in that respect.

That about wraps it up for now. I still have DS3’s room to do (flat pack furniture ) and the clearing up now the decorator has finished.

Big hugs to this wonderful Tribe.

eta - correcting for the fifth time........

[This message edited by UKgirl at 1:18 PM, September 21st (Tuesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, September 21st (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And when that sinks in, add WH was, is and will always be fuckwit. Ok. Better now?

oh my gosh, its a good thing i wasn't drinking anything, for sure i would have done a spit for that one... ...and i can relate once again...although my fuckwit is not as bad as honest' fuckwit.....but a fuckwit just the same...damn saying this out loud whle i am typing is certainly giving me some tied tongue..


hello nell....

WH didn't support me.

neither did mine, not when my grandparents died, not when my dad was having a heart attack..in fact he chose those times when i was at my most vulnerable to attack me on bahalf of his foo.... ....this thank god has changed, if it didn't along with all the changes he has made there would be no staying together for the kids..he would be picking his clothes up off the lawn...(one of my little fantasies, not as good as a fantasy as cabana boys though )....

anyways has this changed for you?....especially from what i could gather you ARE in reconilliation....

i read your profile earlier, if my memory serves me correct you are still new to his supposed whole truth....

if i had a nickle, just a nickle for everytime my ws said i had it all, damn i would be financially independent by now!!!

so i hope however you got the latest info is reliable on that there is no more, if not, if he he the source...then be prepared because there might be more...the evils of tt, you will never really know if you have it all...although this doesnt seem to be a source of pain for you, and that is awesome...share your secret with us...inquiring minds want to know...


I can feel the stress in my chest as I'm thinking about opening up because I'm so afraid. And I never end up feeling better. I have to tell him this stuff, but I really really really don't want to. He gets defensive and doesn't seem to hear the ME in what I'm saying.

then i wouldn't open up to him just yet until he perfects as much as he can his communication skills and you could tell him just that...and save it for mc, i hope you are weekly, if not make it weekly....

is he doing any other work for you and the marriage??


Unless of course I throw a big hissy and act like a big asshole. In which case it seems to break through WH's defenses and he is able to show sympathy. I hate that. I hate myself when I do that. It is so beneath me. But it works so...

first i would want to know what exactly you do throw a "big hissy".....and why would this be beneath you....

let me tell you something, prior to d-day i hardly ever cursed, now i curse like a sailor, even some in front of my kids, self control seems to have gone by the wayside, however this is at least controlled to an extent because what i really want to do would put me in jail....so when it comes to self judgement, cut yourself some slack here,...unless of course your actions will land you in jail then in fact you need to stop them...jail is not for us...nope, not for us...


ok some questions if i may:

why are you choosing to reconile?

this answer might help you put things in perspective for you, at least i hope, it may not though...but if you could at least see why you want to save your marriage it might help you "see" beyond some pain, not all, just some....because then you might actually be able to visualize the end of road, the prize at the end of the game..so to speak...although this is one shitty game...

next question: what is your ws doing to save your marriage?, is he doing the work that he needs to do or is he leaving it all up to you???

have you made a list of your needs?, if you have not done this i highly recommend it, he cannot meet them if he doesn't know what they are...and you might want to list them in order of necessity...include your dealbreakers if you have any, i hope you do..there are certain behaviors that need never be put up with ever again...as i always say to pfm, do those things again then there is the door and please DO let it hit you in the ass on the way out!!!!

and nell you do not have to answer these questions to me but you should at some point ask yourself these questions and answer yourself honestly...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 3:37 PM, September 21st (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

Think I may have had a little break through last night. After we had sex we were sitting having a cup of tea and I said "I want to tell you something and you're not going to like it". He moaned and groaned and said don't spoil the evening and I told him I had to say it. Then told him that the first time we did "a particular thing" (during sex which I had resisted in the past) after Dday I did it because I didn't want OWs to be the last women to do this with him. (meant taking back my territory but didn't want to use this expression with him). I wanted to take that from them. I said but now I quite like it.

He then said "Why do we have to talk about these things? Why can't we just go on from here?" I said "Because I can't and I need you to talk about it". He said "But why, I don't want to talk about them". I said "But I think about them all the time and I think that what I imagine is probably worse than the truth. I need you to talk to me about it. I need to know everything. And you need to talk about it or I think you'll do it again." He said "But I don't remember lots of things. What do you want to know". I said "Everything. I don't care what it is. I just want to know everything about that time. Right from the start. You need to just begin at the beginning and tell me everything you remember. I need to know everything. I can't get better until I do.I need to know when, where, how you felt, what you said, what you did, what you thought -EVERYTHING"

He was very quiet for a while and really seemed to finally get what I was trying to say. I then said "You lied to me and deceived me for so long. I need you to tell me everything you remember to get better. I don't want you to tell me now (it was 11.30 at night and we were both tired. I also wanted him to have time to think about what I wanted) but you do need to know that I can't get better until you tell me everything".

Miracle

I felt so good after this. I also kept thinking about your advice about going slowly and plantng the seeds. I have been so desperate to know it all but now I see that maybe I needed to be patient. I really feel like I am having some success finally. I think he will think about what I said. Hopefully I will be able once again to gently ask and one day I think it will happen. My greatest fear was that it never would - that he'd never be able to be honest with me about it - and so I'd never be able to forgive him. I believe that if he can really tell me all he remembers we really can make it. (No my greatest fear is that he'll do it again). Because I feel he finally "gets it" I think now it will happen and so am able to be patient. If I am patient I think he will be more able to be honest and will be more likely to tell me more.

I sure hope so.

Can't express how much SI has helped me. I don't think I'd be as "together" as I am without it. The great advice you've all given has got me to where I am.

((((((((TRIBE))))))))))


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, September 21st (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((laura)))

be patient, water regularly (food for thought), and expose to light (lots of light)(encouragement and safety)..remember not all seeds takem some are just duds....i pray you get your garden....

gots to do dinner now,


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, September 21st (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

miracle.
Thanks for worring about me. That is nice of you. I was going to say that you are wise, intellegent, caring, loving mom, and a gorgeous woman inside and out, but nofun beat me to it. Can you believe that I was thinking the same thoughts as nofun was? Great minds think alike!

UKgirl.
WOW! Thank you. I should check in more often.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


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