Laura -- That is not remorse. And his actions are not a mistake. A mistake is when I accidentally totaled WH's beloved car a few months after Dday. Your husband's "mistake" was a deliberately deceptive course of conduct spanning 16 years. It's his (lack of) character.
Allgood -- Of course you're not in love. What would it take to make you feel that way? Don't interrogate -- but bring it up and state facts. I don't like that you did X. It made me feel Y. I worried and the thoughts I thought while worrying were Z. I'm not saying this to attack you -- I'm telling you because I see that you're still here, still telling me I'm your world, still trying and you need to know what you're up against. You might be trying, but even at that you're still not doing enough. It's not fair for you to not know the full scope of the battle you're fighting.
Or not. You could just have girls night and get drunk and bitch about men.
ATS -- I'm just going to hug you ((ATS)) I've got nothing useful to add. Keep us updated.
UKG -- Some men have a type. I have this one book about A's written by a counsleor where she said sometimes she sees men having an A with a total clone, so close that she can't even figure what they're getting out of the A.
Stop -- I would do whatever you have to do to make sure she can't get access to the $, or as little as possible. You just can't let her bankrupt you before she dies. You're not an idiot. You're a person who got dealt a craptastic hand.
Jeesh. I event took notes and I can't address everything.
Honest -- it doesn't matter if they A down or not. THEY are the "down".
I remind myself constantly that I'd rather be the BS if I had to be on one side of this equation or the other.
As for getting over it in weeks or months (can't remember who said this -- maybe Laura) the answer is NEVER. Your only choice is never getting over it with or without your spouse. See, it's an effing tragedy. It just is. It's like when my neighbor ran his son over in the driveway by accident and killed him. Every time I see my kids near the driveway I think about it and I was like 12 when my neighbor got killed. It's just too horrific to go away.
But, I'm going to channel tryn here -- at some point you must either let your spouse go (D) or put it to rest. YOU will never, ever forget it. Look at fnf -- 5 years out and here she is. Often.
See, you can't let other people dictate your feelings. I think we spend too much of our lives reacting. This point it a long-term point and not for the newbies, but at some point (looks like it was about 2 years for tryn) you must say to yourself -- self, I can't live in the past. This is my reality and I owe it to myself to travel this path the best way I know how. Now, only you know what that means to you, or what that path is, but what I wish for you all is to look up 2 years from your Dday and to be at peace the way tryn was not long ago. And fnf, you're at a sort of peace too.
See, it's so hard for us to understand why they didn't want the love we have to offer. But they don't. Not the full scope of it. Then again, not to get too religious but it's a decent analogy, God has limitless love for all his creatures and yet we turn away from the force of it in endless small and large ways; and our WS's are people who have turned themselves away from love, both human and divine, in one of the greatest ways possible.
NjGal/stop, about SA's so true. I think njgal and I have discussed before that OW in my stich is likely SA. and my nanny who is her former nanny said she saw a lifetime movie about a female SA and it gave her chills because it was just like living with OW again. She said she'd almost feel sorry for her if OW hadn't been so awful to her.
Anyway, I think most good people are believers in wanting to better the world, and I know I am a big believer in saving *someone*. I can't save everyone, but I just noticed today that all the people I'm saving, I'm saving from OW. Wow.
Allgood -- I liked your husband's note too. If he didn't want to "talk" when you texted him -- are you still having sex? Might try some dirty talk instead, LOL. Something like texting back "I did want to talk about my feelings; I wanted to talk about how I feel when you (insert dirt here)..."
I dunno. Being a BS has given me a huge shot of WS-like compartmentalizing. My sex life and the state of my marriage are completely separate entitites in my mind.
Ok. Peace to you all. No updates or vents from me -- just IC with me and WH Friday afternoon.
I emailed FWW that I would pick up DS after band as usual this week. I texted to let her know I was coming by the house over lunch for a couple of things I forgot. She had a Dr. appt this morning, I had been going with her, but... Otherwise, no word from her since i dropped her at the house yesterday.
I have thought a lot about what I need to start back towards R. I am pretty well over the A crap. Yes, I wish that she were more open and honest about the relationships and what they did, but I can live with what I do and do not know. The only on-going issue from the A is the continuing lack of trust. She lied soon after dday, nearly everything she told me that I could verify was untrue. Months 3 – 6 she TT, but mostly lied. This trip she told me going into the trip what I needed to hear to feel safe, and then she did not do a damned thing she said she was going to do. I need to feel that I am the most important person in her life. I need her to trust me enough to be honest, and then follow-through. IWAM was right, FWEW and I do pretty good when it is us, when her family is drawn in it has gone to hell, every time.
IRL, my supporters believe it is time to D. My parents are no longer neutral; they believe it is time to end it. My couple of close friends have long thought I was working too hard to try to keep the M together. Even FWW’s younger DD who I get along with well, told me over the weekend that I need to leave her Mother if I cannot trust her and get over it.
I would like to hire a law firm I spoke to last fall that specializes in cooperative and collaborative divorces. My gut tells me that when it gets hard, FWW will bite back. I believe that she will try to correct every perceived wrong in her first D in ours.
Today I check in to the extended stay place, I hope it is better than the room was. We (I) cannot afford split living forever, and we cannot afford a prolonged legal battle of wills. I am hopeful that in a few days FWW and I can agree to talk about D, bankruptcy, DS18 and college, DS14 and school, etc.
eta: I called FWW to see how the Dr. visit went. He recomended surgery and hysterectomy to address the prolapse, but said not rush. He also mentioned (second medical person now)lumps in her left breast. FWW is going for breast exam Thursday, she had quit going for over a year. Her mother had breast cancer so FWW is at risk.
Not any real talk about us, but from the discussion of medical insurance and other issues it sounds like she is settled on the D happening and not trying to fix (her) the M. She had to get off the phone, they were waiting for her at work.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 9:46 AM, September 27th (Monday)]
YOU will never, ever forget it. Look at fnf -- 5 years out and here she is. Often.
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 1:53 PM, September 27th (Monday)]
I have thought a lot about what I need to start back towards R.
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 10:07 AM, September 27th (Monday)]
ATS- I'm just sending you my hugs. ((((ats))))
I'm lurking for now...I can't keep up with all of you!!
I agree with NJgal about all the BPD stuff. When I was reading your descriptions about your Ws actions I was thinking that all this insanity sounded so familiar. They do make a mountain out of a mole hill and if there really is a problem to deal with, they make it 5 times worse. Of course it is always your fault. You are the easy target........
Tribe. No time for me to spread anymore wisdom today. I am and have been thinking of everybody.
Hugs to the tribe.
tryn would be so proud of your post.
The thing I didn't say that I wanted to say but somehow didn't spit out right is: YOU will never forget about it -- but you need to let your WS forget about it at some point. Not every WS will, but I suspect many do. If you can compartmentalize that well -- well, my guess is you can make the A "all go away" too.
And you know what? That's their own weakness. What you do is, concentrate on the here and now.
Sooo... having said that: ATS. Learn from the wise baby old-soul M3. You need to 180. Hard 180. And FAST divorce. And get custody of your kid. Your WW -- NOT a good mother. NOT. Person who maligns you to others? NOT a good mother. She won't refrain from doing that to your DS. BPD? NOT a good mother...
Look, ATS, some men just have a thing for crazy women (trust me, I know ) but IRL crazy just gets to be exhausting eventually. It's pretty clear your WW has some sort of personality disorder -- and you owe it to yourself to not be with someone like that. Personality disorders aren't all that treatable. It's just a fancy way of saying someone is a heartless jerk. Cut her loose. You won't end up alone. Think of what a great time you had at that bar with strangers not long ago . . . you are so much stronger than you realize.
Hard 180. Promise me. Just try it for one week. And get your kid for the weekend. I want you to not call her, not see her, no text, e-mail etc. Get to an attorney and file whatever you file in FL to get custody and use of the house for now. Use your MC records against her if you have to. Ask for everything you're entitled to in the D and you can settle if you absolutely have to.
YOU ARE THE PERSON WHO WAS WRONGED.
And, later, you're going to feel like you screwed yourself over if you don't go for everything right now.
Ah -- did we all forget that M3 is a mean, sharky lawyer? I seriously wear shark jewelry.
180. Seven days. After that, your call on whether you continue, but she needs a taste. When you falter, remember us. Just do it for us until you feel strong enough to do it for you.
Wow. I'm being really bossy.
Ok, THINK about trying this. Think about how reading this made you feel and that will tell you a lot about what you need.
But, I would at least be passive. Sometimes passive is ok (not passive-aggressive, that's a whole other story...and not OK.)
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 1:50 PM, September 27th (Monday)]
ats: take it all ONE STEP AT A TIME.....(((ats)))
honest: check in with us hon, i know his visit is coming to an end soon, tomorrow if i remember correctly....and if i have him pegged right, he is either turning it all on full force or turning away full force...i don't think he does too much half way, but still a difference when its full force...that unrelenting hounddog, pfm used to be that animal...
i would like to give a shout out to all the lurkers, and oldies who do not post too often but all of you who try to keep up with us....its more then ok if you cannot...even those of us who post daily, and many times a day have a hard time keeping up with this wonderful bunch...we all get chatty and love to hear all pov's on whatever topic is at hand....and of course the hugs when one of us is having immediate issues are always welcome....
the hugs include you all....
Are you O.K. That last post was kind of short......for you.
No matter how many times a spouse tells us that they never stopped loving us during their years of betrayal, there is no way I will ever accept that. This is not my definition of love. And so we grieve what we lost or never really had.
This for me is the greatest cause for pain. So many years where I didn't matter enough - I was so hurt by his casual nasty remarks or indifference to me and my needs. Now I know why!
The rage and pain and hurt have slowly gone away but unfortunately have been replaced with indifference.
At this point (4 months from Dday) I would welcome indifference as less painful but I know that when/if it does come it will only be a different kind of pain. I think I'm afraid that I'll put in all the hard work trying to R and when indifference comes decide to D and feel that I've wasted more precious years.
I get the feeling that some of our FWS's actually believe that if they just discontinue the A they have "reconciled" themselves and therefore the M.
I think this is where my H is now. He is also very attentive, considerate and trying to make me laugh when I'm down. In his own limited way I do think he's trying. He's still TT but I do see his efforts here as genuine - in his own limited way. He's a very weak person so from his point of view I think he believes he's really trying. I have some more questions for him today so sill be hopeful he can be honest.
It's his (lack of) character.
Yes! His lack of character is the cause of the TT.
YOU will never forget about it -- but you need to let your WS forget about it at some point........If you can compartmentalize that well -- well, my guess is you can make the A "all go away" too.
Hope I can do this eventually. Have this awful image of lying on my death bed, (in many yrs time I hope), looking at him and still just seeing the betrayal.
I have not posted but have followed your story closely for the last few days. .I don't know what to say to help you. Your other frieds on here know your story so well. I hope you are listening to their advice.
I am going to visit my children (300kms away) for a few days. Leaving tomorrow (wed). H off work tues and wed and is busy all day wed with nephew. I will be away wed, thurs, fri, sat.
OW3 is moving back to town on thursday (know from her FB). I am very nervous as I haven't been away and left him home alone since Dday. I know I have to face this. I know from my tech toys that he has been NC (except maybe at work ? he has told me about business C) since Dday. But maybe he has just been very careful??? I'm 90% sure all is OK but for me this is a test for him. I think that if he wants to have C he will think he can get away with it while I'm away. I WILL know if he does (toys) but it's so stressful cause I will have to wait until I get home to find out.
There was no mobile (cell) phone reception at her old place in the mountains and this was one of the clues for me about his A. There were many times before DDay I tried to phone and he didn't answer. It was because he was there. He always said his phone was off and he didn't realise. Now that she is in town if he is with her I will still be able to get him. He knows this so if he is still in C he may become careless not realising I can track him.
BIG TEST. I'm 90% sure he will pass and am looking forward to the reassurance at the same time as I am scared he may do it again.
So today for me is about asking a few more questions and praying I don;t get "Idon't know" or "I can't remember". Yesterday I got a few good responses so hopefully he's getting better. The next few days are the BIG TEST which will continue for the next few weeks as she gets settled into her new home and as he would think I wouldn't know if he visited her when in fact I will.
HUGS to all
i have a terrible time trying to keep up in this forum. And I am so sad lately. So terribly sad that my motivation is crap to do anything. I am trying to read along but it's hard for me to keep up with anything right now.
Thanks so much for all your help. I'll be back here and there!
I'm glad things are better for your son than they sounded. And I'm sorry your wife is such a mess.
(((hugs to all)))
For those of you who don't know my story, my husband confessed to two LTAs just over three years ago. The LTAs had ended 7 years prior but the pain and shock was just as brutal. Three months of attempting at R, then I find out he has never been faithful. 15 OW in total throughout our entire 25 year marriage. Complete shock and devastation.
I am writing this to let you know a sad fact - some days I am okay and some days I am still a mess. I just restarted IC again last week because I felt like I was coming unglued again. I have, like FNF, successfully kept my family but I was starting to wonder at what cost to myself. I have gotten to indifference - I am still angry and in pain. What is really sad is that, in my case, I believe my H is doing EVERYTHING that you could ask of an XWH. He has been in intense therapy for three years and continues to go. He has read all the books. We have attended two Imago weekends. His actions have changed significantly. His words have changed as well. But, in my heart, it doesn't matter. He killed the marriage, the relationship and, I am beginning to think, some really vital piece of me.
I feel like I am at some crossroad where I have to choose between a life of meaninglessness in my relationship with him but holding my family together or divorce and trying to find someone with whom I can share intimacy.
After meeting a new IC, I started a list which is a little scary quite frankly. Other than the family, I am beginning to believe that I am here because it is all I have ever known and therefore "easier". I, too, have separated the sex completely from the relationship and, quite frankly, am enjoying it much more. I find it hard to believe that I could find someone that I have as much in common with as my H (not talking about being a cheating asshole but all the other stuff). We are both athletic, love outdoors, love to cook/dine out, travel, read, etc, etc, etc. and did I mention great sex?
I honestly don't know if I could (or would try hard enough) to recreate this with someone else. But, do I continue to damage myself by staying with someone who has proven himself extremely dangerous and willing to hurt me?
So 3+ years out, I am still struggling. Sorry to be a major downer but I didn't want everyone to think that if your spouse does everything right that you will be just fine.
Just read your last few pages. I am sorry but not only is your wife not at all remorseful, I am seeing giant waving red flags that she might be up to something else. She was away (even though you didn't want her to be) staying at a hotel without your knowledge, treating you like crap and not acknowledging that she is acting like an asshat? Sounds like affair behavior to me. Please protect yourself, get a lawyer ASAP, protect your son and take care of yourself.
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 6:03 PM, September 27th (Monday)]
I'm just hoping for some peace in my life going forward.
i am so sorry to hear that its not as good as it could be or should have been...but to hear that the rest of your relationship is good is actually a good thing...there are a few of you seemingly in the same boat, fnf and njgal as well yourself...a couple of years out and most of what was requested was given...the eternal optimist in me still holds out hope that you will find if not happiness then contentment...
i sometimes think that the word "happiness" can be overrated...but if you are content within your life, and are at peace with so much in your life then to me that would be happiness...
yes a piece of who we were prior to d-day has been destroyed, an innocence that we all possessed and will never have again, kind of like your virginity, once its gone, its gone...
i think if most of your days are filled with happy moments then you have a good life...is it perfect..NO...but what really is....the only thing that i have ever witnessed as perfect is a newborns smile...til they cry...
we all expected that our marriages to be happy would have that trust, that blind trust....alas not for us....
lostsoul: i am so sorry for your pain, i know why you stay, i also know what gives you joy....maybe its time to find something other then the grandkids to give you a sense of purpose...sometimes we need to have a sense of purpose to fill some of the voids...fill your life with other purposes to give you happiness at other levels...
laura: i hope you come home to find he was true to his word...i really do...