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User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 20
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Default  Posted: 8:41 PM, September 27th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage has taken me several days to catch up on this thread. So much pain from some newbies and old-timers alike.

ATS - my heart breaks for you. Although I'm still pretty new at this your comments have always struck me with how committed you are to R in such a tough, tough situation. I am in awe of your strength and I will pray for some resolution to your sich that will bring you the peace and happiness that you deserve.

As for me....WH and I went away for two night to rekindle our sex life. It was a huge success! Who would have guessed that at my age I could reinvent myself? Both WH and I worked very hard to keep thoughts of the A at bay and we were pretty successful, until the ride home, of course. That's when the wheels fell off the bus. WH said something thoughtless, I took it the wrong way and we ended up with total silence for about an hour. So we ended the weekend with tears and anger. Wow! That was fun...NOT. We went round and round again yesterday morning. WH is still surprised and not used to thinking that everything and I do mean everything in my life has been touched by the A! After the tears, the things I've had him read, the comments from IC/MC he just doesn't think about how the A has affected every part of my life. Idiot!

So...this morning I borrowed a comment made on this forum. Forgive me, I cannot remember who said/wrote it, but it was about having to eat the sh__ sandwhich. I told WH that he had spent about 5 years making a huge sh__ sandwich that I now had to eat. The sandwich is so big it will likely take me years to eat it all. Some days I only take small nibbles but other days I have to take huge bites. And no matter how much I eat there is still more there for me to eat. He can help at times but trying to put some ketchup on it to make it not taste as bad, but no one can eat the sandwich for me. No matter what...that sandwich is there and I have to finish it. So I finish the analogy and WH goes out for his run. When he returns he says...."I feel guilty for making you eat that sandwich." This is HUGE! WH has never expressed guilt about the A, in fact he doesn't express/feel guilt very often at all. So for him to think this, much less say it is quite a step for him. As for me, every time I get optimistic I remember that he lied to me over and over again for 4+ years and I feel depressed all over again.

However, I feel like I am taking the path of least regret. I honestly don't know if I will ever be able to accept and live with my WH after the pain he has caused me. My parents divorced when I was in college so I know the pain of having a family split apart, but at some point I know that I deserve more than spending my life with someone I feel indifferent about. I'm still waiting to see how committed WH is to making some changes in himself. Because of $$ issues from having him take off days from work due to my concerns about his being on lay-overs, our money is tight. (That was what we were fighting about on the drive home.) So...I asked him to sell a collector car that he has had for many years. I struggled with asking him to do it and honestly I was pissed that he didn't just offer to do it without my asking...but....when I asked he immediately agreed. That takes some of the stress off of me in asking him to drop some of his trips to be at home more and out of the lay-over hotels.

Like many of you I'm struggling with the loss of the M I thought I had. Sadly, it did not exist for the last 5 years, I just didn't know it until 3 mos. ago.

Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
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Default  Posted: 9:31 PM, September 27th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm seriously thinking that the hell with keeping the family together. Maybe I should be true to myself as H said and bail. He said I deserve someone who will love me, appreciate me, and treat me as he is unable to do. WTF? Does he want me to bail? Maybe Miracle is right, he wants out and he's waiting for me to do it.

If I'm feeling what fnf is feeling after all these years, why should I wait to see if I will feel better? Clearly I won't! I've been planning my escape, maybe I should act on it sooner than later?

Can you tell I'm having a bad night?

BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
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Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, September 27th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I went away for the weekend and was very busy today so wasn't able to get on for a while. It actually took me over an hour to read all the posts.

First of all....ATS.


You have put so much of yourself into this R. It has consumed you and you have done your share and hers for much too long.

I believe at this point you do need to 180 FOR YOURSELF. Give yourself a break and let WW take up the slack. I truly understand how hard this will be for you. I think that as a BS, many of us felt that we lost control of our lives and we try so hard to R to get some control back. In a way, that may be the case for you. Your WW is a damaged person and has lost all control of herself. Although you want to help her with all your heart and soul, there is a point that she must do some of this work for herself and not just plod along with you.

Ats, oh, Ats, it's not that she doesn't love you, I believe she loves you as much as she is capable of. She doesn't love herself and for what it's worth, she loves you more than she loves herself.

But is that enough?

180, dear Ats. Lawyer up and see what is needed to be done. I would also consider custody of your DS 14 too. You could even tell your WW you are doing that so she can get help for herself and focus on healing herself...I truly believe that would be best for her, you and DS.

I am so sorry for all of this for you.

You are a good person and your wife must have good in her too, or you wouldn't love her so, BUT, and this is a big BUT, she is damaged, it's not her fault, but you cannot lose yourself in trying to fix/cure her. She has to do a lot of work for herself. You cannot do it for her.

Keep posting and venting here. {{{{{Ats}}}

Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
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Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, September 27th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I'm glad you are posting and venting. My IC always says don't make decisions on pure emotions, but what you are saying is something you can really think about.

God, I wish we could all go on a SI weekend just to talk, get away, regroup, go to workshops etc. Kind of a retreat....

Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
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Default  Posted: 10:12 PM, September 27th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

strong: has taken me several days to catch up on this thread.

you actually caught up..yay...not an easy task...

your weekend: while it ended on a bad note, that does not negate the fact that you had a great time til then...concentrate on the positive, not the negative...

and to be able to keep the thoughts at bay deserves an award at the very least..

i love that he listened to your analogy and "got it"

i love that he came back to you after giving it some thought and didn't let it drop but apologized...

so i'm thinkin that even though it had this hiccup at the end, that hiccup was necessary to get out the rest...because now the man has a little bit of insight...and that is worth so much more...


Maybe Miracle is right, he wants out and he's waiting for me to do it.

that is not what i said, what i said is that he may be pushing you to test you, he doesn't believe youre staying is for real...i do not believe he wants you to leave, not one iota..

sometimes people will push those they love, test them if you will, to make sure that they really want to stay, to make sure that the other person really wants it...and i know this well because its what i did when i was a teenager with some boyfriends, i would push and push and see if they would have the stamina to stay, not to put up with it, but to stay in spite of it...its a huge defense mechanism...and it allows you to wallow a bit and blame the other person, even though you are the one doing the pushing, if that person really loves you the way they say they do, they will fight for the relationship...and it became a lose lose sich...thank god i grew up...although thinkin about it, maybe it would have been a good idea to wait until i scared pfm away...except for my kids though...

honest: its good to see you back and posting..dare i ask???

si retreat sounds like a great idea to me...i'm game...

ats: where are ya?...check in, kkkk!!!

i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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Default  Posted: 12:35 AM, September 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf, ukgirl, hurtshirley, (I think NJgirl posted something on this too):

You guys are further along with WH's that seemed to have done some work.

I reread what hurtshirley said that the A caused the death of a vital part of her.

I truly understand what you guys are saying about having to give up some vital part of yourselves to R and if you are truly happy.

My first xWH cheated and left without trying to work it out at all. It took me well over 10 years to FULLY reconcile with that knowledge, to fully heal from that and to accept it. Divorce is extremely painful. It is very difficult to live with when you have kids. No matter what, you still see xH in the future because you share kids, even when they are grown and married and have kids of their own.

No matter whether or not one stays to R or D, a vital part of ourselves is forever gone. Perhaps if we stay and R and give so much of ourselves up for the M, we may get resentful years later of all the sacrifices we did and all the pain we went through and wonder if it was all worth it.

Well, I guess you do get to another crossroads in your life. Do you really want to continue on this path? Is this where you want to go?

I'm coming to realize that there is no black and white with relationships. I know of a couple that D and years later started dating again, but the W did NOT want to remarry. She was happy on her own, happy to be "dating" former H. They worked out their own thing.

That is what we should all out our own thing, our own relationship with mutually understandable and agreeable terms, expectations, etc.

I don't know if I'm making any sense at all....I'm rambling.

Allgood, I wrote a poem ages ago about "falling in love all over again". I feel that happens often in marriage. We go along, loving our spouse, but not feeling "in love", but many times, it can happen again, and not when you are trying to make it happen. Relax about being "in love" right now. Of course you are not going to feel that. But, hopefully in time, if Mr. Allgood steps up to the plate, you may start feeling it again.

Update on me? Maybe tomorrow when WH leaves. How long will he be gone? Maybe Nov. I really don't care anymore, because finally I'm not "in love" with him anymore, although I still love the bastard. I'm a glutton for punishment I guess

Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
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Default  Posted: 2:16 AM, September 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Still can't catch up and don't have much time but wanted to respond to Hurt Shirley.

It must be reunion week here!

I don't necessarily think what you're going through right now is cause for despair. It's what I think of as healing stage 2 where you move on from the marriage to you. I also restarted IC around the same point for a lot of the same reasons. You've had a chance to catch your breath from the immediate blows and now you need to reassess. At the beginning maintaining status quo is all that seems important but after a while it's not enough.

I don't have any incredible words of wisdom other than to keep putting one foot in front of the other for a while and I think things will swim into focus. What you ideally want is to make a conscious choice to truly move forward.

I had a real light bulb breakthrough in IC when I restarted (new IC, first session) that helped me understand some of my inability to let go of the anger and sadness, even this far out. Like yours, my H has done some major work on himself but it didn't undo the damage as far as I was concerned.

And I know this sounds trite, but I think we're around the same age. I've noticed that a lot of my friends (without infidelity in their marriages) are going through similar questioning and reassessing of careers, marriages, etc.

Sorry I don't have something more concrete and helpful. I will say that five years seems like a long time, but I'm in a much better place than I was at three years.

Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1483 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Default  Posted: 5:37 AM, September 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jeez- I'm here all the time & I still cant catch up! Lol.
That's a good thing, I suppose - good that we are all here for each other, I mean.

Fun: of course, your H's twin, my H, says the same kind of thing to me - that he doesn't think I should be with him & he thinks I am only here because I am too afraid to be with someone else, amongst other reasons - but that's the 1 he cites most frequently. This has been going on from day 1 - right from DDay he said he didn't think it was going to work , but wanted to stay for as long as I would have him. From time to time, when he says stuff like that - I tell him that if I really wanted this M - I would never say such things - he'll even say he thinks I should be with someone else. He says thats just what he thinks.

I agree with everyone else in that YOU need to make this decision whenyou are ready. I've stopped pressuring myself to decide whether this R will work or not. As someone said - you will know when you are ready to leave your M. You don't do it with ambivalence.

Honest: I understand what you are saying about love - but I don't know if I even like him anymore. I think in some demented way that's why I've been preferring to text over talking because I can have fun banter with him - and it's not so personal - like I can almost forget he's the a-hole that led a double life, then added insult to injury by his selfish/stupid actions since DDay. It all comes down to selfishness & a lack of basic respect for me - something I now see was in him all along.

Anyway - I'm happy to have this feeling of indifference for now.

Ats - yes, please check in!

Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
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Default  Posted: 6:51 AM, September 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been reading a lot of indifference posts... and I just wanted to throw my hat into that ring. iwam asked if I loved my WH. I've been thinking about it, I've been praying about it, I've gone back to journals I kept when we first dated to see if I could reconnect with my back-then-limerance feelings, I've even been making lists about it, and I still don't know. After talking briefly to WH last night, though, I do know that he doesn't "get it" and I don't know if he ever will. It might help if he, you know, DID something (like finish reading one of the two infidelity books we started back in January) instead of thinking about it and coming up with his own (demented and WRONG) ideas. Oh well. Little feet coming down the stairs but I've nothing terribly insightful to say anyway.

BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
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Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, September 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Indifference, since it's the topic of the day:

I am NOT indifferent and I DO love my husband, very much.

Try looking at this:

There are three aspects that define love: passion, intimacy and commitment. The passion aspect of love is the desire for physical closeness. The intimacy aspect of love is the desire for emotional closeness. The commitment aspect is the shaping of the will to love no matter what.

I see the same thing here amongst many of us: passion seems to be greater than intimacy. Just a thought. It's one reason I really believe that sex for some WS's IS better with their spouse. I never asked though, because I just don't care.

Anyway, thinking of your marriage in those terms might be helpful.

Laura, the lack of character is the cause of the TT, true, but ALSO the affair itself.

and -- 2X4 No more OW3 FB! You're tormenting yourself. Your tech toys will keep you informed, so forget about her. She's nothing. She was available -- I'm guessing that was her "best feature" so to speak.

ATS -- remember in Star Wars where Padme is lying on the birthing table, saying "there is still good in him, Obi Wan, I just know it . . ."? Don't "die" for this.


Is your WH different? Seems like he is. Can you give him credit for that? If not, what would it take?

Why does it damage you to be with him?

Why does your need for intimacy have to come from him?

Make a list of your needs as a person and see how many of them you can get filled outside your marriage (without having an A) and then see how you feel.

I've been doing this and I feel so much happier. My old IC suggested this and pointed out that my WH was clueless enough about his own feelings that he probably wouldn't even notice, ha ha.

I read an article in the advice column. This woman wrote in and said that her husband had an A, they stayed together another 30 years and it never happened again, but she always held a part of herself back from him until he developed terminal cancer and then she realized that him dying was going to hurt so much worse than the A had and suddenly she gave 100% to him -- never regretted it -- but deeply regretted that she hadn't done it sooner.

Something really resonated in me with that -- just a thought.

BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
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Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, September 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

G'morning Tribe, I am here.

Living in hotels lost its appeal when I worked as a consultant 25 years ago. The appeal is still gone.

OBTW, Good Morning FWW.

No response to emails, voicemail or texts to DS14. I will talk to him tonight when I pick him up after band practice.

I spent most of the night trying to figure out how to use my amazing power to ruin other people's events from 1,000's of miles away to make some money. It is not much of a super power, but hey, you work with what you got.

I also think I found a way to get from where I am staying to work without necessarily being killed by a truck or traffic. I will pick up my bicycle from the house and try it. A little long, but I can use the exercise and I have lots of time.


[This message edited by atsenaotie at 7:45 AM, September 28th (Tuesday)]

FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
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Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, September 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I spent most of the night trying to figure out how to use my amazing power to ruin other people's events from 1,000's of miles away to make some money. It is not much of a super power, but hey, you work with what you got.

Well, I'm + 1000 miles away so I'll give you $100 to tip off OW's BH (yeah, I know, I suck, I still haven't done it. I have my raft of excuses...)

BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

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Default  Posted: 8:17 AM, September 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats: at least your humor is thinkin that will be a saving grace for you....

please remember that in all you do that your son needs represent stability...

honest: you sound good...almost too wondering whats beneath that surface...and i am praying that it is indeed nothing and that you are emotionally getting it together...i know its not all there, but the path you are travelling seems like a good one...

i am really happy that he is leaving...the more time on your own the more you will come into yourself so to speak....


you are not going to find the answer of whether or not you love your husband by going back in time, reading lists, making lists or use whether or not he is getting it as a for the limerance...not a concept i have much belief in...feelings are just that feelings..they do not have to make sense, they do not have to have good reason, they do not respond to logic...they just are....

to know whether or not you love the man ask yourself a series of questions...starting with:

close your eyes, do some deep breathing and then imagine you are happy, you are in your favorite vacation spot, you find out that the affair never took place, it was all some huge mistake...the phone rings and its your husband...will you be happy to hear his voice...will you want to see him..

the next one: again close your eyes, do some deep breathing..then imagine this is your reality, he did cheat, its all real...the doorbell rings...on the other side of the door is a police officer and he tells you that he was in a serious accident, he does not know anything else...he will escort you to the hospital...what will you be praying for...will it be for him to be ok, get to the hospital and they tell you that he is barely hangin on...what do you feel, do you want him to make see him, he tells you that he is so sorry that he loves you beyond all measure and he is beyone sorry...he just wants you to know that he loves you more then anything in this world...the doctors come in and tell you that you need to step out there is a crisis, you step out...what are you praying for...these could possibly be his dying words what do you feel...not think but feel...

if at anytime you felt it that love that you feel when you want to be with that person or is the love of another human being the father of your kids....

gotta go for now...

i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, September 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After meeting a new IC, I started a list which is a little scary quite frankly.

HS - what kind of list did he/she want you to make?
What is so scary about the list? I'd love to hear more about this and maybe try to do one myself.

I find it hard to believe that I could find someone that I have as much in common with as my H (not talking about being a cheating asshole but all the other stuff). We are both athletic, love outdoors, love to cook/dine out, travel, read, etc, etc, etc. and did I mention great sex?

This is something I think is very important for everyone to analyze critically in their own decision to stay or leave. What in your life/M is extremely satisfying and what are the things that continue to haunt you? (Maybe this is the list you've been doing HS?)
FWIW, keeping my family together is very satisfying but so is our financial situation, our love of travel, our social life together, our home - from the very beginning the idea of giving up my home has been a huge factor in wanting to keep my M together. Also, I really do love my in-laws. There are a few I'm not crazy about but so many of them I truly care about.
On the negative side, it is the absence of safety that continues to haunt me. It is the one hurdle that keeps me from being totally content with my decision to stay. Am I really safe with a man who was capable of hurting me so deeply?? I think this is why, over time, I eventually came to a place of indifference. Indifference is the wall I keep up to protect myself should he ever cheat again.
I hear this a lot in UKG's posts too. She loves everything about her life but I can hear in her posts that fear (not sure if this is the right word) that her H may still want to go back to his first love.
I really didn't want to discourage anyone with my post. My main objective was to hopefully get some of the WS's to start fully engaging in R (for those who lurk ).
So NoFun - if you made that list, are the positive things in your life enough to balance out the rough times you are now having with Mr. NoFun? I agree completely with Miracle that he is desperately afraid that you want to leave and is testing you. My H does this frequently too, especially if I've had a bad day. They don't seem to have the balls to step up and do what is needed and then they whimper because they're afraid we're going to leave. I always want to say, GROW A F'ING PAIR!! They just complicate the entire process.
I also think there is so much guilt and shame and they feel they deserve to lose us and their defense is to appear indifferent.
Strong - I was so glad to hear that your H is eliminating some of the layovers and "immediately agreed" to sell what I believe must be a prized possession. Now this is what I'm talking about. When we see things like this, we know they are serious about wanting to R.
Honest - It's so good to see you too. You sound relaxed so I'm assuming your weekend went well. Did your sons go too?? Take care and protect your heart. (((Honest)))
I had a real light bulb breakthrough in IC when I restarted (new IC, first session) that helped me understand some of my inability to let go of the anger and sadness, even this far out

Brooke - it's good to see you again too. Wow, now we just need LH to check in and UKG - where are you??
I read this and was curious to know what that "lightbulb moment" was. Please share it with us if you can. Wouldn't mind a lightbulb or two going off in my head.
Miracle - as always you've giving great advice and "nurturing" all of us - now what's going on with you????? How are things going in the Miracle home??
There are three aspects that define love: passion, intimacy and commitment. The passion aspect of love is the desire for physical closeness. The intimacy aspect of love is the desire for emotional closeness. The commitment aspect is the shaping of the will to love no matter what.

M33 - I love this!!! I especially love the last sentence - I think this is a fantastic approach for those of us who want to work on R. I not in 100% agreement with the "no matter what" phrase but as long as there is no abuse of any kind then I agree. Thanks for posting that.
I'm not sure if I had the chance to welcome a few of our new members but I'd like to send out a warm welcome to Strongish, Laura and ImNellNow. You will find so much support and love here.
(((ATS))) and many hugs to the tribe.

D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
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Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, September 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats: I'm glad that you checked in. Keep trying DS14, God knows what WW is telling him. When you do see him later, you need to have a long talk with him. You don't have to tell him about the A, but you can still tell him how you and his mother have been trying VERY hard to save the M and you are still trying. Make sure he understands that you did not leave HIM, but the situation for a while. You will always be there for HIM and will always love HIM.

Miracle: I guess not only a WS can learn to compartmentalize. I'm not as good as they are, but it was enough to get me through a lot of days, and this past weekend, although reality kept smacking me in the face.



M3, I think indifference is necessary from time to time in the healing process. Our minds and emotions need a break for a while. It's not the same as sweeping everything under the rug, but the intenseness of all those emotions can drive us insane and end up hurting ourselves physically in insiduous ways like an ulcer, heart problems, etc.

I liked your aspects of love discussion. I think we desire to have ALL THREE aspects from one person, or may have felt that we DID have them with our WS. I think we may have even have the foundation of our whole world with WS based on that only to find out on DDay and later that one, two, or even all 3 of those aspects were not really there and it's devastating.
I believed I had the first and the last and was often unsure of the second (because of the A, I now know)

Miracle: I was trying to imagine what you were describing about love. I'm not sure now how I feel. In the hospital scenario, I would want WH to live, there would be HOPE for a better future. As for the tropical isle scenario, before dday, I would say definitely yes, but to suddenly find out it was all a mistake, I don't know, the hurt would still be there. WS's actions and words for cover up, blameshifting, etc etc are devastating on top of the actions.

WOW, had a lightbulb. All that has happened since dday 1 and 2, I wonder what the hell was I fighting for? Yes, I do still love him, BUT someone who is capable of treating another human being the way I've been treated is not someone I want to spend the rest of my life with.

He uses people.

I've always known this, but WH was so good at giving me what I thought I wanted: pretty words, the charm that covered all the dirty deeds, and I bought it hook, line and sinker.

I could be so easily lulled that all is ok and well, I guess because I want that so badly. Magical thinking. Then I get slapped in the face with reality.

But one thing that is starting to help me is to trying to take more control of myself. WH tried to control me for years by giving me emotional threats of leaving if I didn't do something he wanted.
"You can do whatever you want, but if you do x, I won't feel as close to you/I'll feel differently about you/ I'll leave/D you...." is what I was told.

LOL, he said something along the lines 2 weeks ago when I didn't want to change the outfit I was wearing (he said he felt it was like cheating on him if I was wearing something like that behind his back.....I discussed this on #19) WH started to say, "If you wear that I'll...." I cut him off and said, "What D me? Leave me? You already did, so what are you talking about?"

I also cut him short when he started spinning a request I made about wanting to know his feelings about something. I stopped him in mid sentence and told him I knew what he was doing, and he knew damn well what I wanted, and it didn't matter all the reasons in the world why I "shouldn't want it", but I did and that's the reality. He shut up, but still didn't answer me, but I felt I took back some control over ME and not just let him highjack my emotions all the time.

These things I'm describing, may sound inconsequential, but for me they are more like something that is stuck in the cogs/wheels of an engine that is jamming it and keeping it from moving ahead. Something that at first glance may seem like nothing, but are hindering me from moving forward and reclaiming ME.

I lost myself somehow over all these years trying to keep him happy, trying to make sure he loved me and wouldn't leave. I sacrificed myself, and yes a vital part of me. It's gone. I gave it to him so long ago and I cannot get it back.

I'm still mourning. Still afraid to move forward. Still afraid of the future. But I really do think I see a pinpoint of light at the end of the tunnel.

This whole thing is like WH stabbed me, kicked me, mortally wounded me and threw me down a deep dark pit where my legs were broken and then yelled at me that it was my fault I was there. He gave me false hope of getting out, wrong directions that there was an escape. I found a tunnel, but it was dark and dreary and scarey and I kept hitting my head, falling down, finding pitfalls. Sometimes I just went in a corner in a fetal position to lick my wounds only to get up and trip again or hit my head and start crawling. Sometimes in circles.

People here and IRL would try to shout encouragement, but it would echo in the tunnel of despair and hard to catch the words.

Healing takes a long time. We start to try to walk, but the legs are still broken, and sometimes get reinjured. We can start to hobble again, sometimes we need help or crutches for a time. We need to rest and take a break.

The light is so very far away. I don't really feel I'm ready for it, because one can get used to the dark because it becomes familiar and we can be afraid for more change. But I'm starting to hobble/crawl toward the pinpoint of light until it starts to grow stronger.

I think for some of us, who are further along, once you get out of the tunnel, you are so relieved you take a break and feel you worked so hard and appreciate the light. But as our eyes become accostomed to the light, we find that maybe this is not what we wanted after all, perhaps we need to journey farther along.

To all the newbies, I have you in my thoughts and prayers. I hope I can help anyone I can in the near future, but I'm still crawling along.....

Thank you tribe for calling out to me in the darkness. I cannot fully express my deep gratitude for everyone here and all the kindness and caring you give to everyone and how much you have helped me.

Luv ya all.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
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Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, September 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh -- I didn't write that by the way @ the love stuff; just found it somewhere.

I think we desire to have ALL THREE aspects from one person, or may have felt that we DID have them with our WS.

Ah, perhaps you will know part of my secret of why I try to R now. You see, a healthy person does want all three. But I was not healthy. I felt like I had passion and commitment -- but not intimacy, and I rarely wanted intimacy. I worked full time, went to school at night, studied on the weekends, spent the rest of the time with our son... I was totally fine with that. Never asked about WH's feelings -- I actually loved that he was close to OW and had her to talk to. I was equally responsible for the triangulation.

It's when I *got* healthy that I wanted the intimacy -- and it took a while to discover the A, which was the "why".

I am SO not defending WH; but at the same time I have compassion for his choice. I think being married to a bipolar can be very isolating. I suspected he'd had a ONS with OW back in '03 but said nothing at the time. I just didn't care. XH cheated on me like crazy and I never cared about that either. It was like I *couldn't* care enough for something like that to bother me. I even thought about being a WS at one point -- heck, once when I was manic I thought about starting a secret business as a "call girl".

So, ya know, very sick.

Then, back in '05 I suspected again that he was having an A. But I instinctively knew that there was a whole lot more wrong with me and that's when I went to get help. And my IC talked me out of my "he's having an A" thinking over and over for years.

That's life.

Anyway, as I was getting closer to wanting intimacy with WH I started confessing over and over that I felt like I only objectified my husband instead of appreciating him as a person I only wanted sex and $ from him. And I think it was when the priest and my prayers worked me past this that I finally was ready for that intimacy and then to have to wrest it away from OW -- the pain was unbearable in part because I could see his pain all those years, settling for scraps.

I'm not defending him. Or blaming me. There are better ways he could have (and should have) handled himself. he chose a poor way to cope. He was a 36 year old man, older than I am now, with a very sick 28 year old wife. He should have dragged me to a doctor and a marriage counselor; or even divorced me and taken our child -- he coped poorly. And this is the aftermath. But if we manage to pull this R out; our marriage will be better because it can become what it should have been.

BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
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Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, September 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thinking out loud for my own benefit...


There are three aspects that define love: passion, intimacy and commitment. The passion aspect of love is the desire for physical closeness. The intimacy aspect of love is the desire for emotional closeness. The commitment aspect is the shaping of the will to love no matter what.

passion: No. He sickens me. Part of it is knowing where he's been, another part is watching him pack on the pounds (30 so far) since he stopped the A.
intimacy: I would like this but I fear I will never achieve it with WH. He has never cared to support me, and I have reinforced all the walls I built prior to his A. I don't feel safe sharing intimate connections with him, because he doesn't take care of or value me.
commitment: This is the only one I've got, and while it used to be strong, I'm watching it tremble and break apart.


if at anytime you felt it that love that you feel when you want to be with that person or is the love of another human being the father of your kids....

Right now it's the second.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, September 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Soooo much going on on this Board- wow! I'm one of those that reads but can't keep up
ATS- Stay strong and true to yourself. The up and down in your sitch reminds me of my own.......
HS- So GOOD to see you here, and just being honest. You are what, three years out? You know the timeline is 2 to FIVE years----maybe it's just going to take longer for healing. But maybe, just maybe this is a good point for you to reinvest in yourself. I always remember what my IC told me about women who stay with a narcissist- if the H isn't looking out for your needs, then you *must* look out for your own if you are to be happy. I think that applies to us spouses of the LTA WS.

----QUESTION---- I need some input from you guys who "get it." You guys know I'm kind of the "third wheel" here- meaning- The FWH who had an LTA and then relapsed after three years and had 2 ONS and an internet EA...told me about the internet A, and then just 3 months ago fully disclosed all ot if [Did you keep up with all of that?]. Well, you all know any dday (even if the behavior is not recent i.e. my husband hasn't acted out in almost 18 monts) set you back to square one. So I've come out of the shock/numb phase and hit ANGER, and more ANGER. And I'm embarassed to admit that I, both in the past and now, have not done a good job of letting it out constructively. The result = a LOT of fighting in our household right now with my DDs asking me "not to divorce daddy." In my sitch, my H often puts his "foot in his mouth" saying dumb things while I'm already pissed, and then it just fuels my anger. Now, I know he's just in the beginning of his recovery in a 12 step program [he's not SA supposedly, but has ACA issues], and he has a LONG way to go with developing empathy and healthy behaviors. But, I can't seem to stop "engaging" with him--- and I get into a tailspin where I'm ready to do battle or war with him.

Tribe, what do YOU guys do with all the anger and how do you get it out without being physical or verablly abusive towards your spouses?
And do you have any ideas of things I can tell FWH to do to help deescalate me when I'm all fired up? He is trying- and he is very, very remorseful. I think he would do ANYTHING to help me heal- the thing is he just often does the WRONG thing, makes it worse and has NO clue what happened I'm not blaming him for my reactions--I know I need to get a grip on it. But I know that my anger is a normal emotion, just need help with releasing it in a healthy way.


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, September 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tribe, what do YOU guys do with all the anger and how do you get it out without being physical or verablly abusive towards your spouses?

Well, I wouldn't call it verbal abuse, but I've been known to have a few drunken rants that were extremely direct and blunt, yet honest.

In my better moments,however, I have found the following to be helpful:

1. Running. Preferably on the beach or somewhere relaxing/with a great view.
2. Any other kind of exercise, kickboxing is a favorite.
3. Imagining beating the crap out of OW without getting arrested.
4. Writing a letter/text to my H telling him exactly what I think and then not giving it to him.
5. Writing down some things myH has done right or said to me, so that I can remember he's not all bad when the anger phase hits.
6. Spending however much money I want on whatever knowing he will not question it.
7. On a more productive note, you could seriously think of whether you are still, despite all your H's faults better off with him than without him.

Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
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Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, September 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HB - All I can do is tell you that when I see myself or the situation getting out of control I HAVE to remove myself...physically. I will leave the room/house/phone and if needed I have been known to cut off my WH in mid-sentence and with gritting teeth have told him that I need to leave this conversation NOW! For someone that has only ever hung up the phone on someone maybe twice in her whole life, this took some cajones on my part. I said that I was ending the conversation and just hung up the phone.

Hope this helps.

Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
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