Hang in there. Better days ahead.
Man - this week was awful. I need a drink.
The venting here does help. Keep it up. I think that all of us wonder if the WS will think all is well if we act like we are o.k. They want so much for all this to go away that that I'm sure on some level they see more improvement in us than we feel. When you were young did you ever got caught doing something wrong? Remember just wanting to disappear until things got better. All WSs seem to hang onto that hope. Hang in there.
I hate to hear that your week was awful. Mine was not real good either. I think I will have that drink too. Thanks for the inspiration.
Thanks for the information. There are no cabanas here where I live. Wasn't there a song about that? "Yes, we have no cabanas." We do not have any gieshas here either. UKgirl would be proud of you with the fuckwit reference. I feel that I must point out you forgot one of hers. Remember fucktard?
Hugs to the tribe.
Had a little day alone and am feeling better. Watched sitcoms and cried, went to TJMaxx and bought a dress, some cute shoes and dishes, drank pinot grigio and ate pad khing, and watched 300.
Watercolor last night, dyeing silk scarves tonight, big ol' pig roast tomorrow, and then I'm sure I can keep myself occupied on Sunday. The weekend will be fine.
It will be fine. I will be fine. We will be fine. Hugs to the tribe.
Allgood, I’m sorry you are having a bad week. It seems like that always seems to happen like Murphey’s Law, “whatever bad will happen and at the worst possible moment” J
I think you and Nofun should just book Retrovaille and that’s it. It will do no harm, and even if it doesn’t help WH, it will help YOU.
It seems to me, from reading yours and Nofun’s posts that you are in the anger stage. Although I’m sure it’s driving you crazy with all the emotions, it is a healthy reaction. I need to get to that stage!!! It seems like it’s on the path for healing.
Tryn: My goal right now is trying to be independent emotionally from WS. It’s funny, Tryn, but in so many ways I am independent from WS in “physical things” such as taking care of all the household stuff (including the grilling J , yard work, fixing leaks in the bathroom, car problems , the kids’ problems etc, etc. ) BUT for me, I need to detach emotionally. For some reason, I have let my WH be my foundation, or at least the feeling that I was loved to be my foundation to keep going. I know I have to rely on ME. I’m working on that. As to relying on myself for financial independence, maybe I can get there. Don’t know. I am really giving up a lot. <sigh>
Miracle: Thank you for your post about “Radical Acceptance”. I started reading the book, and ended up giving up.
Miracle, you are giving your daughter a great gift by reading books that she likes so you can have “book discussions”. I have tried to do this with DS 15 who LOVES “Jurrassic Park” and we have discussed the differences between the book and the movie and the different scientific theories that are inherent in the concepts. He LOVES it. Same thing with DS 30. He was very involved with “DB Drag Racing” which was contests that determined which car had the LOUDEST sound system. DS would start to explain all the mathematical and scientific reasons why a particular amplifier and “box” would create the loudest decibles, which of course was all “greek” to me, but I tried to understand because I knew how passionate he was about it. It helped us be closer and DS started to talk to me about other subjects too, because he FELT I cared about him.
Dip:lol, about the cabana boys. Let me see if I can explain, even if it sounds naiive…… I went to a very “lady” like tea and coffee house with a very dear and wonderful friend. The clientele is all women. Now they have young and handsome waiters. I would NEVER make a pass at one of these young men who are younger than my older sons, BUT they are EYE CANDY!! It's nice to have a polite, handsome young man wait on yoiu and bring you tea or coffee!!
Ats, thank you for your posts. LOL, and I’m really kidding , but how did you become so wise??? And THANK you!!!! Your posts have really helped me. Thank you, also, to FNF. Lost, Njgal,UK gal, M3 and anyone else my foggy brain is forgetting for all your help.
I’m still having bad days. Still dealing with “reality” and it hurts. Love to you all.
[This message edited by honesttoafault at 11:13 PM, October 8th (Friday)]
Just a quick note to clarify what's going on with me:
I'm not really in the anger stage - if anything I'd say it's more like the plain of lethal flatness with spontaneous regression to the anger stage.
I don't cry often. I'm engaging more with people irl. I do think about the A a few times a day, but not as much as I used to. I am getting close to the point where I stop asking myself "why" and accept that it happened. Problem is - my opinion of my H is severely damaged. Even when I see him trying, I find myself faking it. I have been saying for a while now that I just don't have "those" feelings for him. And, I just don't. I would be a fool to think I wouldn't miss him if he were gone tho (even tho he wouldn't really be gone from my life at all with the kids & all).
I guess I do a lot of "is the grass greener" kind of thinking. I accepted a crappy marriage for a long time because I thought that was what it was supposed to be. (Not that I thought it was supposed to be "crappy" but I thought we were just raising our family and it wasn't about "our" needs anymore.) So, now my eyes are wide open & I see how wrong I was and I'm sorry to see that I may be missing out on that. (I realize the choice is mine in a number of ways.)
Anyway, as to Retro - I am frankly afraid to go for myself. Aside from the fact that I 100% believe it would be a waste of time for my H, I think the things I would say/do during the weekend would really affect my H negatively.
So, it's on the back burner for now.
Trust me, if I thought it was the time to do it, I would lay it out there.
Got to go.
so how can I trust that he won't do it again...because he says so?
I understand how you feel. I keep thinking that if he doesn't do it again we can make it. I have sort of come to a semblance of peace as regards this. I know that if he does I will hate him with a vengeance. I told him in early days when he begged to stay that if he did do it again I would do all I could to destroy him. Doesn't sound much like love does it? But then they say that love and hate are close emotions.
I suppose because he caused this awful pain and I agreed to try to R I know that if he strays again he will show conclusively that he really doesn't love me. That it is not just the loneliness and stupidity that he used for excuses over the last 16 yrs but total disregard for me. I am doing all I can to fix what I know I didn't deal with well during that period of our marriage. So if that is not enough ...and he strays again .... I will boot him out. So, I hope it will be easy for me if it happens. He cannot claim ignorance of consequences - he will prove by his betrayal that he really is the scumbag that I thought he was after dday but before I confronted him, Anyway - we'll see.
HUGS to all
You know when someone says something that specifically sticks in your head? Well, about 10 months from DDay I found out H had taken OW to Vegas on a convention and I flipped out. I told him to get out I was done. He gets defensive and he says..."DON'T DO THIS TO ME"
So how's that for not giving a shit about anyone but yourself? No wonder we are all fucked up in the head...we have H's that are fucktards!!!
Just to make you all laugh a little, (I have to find the humor in things or I'll go nuts)"the contractor" asked me if I wanted to go to his friend's honeymoon cabin in the woods. I can almost picture this place. It's on a beautiful horse farm nestled in the thick of the woods (I've seen pictures)(the friend does weddings at this farm). I got a glimpse how A's can start because the fantasy is tempting. BUT, I had enough smarts to tell this guy to back off. That NO word works wonders. And you know what I was thinking about as the conversation was unfolding? My children and my husband and the promises I made to them. So now I know that I wasn't even a thought in my H's pea brain when he had his A for all those years. He never thought about me or his kids or the promises he made. And that pisses me off.
If just makes it very difficult to move forward because I keep going back 12 years to try to analyse the why's and how's. I try to get into his head as to what were his feelings then and why would his feelings change now. If he didn't love me then, why would he love me now? And if I can't let this go, maybe I should move on without him. Maybe then I would have peace. But here's the sick thing....I worry about him because he is so broken. Why can't I just worry about me? I could throw up!!!!
f just makes it very difficult to move forward because I keep going back 12 years to try to analyse the why's and how's. I try to get into his head as to what were his feelings then and why would his feelings change now. If he didn't love me then, why would he love me now? And if I can't let this go, maybe I should move on without him. Maybe then I would have peace. But here's the sick thing....I worry about him because he is so broken. Why can't I just worry about me?
Ah, and that's the key, isn't it? We LOVED them and that's why the deceit hurts so bad. I've spent that morning looking at my old Christmas newsletters trying to piece together what was going on in our lives at the time the A started. I'm thinking of asking WH to make a timeline for me. I guess it's just another way to try and get him to realize how BIG this betrayal is. It was years in the making and it will take years to "get over it."
Has anyone else asked the WS to do a timeline? Did that help at all?
I'll never get that though!
Ask your H stongish...
Long story short: I married my H 18 years ago. He was my boyfriend since college. I was 19 when I met him, so we've been together almost 25 years now.
He is the love of my life, we had the happiest marriage ever. I felt bad for all the people we knew that had different types of problems. I felt very lucky and surely blessed. We have two teenage children. Our realtionship has always been very loving, we have friends, we socialize, travel, talk, share many interests, help each other....really perfect (for me). I felt I got this lucky because I suffered so much with my parent's awful marriage, that I chose the right person, and it was only fair.
From the moment we married, I did everything in my power to make him happy. I have very difficult in-laws and my H is an only child. I thought, well, it can't ALL be perfect. So I learnt to deal with them and eventually learnt to love them. My home is warm and welcoming. We are surrounded by a loving huge family on my side. I cook delicious meals every night for my H, in spite of the fact we have a cook. I have undergone a few plastic surgeries (boobs, tummy tuck) to stay beautiful for my H. I dress well all the time, wear makeup all the time, get a mani-pedi once a week....I left nothing unattended. My H is the most loved and admired H by me and all those that surround us. He is successful, fun, good looking, generous.....
So, I lived a dream life, with all the other everyday difficulties that come up, teenage kids, older/sick parents, etc. Until Sept. 19, 2009. That was the day my dream became the worst nightmare imaginable. My H was away on a business trip and I got a call from a woman saying "You don't know who I am, but I do know who you are, because I have been your H's lover for the last three years." All I can say is that I still have PSTD from that call which lasted about 40 mins (I think because of all the information she gave me but really I totally lost control of time). In the beginning I thought she had a wrong number, then I said to her "why should I believe you? You could be an angry employee, etc" (I didn't believe) but then she said she had a picture of my H in her daughter's B-DAY partyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!! And started giving me millions of details that ALL were true! Names of our friends, places, addressess....and the worst....DETAILS of our private lives!!!! I almost died when that woman started saying "I know your children's names, the school they go to, the plans you have for their future...WTF????? Where I go on vacation, and oh, BTW, you shouldn't leave your H alone so long....you have no idea who he is". All this time my head is spinning and the pain is blinding me and I say anyone can know those things, why should I believe you? She said to go meet her, I said NO WAY! What can I say? It was the worst moment in my life.
After that, my H called from an airport, I said don't ever come back to me!!!! I BEGGED you all my life to NEVER do this to meeeeeeeeee!!!! You traitor!!!! Go with your whore! I never want to see you again!!! I started banging on my piano! Really lost it...My kids were at my sister's house. I sent them over right after OW's phone call. I hung up on him and never picked the phone up again. What confirmed it all to me were his words "Honey, calm down, calm down please" I knew it was all true.....
He came home from the airport like at 4 am. I was still hoping he would say something like it was a ONS with an employee (who could know all that much about us through work, etc). But no, he said "It's true, we were going out for awhile but broke up over a year ago." Going out???? What do you mean going out????? In what planet? In what parallel universe did this happen??????? (Just remembering all of this gives me so much pain) He started explaining, she is a paid escort, I met her with so and so (my two best friend's H's, that the slut ha mentioned), at a party for men and paid escorts. I got trapped with her, couldn't get out. When I tried breaking it off a year ago, she began extortioning me. I gave her money, anything she wanted, to avoid this, but I can see it was no good. He cried, begged, pleaded......endlessly! I said listen if you love her, don't worry, I won't get in your way, I won't even humilliate you telling people, I don't care for money at all so don't worry about your money. Just go. I will never hurt my children, so I won't tell them either. You are free to do as you please. He cried and cried and begged and said he was SO sorry, he had made so many mistakes, please forgive him, he would make it up to me. Prove to me how much he loved me, make me the happiest woman one earth... I said I was the happiest woman on earth until that time, but that was over. I was destroyed. There was no way we could fix this broken me. I said, you knew it forever. My father has a mistress for 20 some years and that had made us all so unhappy. There was no way on earth I was going to go through that again or make my children go through that. Over my dead body.
He begged to stay and I said, you decide, I have no strength to fight, I don't care what you do, I need to get a grasp.
A year has gone by, and he has done absolutely everything in his hands to R. We had another bad day on Feb. 16 when OW called me again and said they were still together. She was frantic this time and I said, listen my H tells me you are a prostitute, you name isn't so and so, it is this other one, you don't live where you said you do, you live at so and so (very ugly and poor part of the city. She flipped. She went crazy yelling (my IC says that seeing how my H had told me all about her, drove her crazy). My H and I had another huge fight. He admitted had called her, returned her calls more like, because he was so afraid she would keep calling and telling me more hurtful details...he called he in front of me on loudspeaker and called her a liar, he said stop lying, I have not set eyes on you in months. I love my wife, leave us alone, etc. A fighting match between both. She said, oh, but you tell me you still think about me (the worst thing I could have heard). He said I am trying to forget you! I hate you! Let me live my life! Let me fix my M!
we went to MC and all my therapists believe him. They believe he is so afraid of this OW. Contacting me again, that he let her believe they could be friends. That has absolutely stopped. Or so I believe.
We are in R with good and bad days. Lots of trips, my H pleasing me in every possible way, making me very happy with constant words of love, regret and remorse. He punishes himself constantly and cries a lot. Goes to IC also and says this happened because of his bad relationship with his mother. Sorry, gotta go, my mom just came to visit. BTW NO one knows about this! I never told anyone!
has the best idea... just disconnecting and stopping all of this worry ,pain, hard work.
These WS take so much energy!
I am copyng and pasting what I posted on the 'BS Questions for WS 'forum today.
The problem is that the type of WS that will take the time and effort to respond or even be on SI is NOT at all like our WS who want to hide their heads in the sand and put it all behind us etc. etc.
So, I realize I am reaching out and trying to understand my husband but the WS on SI are different than he is, just by virtue of being willing to be on a support group site...
so,it's probably an exercise in futility.
Here's what I asked in the other forum:
My husband had a 5 yr LTA with a married co-worker.
The affair only ended because I discovered it.
My husband went NC with the OW right after d-day and has never broken it.
He has made major changes in himself. Got sober, went to AA, went to IC, we went to MC for 5 months early on.
We were seperated for 6 months post d-day then he moved back home.
That is the background.
I have been in IC since d-day.
Now....my question for the WS.
I still have questions for my husband about the affair, about his feelings about the marriage, then , now, etc. Questions about the OW..what he thought about her then, now etc.
And he refuses to discuss the affair ever again.
He has drawn a line in the sand.
I have asked him for years to go back to MC. He refuses.
Finding out about the LTA was the extremely traumatic for me.I definitely suffered PTSD type symptoms.
This Jan. will be 4 yrs since d-day.
The other day when I asked about MC again... he told me I was f....in crazy...
That I was destroying the marriage. That I was stuck. That I enjoyed being miserable..etc. etc.
am I crazy?
would you react this way also?
I do not ask him questions every day.. we have gone for weeks and months without me triggering. We have gone on trips together,we do things together.
But, I have this lingering sadness and uncertainty about R and that's what I think I want to verify.
I'm afraid that after all of this time and hard work that we may be at an impasse..
I told him yesterday that this is what irreconcilable differences look like.
I still have questions for my husband about the affair, about his feelings about the marriage, then , now, etc. Questions about the OW..what he thought about her then, now etc.
At only 4 months out I feel the same and your post made me wonder how I would feel if I was at your stage - ie 4yrs out and still had the same questions.
Usually when I ask questions he says "I don't remember" or "I don't know". However, sometimes he does give me some information but goes off on a tangent which has nothing to do with my question but at least gives me some info about the affairs. A few days ago I got some answers - even who OW1 (16 yrs ago) lived with (the NAME of this person and her job). Also that he visited her during the day when I was at work and late at night (when he finished at 11pm). He told me (at the time) that he stayed back and chatted to work friends. He said he went to see her and didn't stay long and that they didn't always have sex.
I was very shocked by some of the detail (name of flat mate, job, where she went and why, the fact that OW1 and her lived together again at a later date etc). He can remember details like this but not what they talked about or how he felt about her. Keeps saying "just friends" and he was lonely.
I'm thinking of buying a notebook or a diary (so he can look back over entries and see when/what he's written). Telling him that I will leave it on the dining table and that I want him to write something - anything - in it every day about the affairs. I will read it from time to time (perhaps I should als0 write my questions in it?) but that we will only discuss it and I will only ask questions about any entries ONCE each week. I will do this on the first of his two days off. (He hates having to go to work shortly after I have been "upset").
I think I will find this very hard eg if I read an entry on Sunday but he's not off work until Thursday. BUT at least he may give me some information and may feel less threatened if he can write while I am not around.
I may also ask him to write about how he is feeling at the time he is writing.
I just feel so shut out of this time (16yrs more than half of our married life) and need to feel that he is letting me in.
I'd love some feedback from anyone about this as I'm so sick of "I don't know" and "I can't remember". I believe these responses come from fear of hurting me and/or bringing on one of my rages (whi I really try to limit) rather than a need to "hide" it all from me.
I suppose I'm trying to find a way which is less threatening for him.
Please don't suggest IC or MC. In our samll country town there are very few and NONE I can find who have a good reputation. One even has a history of telling all BSs to leave - and has told clients this!!!
Anyway - I'd appreciate thoughts about this idea from anyone.
[This message edited by Laura28 at 6:01 PM, October 9th (Saturday)]