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User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 20
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, October 14th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FNF: It's so good to see you. No, WH called last night anyway and started talking about other things. As I was taking notes to post back to you, I had an AHA moment.
I've seen a lot of spouses and families argue and yell at one another and then be angry for a while and they seem to get over it. I could never understand that. If I argued with my mother EVERY WORD, nuance of a word, connotation of what I was saying, facial expression, tone of voice, body language was attacked and NEVER LET GO forever. I "paid" for any loss of control or anything I said that was not acceptable.

I think this is why I always avoided arguments. If I argued with WH or got mad, his response was to give me the silent treatment until I would end up apologizing when he was in the wrong.

Now, I don't care if he does that, and lo and behold, he acts as if nothing was said. He is used to dealing with people who just yell and scream and then doesn't focus on the details of the fight, whereas I did, like my mother trained me. EVERYTHING that was said in anger was important.
I was forgetting my own advice to my kids and students, that sometimes we say what we are feeling AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME ( like we want to break something or punch someone), but that is not really how we feel all the time. Many of us have written here that we want to get in the car and just drive away and keep going. But when we are calmer, we know that is not what we really want to do. We want to be with our kids, be at home, etc.

Strongish: thank you for your support. I thought I had replied to you in my never ending posts today, so this might be a repeat. :) It's so hard to see the WS doing all these stupid little things in an attempt to "make up" for what they did. It is really nice that WH is being thoughtful about getting you a latte or fixing things around the house, but they don't realize that this is something they should have been doing all along!! Now they want applause for these efforts and don't understand why we are not impressed.
But, I guess the best thing to do is to acknowledge their attempts, but to let them know that it is only a start. That you need to reconnect with one another.
As Miracle often says, "take the path of least regret" (now if only I can follow my own advice)

Ats: I'm glad you checked in. You have come so far in this process, I really admire you. You are much more in touch with your feelings and are such a compassionate person. I am glad to hear that you were able to really laugh with FWW.
I really believe you have come very far with your healing. I can also see that FWW is also working on her issues, which I am really happy to see.

....need improvement on depersonalizing and detaching with love when FWW shifts to black and white thinking and projects her feelings onto my actions.

Be careful, Ats. I truly understand what you are saying, but is this something you are willing to do always? This is something I need to do with my mother.
If all is well in other areas of your relationship with FWW and you are growing together and working it out together, and she is really making progress, I can see you doing this, it is just something to accept about her. BUT, if all those other issues and foo are not being dealt with, it' hard to keep doing this for your emotional health and well being. You are both in my prayers.

Miracle: You are such a wonderful mother. I really see that you are doing as much "damage control" as possible with your kids and their relationship with pfm.

No matter how much we try to shield our kids and make things right for them, we really can't.

The only thing I was able to do for older DS's was to keep reminding them that although their father may not show them love the way that they wanted, it didn't mean that he didn't love them with the best of his ability. DS 34 and 30 had a lot of issues with thier father and now have a decent relationship with him. They are not really close, but they realize that it's because of that's how their father is.....and finally after all these years, DS 34 FEELS that his father loves him.

Miracle, you can only do so much. Your kids are getting older, they can see how pfm is. Don't try to control what pfm does with them. You can suggest, yes, but it's still up to him. All you can do is talk with your kids and support them, but not putting thier father down (no matter how much he may deserve it)

Whether or not they have a good future relationship is up to pfm. As you have always suggested, you can plant seeds, but that is all.

I hope you can try to keep yourself happy and detach as much as you can from pfm, and not even allow yourself to get frustrated or angry with him. Don't allow him that power anymore.

If he says something stupid, just shake your head and don't focus on it. As you already know, you cannot change him.

You are a strong woman and an inspiration to all of us. You have reached out to us with your kindness, compassion and wisdom. I hope that sometimes we can help you, and not only with getting you "cabana boys and mudslides"!!!

Ok, that's what your WH should get you for your birthday, a spa day that includes mudslides and cabana boys!!!


I want to say hi also to all the newbies, and M3, NJgirl, and UKgal. Hope you guys are ok.


{{{{tribe}}}}

ETA: post to Strongish

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 11:58 AM, October 14th (Thursday)]


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, October 14th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest,
Talking to WH is like talking to a brick wall. Whilst banging my head against it. It does no good and hurts like hell. It's only when I pitch a fit and/or act like an asshole that I get any sort of kind/ caring response. (I am not one to pitch fits, nor to act all assholey. Doing so makes me uncomfortable because I know I'm doing it specifically to get his reaction, not because it's authentic. Miracle, you asked about that many weeks ago, so I thought I would throw that in.) Plus, his reaction is short-term band-aidy stuff and he reverts back to his own selfish baseline quickly. So! She says brightly. I wait and let MC translate my words into WHspeak. We have an appointment on Saturday, finally, so I will feel better soon.

In the meantime, in addition to yelling in the car, I wrote a letter to WH (which of course I will not give him) and feel much better.

honest, I hate how f-ing disrespectful your WH is to you. Just hate it. Hate hate hate. I hope you have found your power and are exercising it.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, October 14th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nofun: Belated HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

I'm reading and sending all of the tribe strength in their struggles. I am between 2 laptops - an HP & a Compaq... had to put the HP back to factory status so will have to re-install everything (time consuming to say the least, pain in the butt task but necessary for this former IT professional). I'm also conditioning (charge & discharge several times) 2 new laptop batteries that UPS delivered yesterday. Another frustration is that my ISP is moving to MS Live & one of my email IDs is not co-operating (the one I check the most, of course, as it's for my stitching hobbies) so one of my coping mechanisms is not available to me.

Yesterday was the anti-versary of FWH signing up for the email account to access the MSN gaming site that led to his online EA. Yes! my local ISP moving to MS Live is an annoying trigger! but I'm dealing with this pretty well, IMHO.
I'm trying to stay focussed on the task, not the irony of the situation.

Welcome newbies to the club nobody wants to join. I've been on SI since a week after D-day in Feb/07. SI helps one deal with the roller coaster ride of infidelity and hopefully we'll all arrive at the gate safely in one piece. This group has been a godsend in many ways... so much wisdom and support can be found here.

{{{LTA tribe}}}


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, October 14th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi lost, good to see you again. I'm sorry that you are triggering. We never know when it will come out, and lots of times it's things that we cannot anticipate. My WH had signed on to a few of those sites and I last year I came across email he sent out "fishing". They're about 6 years ago and I have no idea if anything ever came of it besides flirting. No way to confront since I wouled be giving away my source.

Hang in there and try to focus on the task at hand.

{{{Lost}}}

Nell, I hope the MC can help you. I hate what you are describing that your WH is doing. Just a quick fix and then reverting back to old behaviors. I don't want to throw tantrums either, it makes me uncomfortable and then WH is responding to the tantrum and not to me. I hope MC can help him see that much more needs to be done!!!

I hate how I've been disrepected also. With all the gaslighting and blameshifting that was done before I found SI, a great amount of damage was done. Gaslighting was going on for years, and I ended up doubting myself.

The saddest thing for me, is that WH's behavior was not moody during his A. Quite the opposite, in fact. He was sweet and charming and gave a great smoke screen. The last 2 years when OW was pregnant with OC#3 was when he was very moody and angry with me and the kids. But I thought it was because he was quitting smoking.

Now, if I "play the game" he is still sweet and nice, BUT the major difference is that WH no longer seems to care about hiding anything and just putting it in my face. Miracle put it very well, he gets upset that I am not letting him and it be.

Last night he tells me on the phone that nothing has changed. WTF? Sure, not for him.

I didn't even answer him. I have to go back to disengaging with him and really seeing the truth. I have started writing some things down to remind me of the reality of the situation so it can help motivate me to get moving again.

I was gaslighting myself.

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 2:01 PM, October 14th (Thursday)]


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, October 14th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my time is short so i will try to be..

strong:

Oh he'll tell you that he's "trying" but there is always some excuse.

yet another raising hand here to say "me too" or should i say "him (pfm) too"


Anyway, now all is sweetness and light. Falls over himself trying to do things for me and make me happy. What I want to know is how long this will last for? While the Hb is still very good, I can sense a slight lessening of the effort. Will be interesting to see if more changes occur in his general attentiveness and sex over next few months.

This is so true for me as well. WH goes to get me my latte in the morning and has been doing all the little, annoying repairs around the house that haven't been done for years. Like any of that is going to make for the fact that he had a GF for 4 years!

except for the sex i raise my hand on this one too...every once in a while i do see some changes in him going back to the man he was, i guess he cant change it all, even though all needed it....

the only thing that kept he and i together all these years aside from the love that i had for him was his sense of humor.....if it weren't for that, i would have left him years and years ago.....the fact that he was always able to laugh at himself when he fucked up...never at the rest of us....never at the rest of us.. ...how sad is that.....he was allowed to make mistakes, me and the kids...not...


nell:

Weird thing is, while he is not in the geographic area, I have a burning, tingling anger... I can feel it in my arms, you know? But when he's in front of me the anger subsides and I'm able to have a civil conversation with him and even give empathy for stress at his job. Then I get in my car and yell expletives at him all the way to and from work (30-minute commute) in between singing to CDs.

I'm like the worst movie you've ever seen. There's no telling what's going to happen next and nothing makes any sense.

you make perfect sense to me, maybe that because we both live in the same existance...post-affair syndrome...basically anything goes since everything as we knew it seems to be gone anyways...

i feel if you can find ways to cope that do not hurt anyone...why the hell not then?!?!?!?

and when he is around, you feel safe in what he is doing or not doing, when he is gone....what you no longer do not know hurts...


fnf:

but he will never ever find what he had and never knew he had....

Miracle - this is the saddest part to me - they have no clue how great it can be - what it is they could have, how absolutely beautiful life can be when we are truly connected to those who love us and who we love in return. A real pity IMHO.

me too!!

honest:

I've seen a lot of spouses and families argue and yell at one another and then be angry for a while and they seem to get over it. I could never understand that

this is a coping mechanism...i am raising my hand because i cannot just let things go either, although i am learning... ...for our ws's, letting it go means not having to face it, deal with it, acknowledge it, apologize for it...the freakin list is endless...but its all for basically the same reason....avoidance...and they do it well...hell isn't that part of this crazy cycle of infidelity..instead of dealing with what is needed the ws's chose to go elsewhere to meet whatever need was on the surface...


No matter how much we try to shield our kids and make things right for them, we really can't.

and this i am coming to accept, not easy, but i am stepping back, i offer advice on a unsteady basis so that i can step back...more along the lines of sink or swim...i cannot teach him how to be a parent, i cannot save my kids from knowing how inept he is....the only thing i can do is come here and to my ic and bitch about it now and then til i could completely let it go....and in the interim teach my kids how to rise above his parenting without stepping on his toes as a parent....damn i am so tired of walking these fine lines...i want to be able to dance through it all....so i think i might just try that.....i will lock myself in my room and pull a greys anatomy dance out...


nell:

let MC translate my words into WHspeak

this cracked me up...i also feel from time to time, alright all the time like we speak totally diff languages pfm and i.....

lostsoul: most of what you typed was so greek to me, i did get that your outlet is not available though.... .......

i am glad that you turned here....

i also got that you had a trigger....i wish we could get a trigger gun of sorts so we could shoot them down...

o.k. i am out of time, i started typing like 20 min ago at least....so much for being short...

[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 2:08 PM, October 14th (Thursday)]


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, October 14th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OMG!! Had to tell someone and you, Tribe, are the first ones that come to mind.

WH has done something I didn't think he would ever do unless I guilted him or badgered him into it. He told his boss about his A!! Why is this such a big deal?? Well, I'll tell you....

I've told WH that I feel like his job(s) have always come before me and his family. And the one boss of his is someone that he practically worships! He really thinks that this guy's sh** smells like rose petals. So for WH to let his guard down and "confess" his failings to this boss is HUGE in my book. And he did it without my asking/demanding him to do it! I feel like I've been given a gift of my WH's humility.

The phone call before this one, I asked WH for a timeline. I told him that I had thought a lot about it and that I think it will help with some of my obsessing. I keep trying to pin down what we/I was doing when, etc. and I'm hoping that this will put this into perspective. Plus, I'm hoping that WH will see in black and white how long he was betraying me. Has anyone done this? Does it help?


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, October 14th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle: It's the hardest thing to do, but you need to let go of trying to control how pfm deals with the kids. Of course, I'm not talking about blatent abuse, but the way he deals with the kids in general....

I know I mentioned this in my other post, but I would like to ask you this:
Do you believe that pfm loves the kids to the best of his ability? It doesn't matter if he's doing the best things, just does he love them?

If this is the case, that is all you need to remind your kids. This is not to excuse his behavior, but for the kids, to FEEL that Dad loves them. KWIM?

This knowledge has helped me in dealing with my own FOO issues. Trying to understand my father (he has passed away) and things that went on in his life helped me to forgive a lot of his behavior. He didn't do the things he did to hurt me, in fact he was really hurting himself. Luckily I was able to do this before he died. The forgiveness was for BOTH of us.

I truly understand that you don't want your kids to have to go through this emotional turmoil in their lives, but you can just help them with tools to cope and your love and support.

{{{Miracle}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, October 14th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i got 5 min..

strong: big YAY, for him telling his boss....


if i had an honest timeline it would have helped me tremendously...i asked, insofar i got 3 or 4 (i really lost track) all of them contain omissions and blatent lies..


honest: i know hon, i know....and i already do the "you know daddy love you bit".....and i am stepping back....doesn't mean it doesn't bother me when i see his fuck ups though, kwim.....i am trying to let go of that too....a kind of roll your eyes..

gotta go


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, October 14th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all


honest

I think this is why I always avoided arguments. If I argued with WH or got mad, his response was to give me the silent treatment until I would end up apologizing when he was in the wrong.

Just a little anecdote.

In the past (pre dday) when I said or did anything H didn't like, he would cut me off in a quiet manipulative sort of way. Never confrontational and always deniable but I knew that was what he was doing. Eg he'd suddenly have an important job to do on the farm, have to go to town or have someone to phone.

Last night we were in bed and he was giving me a very nice back rub. I couldn't help thinking about how often he'd called me 'beautiful' or 'sweetheart' in the last few days. I have told him repeatedly that I hate these as he used them so much with OW3. (I heard on VAR but told him heard on recording made by PI- who doesn't exist! - to protect my source!)

Anyway without warninng I said "I hate it when you call me 'sweetheart' or 'beautiful' - it makes me feel like one of your whores". I was being deliberately confrontational and offensive by using the word 'whores'to see how he would react. He said he was sorry and didn't realise he was dong it and about 30 secs later turned over and said he was going to sleep.

Interesting!!!! He has never said anything but I am sure he hates me calling them his 'whores' and the mean part of me likes to use the term when I can as a way of making him face what he did.

I am going to watch carefully for any other resurgences of this kind of manipulation to ensure he doesn't go back to this old and very MEAN way of putting me in my place. Will call him on it if he does.

miracle

the only thing that kept he and i together all these years aside from the love that i had for him was his sense of humor

This resonated with me. I have a great sense of humour with OTHER people but basically lost it over the years with H. However, he can really make me laugh when he wants to and I enjoy this side of him. Since dday he seems to go out of his way to do this - to "make me happy" and it's one very endearing part of his personality - this charm also probably what made him attractive to his whores.

strongish

WH has done something I didn't think he would ever do unless I guilted him or badgered him into it. He told his boss about his A!!

I can FEEL your joy and hope in these words. So happy for you. This is such a BIG step in your R.

Have to get ready for work now.

((((((TRIBE)))))))


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 6:36 PM, October 14th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

strongish,
our MC told WH to do a timeline and WH worked on it for days (it was incredibly depressing how long he worked on it). The first day (with things he did leading up to the beginning of PA) was the first (and one of the only) real remorse I've seen from him. He said he had forgotten a lot of the stuff he did behind my back to let OW know he was available to cheat on his wife. Up until then it was all her aggressiveness and he was just being a normal work buddy. Oopsie. Not so much. For that self-awareness ALONE I would recommend your WH do a timeline.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 7:13 PM, October 14th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nell, that's kind of what I'm hoping for WH to see for himself. I want him to look at the many, many things that happened during that time and think about how for years he lied to me over and over.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 5:59 AM, October 15th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I married the flatmate from hell. WW now locks bedroom door 24 /7. I can only enter while under supervision to get my clothes etc. WTF just happened. All she needs to do now is push the self destruct button.Just another thing to raise in IC this week.lol


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, October 15th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

deeppurple:

if i may ask, why does she get the bedroom????....she betrayed you, why does she get to lock you out????

where do you sleep???...



i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, October 15th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf: i didn't have time yesterday to check out the link to the song...so i checked it out today....i started to laugh, not a good laugh but quite the snarky laugh....when i first started to date pfm he told me that that song was his song that he had for his own dad.....that apple didn't fall far from that tree now did it...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 9:26 AM, October 15th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

strongish,
Of course, that remorse only lasted as long as he was typing it. As soon as it was over, he put it nicely back in the box and used two rolls of packing tape to seal it up again. Now he wants to know if I'm ready to move forward, seeing as how he's done a few days of answering my specific questions with hard data using as few words as possible.

Miracle,
I think you understand me better than I understand myself. You're on to something with the "what I don't know might kill me" thing. There's also some FOO issues with me... we are not an emotive people. My dad did not get mad, he mediated. My mom did not get mad, she stewed and stuffed. I am on a fine line between stuffing and controlling and completely losing my sh!t.

deeppurple,
Uh...??? (Let me explain. No, there is too much. Let me sum up.) So if I have your story straight, your wife had an A, got pregnant with OM's baby (or fetus if you'd rather), stopped the A for some reason that you do not know though you have made assumptions based on other evidence. Aborted the OC, is going through guilt/withdrawl/grief over losing the OM/OC. She has withdrawn from you. MEANWHILE. You discovered her A when you found the positive pregnancy test and knew for whatever reason that it wasn't yours. I assume you confronted her. You still love her. You want to be a full-time Daddy to your children. You are co-habitating and are married but are not acting as husband and wife. Your WW is locking you out, both literally and figuratively, which must rip your guts out every single day.

Right? Wow. Just wow. I don't know how you stand it. How long can you possibly survive with your sanity in tact while living this way? I ask because living under these conditions seems so... soul-sucking. I don't have anything to offer you, other than hugs.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, October 15th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nell: its more along the lines of i am you....we all are the same in so many ways....and in dealing with this crap...for the most part, its all predictable, we all handle much of this shit the same way....a few differences here and there, but way more the same....

boy another quiet day...good for those who can't keep up....it gives me the worries though...almost too quiet...


(((tribe))) i hope you are all doing fun stuff...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, October 15th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

deep purple: I am so sorry you are going through this. In your profile it says that your WW wants to live her own life but won't leave the marriage.

If you both are agreeing to co-habit to co-parent for the kids, some ground rules must be brought up.

Perhaps you could make a list of your boundaries, ie, no OP's while you are co-habiting, respect for one another, etc. Maybe WW and you can go to a MC session or a priest/minister to help you set these up.

I would also see a lawyer to see what your options are.

I know what pain you are in and how hard this must be for you because you love your DD's so much. Right now, try the 180. Not as a selfish thing, but do not let WW be the focus of your life. You and your daughters need to be. You will take the high road... for your daughters. You will be kind and respectful to WW and YOURSELF. Kindness in the respect that you would be to an aquaintance, just not mean.

Keep posting.

Miracle: yes, it has been quiet here lately. I hope that is a good thing.

Nell: It's so hard when WS think a little effort and it's finished. I don't think they really want to deal with it all. Just magical thinking and it will all go away.

Laura: I was thinking about your post and how you say that WH can be quietly manipulative.

My WH always did that. He would get mad or upset and I'd get the silent treatment. For days sometimes. This is one of the things we were able to talk about and resolve. WH told me that he can get very angry and upset, so he wants to walk away before he says something he'll regret. Even my DS 30 told me that it is best for him to walk away until he is calm and then redress the situation.
WH and I have done this a few times lately....telling each other that let's stop for a while and calm down and then talk later.

This has worked.

What didn't work, and WH finally realized it, that ok, one is angry and wants to walk away to calm down....but then stays silent and doesn't try to resolve the issue IS WRONG and does not work.

I had also told WH that although I understood his need to calm down, if he was going to give me the silent treatment for more than a few hours or even days, without telling me what is wrong, I was going to ignore him. I was not a mind reader.
After 22 years of living this way, he's stopped!!

Look, I know we are not in R, but we still need to communicate, and this was helpful.

Sorry for the rambling. Don't know if I made any sense.

Ats, check in!!!


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, October 15th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

Long Post. BIG event for me.

Miracle – I think the seeds are finally beginning to germinate!!!

Had something of a breakthrough last night.

H and I were just lying in bed cuddling and talking about the day and I started to cry. He wanted to know what he had said or done wrong. I told him nothing but that I was wondering how often he did this – cuddled and talked with OWs. He started by responding “I don’t know – don’t remember” and I cried even more. He then said what’s wrong and I said I can’t stand all the not knowing. He stopped and really thought and then said, ”Not often I usually went to see them when I finished at night (11pm). Sometimes we just sat and talked or went straight to bed and then I left. Didn’t stay long.“ (I believe this as I would have been too suspicious if he was constantly very late home. Often he’d be ½-3/4 hour late and say he had to stay back to finish a job or was talking to workmates).

I then asked about day times and he said when he visited it was usually not long and they didn’t always go to bed. I then asked about lying together and cuddling and he said only twice that he remembered with OW3 – when they went to beach and just lay on sand together and talked.

I was very careful not to respond and just let him talk – trying not to break the spell. He then began to ramble about how he was going to finish with OW3. Said she had become more demanding – wanting him to visit all the time. He had started making excuses. Then she started to get very bitchy and told him one day “You don’t have the balls to leave your wife.” (I believe this as he never uses the expression “balls”). Said he had told her repeatedly that he really liked her but was never going to leave me and the kids. I asked how many times he had been with her since she moved to the farm. He said not sure maybe 10 or 12. (This was over a 4 month period just before dday. I was astounded as I had imagined he was with her at least 2 or 3 times a week – this is actually an average of once per week). I said this and he said sometimes was not with her for 2 or 3 weeks and then 2 or 3 times in 1 week ).
I then asked “Did you ever have arguments/fights?” and he said no. I said “So of course you realise she was on her best behaviour because she wanted you’ and he said “I never really thought of that. I just liked being with her. But towards the end I realised she wasn’t the person I thought she was”. (God she must have ego stroked!!!!! )

I asked about him “loving her’. He said he only said it because she did and he didn’t really think he had been in love with any of them. Really LIKED OW3 – liked being with her but wasn’t really in love. Just felt sorry for OW2 (had depression and had bad marriage – he was with her EA for 3 yrs and PA for 5 yrs. Both he and she told me they got together a lot in first few months (2 or 3 times per week) but after that about 8-10 times per yr. (I believe this cause of other things she told me). Sick bitch also told me what a great lover he was!!!

Told me OW1 only lasted for a few months. Think I believe this from my knowledge of her personal timeline. (She wasn’t in town long – moved 500kms away.)

Again said only did it cause he was lonely. But then said not making any excuse – nothing excuses what I did. Then talked about will be forever faithful, make me happy, never do it again – no matter what etc etc etc.

Told him how much I needed him to talk about it. How it dominates my thoughts all day every day. How much it helped hearing him talk about them. Then he said – “Yes I think about it all day too - what a terrible thing I’ve done to you and how I’ve broken your heart and destroyed your life.. All I want to do is try to make it up to you. I’m trying so hard to help you get better.”

I then asked him to tell me how it started with OW3 and he told me that they had been friends at work. He had listened to her talk about problems in her marriage and that when she left her H she had given him Ph no and said call and come visit. He did. Nothing happened first couple of times. Then one night he went to visit and she was drunk and invited him to bed and he went. Clearly that's what he wanted all along - but I bit my tongue and refrained from pointing this out to him!!!

He told me lots of other little things and I really think I believe all he has said. He has told me a few things in the past couple of months and these tally with what he told me last night. I’m sure there are lots he’s leaving out but I really think this is a good start. I think he will now tell me more. I just need to be careful to pick my times and be very gentle. It’s important to me because it happened over so long a period and there were 3 OWs. I think my imagination is probably worse than the reality. For some reason I can deal with the reality better than my imagination!!

Anyway, I felt so much better after this talk. Hope it is a good sign. I even wondered if I needed to continue with my tech toys but am going to convince myself to do so. I do NOT want to find out he’s strayed again in 5 yrs time and I was blind because I stopped checking. I am determined to keep checking for my own peace of mind. He had a break of several yrs (I think) between OW1 and OW2 so there’s no saying he won’t again.

Miracle
Thanks so much for your “seeds” advice. I really think it helped me get this far. I have been so patient and it has paid off. I hope the seeds continue to grow. I will work on making him comfortable talking about OWs and respond as though he is talking about the weather. I know I need to make his talk non-threatening so he will continue. My biggest fear now is that I will find out about other OWs. Wouldn’t surprise me but pray I have the courage to deal calmly with them if I do.

Bless you and all in LTA on SI – you have helped me so much.

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, October 15th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

laura: as sick as this is about to sound...if he does confide you in about other ow's....this would be really really good for several reasons....(i did say this sounds sick, right)

1. he is confiding in you, trusting you with his worst truths (this is the biggest gift he can give you (remember these sound sick)

2. if there are others, he is finally showing you that he can be truthful, a biggie, it means he is capable of telling truth

3. it means that the other ow's mean even less....no matter how long it would seem his affairs lasted, he was in it for a purpose and the purpose was never because he loved them, but to stroke his huge ego.....

4. it means that he is ready to move forward doing whatever it takes, and if you say this is what it takes...he is stepping up to the plate

( did i emphasize how sick this all sounds)

never in a million years would i have ever thought the man you love telling you about his ow would be a good thing....damn, either i am growing up and "seeing" more in this crazy existance we call life or i am just out of my fucking mind...


and laura i so admire your courage in letting him talk without getting all crazed when i know you really wanted to get all crazed even if just for a moment because what he was telling you hurt more then you could imagine....and it felt freeing too....getting those pieces of the puzzle.....so kudos to you laura....standing and applauding your continued patience....especially with your overflowing plate....

i pray he becomes the partner in life he should have been all along, especially now....you deserve a "true" partner...


honest i was struck by some of the simliarities between you and deeppurple....as different as your sich are is also how similar....

(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, October 15th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OMG Laura, I thought I was reading exactly what my H told me about the OW...their relationship, sex, wow. There are a lot of similarities. I cried reading your post, it brought back those "talks."

How it dominates my thoughts all day every day. How much it helped hearing him talk about them. Then he said – “Yes I think about it all day too - what a terrible thing I’ve done to you and how I’ve broken your heart and destroyed your life.. All I want to do is try to make it up to you. I’m trying so hard to help you get better.”

This was what he has said to me also, numerous times!!

Hugs to the tribe....I'm on the run AGAIN!!


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
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