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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 20
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, September 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf

Thanks so much for weighing in. I'm so sorry about your twin.

That facebook friend MUST go!! That for me would be a deal breaker.

It's a dealbreaker for me too, fnf. It is my hope that he just doesn't understand why/how important this is.

This is my new draft. Let the criticism begin!

Half of my heart is a shotgun wedding to a bride with a paper ring; and half of my heart is the part of me that never truly loved anything.

You’ve asked what you can do for me.

You could un-friend XHSGF on FB.

I will not be married to a man who feels a need to have a close personal relationship with another woman; who hides secrets from me, flirts with other women and has sexual relationships or sexually charged friendships with them.

These are all things you’ve done in the past.

Your determination to hold on in some small way to that past seems to be more important than my feelings. I can’t feel comfortable having a truly intimate relationship with you when your actions seem to indicate that your need for validation from others is stronger than any sense of loyalty, respect, or love you may feel for me.

The truth is, when you put your emotional and sexual energy into another person, it siphons off energy that rightfully belongs to your marriage. That is one thing you did by sending flirty e-mails to XHSGF, by texting her dozens of times a day for months on end, and by having an A with OW.

As long as I see you stubbornly clinging to any tiniest vestige of any past relationship, I continue to believe that it is only a matter of time before you once again choose to turn your attention elsewhere. I deserve to be married to a man who places all of his emotional and sexual energy into his marriage with me.

I deserve respect, loyalty, and more than half of your heart – all of it. If you will not give me those things, I can never heal from this terrible hurt while I’m with you because every day is yet another wound.

I will not feel like you’re capable of giving me a real marriage: a permanent, exclusive, intimate and faithful commitment, while you still have any old flames on your back burner. I don’t understand why not having any sort of contact with XHSGF is such a problem for you; but I understand that your sustained unwillingness to remove her from your life in every way is a huge problem for me.

You could also see your IC more often. I see beneficial changes in you and your attitude and mood every time you see him, and when you're happier, I'm happier.

You could make a consistent effort to treat yourself well, to eat well and to exercise. When you are healthier, you are happier, and when you are happier, I am happier, as are our children.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, September 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf: cross posting...

do you have a plan for your emotional needs now?...and can you verbalize what those needs are?....

and why are you angry? are you really angry or are you feeling alone...or both?...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, September 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No criticism from me M33 - I think this is a perfect letter - non-threatening, honest and necessary.
Are you planning to ask your H to write something to you as well or do you want to just answer his question to you, What he can do for you?


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, September 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3 i think its too wordy and too condeming the way it is worded.....try to keep it short and simple....especially if emotionally he is 3, you have kids, how much can they listen to and actually take in and comprehend....

you want the list or boundaries to be simply stated....if there is discussion the rest can be spoken about....but the list should be clear, concise and simple....something he can refer too, or hang in his closet so he can see it everyday....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, September 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ugh. I started thinking "why is this so HARD" and then I answered my own question -- it's so hard because I'm trying to communicate with someone who is clueless. Ok.

How about this one:

You asked what you can do for me.
(1) You could remove XHSGF from your FB friends list.
(2) You could see your IC more often.
(3) You could make a consistent effort to treat yourself well, to eat well and to exercise.
(4) You could tell me whether you genuinely meant it when you said (at the beach) that our marriage has always been shitty for you.

Anyone like/dislike that one?


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, September 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

do you have a plan for your emotional needs now?...and can you verbalize what those needs are?....

and why are you angry? are you really angry or are you feeling alone...or both?...


Thank you Miracle for asking these questions. I've been avoiding coming on here because I have been so down lately and didn't want to discourage anyone but I am feeling somewhat lost lately. I miss my sister so much and although I knew she was my one major source of emotional connection, I guess I never realized how dependent I was on her for this to the point of accepting so much less from my H and being perfectly ok with that for years.
Our situations are so different if you think about it - you were an only child and I had an identical twin, who I shared my life with from the time of conception. She knew me so intimately, we were so connected, it wasn't something that either of us had to even communicate verbally. We just understand and accepted each other totally and sometimes words were completely unnecessary - just a look or a touch or a smile and we understood.
I told my H once in C'ing after d-day that he could never understand that kind of connection and I actually felt sorry for him because anything less than what my sister and I shared just didn't come close.
God, I'm writing this and feeling like I had an emotional A with my sister, and my H never was going to be able to compete.

I think the major thing that comes from a truly satisfying emotional connection with someone is the absolute sense of safety and the belief in that person's willingness and ability to always be your greatest supporter, one who always is there for you, who could NEVER hurt you, who would want to kill someone who ever hurt you (you know the way we parents feel when someone hurts one of our children).
One of the things my sister used to say to me after d-day was that if she ever found out that my H cheated on me again she was afraid of what she would do. She was so emotional and felt my pain as deeply as if it were her own.
When I cry with my H he has this pathetic look on his face and although I know he feels terrible about the pain he has caused me I also know that on some level he truly doesn't get it, doesn't feel it in the way perhaps a twin can feel for the other.
A twin really is the ultimate soulmate and no one can come close to this, no one else can know you so intimately.
Well, I've avoided posting this for a few weeks because it was so hurtful but you did ask and so I will tell you why I've been so angry lately.
Several weeks ago after sex I felt a little discomfort and began wondering if my H was fooling around again. I asked him and told him that if my symptoms continued I was going to see my gyno to get STD testing. Fortunately the symptoms disappeared.)
My H's response was, "I don't have any interest in that anymore. In fact, the only reason I still have sex with you is because I have to.
Now, understand this because this is what I mean about not being connected to someone, HE HAD NO IDEA HOW PAINFUL THIS STATEMENT WAS!
Do I need to go on???
I have been so hurt by this and his response was, "You always take things the wrong way" to which I said, "I take your words at face value, how else can I take them?"
So, it's not only that he said this awful thing to me but that he was so clueless as to how hurtful they were. After all we've been through, how could he not know that this would only trigger in me the absolute worst memories of all those years his LTA communicated to me that he only had sex with me "because he had to" in order for me not to get suspicious that he was getting fucked elsewhere.
So that's it in a nutshell.
I think this is why I am missing my sister so much right now. She would have been there for me, comforting me, helping me work through this latest insult and giving me the love I need at this time.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, September 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3:

i took tryn's list and revamped a bit...let me know what you think...


what you can do for me is to honor my boundaries which are as follows:

1) I will not be reconiciled to a man that needs to have any personal relationship with another woman… What that means is any personal conversation, texting, writing, hidden secrets, flirting, helping solve problems…

2) I will only reconcile to a man where someone wants me in a physical way

3) I will only reconcile to a man willing to admit he needs counselling and actively participates in said counselling for both yourself and with and for me..

4) I will only reconcile to a man who values good health, which means being in good physical shape

5) I will only reconcile to a man who can feel safe enough with me enough to allow me to have complete and all access to all aspects of his life.. Monetary, social network sites, bill details..

6) i will only reconcile to a man who speaks with total honesty and transparency...



i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, September 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf: thankyou so much for sharing..i know how hard it was to put in writing...

o.k. now i will tread lightly here...is it possible that he has lost all interest in sex period for totally different reasons then the ones you are internalizing...sometimes some people just lose it, usually if they are emotionally challenged it will show in other ways as opposed to outwardly....and fnf you gotta know this is an issue for lots of men at his age, women too....first thing first is he needs a full physical....find out where his hormones are, after that i would venture a little ic/mc both are in order...because he shouldn't be ok with this...i really don't believe its because he doesn't love you, and please dont take this wrong but i don't think love has anything to do with it...no one should be ok with this....he sounds like he is clinically depressed.....he could love you with every ounce of his being for all you know....get it checked out....i think if you were not suffering the aftermath of infidelity youwould have or might have reacted differently.....

gotta go, my little charge is pulling me away....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, September 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all and thank you for the good wishes. It has been a productive morning. I had a Dr appt anyway, so I called into let my office know I would be home for the morning. I meditated this morning, especially after reading Tryn's post:

Friends? of course your wife, partner of years and years is your best friend. You live togather, you share, you have kids, partner in financial, on and on.. This makes a friendship..

I realized he was right. I also realized that it was time. There is no good reason that I am holding on to what FWW and OM did. If it truly mattered anymore, I would be leaving. So as they said in the "Lion King", I decided to put my past in my behind. I suspect that I will back-slide and have bad days still, but this new "mature" me is ready to move forward.

After getting DS off to school and my meditation, I went back to bed where FWW curled up against me. We spent a nice hour just lounging. After we got up and had some coffee (me) and tea (her), I told her that all is forgiven, and that it is my intent to leave it behind. I cautioned her that I will likely still have struggles with triggers, and asked her to please be patient with me. I also told her that I had thought about it, and that she is my friend, as well as my wife that I love. I told her I also believe that I am her friend, her best friend, whether she realizes it just now or not. Friends can disagree on things, and friends can fight, but that from now on I intend to relate to her as a friend as well as my beloved wife. She seemed happy with our discussion. She shared with me the absolute panic she felt after dday fearing that I would leave her or throw her out of the house. She remembers being shocked by her response after years of thinking she was leaving me.

We also talked about the sex last night. She said that she wanted to demonstrate to me that she was vulnerable, and that she trusted me. She also said that it was very erotic for her after we started. She enjoyed feeling under my control; she enjoyed the force and submission. I too found it very erotic and sexually charged. There was no sense of losing control, but I did enjoy very much her submission my dominance. As an added bonus, I am very sure that none of the OM ever did anything with her as the things we did last night.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, September 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That is spectacular, ATS!

It is a nice feeling to put your past in your behind.

I know I did a lot of MC by myself the last 3 years before Dday, but I've loved my WH dearly, and one thing that I realized right away is that the only thing different about my M would be maybe the A would stop and my M would get better -- since the A was almost always there. Sigh.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, September 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats:


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, September 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

pm's sent to
allgood
honest
fnf
njgal
m3
fun


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, September 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((forgivenotforget))

m334455,

(4) You could tell me whether you genuinely meant it when you said (at the beach) that our marriage has always been shitty for you.

Suggested change: (4) You could tell me what you meant when you said (at the beach) that our marriage has always been shitty for you.

The intent of the change is to prevent a simple yes or no answer. If he felt this, why? What is or can he doing to feel better? If he did not feel this, why would he say such a thing?

(3) You could make a consistent effort to treat yourself well, to eat well and to exercise.

Suggested change: (3) You could make a consistent efforts to lower your blood pressure and your bmi to healthy levels, and to restore the muscle tone I loved when you were working out.

Speaking for myself, but I think this is a gender-wide trait, guys like lists. I would love FWW to give me a list of what she needs to be happy (mine for her is short). If he wants to R, a list gives him goals. It allows him to focus his effort.

Is changing diet and working out, going to the gym something the two of you can work on together?


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, September 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just want to give up. I keep thinking "where is the fine line between pride and self-respect?" Am I already crossing it if I ask him, yet again, to get rid of XHSGF? Have I crossed it already?


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, September 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just dropping in quick to say Happy Birthday to Ats.

M3, I have to really read your posts, I want to help in any way I can. {{{{M3}}}}

I just can't focus yesterday and today.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{tribe}}}}}}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 3:57 PM, September 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

HAPPY BIRTHDAY ATS.

1. Saw OW3 at my husband's workplace last night. She wouldn't make eye contact with me.
Tech toys tell me NC but I HATE that he has to work with her. Told him this and he was reassuring. Think he's genuine. Hope so.

2. OW3 sold her property and is moving back into town. Will be closer to us

3. OW3 is going back to UK for holiday in 5 weeks time. Will be nice to know she's 6000kms away for a while
Hope she gets hit by a bus over there

fnf

I miss my sister so much and although I knew she was my one major source of emotional connection, I guess I never realized how dependent I was on her

I'm so sorry for your loss.


the absolute worst memories of all those years his LTA communicated to me that he only had sex with me "because he had to" in order for me not to get suspicious that he was getting fucked elsewhere.

This was the case for me too. For last 8+ yrs (OW2) sex was very ordinary. I didn't like it but thought he's getting older and just not so into it any more. Now I know there was another reson. Another way the OWs STOLE from me

m33

Sorry I can't advise re your demands. Keep thinking about the same sort of stuff for me and my H but my head is so woolly lately I just can't organise my thoughts. At present just going with the flow and surviving from day to day. It's all I'm capable of.

Have a good day/evening /night all

HUGS
Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, September 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

where is the fine line between pride and self-respect

Not a day goes by that I don't think this. Especially with all the infidelity in the media & in almost every case it's "kick him to the curb". Makes me feel weak.

Anyhoo-
M3: for whatever reason - you want to give him another shot, so do it. Who cares? What do you have to lose? I thought the longer version of the list was great because I thought your explanations were on spot & concise as well. But, I understand the appeal of the shorter version as well.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 4:00 PM, September 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Duplicate Post.
Also - FNF - I'm so sorry...

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 4:02 PM, September 16th (Thursday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 8:27 PM, September 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ffn- I agree with IWAM. I think especially with men as they get older sometimes they have physical reasons for losing interest in sex. It's also possible he could be depressed---causing a loss of interest in sex. I understand totally why it triggered you, but in a way I think it was *his* way of telling you ..its not YOU--it's "him"....KWIM?

ATS- Happy Bday and thanks for your perspective on the boards---

(((Tribe))) The last time I wrote this very, very long post and then I went to post it and ...poof. It disappeared. And then I didn't have enough energy to re-do it.

So, I am SERIOUSLY wondering what is going on..... OW2 from 4/09 who never had anything more than online contact with my H AGAIN just contacted him via email to an email addy H can't get rid of b/c it's related to his professional license. He didn't talk to her for a year, then she emails back in June. He ignores her... and then THIS! Telling him she's "officially divorced" and can he "talk now"? WTF???? I know she's a broken and pathetic person, but I was just starting to heal from H's disclosures of the other infidelities that he unleashed on me two months ago... and now *this*. He told me about the email immediately and said "i'm not going to contact her." Guess that's good, but geez it seems like I can't catch a break.

M3- Hey I wanted to tell you that my husband had some issues with not giving me his FB password and fighting to keep his account. Of course, now I have everything and he's transparent and all that. But it took him some time in his IC to get to this point. For him it wasn't him screwing around on the FB, it was about CONTROL. Maybe your H has control issues too mixed in there?

Hugs
HB


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 9:50 PM, September 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ATS - Happy birthday buddy - I was 50 in July - its just another day in the journey.

Thanks for your posts as they provide much insight & hope.

& thanks to everyone else on this thread - burden is much lighter when shared. Thank you


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
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