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User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 20
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 6:06 PM, October 15th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura....I am so glad that you were able to talk with your WH and put some of the mind movies to rest. I know that a part of you is very relieved. Hopefully this will be the start of more talks between the two of you. Don't get discouraged if every day does not end up like this though. As fellow-SI'ers have said, this is a process. You take a few steps forward and one or two back.

But for today....I'm so happy for you.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 6:18 PM, October 15th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Yes I think about it all day too - what a terrible thing I've done to you and how I've broken your heart and destroyed your life.. All I want to do is try to make it up to you. I'm trying so hard to help you get better."

Laura, what a wonderful gift to hear these words. I know it doesn't take away the pain, but it's a start, at least the intention is there.

You did a wonderful job just to listen and make WH feel safe. Hopefully, these talks will help heal both of you and help you on your way to R and to build a better marriage.

Nothing much here. WH called yesterday, asking for some paperwork. He heard that I was still sick as a dog with my bronchitis (going back to dr tomorrow) Was feeling very sorry for myself because I have been sick for so long. Crazy as this sounds, I thanked him for being there whenever I was sick (he really was) and he said I didn't have to thank him, I was there for him too.

Why did I do this? I was starting to make some closure in my mind and heart. Crazy way, I know, but somehow I didn't want to start just thinking of the good things and drive myself crazy. I'm trying to be realistic about everything. I'm starting to resign myself, it still hurts like hell.

{{{{{{tribe}}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 7:53 PM, October 15th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((honest)))

Hang in there. Your WH is completely horrible, otherwise you wouldn't have married him in the first place. The thing to remember is that even if he were the nicest guy in the world...he doesn't make you his #1 priority... and that's something that you deserve. You deserve better than a part-time H.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:20 PM, October 15th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

strongish: I did think he was the nicest guy in the world and kept up that appearance for a very long time TO ME. I saw what was happening in business, heard his side of the story with arguments with his family and others, but I bought into that.

I don't want to be painting WH all good or bad, although his actions and decisions have been horrible and selfish.

You are absolutely right, I am NOT his #1 priority.

As for having a part time H? It seems like I've always had one, even with xWH who was never home, either working or playing softball.

I do deserve better, much better. I have to keep remembering what my DS 34 said, that there is nothing wrong with me except I made 2 poor choices when it came to H's.

I put up with too much, overcompromised myself just to be treated like this.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 9:23 PM, October 15th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do deserve better, much better. I have to keep remembering what my DS 34 said, that there is nothing wrong with me except I made 2 poor choices when it came to H's.

Tell yourself this every day. Print it out onto a piece of paper and tape it to your bathroom mirror so that you see it every day. Accept nothing less than someone who makes you the #1 thing in their life.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 1:06 AM, October 16th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

Thanks for your words of encouragement re last night's revelations

miracle

never in a million years would i have ever thought the man you love telling you about his ow would be a good thing....damn, either i am growing up and "seeing" more in this crazy existance we call life or i am just out of my fucking mind...

YES "just out of my fucking mind" and we are always like this. Comes with the territory of being a BS.

Oh YESSSSSS. It is sick.

It makes me sick to think that his discussing OWs makes me feel better. I was dying inside while he talked but knew - from your advice- that if I wanted him to keep going I had to stay calm.

And your list - yes it's all true. I agree 100%. I seriously doubt he will admit to others whether they exist or not. Sad part is that if he doesn't I will always think he is holding back - if he does I will have to endure more hurt. LOSE LOSE situation. Why do we BSs always have to lose!!!!!!

and laura i so admire your courage

No I am not courageous. Today was not fun. He had "chores" to do outside. Didn't finish unit 1pm and had to leave for work at 2pm. Has phoned me twice since he arrived at work - think he realises he stuffed up. I don't see him much during week - he's home most days and works evenings so can do his "chores" anytime. Now weekend comes. WE are both home in morning and he has not time for me!!!! WTF.

Started on Merlot way too early today. Would you believe that I used to be lucky to have a dozen drinks a year. Now 2 a night is minimum. I know it's not good but it does numb the pain and loneliness when he is at work. No OWs working tonight (according to him) and I believe because have checked this most nights since dday.

No fun

My world as I know it was shattered on June 7, 2009


I get a little spooked by the similarities in our situations. This was not my Dday but day I confronted H about OW3. Didn't know about OW 1 and 2 at this time. Found out via VAR a couple of weeks later.

LTA 12 years.

Yes I think we have a connection except mine was 3 OWs over 16 yrs. SIGH


Honest

Laura, what a wonderful gift to hear these words. I know it doesn't take away the pain, but it's a start, at least the intention is there.

Yes the intention is there but I know he is such a weak person. Always knew he was weak but didn't expect betrayal. Don't know if he's strong enough to see me through this. He says he is but only time will tell. Hope he gets some "balls" - not the one's OW3 wanted

I never give you advice because I don't know what to say. All I can say is I wish you peace whatever you do. Today or next week. Just hope you can find peace each day.

Strongish

What is the biggest barrier to R for you? Reading your profile I see that h broke off with OW? Do you think there were others or is it just you finding it difficult to forgive.

Sometimes I think if this was the end - if he stayed NC and never found another whore I would be able to "get over it". Other times I think that it doesn't matter what he does I will never be OK. Does this make sense??

I think it would to you miracle. You seem to be saying that even though FWH is truly remorseful you can never forgive and completely R. Sometimes I think I will become you. I just can't get past the 16yrs bit. Sometimes I hope that when we (if we) have been married for 32+ yrs I'll at least be able to say it was for LESS than half our married life not MORE than half as it is now.

Where is ats??? I am worried. We are in trouble but he is in crisis!!!

Please ats - get in touch.

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 1:17 AM, October 16th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

Started another post because I was afraid I would loose the previous one.

Miracle

I DO want to be you in one way but not in another. I want to R with my H - I want to be happy!!!! but if I can't I want to become the wise den mother who knows where she's at and who uses her wisdom to help others.

If it doesn't work and I come to believe I can't forgive him I wILL become you - so you can retire and go play with those cabana boys

I so wish we were in the same time zone. I would love to know that you are online.


You deserve MANY cabana boys for your service to those on SI.

I pray you will find them or they will come looking for you!!! Or maybe you will find a nice retired cabana boy who will put all his efforts into making you happy for the rest of your life.

HUGS

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 5:55 AM, October 16th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Morning all.

Just wanted to check in - I've been reading about everyone's sitch (I do care & worry about you all), just haven't had much to add - and I see Miracle has pretty much got it covered.

Ats -check in and where is M3? (Are you lurking M3? Hmmm....? )

Anyway - this sucks! Laura - can anyone get over this? I don't believe so - I think some can find a way to see the good and accept the rest and find a way to be happy.

What I think is important is whatyou learn about your spouse and your marriage after discovering the affair. For those whose spouses showed not just a temporary lapse of judgment/sanity, but a day in and day out decision to betray, lie, disrespect, etc. it's harder to come to the conclusion that our spouses are worthy of our love and trust. I know some WS have had like an epiphany and have turned themselves around and the BS can move on successfully. I think short of that - it's hard to reconcile that just because someone is caught & faced with what they should have already known - that their A was jeopardizing their marriage- that they are now a committed, honest person.

So, aside from the disgust I feel when I think about everything they did together, both physically and emotionally, it's more the unsettled feeling I have about how he could continue to do that, what kind of person he is, that makes me think I'm married to a stranger and there will be no letting my guard down.

For me, I see how hard it is to be a single parent. I think if I chose to separate I would just be replacing a different kind of stress for the one I would feel now. So, I prefer to to R, even if I don't know 100% if my H is in it for the right reasons. I suppose I will have to try to give it more effort than I have been currently exerting otherwise I will be the one to blame for this failing.
Busy day for me - g2g- I wish you all well.

ETA: I know they are not just waking up one day and are a committed person, etc. that it's supposed to be possible following a lot of self-reflection, IC, etc. But, as most of you know, I have the WS that is winging it his own way.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 5:59 AM, October 16th (Saturday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 7:22 AM, October 16th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Would you believe that I used to be lucky to have a dozen drinks a year. Now 2 a night is minimum.

This has been me for the last year. I am now trying to NOT do this everynight. The last 2 weeks I've tried to limit it to one drink if we go out to dinner and last week I only had one glass of wine during the week. The drinking was starting to scare me. Just be careful.

Where is ats and M3?


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, October 16th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What is the biggest barrier to R for you? Reading your profile I see that h broke off with OW? Do you think there were others or is it just you finding it difficult to forgive.

Sometimes I think if this was the end - if he stayed NC and never found another whore I would be able to "get over it". Other times I think that it doesn't matter what he does I will never be OK. Does this make sense??

Laura, you asked what the biggest obstable to R is for me. I'm still trying to narrow that down. Some days I think I should just put this all behind me and accept the changes that he is making, small though they are, and recognize that this is now my life. Other days I wonder how I could ever accept the way WH has treated me and our family. AllGood actually articulated it better than I could...

What I think is important is whatyou learn about your spouse and your marriage after discovering the affair. For those whose spouses showed not just a temporary lapse of judgment/sanity, but a day in and day out decision to betray, lie, disrespect, etc. it's harder to come to the conclusion that our spouses are worthy of our love and trust. I know some WS have had like an epiphany and have turned themselves around and the BS can move on successfully. I think short of that - it's hard to reconcile that just because someone is caught & faced with what they should have already known - that their A was jeopardizing their marriage- that they are now a committed, honest person.

My WH's 4 year A was not a momentary lapse injudgement. He actively chose to deceive me every day while the A was ongoing and then for another year afterward. The only reason he is seeing someone for C is because he was found out. He didn't end the A and ask me to see a MC with him as he was unhappy in our M. No, he made the unilateral decision that our M was broken and thus he was free to find someone else to meet his "needs." He conveniently "forgot" that during that time I contacted and made arrangements for us to see a MC as we both agreed that things weren't going well with us. But then he never told the MC that he had a GF on the side....surprise, surprise, the MC was not helpful.

I've started a list of a few points I want to make with WH when he returns from his latest business trip. I want to try and communicate to him my feeling that he risked our family's happiness for his own selfish purpose. Instead of being a protector of his children, he allowed a stranger, a woman who from the outset proved that she was unethical by sleeping with a man she knew was married, the power to destroy the beautiful family that we have worked so hard for. He is fairly cavalier about the possibility of our children finding out about his A and that scares me.

Like most WS my H says that he never thought that I would find out. Then he says that he's been surprised at my severe reaction. But why would anyone even take that risk?? If your family is the most important thing in your life, why would you even come close to the kind of situation that could result in the destruction of that family?? Much less take that risk over and over again. It's too easy to say that "I just didn't think." We don't accept that excuse from our children, why should we accept it from our spouse.

So, that's where I'm at today. Like the rest of you I feel like I'm in a lose/lose situation. This sucks.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 6:12 PM, October 16th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jumping in and out because I just had to share. We had MC, the first in about a month. I was VERY calm the whole time and WH was great at first, but then he launched into defensiveness. MC had to point out that I did NOT say something negative that WH insisted I meant even though I didn't say it. MC said that I probably knew what I wanted and that perhaps WH should listen to ME instead of deciding for himself. And then WH kept insisting that he was innocent and I was completely at fault because I did not do XYZ (about something unrelated to the A, by the way... it was something that happened 12 years ago) which is what I should have done. So WH talked over MC by repeating that same point loudly every time MC tried to finish his thought... and MC finally said, "I don't know why I'm feeling so frustrated." To which I replied, "Because he is not listening." And WH didn't hear it! It was classic WH. I'm so glad MC saw that. (Not that he hadn't before... just not to that level.) It's utterly ridiculous. So our homework is to practice listening. And the next session is WH alone again, because they're going to do some more work on WH's broken parts. (This is for me, as WH doesn't see the value for himself in figuring himself out yet. Whatever. Whoever he thinks this is for, if he figures out his problems it'll help him.)

I left shaking my head but WH is going to be working the rest of the day, so I don't have to worry about him. La dee da dee doo.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 9:11 PM, October 16th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nell...after two combined sessions our MC asked to see us separately. It has been like that for the past several months now. She tells me that WH has "a lot of work to do" but maybe she tells him the same thing about me. Who knows?

Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 5:53 AM, October 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lol - just saw the picture of Dr. Phil as a pirate in the margin- I'm glad I got a chuckle.

Earlier in the week I tried to point out to my H that we hadn't spent any real time with each other - there were reasons for that - but my point was there are always those reasons and I feel that's how we got to be "roomates" to begin with -1 week turned into 2 weeks, etc. I also told him that I was feeling discouraged because while we've increase our phone contact throughout the day, it was still very business like.
He basically disagreed and said he would return to MC if that's what I wanted.
In that conversation I told him that I saw the weekend being the same with him working all weekend and us preparing for a party that was held yesterday, etc.
He disagreed.
So, Friday night I was busy cleaning the house while he was busy watching the Yankees. Fine. I was very annoyed as this left me with holding a 2year old while cleaning, but said nothing.
During the party, there were numerous times I noticed how we had really nothing to do with each other. There was no apparent interest in being near each other, etc. I made a few efforts to go near him, but I felt ignored. Now, pre-A, we really didn't engage like this and this would have been a non-issue. We would spend time at social events talking to others or me running after the kids. After the party I tried to point this out to my H to no avail. He basically thought I could've made an effort to spend time with him and didn't - that I knew where he was, etc. I tried to point out that the larger issue is that he is seemingly unaware of this, unconcerned about it and uninterested in spending time with me and that that's what people in a relationship are supposed to do. I really got no response - literally, he was in bed with the covers over his head and when I called him out on that he said we weren't having a conversation I was just complaining/nagging. I went over the whole, we are supposed to be working on this relationship and I don't see us doing what's necessary, etc. and now I'm not supposed to express any opinion that is negative, etc. and he said it was the tone of my voice. (WHich - I was pissed off for other reasons when I attempted this conversation and it was reflected in my voice.)
So, I just said that I wanted more for my life. He left this morning givng me a quick peck, but without uttering a word.
I really feel like there is no passion and I obviously doubt that he has the fortitude to stay faithful in a relationship lacking passion - I mean this was his complaint/his reason for the A - that we had a dead marriage and weren't getting along.
I'm seriously thinking of doing the 180.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, October 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ImNellNow - When H and I first started MC (upon my insistance) he thought it was a waste of time. He would tell me that he didn't need MC, that it was for me because I was the one that was having a hard time. I ended up stopping MC because I felt annoyed and frustrated everytime I left there. MC told me that if H would come to see him alone, he could help him. So again, upon my insistance H has been going faithfully ALONE! I have finally seen some small improvements. And last session he told me that he actually feels better going to IC and that he would like to continue.

I thought I was going to have a stroke because my H is the type that has always insisted that couselors were quacks!! I still have a problem with H not listening to me. I can be talking and he will be looking right at me and 2 days later he has no recollection of the conversation. So I've been calling him on it and if it's something that is important to me, I start out by saying.."are you listening to me?" It's so so frustrating! It's like living with a 59 year old baby. Give it more time. If your H really wants to stay in the M, he will eventually step up to the plate. Unfortunately it's a long process and sometimes very discouraging.

Allgood - I don't know if I'm going to make any sense because I'm not that great at putting my words in writing but your H sometimes seems to be related to mine. If at this point I did the 180, we'd be done.

What seemed to work a bit better (and this has been the last 2 weeks)was I stopped mentioning the A or the OW. I totally stopped and started acting kinder towards him. It is so hard for me to do because I am still so angry but I have seen a slight improvement. If your H is like mine, the minute I mention what I need from him, he does the opposite. He doesn't want to be told what to do or how to do it. Your H knows what is needed, just like mine. I'm not expecting miracles, but I do want to be treated like I matter.

The improvements I've seen are terribly small but none the less they are improvements.

Now, after I wrote all those positives, I just bought a keylogger because there are things on his computer that are concerning me. Grrrrr....porn, adultfriendfinder, etc. Does it ever end?


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, October 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood,
It sounds like you could use attention, and I guess you'll have to give it to yourself as your WH refuses to give it to you (at least of late). So a modified 180 might not be a bad idea for a bit. At least give yourself a break from staring at the back of his head and take some time to focus on you.

strongish,
I doubt they're talking about your problems (although you probably know your MC's stand on infidelity vs. pre-A marriage issues from the first two meetings). If your MC is anything like mine, he's spending half the time just trying to get WH to shut up and listen.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:08 AM, October 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First off, I could seriously watch the costumes change on Dr. Phil ALL DAY!
I do not know why I find this so entertaining, but I do.

Fun, I'm glad you are seeing some improvements with your H - that he likes going to IC is just great! Sux about the stuff you are finding on the computer. I hope it turns out to be nothing.

O - and you will love this - I was just so done this morning -or 85% done- but I decided to text my H about what happened last night & the short version is that he knew I was mad (and picks the least significant thing I was mad about to remember) but says he guesses he must have been too drunk/sleepy when we were talking last night to remember the rest of the conversation. The rest of the conversation is just not worth repeating. And, I get your point about not mentioning the A. In fact, I haven't mentioned the A in 2 weeks. I seriously think he just shuts down any time there is any conversation about how to improve things with us - like we should just let it happen without discussing it.

Nell - good point. I'm going to focus on me (to the extent possible with 4 small kids.)

And I found the following quote on a link posted on another thread about immature men:

However, the evolution and maturation of a male involves growing to a phase where a man thinks beyond dominance, grandiosity and patriarchy; a man who thinks outside of himself and his own desires. Thus, the next phase would be that of service and purpose. In other words, the man has a clearly defined purpose in life that includes making a difference in the world giving and serving rather than simply taking and amassing.

Where can I find one of these mature men?


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, October 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood:

i believe you both need to go to mc like yesterday hon.....you need to learn how to communicate with each other, to be able to express what you each need from each other without coming off sarcastic, naggy, uninterested, or anything else that the 2 of you seem to portray to the other....

now why didn't you hand him the baby when you were cleaning and TELL him you needed help.....in his pea brain i'm thinkin he is telling himself that he is staying out of your way that you have it all under control....some men are like that you know....that could very well be a man thing since i see it freakin everywhere....

now to be fair: you and he are hosting this shindig...right....that means you don't spend time together socializing together, there is too much to do, and hopefully he was doing as much as he was socializing......and when there are small kids involved allgood the socializing changes to accomodate this...usually its one parent tending to the kiddies...more often then not its the mom...the is just the way it is....

you need to speak up when things are happening and TELL the man what you NEED from him.....and give him choices...hold the baby or vacuum....kind of thing...STOP being super woman....STOP doing it all yourself...you said you don't want to be a single parent, well then take advantage of that now.....tell him what you need when you need it....if he wants to perceive that as nagging then so be it, but complaining to him after the fact does not help you....he needs to be SHOWN everything he can and could be doing for YOU.....and the only way to accomplish this is to speak up before and during....kind of like catching a puppy doing bad, after the fact its out of the mind....not that your husband has the mental capacity of a dog, its just the concept that after the fact its useless and percieved out of context....

and i also think your husband needs to spend one day in your shoes, cleaning, doing homework, mommy chauffeur and getting a hot dinner on the table.....all with taking care of every kids needs.....so arrange it...tell him its little experiment so he could experience what it is to be you.....just in chores and kids....and he should do this on a regular basis, at least once a month to get in touch with reality of what it is to have 4 kids, work and take care of a house....


honest:

Crazy as this sounds, I thanked him for being there whenever I was sick (he really was) and he said I didn't have to thank him, I was there for him too.

Why did I do this? I was starting to make some closure in my mind and heart. Crazy way, I know, but somehow I didn't want to start just thinking of the good things and drive myself crazy. I'm trying to be realistic about everything. I'm starting to resign myself, it still hurts like

yes it does sound crazy honest, this is not detaching, this is torturing yourself for what purpose...

you know he has a good side, trying to bring this out is not going to help you detach......trying to see the good in him right now is not going to help you detach.....

i know you need to see the value in the relationship, but all the value that it HAD is gone with exception to those 2 great kids.....

there was value, there was love, there was alot of good.....and it is over now....what you believed to be - is no longer, what you believed to be - was...it was for you, but no longer is...


detach detach detach.....and you need i think to use some tools to get you there...how is that list coming....get angry dear heart, get good and angry...it is so overdue...and i know you have some anger, you know you have some anger...let it rise up.....and use it to your advantage, it will help you detach....it will also help you move forward instead being stuck in this void, this big black hole....

start thinking about all the things he has done and said....get fucking angry...go back over the many posts that we tribe peeps get angry for you....this man is one who incites most of us, so why not you, why are you afraid of your anger towards this man....what do you fear here......because i cannot believe that you have none...or that is little in size....what this man has done and said to you is abominable....and if you were reading what he has done and said to you about another, i know you would be angry for her...so why not yourself...you deserve better then what he has dished out, you do believe that part don't you..and if you can't do it for you, how about your boys, look at what this whole thing has done to them, and continues to do to them....

get mad, detach...do what you have to do to accomplish this...


laura:

so can do his "chores" anytime. Now weekend comes. WE are both home in morning and he has not time for me!!!!

maybe after opening up to you he needs a little "me" time to put himself in perspective...kind of like the man cave, but no cave, just to be able to unwind from it all, this man obviously loves you very much and it could not have been easy to open himself up the way he did....cut him a little slack on this one and don't take it personally...step back and let him unwind from it the way he see's fit, as long as the way he see's fit is acceptable and getting shit done around the house i would think is more then acceptable....and then see what happens next....so hold your judgement....wait and see how he continues...

you are courageous, with all that you have gone through and continue to go through...woman accept the compliment, you have an amazing strength within you....


You seem to be saying that even though FWH is truly remorseful you can never forgive and completely R.

not at all, my ws is completely remorseful...but he is not doing all that i require.....i had put dealbreakers in place...he decided and chose not to honor those requirements....and even though i am not going to reconcile i still plan on forgiving him for what he's done, forgiveness is for me, not for him, not to let him off the hook but for me to move on.....

i think once i am physically separated, no longer living in the same house it will be much easier for me to come to forgiveness....first though i am still working on total acceptance....i need to accept what is before i can forgive and i need to completely detach as well....if i were reconciling then it would be a different scenario as for the acceptance and forgiveness....that is where his part would be helpful, where he could and would be able to help me acheive that, but since we are not reconciling and worse he is incapable of helping me heal in any way i am on my own without being on my own....he is always there....in my face, in my house, in my bedroom....right now more then anything i would love him gone...but that would not serve my purpose with my kids....

yesterday there was a little thing between pfm and dd....and he came to me with it, and i shut him up and shut him out...i detached myself from the sich...told him he was on his own...this was not a life altering thing, this was him trying to be a dad...not my job to teach him, not my job to make this easier for him or even my dd....i need to step back and let him sink or swim and if that means my dd has to suffer the consequnces...then so be it...i cannot save her from him, i cannot save the relationship for them...i am finally accepting this in small steps, but steps...more and more i am stepping back.....so yay me...

but anyways....i do want to eventually forgive...FOR ME....right now i don't give a rats ass for him, but FOR ME...


strong:

He is fairly cavalier about the possibility of our children finding out about his A and that scares me.

in what way is he being cavalier?

Like most WS my H says that he never thought that I would find out. Then he says that he's been surprised at my severe reaction. But why would anyone even take that risk?? If your family is the most important thing in your life, why would you even come close to the kind of situation that could result in the destruction of that family?? Much less take that risk over and over again. It's too easy to say that "I just didn't think." We don't accept that excuse from our children, why should we accept it from our spouse.

this is easy, because they truly believed that they would not be found out, all of our ws's exept for honest's ws.....none of them wanted to be found out and truly believed that they would not be, they all had huge ego's that helped them believe that they were "invincable" in this respect...after all look at how long they DID get away with it.....its ludicrous when you think about it, but seriously look at how long they did get away with it...so of course this fed the already exploded ego that needed, craved the boost.....and sometimes part of the excitement is the danger aspect, it makes it more exciting, but yet the ego feels that, hell i got away with it for this long i will continue to do so....and all of them want their marriages to continue, even honest ws wants his marriage to continue....and this is where the separation comes into play....does the ws want it enough to do what it takes...does the ws show consistently that (s)he is sorry for the past behavior and is actively trying to better him/herself and to repair the marriage????


nell:

.

So WH talked over MC by repeating that same point loudly every time MC tried to finish his thought... and MC finally said, "I don't know why I'm feeling so frustrated." To which I replied, "Because he is not listening." And WH didn't hear it! It was classic WH. I'm so glad MC saw that. (Not that he hadn't before... just not to that level.) It's utterly ridiculous.

this is not good, your mc needs to get control of the sich, and get control of the appt.....allowing your husband to run it is not a good sign....i would seriously think about getting another....as much as you want the mc to "see" it all, you want the mc to speak up when (s)he sees it and put an immediate stop to it...another words be able to call "bullshit"...

fnf has a great story, where are you fnf, tell your story about "8 fucking years" at the mc....


allgood: dr phil will contantly change "costumes" til halloween is over...so keep lookin, some of them are hilarious...


(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, October 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle - as for the super woman thing - I did give him the baby when I was cleaning. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on your perspective, by daughter is no dummy & she doesn't want to be with him. So she screams like a maniac for however long it takes for me to come back. And, with my H's response being remaining on the couch while calling her name, I seriously couldn't take it anymore.
And, as my H and I don't have the same days off he has had the experience of being primary caregiver on those days that I'm working and he's home. He just doesn't do it like I do it - so less stress. But, he does get the basics done, I must admit.
As far as mc goes - I just need to find the time.
I know I've made changes in trying to talk to him about how I feel instead of just keeping it inside and walking around all pissed off. That he doesn't have the ability to respond appropriately to what I need or to tell me what he needs, I just don't get it.
And - I understand what you mean about the party situation - but there were opportunities, they just weren't taken. I saw other happy couples talking to each other & sort of gravitating to each other at some point in the eve - not so with us.

ETA: I'm going to go have some leftover birthday cake now.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 9:23 AM, October 17th (Sunday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:26 AM, October 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood: you never had this relationship before....and now you want it....so do what it takes to get it....get thee to an mc asap....make time, find time.....its important...and remember a happy mommy and a happy daddy make happy kids and just make happy period...

do what it takes, your husband is inept at making this happen, even though i really believe he wants it too....yes it sucks that you have to be the one, but that is just how it is...



i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, October 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood.

I am sure there are many mature men out there. I cannot tell you just where to find them. I only know where one is. He is usually pretty mature acting, except when he is being a crazy old fart.

You women are sometimes hard to figure out. You all want a mature man, but then start talking about cabana boys. I guess I need to ponder this puzzle for the next few days.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


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