Your WH just doesn't know how to face the work he needs to do, even though you have told him time and time again what needs to be done. He's just hoping it will all go away. Let's just act like nothing has happened and all will be right with the world.
The only thing I can suggest for now, besides Retrovaille, is that you and he work on how to make things better right now....WH taking a more active role with the kids, spending more time with the family, ways to communicate better with you, etc.
At least while you are there together, things can be easier. Maybe fake it till you make it for a while?
ETA to add Happy Birthday "Manchild"!!!
[This message edited by honesttoafault at 4:21 PM, October 21st (Thursday)]
Well you have already heard that you should not worry about what you said. Sometimes we say things that when examined with 20-20 hindsight look wrong. We were all tricked and fooled by our WS. You did not give them permission to have the A.
One of my favorate bands is Steely Dan. Since it was said that you look 19, now whenever I hear their song, "Hey 19" I will always think of you.
You had a birthday several days ago, so belated happy B-day. Mine was just a few days prior to yours. I guess we are both Libras. I understand your feelings about the OW. Some of us do not seem to be very good about about forgiving the OP.
Allgood, miracle, honest, nofun.
Now about that cabana boy stuff. Since you all think I have this misunderstanding about cabana boys maybe you all should explain, in great detail just what the duties of a good cabana boy are. Inquiring minds want to know.
Thanks for the Baby Paddy update. I was wondering about her.
Do you think your H is depressed or just in the WS mode of biding his time and hoping all of this goes away. I think they are all in a one day at a time program. If they can just get the BS through another day then everybody is one day farther away from the A.
While you were absent I tried to throw in a fucktard and fuckwit in a post. I hope you don't mind.
Out of time so Hugs to the tribe.
Cabana boys....ahhh cabana boys.....Tall, dark, young and handsome!!! God forgive me!!!!
Fucktard? Fuckwit? = FWH??
Like Nofun I will NEVER forgive OWs (X3). Not going to waste any emotional energy.
Besides isn't forgiveness dependent on remorse??
Like others I am Catholic - currently teach in a Catholic school - have done for 32 yrs.
Believed in the sanctity and committment of marriage vows. (interestingly my H is not Catholic)
No I will not forgive OWs.
Hope to forgive H. Need to because my long term plan is to stay with him - need to forgive for ME not him. I think!
Some great posts today. Sorry I can't respond better. In classroom at lunch. Have work to do.
Take care all
cabana boy: a man(not really a boy, cradle robbing is not a pretty sport, he needs to be just old enough to be considered a man and quite legal, while being young enough to be in perfect working condition), beautiful body and face, must be a talented man in all ways to make a woman happy, many times over!!!
forgiveness of the op: never ever considered it....as much as this person sinned against me, as allgood stated, the op's did not betray me, my husband did that, and when he took his vows at the alter in the catholic church he stumbled over the words, to be specific the vows promising to be faithful...he actually stuttered when he said them....thats because he knew he had no intention of honoring them....and in fact was quite active already in being unfaithful.....and he is catholic....pfm is not a good catholic nor a good chrisitian or even a good man.......
forgiveness is not dependent upon remorse unless the person is seeking it......i believe that there are several types or ways to forgive someone.....and i think it mostly about letting it go, acceptance of what is and what was....and then being able to move forward and leaving it behind...not letting it take over, not seeking revenge, being able to let it go and let it be....
acknowledge, accept, move on.......and when you do this you take your power back, reclaim your life and they do not win, they do not take up any more space in your mind and in your heart....for while you let anyone take up space in your heart that is toxic, there is no room for those who are filled with love....
it does not mean that the people who have offended get off or are exonerated, it means that they no longer have power in your life...
and i will never give my power away again....even though i am not there yet, it is a goal....a very active goal....
letting go of the anger for me is a tough one....it does not help that pfm is constantly doing things that incite that anger....nor does it help that he is here.....but the day will come where he not here anymore and the day will come where i will have achieved indifference....the latter is beginning to happen....i am learning to keep most of my anger in check and channel it in other directions....
still the anger part is the toughest noodle....so much so i decided that for my birthday i want a taser gun....i want to zap so many people, including of course pfm, manchild, even dd lately....whenever i get aggravated i want to zap them....
bwhahhahahahahbwahahahah (very evil laugh)
Miracle: You with a taser gun... I'm scared...
But I still agree with everything I wrote yesterday.
Tribe, thank you all for responding to me yesterday. My emotions were all verskuttled and I led myself into "losing it" land. I think my in-laws' visit is affecting me more than I thought it would.
I am giving the M time. But WH is doing exactly nothing with the time, so it is just the sound of tick tick tick. We are not okay and WH is not willing to do anything except pretend that we are okay. It's frustrating.
dip: WH does battle mild depression; every MC we've been to has asked him about this. But he refuses treatment (medication), so I really don't see the benefit of knowing. There's also a deep desire to "move forward" without looking back. Because it's more convenient for him to ignore the destruction all around us.
So, today is yet another waiting day. Waiting for WH to do SOMETHING. And making sure that I stay centered so I don't veer into dangerous territory the way I did yesterday.
On forgiveness. It is not my job to forgive OW. I leave that to God. She may earn redemption for herself but I have no desire to know whether that happens or not. None of my business. I do pray for her son, though; that he grows up to be a healthy adult despite all the very bad lessons about people and relationships that his mother is spoon-feeding him.
It seems as if there are no other men posting here lately. Are men banned from here? I guess I did not get the memo. Or did you just send the memo to the smart men?
Thank you. Did you know that us Libras are the only one with a sign that is a inaninate object. It kind of makes us special. When you hear "hey 19" I suppose you are thinking of a 19 yr old cabana boy.
Thanks. I did read your cabana boy explaination from a few days ago. Another Catholic and a teacher too. Seems to be many of you all here. Do not grade my spelling and grammer please.
I guess I qualify on some of your points to be a cabana boy. I am legal and a man. Talented and experienced enough to make a woman happy many times over. I am afraid I would have to change beautiful body and face, to something like fit, handsome and distinguished looking. Sounds like I might best be described as a cabana old boy.
Thank you. She made me a cake. She does that every year. She got me a card too. I had something else in mind but that did not work out. I remember one B-day several years ago when the only card I got was from my insurance agent. I should have taken her out to dinner. I agree with you about the taser and miracle. Scary....
It is nice to see that you are more centered today. Those off centered days suck. It is too bad that your H does not want to be treated for his problem. I am facing the same thing at my house.
Hugs to the tribe.
We are not okay and WH is not willing to do anything except pretend that we are okay
Add me to this list too.
Tho,I have to admit that I have seen some signs of improvement, it's still so frustrating when I feel he should have been doing back flips fromthe get go instead of this tug of war we continue to have.
Actually -that describes my experience perfectly: a tug of war. Minimal changes in either direction & taking too long - an endurance contest for sure.
And, to be honest, I haven't been making big changes either. It's sort of a vicious cycle as I don't want to make the big changes unless I see 200% devotion by him. The change I need to make is basically to let it go & start enjoying him/us. As it is, I really don't enjoy him now, I'm still filled with resentment & contained anger.
Don't I sound like a lot of fun!
Aight - later y'all.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 9:22 AM, October 22nd (Friday)]
...Another Catholic and a teacher too. Seems to be many of you all here. Do not grade my spelling and grammer please.
LOL, Dip, you write and spell too well for me not to notice that you purposely spelled "grammar" incorrectly just to see if we noticed!!!
I hope those alligators are at keeping at bay for you.
Nell, I'm sorry to hear that WH is just trying to "sweep it all under the rug" and act as though nothing happened.
Allgood, the only thing I could suggest, is don't hold yourself back from enjoying your WH. You are hurting yourself. Give yourself the freedom to enjoy life again. You have your boundaries up, you are not going to take any crap anymore, so, on this beautiful sunny day, let go, laugh if WH says something funny...it's ok. It seems that you are punishing yourself more than WH. Enjoy those beautiful kids and if WH is there, let go and enjoy one day at a time.
The way I see it, a lot of us have been in the blender and roller coaster of emotions for soooo long. Maybe we need to just stop for a while and get our bearings. The blender makes us dizzy and it hurts, the rollercoaster makes us feel unsteady and unsure.
Maybe for a while, it is wise to just be..... so we can catch our wind and see what the new perspective is.
I'm realizing as I'm writing this, that this is something I should do too, and what is the hardest is if there is still ongoing crap the WS is still dishing out. In some of our cases it's not like it's over and done with and in the past, some of the behaviors are ongoing....I don't mean A or A related, just the way they are acting.
Just one thing to add to it. We must first stop and forgive ourselves from taking blame for the A. If we feel that in the M there were things that we did or didn't do that we would have changed, recognize it and forgive ourselves.
Forgiving others is also a process, something that may take years. You cannot force it, because then it is only words and not true forgiveness.
You also need to drop the A. It's been a year. He is NC. He's taken a year of your crap. He might not be remorseful, but he's certainly committed. You married him and built a family with him for a reason. So make the changes you need to make to feel more comfortable in your own skin and try to rediscover what led you to marry your WH.
I hope it was in a good way.
It's funny, I was kind of thinking about what she was saying on my bike ride this AM (before I read Honest's post) and I guess I was thinking: I got what I wanted. I got better from my bipolar, my WH ditched OW and became kind and loving and fun and helpful again. I don't like what happened, and i don't like what it took to get my WH to truly, wholeheartedly commit to me and to this family, but I got what I wanted. I've got it all, actually. And what's more, the horrible suffering I went through with the bipolar, the 5 miscarriages, the endless doctor visits for my oldest's birth defect (he outgrew it when he was 3) and my WH's A -- I've been through hell so not only do I have it all, but I enjoy it in a way that's not obnoxious and I see it for what it is: nice, but certainly not what's truly important. OW was crazy jealous of me. She wanted to be me and wanted my life. But she failed.
So, I don't like how I got what I wanted. But I got it. I do truly and deeply love my husband, and he is my best friend and favorite companion. We usually agree on nearly everything, we have a wonderful sex life and are well-matched in nearly every way. I am so sad that he almost threw all that away, but at the 11th hour he changed his mind completely, and I decided to let him. Is that a blow to my pride? Certainly. Do I trust him? Not usually. It's a long row to hoe. But I got what I wanted. I got EVERYTHING I wanted. Four beautiful, kind, smart children, both boys and girls. Material wealth. Popularity. Good, true friends, not people who like me because I have X stuff. Good health, good looks, intelligence, a good job. A husband who loves me, even if he did mess that up big time in the past.
So, I am going to enjoy it. Sometimes it feels like this will ruin your life. It doesn't have to. If and when it becomes appropriate, just let it go. Will you forget? Of course not. That pain will be there somewhere forever -- but the past can't be changed so enjoy today, make positive plans for tomorrow.
What is that phrase? The best revenge is a life well-lived.
On a side note: Baby Paddy still cannot sit up and will have to go back to the doctor before her 9 month checkup to have her development evaluated again. On the plus side, she is TALKING! She says "hi" "Yeah" "mama" "Daddy" and "dada". All in context, though she does sing a "daddy song" she made up at random as well. So, whatever her motor problems might be, she is, like her brothers, sharp as a tack. She and my first started talking around seven months -- the middle two at 4 months. Crazy smart kids.
Thank you. BTW. You passed the proff reding test. Things would be easier if we had a spill checker function here at SI.
Hugs to the tribe.
"proof reading" I do well, I can also "spell", but bad at typing!!
Was a Language Arts/Reading teacher for 7th and 8th grade for toooo long.
M3: Beautiful post. You have been through so very much suffering. Now is the time to enjoy life.
I'm sure Baby Paddy will be fine. Not all babies can sit up by 7 months. She is too busy being smart than working on sitting!!!
[This message edited by honesttoafault at 12:28 PM, October 22nd (Friday)]
Was a Language Arts/Reading teacher for 7th and 8th grade for toooo long.
I do truly and deeply love my husband, and he is my best friend and favorite companion. We usually agree on nearly everything, we have a wonderful sex life and are well-matched in nearly every way.
i used to pray, everyday, several times a day for pfm to "see" his family and appreciate who we are.....i would pray to god even while driving, "lord please just help the man see what he is missing and losing".....
my prayer was answered, god said ok....well pfm sees now, but the cost is the loss of a marriage and he sees probably even at the loss of a good relationship with his children
pfm now does all that i asked him to do before d-day, all i wanted before he has become, and the one thing i didn't know he was - he is now...and it is the dealbreaker for me.......
m3 i am glad that you have the husband you always wanted....and happier still that the cost was not your marriage as it was mine.....
i have said it so many times...perspective is everything....when you could look at your sich such as it is and see the silver lining and even better appreciate it for what it is, you have gained perspective of someone who sees through eyes of love....you are choosing love instead of fear....and that is a huge huge yay for you.....
It's a beautiful day here in aussie land. I am trying to decide what to do. H is on the day shift today and tomorrow (Sat and Sun). So I will be home alone. It's going to be very warm so will try to get outside for a bit. Get myself a little bit of a tan (and maybe some sun cancer )
don't hold yourself back from enjoying your WH. You are hurting yourself. Give yourself the freedom to enjoy life again. You have your boundaries up, you are not going to take any crap anymore, so, on this beautiful sunny day, let go,
This also made me tear up. I'm soo tired of being sad. H is doing all he can to make me happy but has developed a new obsession (maybe to replace his whores ). He has these interests which dominate his life and he talks about them morning noon and night. The most recent - breeding race horses - was expensive and a disaster. It finished when our stallion died about 6 yrs ago - that's when he started with OW2. Since then he has had others but has not been as passionate- passion being expended on whores I guess. Now he's decided to breed ducks and is madly building pens, houses etc and reading up on them. I'm trying not to be bored!!!
I think he feels this gap in his life and is constantly trying to fill it. Needs to have something to do all the time. He's never been a drinker, or one of the boys, or interested in sports so I guess this is what he needs. I find it really hard to constantly be interested but feel I need to as part of our R. Ho hum.
I really am not sure where I'm at. Most of the time I want R but sometimes I feel like I don't give a shit. One of my teaching subjects is French and I was actually thinking the other day that I should take leave from my job for a year. Pack up and go to France and try to get work teaching English!!
I have visions of living in the south of France, improving my French and meeting some new people and getting my head on straight. I would leave H at home with his ducks
Just think of all the cabana boys miracle . Only problem is that if I did this I don't think H would cope. I think he'd give up and go find another whore. Maybe subconsciously that is what I want him to do.
If we did D that is what I would do. Pack up and go to the Riviera and find a nice rich Frenchman - although don't they have a reputation for having mistresses??
Just rambling here. I can never work out the time difference between aussie land and where you all are. I'm feeling a little lonely so using our forum to make me feel like i'm in touch with someone. Here it is 9.15 am on Sat morning and I think it's about 1am where most of you are. Would be interesting to know.
Really should be doing some housework better go
Take care tribe.
[edited because I couldn't come up with the right spelling for Sidney until I had already posted... and even now it looks wrong, but not as wrong as "Sydny."]
[This message edited by ImNellNow at 5:40 PM, October 22nd (Friday)]