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User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 20
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 7:46 PM, October 28th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood - I did laugh. I guess it's just everything accumulating. He's upstairs sulking right now in the bedroom and I'm not going up there. I'm sleeping in the guest room tonight. I don't know why I put up with all this stupid shit.

God help me! I just had a third manhattan!


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:53 PM, October 28th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...having a much needed manhattan

Make yourself another Manhattan.

and what was it they would drink when FWW went to meet with OM#2 when I was out of town..... Manhattans

nofun, I agree with allgood that in the scope of things the TV is not a huge deal, but why should it be a deal at all? Common curtesy, geesh.

iwam and strongish, glad I could give you two lovely ladies a laugh tonight.

I am having a grat night with myself, SI friends, and DS15. FWW is looking like hell, but not my problem. In the past I would be all caught up in trying to figure out how to make her happy, but that is no longer my job. I am here if she wants me.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:00 PM, October 28th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgirl: I hope the dinner went well, and I'm sure you looked great. Let us know what happened.

Allgood, you always seem to "hit the nail on the head" when it comes to WH. I need to focus on what you said, "OW is willing to share him and I'm not" . I think Miracle also said that WH is angry because I'm not quietly accepting everything. The other thing that you said really helped me too, I AM stressed out (been sick with bronchitis for 3 weeks now....better today thank God), very lonely, and it did feel good for a while. WH is like a toxic drug for me. Damn, when I married him I knew that he wasn't going to help out around the house much, but I FELT and really believed that he filled my emotional needs. Damn, I didn't ask for much, just pat me on the head a few times, give me hugs, say I'm pretty, and I'm yours. WH did do these things.....and I guess I have withdrawl
Allgood, you are doing what I always did....be "superwoman" and then get resentful. You MUST divide the housework more evenly with WH. You are BOTH working. Don't get angry, but just tell him matter of fact that he MUST do things around the house, not just you. This has nothing to do with love, it has to do with fairness and equity of sharing the house....even if you are just room mates. Don't go into "you ALWAYS do xyz", just simply state that the work must be shared, what jobs can HE do, you do, and possibly, both of you together?
I hope you do go out for a drink later with WH, but,.....ok.....I'm just being motherly here, don't drink too much, because I remember a few times that it got you upset. {{{{Allgood}}}

Nofun: Thank you for your support. The incident with the radio...I totally get it. I would be in the kitchen and WH would just change the station on me and walk out. It's not so much they are doing it on purpose, it's just the thoughtlessness. For you, it's not the straw that broke the camel's back. I think that happened already for you.
You are right, so many times when people are "too nice" they get taken advantage of. I said to my neighbor recently that it always bothered me that so often the bad guys/bastards would marry the nice girls, and the bitches would marry the nice men. The bitches complain about every little thing, and often get it. As I'm writing this, I remember something I read in a book I was browsing through. The author said that these guys/girls who cheat often choose someone who will put up with all their nonsense. They purposely picked us because we are good and compliant and honest. Can you really imagine a "bitch" putting up with all this crap? I think they would have complained and yelled at the first sign something was wrong, it would be hard to get away with it. They wouldn't let it go.....
Sorry, got a little "ventish" there.....don't know where I was going with that!

Ats, like everyone else, I loved your line:

I have started my hike, I do not think FWW will be traveling with me unless I pack her stuff and keep reminding her to keep up.

This is really amazing, Ats. It seems that you have come to a place that you see that FWW is very broken and it's not you. Also, in what you said, you seem to realize that FWW WILL come with you, but is she ABLE to?
I also liked your analogy about what a scout should do when they are lost and trying to find a way out. There is an ultimate goal, but smaller goals can and must be accomplished first.

FnF: Never hold back from posting because you are afraid that you will discourage the newbies. I don't think so at all. Everyone needs help and you've given so much wisdom and support, you must ask for it too. You are right, the emotional toll is just too great on me (as would be for anyone, I guess, unless they didn't care about thier spouse) My heart is much more fragile than I thought. I asked IC why?? I thought I "healed" from my first xWH's betrayal. She said that the wound might be healed, but when something so similar happens again, the scar breaks open and it's raw again. It'll heal fast,but it can hurt like hell again.

M3: good advice about setting some goals for ourselves. It is great that you bike like that and you've been able to buy new clothes!!
I think we should all make a mini "bucket list" for the next few months, just for ourselves and things that might help us. Maybe just 5 things....

Laura: I agree about what's best for us right now. My problem was and still is, that I'm living moment to moment, and I should do like Ats was talking about in his post...small goals, and to start thinking about an ultimate goal and start heading towards it, as slow as I need to go. Perhaps, as you say, it may be for the best to stay put for a while.

Deep: I'm glad you're starting to feel better and your job performance is reflecting this. Hopefully, it will be recognized and things will be ok in that dept.

Strongish: I know I need 2 x 4's , but of course the heart doesn't listen to the head.
I'm so glad you are going hiking! I've never done that for a weekend. Perhaps that's something I should put on my mini bucket list (or at least go for the day!)

Dip, please don't be intimidated because us LTA gals were talking "girl" talk for a while there. I hope those alligators are behaving themselves.

Miracle, you are in our thoughts and prayers. I hope you are doing well, and just check in....

I've survived another day...now, I need to start "living" those days and not just survive. I guess that's my goal for the month.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 3:02 AM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

Hope you are well tonight. It's 7pm here and H is away. He'll be home about 11pm.
Not looking forward to tomorrow.
How did you all handle your first wedding anniversary after dday.
I'm dreading it.

HUGS to all
Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:31 AM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DP.
I see that for the past few years we had been 180 each other at a very deep level - both leading very separate lives.
Chicken and egg – it’s hard to tell which came first, the affair or the withdrawing. And withdrawal is encouraged by the presence of the affair and vice versa. Everything becomes a downward spiral. The fact that the affair is concealed means that YOU start to take part of the blame. The fact is, the lack of attention to the marriage (if this was the case) should have been addressed, but your WW chose to fill her sense of dissatisfaction by seeking the attention of an OM, the worst choice imaginable. But somehow it only becomes clear just how bad this choice was towards the end or after d-day.
It was all part of The Process of Self Delusion. Google it and you’ll find the article. If not, I’ll pm it to you complete. Rationalising the affair, making them feel entitled, and then projecting to make it either a shared blame or completely the BS’s fault. Doing a form of 180 back to the WS is a natural reaction. And the relationship becomes more and more remote. It’s good you are feeling stronger and more confident in your work situation.

Strongish

However, both my MD and IC have now told me that they think that I have not felt "loved" by my WH for quite some time and while I was okay with that consciously, unconsciously I was detaching from him. When I found out about his A, my knee jerk reaction was that we had to work to stay together, but now I'm starting to wonder if that's really the right thing for me.
Pretty much what I said to DP, but I felt like this too. I had a hissy fit some months before d-day and went to stay with a friend. I was complaining about everything at home, including (W)H and she looked at me and said, “I want to ask you one thing, And think about your answer. The boys will be leaving home in the next few years and it will be just you and H. Will that be enough?” I said nothing. “UKgirl, do you love him?” I had this sad blanket drape over me as realisation set in. I said “I don’t know” Now THAT was caused, directly caused, by HIS attitude to me. I didn’t feel loved or cared about that much and so I was withdrawing too, probably preparing for S&D a little further down the line. However, my hissy fit made WH sit up a bit, take some notice and pull me back in. I think it may have been the time when he realised he was losing me. Finding out about the affair was like a marital tsunami, I was holding on to him to survive the drowning. I think I also recognised that if I threw him out, he would have gone to her. Not straight away, perhaps, but the continued contact with MOW would have persuaded him to go to her. And I guess a part of me wasn’t having that!

nofun,

Well, I flip out and start yelling at him and telling him how dare he disrespect me. I'm listening to music and you put the TV on?
If it’s the umpteenth time, I can understand your reaction. Did he do it to get that response so he could have his sulk? What if you had asked him why he did it? What if you came into the room while he was watching tv and just turned it off? Try to get him to be in your shoes – he never wants to be anywhere than in his “poor me” mood. So what should he do to change it? It seems he wants the excuse to sink, it’s an easier place for him to be as he doesn’t have to DO anything. Bit pathetic really. (((((nofun)))))

allgood,

at 9pm and found he was already asleep - that he actually got off the couch, walked past the food from dinner that was still sitting on the counter & a sink full of dishes, I was just amazed.
Sometimes it feels easier to just do it all yourself, but that just feeds the resentment. I don’t know about your H, but mine can do all that and just not see what needs doing. He just doesn’t see it and it gets to me at times. And then he says, just tell me, I didn’t know it was upsetting you. But by then, I’ve done it all and got a strop on. If he lived on his own, he’d either have to get a housekeeper or live in a state I would consider uninhabitable.

Okay. The Dinner and The XHSGF. It went okay. She seemed really nice, so was her H. Talked about her three boys and empty nesting. But yes, she, MOW and i all seem to fit a type/mould. Her H reminded me a bit of MOW’sBH. Completely opposite to FWH. She turned up in dark jeans, mauve shirt and a beige/grey gilet. Not much makeup, glasses, untamed wiry brownish hair, untrained/plucked eyebrows, a couple of inches taller than me (MOW is a bit shorter), blue eyes, caped teeth, nicely spoken without a trace of her South African roots. She made a point when referring to a couple they holiday with that she can’t be bothered with fashion. So what she thought of me, I don’t know. I shouldn’t care, but I do. They’ll be meeting again on 3rd Dec for the reunion dinner. If someone wants an affair, and they want to keep it hidden, they will. There were a few long “looks”. Last night they didn’t bother me, but they do this morning. Esp with the last comment of “see you in a few weeks”. MOW wasn’t mentioned – she’s never been part of the reunion dinner crowd. His LTA was an isolated part of his life and there were no connections to anyone or anything outside of it.

Time to throw off the down that is threatening to follow me and get on with the day. Have a good one everybody.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 3:36 AM, October 29th (Friday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 5:32 AM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

double post

[This message edited by deeppurple at 5:35 AM, October 29th (Friday)]


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 5:32 AM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgirl - thanks if you could PM it would be appreciated.
Honest - thank you - I know I have performed much better this month & I'm on top of the workload. There loss if it happens but as you say another door opens.

WW mother doesnt know about A as she went thru hell when her H had 2 affairs then divorce. She has noticed the chance in WW & how much more she is involved in the real world.
Unfortunately I may have found the reason for the sadness in her eyes - i'm only guessing - she has taken another pregnancy test - cycle not due for 2 weeks. She is playing russian roullette - Im hoping she is finally seeing the situation as it is that she has everything she wants at home with her family.
I plan to ask tonite how she feels (honestly) using work as the reason for my concern & reaffirm that im there for her.
I feel very strong at the moment & positive - its a long journey - ATS I guess I do have map just not sure where this journey will take us.

[This message edited by deeppurple at 5:34 AM, October 29th (Friday)]


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:08 AM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Real quick:

Honest: I'm glad I was able to say something to help you focus.
Seriously, I never looked at other men before, EVER, to the utter amazement of my friends. Now, I do it all the time. I'm not going to act on it, but it helps me realize there are other men out there that I find attractive & that are interesting. I hope you are getting out a little bit.
And, you are right about me & the drinks. We actually stayed in & just watched tv while having a few drinks - I went with the Mike's hard lemonade option - a lot safer than the mixed drinks -those are the ones that produce (?) the tears/anger.
As to calmly stating what needs to be done: BTDT. I have even recently gone so far as asking breaking it down for him into child-like chore tasks & asked him to do 2 things on his 3 days off. That was a month ago...

UKGirl: can you go to the reunion with him? My H just got a notice of a reunion coming up in the spring & while past gf has not bee nan issue in our M, I now think every situation with alcohol & charming, good looking guy with no boundaries is going to be a problem. I'm thinking of asking to go with him, even tho I 've never done that before.

Ats: Yes - I forgot to mention your comment about packing WW stuff, etc. that was REALLY funny and poignant.

Ok - got to go. People are expecting food.

BTW - I LOVE Halloween! Is anyone dressing up?


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 6:44 AM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been quiet lately... doing a bit of introspection following some struggles within myself. Anyhoo.

allgood:

it helps me realize there are other men out there that I find attractive & that are interesting

I drive quite a distance every day to work and generally see the same drivers. Yesterday I took a different route and saw new people, including a good-looking man in the vehicle behind me. His look (at least shoulders up ) is opposite of WH. Then I realized that Opposite-of-WH is exactly the "look" I've been drawn to lately. (Drawn to used very loosely, you understand.)

Please give your WH a calm "I'm overwhelmed with everything that needs to be done every day, and I need you to pick up a few responsibilities around here" talk. Some years ago my WH chose his "chore" to do every day and (except during the A, when he left it to me about half the time) he has been doing it nearly every day since. Do you remember what Shirley Glass said about people being more willing to have an A if they are not involved in their homes? This is all outside of your feelings of being used and taken advantage of, which are to be expected in that situation and not good for anyone.

Laura,
Our anniversary was dinner and a night out. I spent the evening concentrating on not concentrating on the date and trying to think of it as just a nice night out with WH. He did give me this whole looking deeply into my eyes while holding my hands garbage. Later wrote me a letter about how he was really appreciating all that we had together or some such pretty words. Meanwhile, I was looking everywhere but at him to keep my mind off of what it was we were "celebrating." In other words, it was fine. I was incredibly nervous before and gave myself silent permission to call the whole thing off at the last minute, which did help.

Both Boyos have their school Halloween parties today. My parents are arriving for a long weekend today. I was feeling very overwhelmed yesterday and told WH, who took it upon himself to do the shopping (that should have been done earlier but whatever) last night, so that was good. Last year I bought a Halloween tiara and the Boyos collected orange and black Mardi Gras beads somewhere along the line, so I'll top off my regular jeans and black long-sleeved Vneck with cheap jewelry and be the Mean Queen of Halloween.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 7:19 AM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Nell

Thanks for your response

I often feel alone in that everyone else seems to be active at a different time.

Nice to know there is someone out there hearing me right now.

Are you in the US?

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:30 AM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Last night FWW picked a fight becasue I couldn't sleep!

Earlier she offered a foot rub, and when I tried to extend the activity to more she made a joke about my always wanting sex (it has been 2 weeks). I told her I thought sex 1 or twice a week was reasonable, what did sshe think. She went on and on about wanting sex, wanting time, so I asked how do we make it happen? Do we schedule days? Do I wait for her? I asked her if she is not into sex, she said she NEVER thinks about it, if I should find it on the side somewhere? She said she enjoys it once it starts, but we are at an impasse on getting it started.

After that I was not able to sleep, she was reading and said she could not sleep. I said, since we are both awake do you want to have sex? She got a shocked look in her eyes and asked, "Do you want sex?

I went to the kitchen for a snack. She came into the kitchen and flicked the light on demanding to know what I was doing. I was having a cookie and milk, she thought I was drinking. She said she cannot sleep if she does no know that I am settled, and that I had been tossing and snooring. She worries that I am going to do somethiing. I told her I would sleep on the couch and would leave her the hell alone.

At about 1 am when I went outside for a smoke, after a week of nothin but superficial conversation from her, she said we should talk and it is not good when we do not talk. I told her anything I would want to talk about she has already said is not helpful, and has refused to answer, so it is my problem to deal with. I also pointed out that the last time we talked (Friday night) it resulted in a week of withdrawal.

It is just not working, it is better, but this is no life. She has had a shitty week, I have done pretty well, but we have been detached from each other. I will participate in repairing the relationship, but she has to do some of the work and figure out how to get us back together.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 10:12 AM, October 29th (Friday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi ats

Are you still there/ I went to bed and then couldn't sleep. Watching clock count down until our anniversary - about 5 mins now.

I am so sorry you feel as you do. You have been trying so hard. She really needs to step up and decide what she wants.

I'm so sorry.

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Real quick (no time today at all....)

Ats: I still see your W making an effort. Some of the things you wrote about would not have happened inthe past. Do not give up. Tell her Sat night is sex night. That's it. Lol. (Now, if my H said that to me... Lol... But, seriously, I wasn't too interested in sex prior to DDay, I was just too busy/tired, etc. and to be honest, I didn't have a connection with my H & I think that had everything to do with me not wanting to have sex. In fact I had told my H I could go the rest of my life without having sex. (Probably not a good thing to have said... but anyhoo...) But, now, if you are trying to R, your needs have to be met too. So, even tho I would just as soon choose sleep over sex now (for the same reasons prior to DDay), I do make an effort because I know how important it is to my H. And, the same should be expected of your wife.


Laura:
My anniversary - I refused to celebrate it. I felt that there was nothing to celebrate. Hit me like a ton of bricks. I was excited about it, I was looking forward to using it as an opportunity to renew our commitment to each other, etc. and planned a weekend away without the kids, but when it came down to buying a card, that's when it hit me. What marriage is supposed to be. What an anniversary is supposed to be. I couldn't say any of those things. Told my H we weren't celebrating. He bought me a card anyway and tried to remind me that our relationship is better than it was in many ways & would still get better. And, he said at least, our wedding was the day we became a family, leading up to us having our kids. He played ball that night & I stayed home, which was fine by me.

What are you thinking about your anniversary?

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 8:57 AM, October 29th (Friday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi, Laura. I'm in the US but keep weird hours, so generally try to check in to SI before 6am my time and then just a couple threads (this one and 180 Train in General) once or twice a day. Sometimes I slip and spend way more time than that reading post after post but that rarely works in my favor.

ats,
*sigh* I'm sorry. I agree with everyone here, but until your WW gets it (that she needs to, you know, put some effort into making her marriage healthy) it doesn't matter that everyone else on the planet knows what she should do. I get the "we never talk, we need to talk" words from WH, too... but what he means is "hey, are you over my 'transgression' yet? because I've been doing the dishes and acting like a semi-active member of the household for months now so enough already."


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ok sticking my head out for short bit...


it seems that a few of you are dealing with ws's who are stuck in their old patterns of self absorbtion...not realizing that these tendencies need to change in order for you the bs to feel remotely like the ws is even trying to be anything else that is not self serving......these ws's need to be told that there is a process that must be honored to get what they covet most of all,the process is in 2 parts...

the first part is getting over the crushing feelings that come with infidelity, enough to move on with the marriage at hand..

the second part is getting the marriage where it should have been all along....

both parts will get both the ws and bs what they want, but only if they work really hard at it, consistently, with love and compassion...

now this is not something that can be done without some kind of help...mc is in order......

if things do not change resentment will build upon the crushed emotional pain....a scenario that will produce a failed marriage....

the bs also has to work on the marriage at some point as well...it takes 2....and if one party consistently refuses to do what it takes, and if this happens while also recieving help from a third party such as mc....then the recipe is set for failure in the relationship...a relationship need active participation from 2 people in order to succeed, otherwise all you have are 2 people going through the motions.....sometimes going through the motions is all one can muster at times...but the point will come where that will no longer be a viable option, at least not an option for happiness.....

i would hope that all want that ultimately...to be happy or at the very least content within their lives.......

happiness does not just happen, at least not for any of us or our ws's either....we must all actively make it happen....

i love m3 idea of a bucket list.....we should always have small goals that we wish to accomplish, and this should be throughout our lives....goals changing as times change, as our children change, as our lives consistently change - our goals should consistently change...

life is for the living....living life to the fullest that you possibly can every single day....and yes some of those days encompass doing scut work...those are the days where you do what you HAVE to do so that you could eventually have the days to do what you WANT to do.....


we have all been handed a raw deal without a single doubt.....none of us have asked for this, none of us deserve any of this...but we are stuck with it, we cannot change it, we cannot undo it, and instead of trying to forget it maybe we need to just put it away with all the other unpleasant shit that has gone on in our lives.....accept it and put it away....

for those who are still raw this is not something that can be considered yet....you unfortunately need to go through it, to feel it to heal it.....

instead on focusing on what your ws can do to heal you, figure out what you can do to heal yourself.....if you are fortunate and your ws is willing and working on this you will heal faster with that help, if you have a ws who is incapable of helping you heal, then heal yourself doing whatever it takes to do so...as long as whatever you decide to do does not hurt another innocent person or break you financially....go for it, and go for it with a zest.....you would be surprised at what you learn along the journey....

and do not be afraid of failure, failure is necessary in order to succeed......so make that list, share or don't share it, but DO IT....one at a time...DO IT....


and remember whoever you were in your marriage before is not who you need to be now.....and whoever your ws was in your marriage before cannot be who they are now......you will surely never find happiness or contentment in an unchanged ws, there will be no peace in that sich.....

your path of least regret needs to include room for your goals, room for your needs and room for love of self first and foremost.....

ok putting head back in now...


(((tribe))))

[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 9:27 AM, October 29th (Friday)]


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Miracle!!!!!


Good to see you!

Well put.
I am going to look for a new MC - one that seems to know a bit more about infidelity and a little more forthcoming with solutions, in addition to a better schedule...


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Cool  Posted: 1:48 PM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


breathe in deeeep.....exhale fully....

better now

FWW invited me to meet her for lunch to talk after her IC this morning. It was interesting to hear her version of the last week. She was taking on much more of the blame than I would have given her. She, the C, and I all agree the depression and withdrawal is not helpful. Still no solution to that; should I continue to give her space and we end up with weeks like the last, or do I “invade” her space and try to pull her out of her withdrawal. No good answer. She still feels guilt about whom she is and her behavior can’t really help her on that one.

Sex? It may be that the realistic issue to be working on is can we have a relationship and be M without regular sex? For me I am pretty sure the answer is no, but if the real issue is her not being interested in participating in sex then it is silly to keep trying to figure out how to make it happen. With the OM it appears she felt obligated to provide sex when they wanted it, and then at least some of the times enjoyed it once they were in to it. We just never (rarely) get the start. She understands the concept of use it or lose it with sex, she admits she often enjoys it once she starts, she says she liked the Tantric exercises. Problem is she almost never thinks about sex, almost never feels like having sex, and other issues end up commanding more of her time than meeting this key desire of mine. She continues to explain that after 20 years of M it is normal for the frequency of sex to drop, but it is not like we are looking back on a functional 20 year marriage. Besides, I do not think very many couples find sex 8 – 12 times a year adequate. Still, if she is not into it, there is not much to do about it. BTW, I can guarantee this is not a hygiene or technique issue, she is just not into it.

She says that the IC/MC will be calling me to schedule and appt with me, and he told her he would see her next week rather than allow her to decide on weekly or bi-weekly.

allgoodnames, you are right that she is making progress. In the past I would have caught most of the blame for the last week. This time she blamed herself. Now if we can just get past the blame-game and start to identify and fix problems we may be doing better. In answer to your question yes, I am a scarecrow type body with scary pumpkin head and hands. We decorate for Halloween just like Christmas. Well not just like, we use ghouls and pumpkins and orange and black lights in place of Santa, elves, and green, red, and white lights.

I chuckle every time I read about a husband not doing work around the house. Early in my M I figured FWW was upset because I did not do enough around the house. After all, that is what she told me and what the books and articles say about husbands of unhappy wives. So, I eventually got to the point that I do much of the laundry (FWW is doing more lately), most of the kitchen cooking and cleaning, trash, recyclables, grocery shopping, and a fair amount of sweeping and general cleaning in addition to all home and car repairs. For me, living on my own was actually much less work.

Laura28, we went out to a low-key restaurant for our 20th wedding A, the first after dday. FWW wanted to acknowledge the event. I am ambivalent about the date because I am unsure about the M. Once we fully R and have sufficiently healed the M, I think I will be happy to reclaim our A date and be proud of what we made it through, but for now, ehhh.

UKgirl, I am glad your Thursday evening out went ok. Were you able to use any of my "break the ice" suggestions? I have never been big on reunions and living in the past, nor well understood those who enjoy them. I have truly found that life has moved on for me and HS/college friends and you can't go back. I agree with you on the chicken/egg question on the withdrawing and A. FWW began her withdraw from me soon after our M, but it REALLY took a step up once she was into her A’s. As she withdrew, so too did I, but there is cause and effect and her withdraw and distancing is what started and perpetuated the whole landslide of dysfunction. We both struggle now with working at the M, but if we had emotional honesty and intimacy 20 years ago I think we would have had a much happier and productive life so far (and no A’s).

Iwam, it was nice to hear from you. Have you been reading philosophy? You cannot be getting those insights from Harry Potter?

All, I read an interesting article on A’s and the triangulation of relationships. It is all too excessive to summarize, but interesting reading, especially as it relates to A’s and the selection of AP.

Well, I need to do some work. I will catch up later.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
m334455
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Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ATS --

I disagree. There is a surprising amount of insight in Harry Potter!

Mini Bucket List:
Ok. I am going to do the Body for Life challenge. I've always wanted to. I'm not telling anyone but you guys. I'm going to update you EVERY day (M-F) Hold my feet to the fire, please.

I'm keeping this the only item on my mini-bucket list for now because it's a 12 week deal.

ATS --
Isn't ironic that the spouse with the lower sex drive is the cheater? My case too. It's so aggrivating.

Deeppurple
What would you do if that pregnancy test came back positive? She keeps taking them so this bears some very serious thought. I'm not saying you have to tip your hand to her -- but I think that it's best for you to figure out your plan of action if she does get pregnant.

I want to recommend The Divorce Remedy by Michelle Weiner Davis. There is a section in there specifically on how to save your marriage and get rid of the OP when your spouse is in an A and refuses to end it. I've got it right here and I'd like to share a small quote:

If you are considering trying to save your marriage when your partner is unwilling to end the affair, you can count on receiving lots of advice from people who know about the situation. They will undoubtedly tell you to stop being a doormat and go on with your life. You need to be the one who calls the shots on this one. This is, after all, your life. You need to decide how you want to handle it. Trust your instincts. Don't let anyone else tell you what to do.

Question: Why don't you two kiss? Is it her? My WH stopped kissing me during his A too. I missed it SO much.

You wanted to kiss her. What would she have done? What if you just said "I want to kiss you."?

The advice in this book -- it's good. One thing it says is: don't snoop; you're only hurting yourself.

This is wise. Think of your WW as a woman you're seeing casually and non-exclusively but would like to have something more with.

It also says: you need to figure out what is so appealing about this OP so you can fufill that need.

For example: when I finally got out of WH the "why" of his A it was: It was exciting to take a risk, it made him feel young and it was easy."

(I know you're all rolling your eyes -- THAT'S IT?! -- try not to think about it too much or your head might explode)

Anyway, OP was my "friend" too so that plus his "why" pretty much gives me the formula. He needs to feel young. He needs easy, exciting risks. OW spent a lot of time keeping fit, she's been a rising star at her job, she was always leaning on WH to "save" her, she was on birth control so the sex was consequence-less...

So -- ta da.

Enough. You get where I'm going.

One more thing, DP. You are a HERO. Be proud. Very, very proud. I will pray that your wife sees your love and who you truly are, and also sees how she is being used, not loved, by OM.

A poster in another forum said that Infidelity taught her that "you have to be your own hero." So true. And ultimaately empowering.

I've become relatively fearless since Dday -- nothing could be worse than this. Nothing. What is there left to fear once the worst has already happened?

Allgood --
I am having a huge halloween party, will probably have people crashed all over my house. Costumes are required. I will be a pirate.

So, I almost filed for D before Dday too. I felt like I'd been beating my head against a brick wall trying to figure out WH's major malfunction. Dday stopped me. Not all our problems were A related, but not one of them could have been solved with the A going on. Why solve your problem when you can go complain to your AP?

Plus, it finally gave me LEVERAGE.

So do you really have to know what you're saving? Nope. you can't even know it. Your M will be fundamentally changed. You're builing something new.

As for healing all: don't focus on your WS. Your WS cannot help you heal. They can behave badly and impede your healing. They can behave well and allow your healing to progress at the most rapid pace possible. But you must heal yourself. There is not a damn thing your WS can do to heal you. I'm not sure it's even appropriate. Heal yourself. Trust your spouse again, or don't. Remain married, or don't. But you must heal yourself either way.

Miracle -- hi!
You're right; accept it and put it away (when the time is right) None of us got our first choice (or even our 2nd-5th probably...) but you make the best choice you can with the information you're given and the hand you're dealt and you move on.

As for failure -- when I was confirmed in the church nearly 3 years ago I chose St. Bridget of Sweden as my patron saint. She's the patron saint of failure. She failed at everything she ever attempted.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

O man - I had to log back in to respond to you M3 cuz your post just cracked me up too many times not to.

First off, I LOVED the Harry Potter series. I finished each book like instantly cuz I couldn't put them down. (And, I'm really not a book lover.)

And look at you with the Halloween party! Here I am just hoping to deal with the week's events that have left my house looking like it threw up on itself.
How fun!
Have a great time! (I seriously would love to be able to do social like things like this with you guys & we could all bring our spouses & not tell them we know each other from SI - I think that would be hysterical!)

But, this is what made me go back & log in to respond:

I chose St. Bridget of Sweden as my patron saint. She's the patron saint of failure. She failed at everything she ever attempted


And did you choose this saint KNOWING this information?


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 7:30 PM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

eta just triggered. sorry

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 7:46 PM, October 29th (Friday)]


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