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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men-Part 6 (Men only)
Razor
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Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wonder if he actually got the truth out of her with that method?


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3086 | Registered: Sep 2007
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Talk about an anger stage.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
wonderingbull
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Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You mean he only did it once and he's in trouble? What's up with that...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5893 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
glasvegas
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Member # 22639
Default  Posted: 12:47 AM, October 30th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Actually, he has a history of domestic violence...so don't hero worship too much.

Posts: 321 | Registered: Jan 2009
Lotsa
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Member # 28078
Default  Posted: 12:57 AM, October 30th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TBH, if he waterboarded me, I'd probably admit having fucked the OM, or whatever it might be that he alleged I'd had sex with...

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2010
Proview
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Member # 24215
Default  Posted: 2:45 AM, October 30th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now, why didn't I think of that?

After having been through a "demonstration" during a training session I would say bc no sane person who has ever been through it would try it. you actually can drown the person.


Posts: 81 | Registered: May 2009 | From: AZ transplant
Proview
♂ Member
Member # 24215
Default  Posted: 2:46 AM, October 30th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Who would have thought that if you put a bunch of men together, we would gab to part 6 already

you guys talk too much but...
.
.
.
.
.
keep talking bc some of out hear lurking are listening/reading.



Posts: 81 | Registered: May 2009 | From: AZ transplant
SourCherryDrops
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Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 5:41 AM, October 30th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Its really kind of scary.

A bit over a year ago i would have said that that dipshit crazy idiot needs to be put in a jail and the key thrown away.

while now thats still my opinion, I can almost empathise with him..... Scary.


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
survivorman
♂ Member
Member # 29515
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, October 30th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey, everyone. Just finished reading through the BM5 thread after coming across Mr. Kite's recommendation to another poster somewhere else on the site, and man, am I glad I finally found it. Don't get me wrong -- the rest of SI is great and I really value the support I've gotten in D/S, but there's a lot to be said for the BH perspective, which as many of you have noted seems fundamentally different in important ways than that of the BW.

A few of your recent discussions here really struck a chord with me. The subject of WW remorse -- more to the point, the lack of it -- has me thinking more about our false R following my WW's EA last summer. I didn't originally see it for what it was, because when my WW abruptly announced in mid-August that she wanted to move out and get a D, I was so stunned that I didn't immediately draw any connection to her EA and its aftermath. See, I actually thought things were going pretty well at the time. More the fool me.

Oh, also, it turns out that WW is pretty seriously nuts -- in ways that go well beyond the "dumb-things-waywards-do" drill that we all know so well.

Even though I recognized the return of her wayward thinking -- the rewriting of marital history, the insistence that we had "never shared a truly deep connection," her bizarre claim that she "can't trust" me -- I just didn't know what to make of it. To put it bluntly, I got played. She did a great job of anticipating how I'd react -- hell, she had my playbook based on the previous summer -- and she initially had me half-convinced that that all her bullshit about dealing with her "deeper emotions" and her insistence that we'd never really "connected" at a fundamental level (in 13 years together!) had some truth to it. I even got a version of the it's-not-you-it's-me breakup speech .

What I've realized in the course of reading back here is that my WW wasn't remotely remorseful about her EA or the resulting destruction of our family. Sure, she was sorry once she came out of the fog, but even that was mostly limited; she'd say how stupid she'd been, and apologized for hurting me, but that was about it. Even as consequential regret, it was pretty weak tea.

And here the difference between EAs and PAs really bit me in the ass, because once WW was out of the fog, I basically let her off the hook way too easily. The EA didn't totally shatter me the way a PA probably would have. I mean, I was a wreck anyway, given that WW had been upfront about how she intended to leave me for the OM and was only sticking around temporarily because of our son. But once it ended and WW came out of the fog, I was able to forgive and forget a lot more easily than I'd otherwise have been able to. I sometimes think of my experience as Infidelity Lite, because this EA never came close to evolving into a PA -- although I'm sure it would have given half a chance.

One reason it didn't was that the EA itself existed mostly in WW's head. What I later realized was that WW's infatuation/obsession with OM (an exBF who's now married and living several hundred miles away) was based solely on the way she was reading "meaning" into otherwise innocuous emails and other ephemera she was finding on the Internet. I still remember the night she told me that OM had invited her to get back together and that she wanted to "explore" it (by leaving me) -- I'd already read the email in question, which said nothing of the sort unless you strained and squinted and held it sideways. But it was enough for WW to want to throw me and our family over.

The extreme fantasy element of this pseudo-EA -- because OM wisely cut contact with WW pretty quickly once he realized how nutty she was -- persisted. WW basically stalked OM over the Web for six weeks and convinced herself that he was secretly in love with her but was sounding her out via secret messages left on various Web sites he frequented. So she never ended up explicitly declaring her love for him or anything, except in weird indirect ways that she thought he'd pick up on -- for instance, by creating a playlist on a streaming music site filled with suggestive song titles ("Hold On, I'm Coming" and shit like that, mostly) intended for his benefit. That was just the tip of the iceberg, it turned out.

The whole thing collapsed on her not long after I finally called OMW and learned that she knew everything about OM's contact with my WW and that both she and her husband thought WW was crazy. OM sent us a no-contact letter, and two days later WW's obsession had turned into a scary paranoia during which she was convinced that OM and his shadowy minions were threatening us and our son, sending her intimidating messages (via spam comments left on WW's blog, no less), bugging our house, tapping our phones, mysteriously deleting and then restoring WW's email, etc. Deeply disturbing stuff.

And because of that paranoia, and the fact that WW turned to me as her anchor to help her through it, she never really addressed her earlier behavior in any serious or sustained way. I fell down, too; as her paranoia eased, I was so glad to have WW back that I didn't really set too many conditions on R. We already had NC from the OM, and WW got transparent by opening up her email and deleting the rather vast network of fake accounts she'd set up to conduct her stalking.

But that was about it; beyond that, she mostly wanted to act as though the events of last summer never happened. She rejected IC and was only briefly open to MC (a window I didn't take advantage of). In other respects, things were great, and as real life had come back with a vengeance -- mostly work stuff I'd slacked off on during the crisis period -- I sort of let things ride. Which worked fine until she dropped the bomb two months ago, pretty much out of the blue.

Sorry for the long-winded introduction, but the sheer bizarreness of all this makes it hard to summarize. WW moved out almost a month ago, we're sharing 50-50 custody of our son and we've started divorce mediation. I've been steadily detaching since a few weeks before she left, and pretty much have held NC except for discussion of our son and divorce stuff.

It's peaceful, and I don't really miss WW at all. But when I let myself think of it -- which isn't often -- I sure as hell miss the woman she used to be and the life we had together.

[This message edited by survivorman at 10:39 AM, October 30th (Saturday)]


Me: BH; Her: Slime Mold; DS7
D-day #1 6/09; D-day #2 8/10; divorced 3/12

After what you did I can't stay on
And I'll probably feel a whole lot better
When you're gone


Posts: 489 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: survivorman
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, October 30th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good to see you made it to the thread, survivorman. After reading your post it seems that you chose your screen name well. Yes, it makes one wonder how some of us sleep soundly at night, knowing that there are sharp knives in the drawers and WW's like this roaming around.

Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
survivorman
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Member # 29515
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, October 31st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, Mr. Kite. Glad I caught your recommendation to another poster.

Yes, it makes one wonder how some of us sleep soundly at night, knowing that there are sharp knives in the drawers and WW's like this roaming around.

Trust me, it's even more challenging when one still has a key to your house .

Looks like one big difference between BHes and BWs is that the men take the weekend off here at SI. Busy working on ourselves, hiking across the PLF or growing our balls back, I guess .

[This message edited by survivorman at 10:41 AM, October 31st (Sunday)]


Me: BH; Her: Slime Mold; DS7
D-day #1 6/09; D-day #2 8/10; divorced 3/12

After what you did I can't stay on
And I'll probably feel a whole lot better
When you're gone


Posts: 489 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: survivorman
SerJR
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Member # 14993
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, October 31st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What I've realized in the course of reading back here is that my WW wasn't remotely remorseful about her EA or the resulting destruction of our family. Sure, she was sorry once she came out of the fog, but even that was mostly limited; she'd say how stupid she'd been, and apologized for hurting me, but that was about it. Even as consequential regret, it was pretty weak tea.

Ah yes... let me guess... the whole "I'm sorry for everything and it's all my fault... but I had no choice"

I fell down, too; as her paranoia eased, I was so glad to have WW back that I didn't really set too many conditions on R.

I think that's a trap that many BS's fall into. The immediate and visible threat is there no longer... and we become afraid to push our spouse's away by delving into the whole "WTF was that?"

It's strange, but generally the WW's in particular seem to really have a hard time with letting go of the fantasy. They're convinced that they would never cheat (because women just don't do that) and liken the whole thing to romanticised notions of their soulmate trying to rescue them from the clutches of the troll who's put a false claim on her. Even when the whole thing (and their lives) fall apart in their faces they can't accept that there is no fantastic story behind this... and that they simply just fucked things up bigtime.

The hardest part I found though, was that every once in a while I could see the wife I loved pierce through the delusion... but whether it really was her or it was just something I was looking for I'll never know. Those little glimpses weren't nearly enough to make a change.

Making the best decision for the peace of the family isn't always easy survivorman... but one alone can't rebuild a marriage. Moving forward, one way or another, is the right choice for you.


Me: BH - Happily remarried.
Hope is never lost. It exists within you - it is real. It is not a force in and of itself - it is something that you create with every thought, action, and choice you make. It is a gift that you create for yourself.

Posts: 17093 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Further North than South
oftenwrong
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Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, October 31st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I really wish you would post more SerJr.

Your posts are always so enlightening.


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
survivorman
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Member # 29515
Default  Posted: 1:56 PM, October 31st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ah yes... let me guess... the whole "I'm sorry for everything and it's all my fault... but I had no choice"

Not even. More like, "I know I put you through hell, and I'm sorry, but that was a really weird time." No introspection, no self-awareness -- nada. She actually did finally apologize for the pseudo EA, saying it was "like a bomb I set off in the marriage." But that was right before she decided to move out, so even that ended up being part of her self-justification -- at least when she was trying to convince me that this was all about her issues with trust and intimacy.

It's strange, but generally the WW's in particular seem to really have a hard time with letting go of the fantasy. They're convinced that they would never cheat (because women just don't do that) and liken the whole thing to romanticised notions of their soulmate trying to rescue them from the clutches of the troll who's put a false claim on her. Even when the whole thing (and their lives) fall apart in their faces they can't accept that there is no fantastic story behind this... and that they simply just fucked things up bigtime.

Tell me about it. During the EA, WW developed a huge Joseph Campbell fixation and reread Pathways to Bliss several times. I know from her emails and notes to herself that she was convinced she was on some bullshit "hero's journey" to make her way to OM. That clearly fed her delusion that she first had to solve the puzzle of his "secret messages" on her way to him.

And I'm pretty convinced that she's back in the grip of the same fantasy. The one time she was remotely honest with me about what's going on now, she admitted that she again thought OM might be leaving her messages on the Internet. There's other circumstantial evidence pointing to the same conclusion, not that any of it matters much now, because I'd have to think long and hard before I'd ever even consider taking her back.

I do -- or, rather, mostly did -- see glimpses of my old wife from time to time, most recently yesterday when she dropped off my son. Trouble is, I think she's buried pretty deep now. Of course, if you listen to WW, that woman was the imposter, and the one she is now is the newly recovered and "authentic" version. She's welcome to enjoy that new personality on her own.

Making the best decision for the peace of the family isn't always easy survivorman... but one alone can't rebuild a marriage. Moving forward, one way or another, is the right choice for you.

Yup, I've been resigned to that for a while. Hey, at least one of my son's parents has to be anchored in reality for him.

[This message edited by survivorman at 2:00 PM, October 31st (Sunday)]


Me: BH; Her: Slime Mold; DS7
D-day #1 6/09; D-day #2 8/10; divorced 3/12

After what you did I can't stay on
And I'll probably feel a whole lot better
When you're gone


Posts: 489 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: survivorman
SerJR
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Member # 14993
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, October 31st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But that was right before she decided to move out, so even that ended up being part of her self-justification -- at least when she was trying to convince me that this was all about her issues with trust and intimacy.

Of course. When she doesn't ride off into the sunset with the OM (because he's tucked his wee-wee between his legs and crawled under a rock), she has to re-write the whole theme of the story. Chalk it up to the fates bringing in the OM to catalyse the story of her discovering who she is and what she needs in a mate. So instead of "woman vs. troll" it becomes "woman's noble voyage to self discover".

Apparently, it becomes quite easy to find one's self when one has shoved their head up one's keister


Me: BH - Happily remarried.
Hope is never lost. It exists within you - it is real. It is not a force in and of itself - it is something that you create with every thought, action, and choice you make. It is a gift that you create for yourself.

Posts: 17093 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Further North than South
toby
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Member # 10337
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, October 31st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Apparently, it becomes quite easy to find one's self when one has shoved their head up one's keister

Good one, Ser.

Posts: 1493 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Texas
survivorman
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Member # 29515
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, October 31st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, I'm going to have to remember that one, too.


Me: BH; Her: Slime Mold; DS7
D-day #1 6/09; D-day #2 8/10; divorced 3/12

After what you did I can't stay on
And I'll probably feel a whole lot better
When you're gone


Posts: 489 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: survivorman
OnceInALifetime
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Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 9:35 PM, October 31st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SurvivorMan,

Based on what you've written, my completely unprofessional diagnosis is that your wife is nuts. This almost sounds like the beginnings of a serious mental disease.

Yes, it makes one wonder how some of us sleep soundly at night, knowing that there are sharp knives in the drawers and WW's like this roaming around.

OK, little poll here. How many of you have actually worried a bit about your STBXW killing you in your sleep, or putting little doses of poison in your food, or maybe just adding some lungies to your soup?

I'll raise my hand.


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
quedagh
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Member # 24195
Default  Posted: 9:49 PM, October 31st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My hand is way up.

Last physical attack-- mind you I have taken precautions since the divorce to not be alone with her-- at xFIL's hunting camp (she invited herself to be the camp cook) in middle of WY... no real way to escape...

xww came and started poking me in the chest in my sleep because she wanted to vent at me. I said it wasn't a good idea to talk when she was like this.

She said, "Right now I hate you so much. I don't know if I am one of those people who will stab you in the night while half asleep because I am so angry."

I agreed to talk. Better the violence than the knife in the chest thing.

If it wasn't real, it would be pretty funny.


Divorced and safer, mostly.


Posts: 803 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Recovery Land
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, October 31st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK, little poll here. How many of you have actually worried a bit about your STBXW killing you in your sleep, or putting little doses of poison in your food, or maybe just adding some lungies to your soup?

Edit: Initial response was a bit too harsh. I'm not qualified in psychiatry. That being said...yes it has crossed my mind.

[This message edited by Mr. Kite at 10:42 PM, October 31st (Sunday)]


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