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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men-Part 6 (Men only)
zombieman
♂ Member
Member # 28996
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, November 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No shit sherlock! As long as she can manipulate you into acquiescence, you aint rockin her oh-so-entitled boat.

Yeah, well I rocked her boat quite a bit this afternoon in an email by basically calling her on her minimal effort and inability to deal with what I am going through in a mature way. I told her she had to fight for this and put in some effort to make me feel safe again. She's currently crashing into the rocks in a big way, her reply. 'I am over it. Go! Goodbye.' She just shuts down. That is her reply to me telling her that I need support, time, patience and for her to own her shit and mend all the damage she has done. I'm not very hopeful at the moment.


Posts: 88 | Registered: Jul 2010
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 7:23 PM, November 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lock her ass out.


ďFate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.Ē

Posts: 7107 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
SourCherryDrops
♂ Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 2:42 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I want a truly remorseful shit owning W, I want a happy life with her and my son but I don't know if that is ever going to happen, I think I will get a W that had her fun, didn't like the impact it had on her life, does feel sorry for me, but will rug sweep if I let her. If I keep pushing for what I want from her, she will walk.

that pretty much exatcly sums up my STBXW.... she's STBX because this time i was not about to rollover and subjugate my own needs to hers. I had already given and given and given to the marriage, i had kept on giving long after she withdrew from it. I dont mind giving more than i recieve, but i do expect it to be reciprocated at least in part, when i finally realised what meager morsals i was being feed i knew it was time to stand up and ask for more.


All affairs are acts of aggression against the BS, which is why the blameshifting and "you have to fix your shit just like I have to fix mine" piece is so essential to the WS.

My answer to this was always simple, "Where I may have failed, I have now paid for it. Those issues are now moot. You took your pound of flesh. Just because you might not like how your method of making me pay turned out doesn't change the fact that you've charged your price and I've now paid it. That bill is null and void."

actually i reckon you over paid, and unless your happy to leave that as a tip youll be wanting some change, still in relationships its folly to think that the accounts can ever truely balance, The 'value' is all subjective anyway.

@zombieman, She might be saying its over, she might be saying goodbye, but until she actually moves out its all just so much moving air escaping her mouth... Id suspect that subconciously (i really dont believe most WW are able to conciously think a strategy like this through) she feels that you are more commited to the M than she is, thus if she threatens to destroy it, you will at a minimum stop demanding what you need and possibly even set to work trying to keep it together, trying to keep her from leaving it, how do you do that? by meeting her needs rather than your own. Its a ploy to get you to stop pushing her out of her comfort zone. Unfortunately many people would rather stubornly follow through on something they said, even if its not what they really want, or what they really meant, just so that they dont have to admit that they were wrong or didnt mean it. Calling her out on this ploy may show it up for what it is, or it may backfire, and she may follow it through to its bitter end.

But until you are prepared to acknowledge that either outcome, each having its own positives and negatives, is still better for you than actually sucumbing to the ploy, then you do not have the power, or the upper hand in this situation. She will continue to use it to manipulate you, after all its worked briliantly up to now, look at the totally fucked up situation she got herself into, but shes still managed to keep everything together, so "she must be doing something right" :puke:

But its perfectly normal to think that keeping the partner at all costs is best for you, I think most of us did this in the begining, although deeply hurt we are still in love, we cling ferociously to our own fantasies about what our WW is really like, what our M could be like, We struggle to admit to ourselves that they are wrong. We see the hurt in our W and the protector the fixer in us wants to make it better. It takes time for us to really accept our new reality.

Brother you need to get to a place where you really know that you will be ok regardless of the outcome, sure you may prefer to stay married but know that even should you D that you will be ok. Know that there will be great hurt, but also great rewards on both paths. Once you can accept that one is not inheriantly better than the other, that they are just different, then you will be free'd from feeling that you have to save the M at all costs. And that is what is required to consistantly call her out when she uses the destruction of the M as a tool to manipulate you.


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
lostcause111
♂ Member
Member # 19109
Default  Posted: 7:04 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SCD great post.

My two cents.

The number one issue in infidelity involving a WW is respect.

If I had found out that my wife was talking to ANY man without my acknowledgement I would confront him and her with some absolute vengence. I would call him direct tell him talk to my wife again *&*& and her. I would unleash some absolute anger.

I will take no BS and this is where respect comes in.

I gave up a loyt of self respect after my WW LTA. I have ZERO more to give. I will also respect myself and not allow anybody ESPECIALLY my wife to walk on me.

She may gets pissed angry herself IDC. In the end I gain respectl.

When us BH have usually given up so much control and power in the realtionship it is natural for them to fight the taking the power back. Its a test.

Despite that I do most everything with a smile.

Just last soap box item.

you have to let go. The only difference between taking BS now and not is simply when the M ends. It will end or cheating will continue if you do not let go and do what you need to do for myself.

Scenario two wifes syas she is done. Well ... that makes my life much easier. 180 time with a smile. I wonder what my buddies are doing tonight. Dont know when i will be home...

Do not get me wrong. I want my family just cannot take any more emmotional abuse to keep it.

Stay strong and grab your balls and man up!


Posts: 934 | Registered: Apr 2008
RKT429SS
♂ Member
Member # 28883
Default  Posted: 8:14 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Iím relatively new here and not yet a member to the Ďmaní club here, but I wonder how much you all really do man up. Or is it all just talk. Once we are all done giving each other fist bumps and high-fives, do we really man up, 180 hard, etc.?

I try, but usually donít. I guess Iím the weak one in the pack. I guess I 'love' my wife and kids to much to distance myself from her.

Good readings from everyone though.

(AhÖsilly post of mine) fuckit, just feeling the need to put a barrel in my mouth right now.


Me - BS 38
Her - WS 37
MOM - coworker,with 2 kids, EA&PA approx. 6 mo
Us Married 10 yrs (together 15 yrs)
1 girl, 1 boy
DDay 3.15.2010
Working on R

Posts: 216 | Registered: Jun 2010
Jimi40
♂ Member
Member # 10909
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RKT, first, you are part of the club. I'm sorry.

Second, yep some of us have manned up. I was abandoned by my FWW. I spent some time feeling sorry for myself, then I went out and fucked my brains out. It's good for the soul!

Third, 180 is part of the healing, whether you R or D.

Fourth, high five me, bro!


You've got nowhere to fall, when your back's to the wall.

Posts: 5524 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Niagara
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

zombie.
..her reply. 'I am over it. Go! Goodbye.' She just shuts down. That is her reply to me telling her that I need support, time, patience and for her to own her shit and mend all the damage she has done.

This shit is pure evil. Its gross manipulation.

Like SCD say. You WW may believe you are more committed to the M than she is. More in love than she is (obviously). This put her in a position of power. And she is now using this power in form of a threat to manipulate you.

She believe that if she pull away you will pursue her. This is more cheating behavior. A sign she is not fixed or getting it or has remorse or has empathy. She is making it all about HER. And isnt that the same action that was the root of her cheating? Was it not all about her? Her *needs* over yours and every one elses?

If you WW is in the WS anger state. And you do a 180. Or take her up on her *Goodbye*. She will then go into scorched earth mode. She will lawyer up and seek to destroy you legally. She will call everyone you both know and spew her litany of how you are a abusive H.

I once hear of a WW in this anger state that accuse her H of beating her. Gave her self bruises to show the police. Got a RO on he H. Which shows up on his record in a back ground check. Nearly cost him his job. Did cost him his house. Did cost him custody of his kids.

All a woman has to do is make the accusation of abuse (or rape even) and the police take it seriously. It can ruin you life. WW when in this state are embodiment of pure evil IMO. So be careful.

Razor


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3084 | Registered: Sep 2007
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Funny how similar the tactics can be, regardless of the woman.

Everytime I push my WW to get off her ass and start carrying her fair share to demonstrate to me that she wants this marriage to work, she balks, then gets downright belligerent. Mean. Maniacal.

She's slowly slowing that shit down. Why? Becuase I dont give a fuck anymore. I dont respond. I dont buy into it. My response? "Sorry you feel that way. How soon can you move out?"

She hasnt moved out (sigh), and she is weighing the only two options she has left. Either shit or get off the pot...


holding out hope
UPDATE: Hope's Dead

Posts: 430 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: CO
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

P.S.

She only has about 35 days or so to start putting forth major effort. I'm moving to another state in just over a month. I dont expect the marriage to be fixed in a month, but I expect to either start seeing major lifting on her part or my girls and I are hitting the road without her.....I'm not holding my breath...

[This message edited by HurtingandLost at 10:03 AM, November 19th (Friday)]


holding out hope
UPDATE: Hope's Dead

Posts: 430 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: CO
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@ RKT

Honestly, every guy on this board faces their own challenges in this shitstorm on a daily basis. Depending on the route you choose to follow, and it is a daily choice, will depend on which timeline you decide to grab your sack and proclaim "the boys are back".

Its not easy. No one here will bullshit you by saying it is, especially the first couple of months. But these guys are all here with advice and support along the way.


holding out hope
UPDATE: Hope's Dead

Posts: 430 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: CO
3yrwait
♂ Member
Member # 29907
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Stay strong Zombie, you are in the right.

I am a nice guy by nature, a thoughtful pushover (or pussy?). But it is those moments that I care least about WW that I get what I want from her.


Me: BH (early 40s)
Her: WW (early 40s)
Married 15 years
1 daughter, under 10
DDay July 2007

Posts: 450 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: 3yrwait
Mighty
♂ Member
Member # 26909
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yup.. They all have their methods. At first, my wife used the anger thing. Then she morphed into something new: Suicidal thoughts. She uses these threats to maintain and excuse herself from jumping in with both feet. (I donít, and her councilor doesnít think sheís really suicidal, just uses that threat as a tool to get me to back off). None the less, it kinda sucks that in the back of my mind I feel guilt for pressuring her, and I have to make sure I have alibiís (sheís also told plenty of others that I intend to kill her) just in case she even follows through...

As for manning up. I usually do. I will be honest in that sometimes I just cave in. Iím not perfect, but I am improving on myself and recognize when I do this. Youíll slip, itís normal, I just strive to make sure I own it when I do instead of trying to excuse myself for my errors.


BS (me) 44 WS (her)43
Married 17yrs, Together 20 yrs
Three children (9-13)
D-Day #1 - 4/11/09 (me).. DD's stopped, she quit talking. Body count: 6 OM, 1 OW. (2 EA's, 1 LTPA, 1 PA, 3 "kisses").

Posts: 629 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Denver
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RKT-took a long while for me to man up,those pesky feelings & shit got in the way, but they are long gone now.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
atsenaotie
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

... but I wonder how much you all really do man up. Or is it all just talk.

Welcome (?) bro'. For me there was a definite learning curve. I had to learn to put my needs up front and use the 180 to focus on me. For most of our M I had been focused on trying to "make" FWW happy. Since I failed at that she found OM who could. After that I had to learn to accept and control anger. I had never real allowed myself to get to anger in my life, that took some practice and resulted in some holes in the drywall initially. Finally, moving out when a boundary was broken taught me I can be OK with her and our DSs and I will survive too.

The best results from man-ing up were not when I beat my chest and laid down the law, but when I determined what was and was not accepable to me, and calmly and confidently took steps to stay in a position where I am satisfyied with my life.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
wonderingbull
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Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

... but I wonder how much you all really do man up. Or is it all just talk.

I definitely agree that it's a learning curve... Early on we don't recognize the mental acrobatics the ww uses to manipulate the situation... I know I was playing oh so niceity nice for about 4 days after dday... After that wasted energy I took action and packed up my shit and moved...

For a while I kept trying to smooth things over and instead of being remorseful she'd just attack with lists of questions for me... She acted pissed until I did a complete about face... She knew I was serious when I told her... "hey bitch! He can have you!"... That's really where the game changed... What I didn't know was that at the time she was setting me up to be the backup plan so she had to back off attacking me...

I kind of equate the process from dday forward for me as a trial by error method... Appeasement didn't work, being attentive didn't work, fixing things about me didn't work... Then bang! I figured out that when I was trying all the things that didn't work with her... Life really was all about me and respecting myself...

When I completely took my hands off the steering wheel of the relationship she freaked out... She showed up at my place unannounced a couple of times and I had to call the police... She stalked me and my friends... Desperate doesn't quite describe what she was doing... It was freaky but it gave me my self respect back...

I do agree with WAL that A's are all about revenge for some percieved wrongs... When her A was going on and I didn't have a clue, she was a mean spiteful bitch on a mission... When I'd ask what's wrong she would haul out some giant list of what a dirtbag I was.... Come to find out, she was the one sucking the real dirtbag's dick (OM)....

When most of us guys confront on dday we don't know how to walk the walk or talk the talk... I see that in JFO all the time... We're wandering around in the dark trying anything to hang on to the ww and the m.... That's usually when our nuts end up in a jar on the shelf...

When we see and experience the utter and complete failure of the initial actions we take we eventually reach for the jar, put our balls back in their rightful place and take control of the only thing we can control... Ourselves...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5893 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 11:56 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Iím relatively new here and not yet a member to the Ďmaní club here, but I wonder how much you all really do man up. Or is it all just talk. Once we are all done giving each other fist bumps and high-fives, do we really man up, 180 hard, etc.?

Don't get me wrong; I love my wife and want to stay married to her but love my sanity even more. For her it's all about being in control. This flaw in her character caused her to fall into eating disorder issues and infidelity.

WW had A's partly because I was too passive. She got her way or else. Why? Because I've always been much more passionate about her than she was about me and had more to lose. She had all the power and control and could do what she wanted. Want to have lunch with other men? Okay. Want to stay out till all hours? Fine. It turns out that she needs definite boundaries because she can't seem to control herself--much like raising a teenager.

You WW may believe you are more committed to the M than she is. More in love than she is (obviously). This put her in a position of power. And she is now using this power in form of a threat to manipulate you.

Exactly! So last Sunday morning she once again pulled out the "SI is bad for our marriage" card. When I didn't agree she announced it was time for us to split up. In the past I would have talked her out of it. This time I suggested we write out a separation agreement that I could have my lawyer look over on Monday. She backpedaled.

I then gave her a list of things she had to work on in order for me to stay. By Sunday night she had agreed. The rest of this week has been spent "spicing up our sex lives" and working on communication issues. I have no illusions that this will last. Even Charlie Brown eventually should have caught on that Lucy would yank the football away at the last moment. It's all part of their sick game.

But it is those moments that I care least about WW that I get what I want from her.

It's not that I don't care, it's that if she gets her way she will destroy our marriage and eventually herself. The best way to show my love for WW is to keep her from doing that. This means lawyering up, not putting up with any more crap, and taking care of myself physically, mentally, and emotionally. Don't know it that's what constitutes "manning up."


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 12:08 PM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It turns out that she needs definite boundaries because she can't seem to control herself--much like raising a teenager...

How many others does this quote apply to? Fits my WW to a T. I tried explaining to her a couple of times pre-Dday, and once since but I married a rock with lips. She doesnt get it, and continues to "explain" how she acts like this "because....."


holding out hope
UPDATE: Hope's Dead

Posts: 430 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: CO
Jimi40
♂ Member
Member # 10909
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This means lawyering up, not putting up with any more crap, and taking care of myself physically, mentally, and emotionally. Don't know it that's what constitutes "manning up."

You're goddam right it does, Mr. Kite!!!

And fucking A to treating them like spoiled little teenie-boppers. It's all about their precious ego's, and their self image, and their need for validation. Here's the scoop, bitch, your ego, just turned you image into a slut, as percieved by others, and the validation is running down your leg!!


You've got nowhere to fall, when your back's to the wall.

Posts: 5524 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Niagara
Mighty
♂ Member
Member # 26909
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here's the scoop, bitch, your ego, just turned you image into a slut, as percieved by others, and the validation is running down your leg!!

OMG... so freakin funny and sadly true at the same time. Thanks for the laugh.


BS (me) 44 WS (her)43
Married 17yrs, Together 20 yrs
Three children (9-13)
D-Day #1 - 4/11/09 (me).. DD's stopped, she quit talking. Body count: 6 OM, 1 OW. (2 EA's, 1 LTPA, 1 PA, 3 "kisses").

Posts: 629 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Denver
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Too damned funny....and accurate!


holding out hope
UPDATE: Hope's Dead

Posts: 430 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: CO
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