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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men-Part 6 (Men only)
Lotsa
♂ Member
Member # 28078
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, December 22nd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why can't I date?

You're a grown man and can do whatever you want. But, (leaving aside the issues already raised) as you are now acutely aware, the fact that you are in/have been in a new relationship prior to D has led to an untimely backlash from your WW during a delicate time when you are trying to negotiate with your WW about a property settlement and custody arrangements for your DD.

Even if her primary issue with your e-mails are the venting ones and not so much the onces revealing your new relationship, it seems as if the primary reason for her hacking into your account in the first place was because she suspected more was going on than you had been telling her.

It's very difficult where you have made the decision long-ago dismissing any prospect of R and your WW has only recently raised it (whether her reasons are genuine or not). Especially when she has seemingly conveniently forgotten the extent of her betrayal and the devasatation she caused.

JMO, but I would ramp up your 180/NC efforts and to the extent that she raises it again, I would remind her calmly but firmly that your M is over, your venting to whomever is a consequence of her choices in having an A and that you are moving ahead with the D as quickly as possible in order to bring stability to your DD's life.


Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2010
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 6:26 PM, December 22nd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Got to ditto Lotsa, too.

That is some great advice. In the disposition of your divorce, it's in your best interest to keep your WW docile, and her sudden urge to reconcile and play nice is a weapon you can use to your advantage. If she's agreeable, she's less likely to raise a shitstorm over issues that are likely to cost you money.

It might be in your best interest to explain the angry/hurt e-mails as part of your process that are now in the past, you regret some of the "unfair" things you might have said, blah, blah. Mend fences, in other words.

Don't cut off your nose to spite your face, you know? Swallowing a bit of the shit sandwich today could leave you in a better position with regards to custody/finances down the road. Always better to go for the long term gains.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
jasper
♂ Member
Member # 28168
Default  Posted: 6:46 PM, December 22nd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mighty, Lotsa, WAL, fair points made, all of you. It is too soon for me to be in a relationship.

I have fucked up by dragging my feet on the D. I was ready to do it over the summer, and got hung up on the cost, the complication, and, frankly, the effort required. WW and I were both trying to figure out how to manage our lives separately and take care of DD at the same time, and Divorce seemed like an additional burden we didn't need. Mistake. Then inertia sets in.

The woman I'm seeing began as a friendship/NSA sex situation. We have both been hit recently with traumas. (Hers was actually quite a bit worse than mine). And we've acknowledged that we're both damaged goods right now, but also both need to feel alive every once in a while.

Our relationship exists entirely outside of real life. Almost like an affair does, but neither of us are attached to spouses. I don't know how we could ever integrate this relationship into our real lives.

WW threw a wrench in the works last month when she suddenly became interested in my private life. I am not hung up on her, and I do not believe she truly wants to R. However, I've really been thrown by the possibility that there could ever be an R. It was never an option until now. So, I have stopped to give it some thought. Even though I don't think R is possible, the fact that it's been put out there has complicated things.

Anyway. Not arguing with you guys. I should have moved ahead with D long ago. I have set the date, made the appointment, and will be at my lawyer's with retainer in hand on Jan 4.

What a great way to mark the end of the holiday season.


Posts: 696 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: New York
jasper
♂ Member
Member # 28168
Default  Posted: 6:47 PM, December 22nd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, and Lotsa, love your quote. Great band, great song.

Posts: 696 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: New York
Mighty
♂ Member
Member # 26909
Default  Posted: 6:50 PM, December 22nd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What a great way to mark the end of the holiday season

Naw, don't look at it that way. This time last year I was planning the divorce, including one last big family vacation (a cruise) to end it for the kids on a happy note. My mantra was filing would be a great way to start a new year and put the worst year of my life behind me.


BS (me) 44 WS (her)43
Married 17yrs, Together 20 yrs
Three children (9-13)
D-Day #1 - 4/11/09 (me).. DD's stopped, she quit talking. Body count: 6 OM, 1 OW. (2 EA's, 1 LTPA, 1 PA, 3 "kisses").

Posts: 629 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Denver
jasper
♂ Member
Member # 28168
Default  Posted: 7:00 PM, December 22nd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mighty, I don't disagree with you. I just wish I had done it before, when I was angrier. I've been on my own for 8 months. It's about time I make it official.

Posts: 696 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: New York
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 8:15 PM, December 22nd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now here's a guy that's totally rolling the dice. He files without a lawyer, asks for spousal support, and wants her to pay any future attorney costs.

Landon Donovan -- World Cup Star Files For Divorce

U.S. soccer superstar and World Cup hero -- has filed for divorce from his wife Bianca Kajlich ... and get this .... he filed without a lawyer!

In documents filed in L.A. County Superior Court -- and obtained by TMZ -- Donovan cited irreconcilable differences. According to the docs, the two had separated back in 2009.

Here's the shocking part -- according to the docs, Donovan is seeking spousal support from Bianca ... and he also wants her to pay for his attorney's fees.

FYI -- Bianca is an actress on the show, "Rules of Engagement."

The couple married back in 2006 -- they have no kids together.

Landon famously blew a kiss to Bianca after he scored the heroic game winning goal in the 2010 World Cup match against Algeria.

UPDATE: We just got a joint statement from Landon and Bianca: "We remain the closest of friends and will always be important parts of each other's lives."


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
Blueeyedfella
♂ Member
Member # 29944
Default  Posted: 8:32 PM, December 22nd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WW threw a wrench in the works last month when she suddenly became interested in my private life. I am not hung up on her, and I do not believe she truly wants to R. However, I've really been thrown by the possibility that there could ever be an R. It was never an option until now. So, I have stopped to give it some thought. Even though I don't think R is possible, the fact that it's been put out there has complicated things.

I find myself nodding emphatically when I read your posts. Everything - your timeline, age, how you and your WW interact, etc. This part in particular resonates with me. I've been separated from my WW since April (she moved out in June) and I've been doing fine with my 180. A few times, my WW has called me (usually drunk) saying what a mistake she's made, etc. etc. She's with the OH and the guy is an ahole and even she sees her life spinning out of control. I hate seeing it and I also hate it whenever she brings up the R. It confuses us (people like you and me) b/c we've managed to do our 180, make ourselves happy, and the moment our WW brings up R, it brings us back to this weird thing we have called M. It's a harsh reminder that this is our reality and we're gonna be stuck in it until we move forward with D. Perhaps it also has to do with the fact that we are procrastinating the decision of D and are hesitant to do it b/c we're not 100% sure, even thought we're 95%. KWIM?

Good luck with the lawyer.


Me: BH (Mid 30s)
Her: WW (Mid 30s)
Married 10 years, together 15.
2 kids under 4.
DDay: Jan-2010
4 false Rs with varying degrees of "trying" - same result
Dec-started mediation process.

Posts: 250 | Registered: Oct 2010
jasper
♂ Member
Member # 28168
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, December 22nd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I get it BEF. We're in a similar spot. I did so much work to figure out how to live life on my own, as I'm sure you have. Even though I've reached a place where I know how to do it without her, I think of our DD, and the history we have. What a waste, to give up on a relationship that has taken up most of my adult life, and rob my DD of the complete family she needs.

But, they left. We didn't. And I don't know if my DD would be well served by the Monday morning relationship I could try to cobble together with my WW.

The trust isn't there anymore. And, at least in my case, the trust isn't there for WW either.

Are our kids better off in a broken family, or in a patched up relationship where neither parent trusts the other one?

What I've realized now is, we both had a hand in the demise of our marriage, she totally fucked it up by cheating, and every day I don't make a decision, I continue to make the problem worse by prolonging it.

And I know it was in response to her cheating, but I've spun out into a full-on mid-life crisis. No motorcycle yet, but that's just because I live in a place where homeowners' taxes are crazy, and I need to keep this house.

All we can do is try to keep our lives as balanced as possible, and minimize the damage these WW's can do to us.

Thanks for the support, brother, and I hope you are hanging in there.


Posts: 696 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: New York
Blueeyedfella
♂ Member
Member # 29944
Default  Posted: 9:21 PM, December 22nd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's been the hardest part for me, jasper. We've been married for 10 years, and been together for 15 years. That's a big chunk of our life right there and a lot of memories, connections, etc. I still talk to her family and they are still very warm for me, wish me the best, etc. In fact, my MIL was visiting last weekend with my FIL. They saw the grandkids and my WW told me that as my MIL left, she told me WW that she hopes I meet someone good. I kind of lol'd inside but also took it as a sign as to where I was headed.

As for the broken home part, it's just as hard. Needless to say, sharing the kids at 2 different homes is not exactly the life I had envisioned, but it is the life NONE of us has envisioned. Just have to make the best of it. Will D and having 2 separate homes for the kids be tough? Yep! But, based on the little I've read of your situation, you and your WW seem to be civil with each other and have the kid's best interest at heart. That's where my WW and I are and from what I've read, this is a HUGE plus to have even in a D.


Me: BH (Mid 30s)
Her: WW (Mid 30s)
Married 10 years, together 15.
2 kids under 4.
DDay: Jan-2010
4 false Rs with varying degrees of "trying" - same result
Dec-started mediation process.

Posts: 250 | Registered: Oct 2010
jasper
♂ Member
Member # 28168
Default  Posted: 9:47 PM, December 22nd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BEF, dude! Good for you. Approval of the in-laws is so supportive. My MIL has been a godsend. We've never discussed the situation, but she has been a constant presence in my house (she lives close by), and has made it clear that she loves me, and that my DD is her priority. No discussion. No chosen sides.

What is your custody arrangement? My DD is the only child in her class with 2 residences. And, looking at her school directory, there were fewer than 10 oher families like ours in the whole book.


Posts: 696 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: New York
Blueeyedfella
♂ Member
Member # 29944
Default  Posted: 10:03 PM, December 22nd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My MIL and I contacted each other a bunch esp at the beginning of the S. She just didn't understand my WW and in all honesty, my WW's behavior was a complete shock to all. She comes from a big family - no dramas, very loving family, etc. Just doesn't compute.

As for living arrangements, my WW is in a townhouse, most of the time with OH. I am still in the house and the kids (2) are with me most of the time. My wife gets them 2-3 nights a week and I get them the rest of the time. I have some babysitters I use so I can get out once a week while they're at home with me. We aren't legally S, so we maintain the main house address as the main address. I suspect if we go down the route of D, we will look to do some sort of joint custody, 50/50 split, or something close to that. And I'm sure similar to you, the mortgage is pretty substantial so selling the house would also be in the cards eventually.

[This message edited by Blueeyedfella at 10:05 PM, December 22nd (Wednesday)]


Me: BH (Mid 30s)
Her: WW (Mid 30s)
Married 10 years, together 15.
2 kids under 4.
DDay: Jan-2010
4 false Rs with varying degrees of "trying" - same result
Dec-started mediation process.

Posts: 250 | Registered: Oct 2010
jasper
♂ Member
Member # 28168
Default  Posted: 10:28 PM, December 22nd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BEF, I look at your story, and I see mine without the out. Regardless of WW, what would your ideal situation be? How far is that from what you have now?


Posts: 696 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: New York
SourCherryDrops
♂ Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 2:48 AM, December 23rd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I too thought I would love to watch it if it ever happened, but no, it is horrible to watch her go to the bottom.

I think the desire to see a WS fail, to experience their own pain is best left in the realm of fantasy... ie it might be nice to think about their world crashing down around them, but to really watch it happen, when you have common children that will be just as affected by the outcome as the WS.... nah thats something i dont want to ever have to watch.

Which is why im glad that my STBXWW doesnt seem to be persuing any deep relationship with any of her AP's... and why im saddend that she seems to have stopped her IC. I think the chances are pretty high that she will end up in another relationship sometime and the same thing will happen, and further damage my kids.

Why can't I date?

I personally hold the same view as WAL, that dating is fine after S and when its been stated that the M is heading for D. For me there is a clear distincition between the legal M that persists until the D terminates it, and the emotional M that may exist long before a legal M is entered into and ends when at least one partner announces the intention to D.

Jasper i dont think you have anything to be embarredsed about with your new relationship, but how youve handled it with your STBXW does sort of imply that your not really comfortable letting her know. In future instead of denying it... which lets face it is gaslighting, just state firmly that it is none of her business anymore and you dont want to discuss it with her. It wont stop her wanting to know, or being backhanded in finding out the information, but it does not compromise you.

amoungst one of the many lessons ive taken from this whole shitstorm is that, Once you start to compromise yourself its all to easy to find yourself on a path that spirals out of control, until eventually you find that you dont recognise the person in the mirror anymore.

I like who i see in my mirror, i dont want to loose him.


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
Blueeyedfella
♂ Member
Member # 29944
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, December 23rd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BEF, I look at your story, and I see mine without the out. Regardless of WW, what would your ideal situation be? How far is that from what you have now?

I don't think I have an "out" like you see it. I think we're in similar positions. We are going through S, doing a 180, while the WW drops hints at possible R although deep down, you and I know this is not realistic. We both fear the finality of D and that's why we've been procrastinating. Heck, by contacting a lawyer, you've taken bigger steps than I have!

As for where I envision/want things. At this point, an ideal situation is D (just too much pain has been caused to go back - and besides, WW has chosen someone else) and we co-parent the kids and we remain "friends"/civil to each other.


Me: BH (Mid 30s)
Her: WW (Mid 30s)
Married 10 years, together 15.
2 kids under 4.
DDay: Jan-2010
4 false Rs with varying degrees of "trying" - same result
Dec-started mediation process.

Posts: 250 | Registered: Oct 2010
blue day
♂ Member
Member # 25049
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, December 23rd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

haven`t been on site for a few months,trying to get my life in order by following the 180.so far so good.got myself fit,just got promoted this week to senior management so in a better place than july `09 D Day.however still living under same roof as ww has made two failed attempts to move out.at staff xmas party one of juniors,a serious ladies man,remarked that a recent recruit was seriously attracted to me.the thought had crossed my mind butshe`s married and my ww also works there.the ww was not at party.although i will do nothing about this extremely attractive other i still feel chuffed to be the focus.my marital situation is secret which makes things even more complicated.what i secretly enjoy however was my ww asking innocently,i think,if this woman is better looking than she.i said that she is 10 yrs younger and 20lbs lighter.she has since dropped 12lbs.i don`t care about ww as liars remain liars but it has restored my confidence.now how do i get back out there without a wingman?


me 50 bs
her 50 ws 3 yr A.
DS,19, DD,15.
currently S,its over.


M 25 yrs
together 28yrs.
my first and only love,it sucks!


Posts: 66 | Registered: Aug 2009
shockedandstuned
♂ Member
Member # 27153
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, December 24th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jasper, Sorry I have not been on the site since I moved out in June. i had to make a break for a while to see if I could stand on my own. I am sorry to hear you did not file immediatley when you were so angry back in April. But I understand. I have yet to file for the big D for money reasons, I had to file Bankruptcy first which just Got done. Will make the D part easier, no bills to split.
As for dating, I have begun seeing someone myself and it has made things much easier. I am learning to trust again and some of my anger is dissapating. Make no commitments just enjoy the holidays.


There were three of us in this marriage, so it was a bit crowded.So I moved out and moved on and I am happier for it.

BS (me) 47
WW 40
1 son 11
D Day 23 Dec 09
Admitted to Affair 17 Jan 10
April 08 told her I want a Divorce
June 2010 Moved


Posts: 574 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Massachusetts
jasper
♂ Member
Member # 28168
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, December 24th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shocked, it's good to hear your update. Sorry about the bankruptsy filing, but glad it will simplify the D for you. Great that you have a new woman in your life.

How is your custody situation working?

[This message edited by jasper at 1:19 PM, December 24th (Friday)]


Posts: 696 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: New York
jasper
♂ Member
Member # 28168
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, December 24th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've made a decision that may cause me to lose all credibility on this board, and a decision that goes against everything I've been telling myself for 8 months.

My WW, after the email break-in incident, came over to pick up a box of DD's arts & crafts stuff for a school project. I was here and she apologized for the incredible violation (hacking into my email), and we started talking about her therapy, and some of the realizations she's made. She also mentioned that, in reading some of the emails she hacked, she got a glimpse of my feelings that she hadn't seen in person, when we spoke.

Anyway, it was more genuine remorse, real apology, acknowledgement of her issues, and willingness to change than I've ever seen from her.

She asked me if I'd ever be willing to consider giving us another chance, and I felt hopeful for the first time since d-day.

Anyway, I told her I'd be willing to start, very slowly, seeing if we might be able to work it out. We'll need to stay in our separate residences for a long time, and we need to start MC, because there is serious work to do.

My primary concern is my DD. If my WW and I are both willing to work it out (ETA: I now have Public Enemy "Brothers gonna work it out" running through my head on repeat), then we might have a chance to give my DD a complete family again.

Anyway, maybe it's the holiday spirit affecting me, or maybe it's my WW's reaction to what she found in my emails (holy shit -- I'm considering working things out with the woman who hacked into my emails?), maybe I just need stronger meds. This could go down in flames next week, or in a month, but I'm interested to see if we're capable of doing this.

The truly painful part of this is that I had to share this decision with the woman I'm seeing. Our relationship started out as NSA sex, but, based on how shitty the break-up felt for both of us, it had clearly grown into something bigger.

Of course, she was totally supportive, and happy that we might have a chance to build our family up again, even though she was sad about what that means between me and her. And that just showed me what a good woman she is, and made it hurt even more to end things.

It's weird. I still feel so much anger and frustration toward my WW. And I know she's crazy. She fucking hacked into my email. But this is the first time I've ever felt confident, since d-day, that she truly loves me, is truly remorseful, and is dedicated to fixing herself, and working with me to fix us.

I just feel like it's an opportunity I can't pass up.

Now. All that said, you can all start a pool to see who can guess what date I'll post my first drunken rant about what a huge mistake I made.

In the meantime, Merry Christmas! I've got to go hit the gym, the liquor store, and then wrap a few more stocking stuffers for DD and the dog.

[This message edited by jasper at 1:47 PM, December 24th (Friday)]


Posts: 696 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: New York
shockedandstuned
♂ Member
Member # 27153
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, December 24th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jasper so far so good on all fronts. I get to see my son when I want its great.
As far as your decision, remember this is your decision..... no one will judge nor does your credibilty go down with me. We are each in our own hell and must do what we must to survive. Its only right to let the person you are invoved in know what is going on no holds barred. Please keep me informed fee free to PM.


There were three of us in this marriage, so it was a bit crowded.So I moved out and moved on and I am happier for it.

BS (me) 47
WW 40
1 son 11
D Day 23 Dec 09
Admitted to Affair 17 Jan 10
April 08 told her I want a Divorce
June 2010 Moved


Posts: 574 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Massachusetts
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