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User Topic: Betrayed Men-Part 6 (Men only)
shyguy
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Member # 18281
Default  Posted: 7:57 AM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my ex had no close friends after we were married. She spent a lot of time with her mother. Her mother was/is a serial cheater.


Love stinks yeah yeah(J. Geils)

Posts: 5866 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: tulsa
Merlin
♂ Member
Member # 30221
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for BHs: how many of the WW out there have minimal support network? I have a theory about WWs and declining amount of friends over the year (to the point where there's almost no geniuine friends) or little to no family in the area - before the A starts.
blueyedfella,

Yes and no. We had a narrow group of friends of the marriage, other married couples and those we met through our children. We spent most of our time with her family (mine lives far from here). Her family was everything to her, more of a clan. We spent nearly every weekend with them or had house parties with a mix of our friends and her family.

This all changed as she moved towards the affair. She began country line dancing. That morphed into a new life and (hard to tell exactly when) her lowlife OM.

Since then, she's burned every bridge to her former life except her family. She sees none of those friends we had during the marriage. She hangs with a real loser crowd from the bar she damn near lives in.

As for her family, she see them and they say nothing about destroying our 25-year marriage and her family. That's the 'blood is thicker than water' thing I guess. The few times anyone (her mother) said anything, she blew up and threatened to just leave. So now they just sort of have this 'whatever'
attitude.


"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D. H. Lawrence

Her: WW/56 Me: BS/62, 24yrs M
3 great kids, now 22, 20, 17 b,b,g
D-Day 8/14/08, D 1/13/11


Posts: 1102 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: East Coast
impastit
♂ Member
Member # 28951
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"This all changed as she moved towards the affair. She began country line dancing. That morphed into a new life and (hard to tell exactly when) her lowlife OM." Yes Merlin!

Since then, she's burned every bridge to her former life except her family. She sees none of those friends we had during the marriage. She hangs with a real loser crowd from the bar she damn near lives in.

My xWW exactly this. Even the country music thing. And fishing, she likes fishing now. FOM/BF is big fisher guy, now her too. She wouldn't go fishing with me once in ten years.
All of this is the morphing she does to get a new supply of willing victims.

She has places she dumps the kids to enable her party life style. She lets SS14 run the streets a lot. Of course he's running with the wrong crowd now. She doesn't seem to care about that too much. I get DD9 a lot because of this, I'm ok with that.

[This message edited by impastit at 9:48 AM, December 28th (Tuesday)]


"Get over it." Classic. Classic sociopath!

DDay 4/6/10 Filed DDay, smelled it coming, again
She moved to her happy place 5/2/10
D final 11/18/10
Thank God I got the dog.


Posts: 569 | Registered: Jul 2010
Merlin
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Member # 30221
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

impastit,

Yes. It seems we all have the same story. Not word for word. But each story rhymes with the one before and after it.


"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D. H. Lawrence

Her: WW/56 Me: BS/62, 24yrs M
3 great kids, now 22, 20, 17 b,b,g
D-Day 8/14/08, D 1/13/11


Posts: 1102 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: East Coast
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 9:35 PM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Guys, how do you spot a cheater?

I ask because I'm near ready to dive into the dating pool. Out of curiosity I've surfed some of the free dating sites, and am discouraged by my reaction. Whenever I see someone I find physically attractive, I figure to myself that she was divorced because she cheated.

Apparently, a large percentage of divorces are due to infidelity, and I figure that an unattractive woman would have less opportunity to cheat. So, mathematically, the odds of an attractive, divorced woman being a cheater seem uncomfortably high.

How would one approach this subject, and would you trust the answer you received? In other words, how do you tag a cheater?

[This message edited by OnceInALifetime at 9:36 PM, December 28th (Tuesday)]


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
jasper
♂ Member
Member # 28168
Default  Posted: 10:08 PM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good question OIAL. I've gotta say, I think along the same lines you do. But I'm pretty sure we're both wrong. I'm not in the dating pool, but I do spend a ton of time thinking about who the cheaters are and who the non-cheaters are.

One of the things my WW has said to me recently is that, once word got out about her affair, people came out of the woodwork (women) revealing that they had either had affairs or been betrayed. And, it doesn't sound like there was much of a pattern when it comes to looks, personality, or anything really tangible.

I'm eager to know how one does actually spot a cheater.


Posts: 696 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: New York
HurtingandLost
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Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 1:36 AM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@ OIAL and Jasper -

I have found myself thinking about this very thing MANY times over the past few months.

At times, I see an attractive woman and find myself wondering if she would cheat on me too. I married a FUGLY one the first time becuase I thought she was good people but she was a serial cheater.

I married an attractive one the second time around but she cheated a couple of times too (only admits to one).

BUT...


In thinking ( A LOT) over the past few months there ARE similarities:

1) Low self esteem
2) Overbearing mothers
3) Straight shooting, fuck you if you dont like what I'm saying Father's
4) MMMM...permiscuous teenage years
5) know it fucking al personalities
6) Seriously irresponsible
7) selfish....no matter what, they're wants come before my kids or I's needs
8) They manipulate...most likely using sex as a tool

Just my experience with two cheats....


holding out hope
UPDATE: Hope's Dead

Posts: 430 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: CO
Blueeyedfella
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Member # 29944
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hurting: good list start. I would add impulsive to that list. My WW is very much an impulsive person even though she's extremely smart. Impulsive shopper, impulsive when it comes to most aspects of her life. I used to think it was a neat personality trait, now I know what the downside is.


Me: BH (Mid 30s)
Her: WW (Mid 30s)
Married 10 years, together 15.
2 kids under 4.
DDay: Jan-2010
4 false Rs with varying degrees of "trying" - same result
Dec-started mediation process.

Posts: 250 | Registered: Oct 2010
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:51 AM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I would be able to greatly increase my odds of spotting a cheater since dday. On the downside, I think I would also greatly diminish the possible partners. Does the person self-affirm, or are they inclined to be mad because someone made them mad. Does he or she take criticism well, or does it devastate him or her, or mean nothing? FOO issues like SAb survivor or ACOH? History of cheating. Viewing you as a KISA? Apparent need to be liked, appreciated, and found attractive by OM. Conflict avoider, or willing to openly discuss feelings and issues?

Based on my experience, these are the sorts of things I would look for. Not saying any of these gaurantee a cheater, but they would be redflags, and important issues to address for the good of any relationship.

--Ats

eta: codependency

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 7:57 AM, December 29th (Wednesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
jasper
♂ Member
Member # 28168
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nodding my head as I read these posts. Insecurity, a need for external validation, irresponsibility, impulsiveness. Lots of FOO shit: mom widowed early (age 30), never remarried, permanently depressed, overbearing older sister (functions in dad role occasionally). Mom always takes sister's side because she's more fucked up, which violates WW's whole "choose me" requirement. Ats, what does KISA mean?

Posts: 696 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: New York
countryboy
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Member # 30542
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

New guy here on the forum but not new to the WS scene.

My story is no different than most on here other than I have been through this mess twice. The first A was in 04 with a family friend. I was blindsided by what I found when I got suspicious. She never admitted either EA or PA with the man she was calling (20 times per day) and meeting out of town on so called shopping trips. Instead she lied and blamed me for not being there for her. She went NC and we went into R with no MC and everything seemed great till I got suspicious again in October of 09 of her and a very close friend of mine. I was seeing the same red flags as the last time. I waited and gathered all the evidence I thought I needed to make her admit what she was doing. I confronted her in March of 10 after she had the guts to ask me if it was ok to spend the night with this guy with my daughter after an out of town trip to a concert.

She never admitted to anything even after I showed here all the evidence. She went NC. She did agree to some boundaries. No more male friends, no more face book, no more going out of town without me knowing. Basically full transparency. We started MC every week in April and still going. The transparency has fogged over and know she is telling me I am not her father so I have no right to tell her what she can and cannot do.

Now here is where I need advice. About 10 years ago she noticed this guy showing interest in her. She tells me about it. I tell her point blank stay away from him because I know he is trying to get in her pants. Well guess who I find on her e-mail last week. Same dude. I confront her and she explains she was just exchanging jokes and I will admit I did not see anything out of the way but why in the heck does she exchange anything with this guy after I tell her to stay away from him.

Now we are right back where we started before MC. I am in full detective mode. I am having triggers from last two A’s worse than ever. She even had the nerve to ask me if I was going to ruin his life like I had ruined the first two OM. I did and do not regret causing those two OM major family and financial issues.

I am beginning to think she is broken in some way that makes her do this. I think I am tired of trying to fix her. She admits she was a whore before I married her and if I had known about all the partners she had I would have had second thoughts about M but here I am 18 years later with two wonderful children not knowing which end is up. Thanks for reading.


BS- me
WS- her
M- 18 years
DD1- 7/04
DD2- 3/10
DD3- 2/11

Posts: 38 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Texas
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:49 AM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats, what does KISA mean?

Knight in Shining Armor

I was FWW's KISA, her prize. I was the one who was going to make everything OK. I was stable, good job, intelligent, fun, etc. She was looking to me to make her life good. After we married and she still felt anger, anxiety, depression, she blamed me for not loving her and not making her feel better. She based how she felt on how she perceived people treated her.

I feel into this trap. I really enjoyed the me I saw reflected in FWW's eyes. She adored me when we were dating. I was perfect (should have been a red flag). I felt very validated.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Guys, how do you spot a cheater?

I'd say any human.

WW had catholic upbringing, her folks were onlies, M'd until death. Deeply in love til the end. Buried in the same grave.

My folks never slept in the same room, Dad was WH, etc etc. Dad M'd OW immediately after Mom died.

She cheated(also cheated on her 1st H), I have not.

countryboy, my WW does exactly the same thing-lather rinse repeat

[This message edited by 64fleet at 9:03 AM, December 29th (Wednesday)]


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

countryboy,

It takes two to R, your WW is not involved in trying to R, she is rugsweeping.

I think I am tired of trying to fix her.

Good, because you can't. If she is not willing to do in interal work and self-reflection to determine why her boundaries are so poor, why she has such a need for attention and affirmation from OM, she will stay broken.

What are you willing to accept countryboy? What are you boundaries, and what are your consequnces if she violates them? Are you willing to accept your M as it has been?

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'll look at it from another angle, how do you spot a woman least likely to cheat on you?

Some verses from the Bible(Proverbs 31)
"Who can find a virtuous and capable wife?
She is more precious than rubies.
Her husband can trust her,
and she will greatly enrich his life.
She brings him good, not harm,
all the days of her life.

She is energetic and strong,
a hard worker.
She makes sure her dealings are profitable; her lamp burns late into the night.
She extends a helping hand to the poor and opens her arms to the needy.

She is clothed with strength and dignity, and she laughs without fear of the future.
When she speaks, her words are wise, and she gives instructions with kindness.
She carefully watches everything in her household
and suffers nothing from laziness.

Her children stand and bless her. Her husband praises her:
“There are many virtuous and capable women in the world,
but you surpass them all!”

Charm is deceptive, and beauty does not last; but a woman who fears the Lord will be greatly praised. Reward her for all she has done. Let her deeds publicly declare her praise."

I am beginning to think she is broken in some way that makes her do this. I think I am tired of trying to fix her.

You may have hit on it there, countryboy. As a veteran of over 25 years of marriage with a still-broken WW, I can tell you from personal experience that we cannot repair a broken wife(at least not mine). All we can do is deal with our own brokenness. This lyric by Pink Floyd from 'The Wall' pretty much sums it up.

"All alone, or in two's,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.

And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad bugger's wall."


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
longsadstory1952
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Member # 29048
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jasper, I come late to the party, but I advise extreme caution. Start by going back and rereading your posts of the last few months. 30 days ago you were describing your WW as a near psycho, and thinking she was just looking to R because she can't lose the control. If I read your post right, after 8 months, on the strength of one conversation, you are wavering. Obviously, that's your privilege, but the pain you have exhibited over the last 8 months has been palpable. She reads your emails and "now" she sees what she has done and suddenly gets it? Be very careful here.

Posts: 357 | Registered: Jul 2010
countryboy
♂ New Member
Member # 30542
Default  Posted: 1:36 PM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ATS, thanks for the feedback.
As far as boundaries I have given up on them. She cannot keep any. She will follow them for a while and then go right back to her old ways. Example: MC tells her she must notify me when she is traveling to other towns because this is a huge trigger for me because this is how she did her hookups last A. I call her last week at lunch. She has traveled 4 hours to go shopping with no call to say hey I am going out of town. Another boundary was no more going out alone. She calls two weeks ago and wants to know if she can go to a house party alone. I asked her who was putting it on and she said she did not remember their name but remembered where it was at. She did not go because I nutted up. There are so many other issues with her I cannot list them all. She is being treated for BPD and ADD.

My boundaries have been walked on, sh*t on and anything else she could do to them. This is going to sound bad but sometime I wish she would find some poor fool to take her off my hands. I am to the point I could care less what she does as long as my children are not involved. I just can’t fight the battles anymore. It takes to much time away from my children. The worst part is I still love her.


BS- me
WS- her
M- 18 years
DD1- 7/04
DD2- 3/10
DD3- 2/11

Posts: 38 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Texas
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

countryboy,

I can empathize. While I do not believe that my FWW is bpd, she definitely has (had?) some of the traits; black and white thinking, projecting, cutting, etc. When she broke a boundary for me last September, I moved out. Like you, I had enough. That seemed to have an impact on FWW, and she has been attending IC reguarly since then, and is making improvement on her issues. The book Walking on Eggshells was recomended for me, and it helped me understand the dynamics while initially scaring any hope for the future out of me. Have you read that? It may give you some insights.

I have always loved my wife, but during the time I moved out I learned I could live without her.

Best Wishes,

Ats

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 11:58 AM, December 30th (Thursday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, December 30th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is going to sound bad but sometime I wish she would find some poor fool to take her off my hands

don't we all? The day after dday I loaded up some of WW's stuff in the back of my truck, & offered to drive her to his house. Seems that his W didn't want that to happen.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
countryboy
♂ New Member
Member # 30542
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, December 30th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

64Fleet
I tried that to but last OM would not have her. He told me he was trying to R with his XW and did not want to complicate that. Guess who my next phone call was to. His XW. Rocked his world.

The OM was a close friend of mine. I supported him through his divorce. At first I would invite him to dinner because I felt he was not eating right and drinking too much. Then my wife started inviting him without me knowing. I would get home from work and he is setting in my recliner drinking my beer. Then they started hanging together meeting for breakfast before work. And the rest is history.

What gets me is how much I over looked during the A. I get real mad at myself for not catching on sooner. The worst one was her ringtone on her phone for him when he called. It was the song by Nickel Back called I FIGURED YOU OUT. The song from what I can tell is about a guy getting a BJ. I had heard several times before but I never had put two and two together.

I had a long talk with WW again about her actions and what they were doing to me and our R and with great skill WW turned it all into my fault. Same old stuff. I am working too much to provide her with just about anything she desires. I am spying on her all the time when I ask where she is going. I informed her I would not ask where she was going or where she had been anymore because I had given up. We are scheduled for MC next week but I really do not think I need to waste another dime on this crap.


BS- me
WS- her
M- 18 years
DD1- 7/04
DD2- 3/10
DD3- 2/11

Posts: 38 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Texas
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