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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS- Part 5
LisaBrandNew
♀ Member
Member # 30522
Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, February 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hufi - God help me, those songs tore me apart. You are right, if those songs don't get him to open up, then he is elsewhere. More likely though, he may be too damaged. I know he loves me, but it has become so mangled. He is one repressed puppy, so gut wrenching songs may be the only way to break down the walls. I will have him stop by tonight. A little worried, but at least I will know. Deepest gratitude to you, Hufi.


Finally living the life I was meant to live.

Posts: 806 | Registered: Dec 2010
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, February 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

socrates179~
How do you KNOW that you wont have another affair again?
for a multitude of reasons...like mactruck, I'll list them:

* I am aware of my addiction and stay active in recovery
* My faith in God protects me
* I never, ever want to be the cause of so much pain & devastation
* I know and have boundaries
* I know my self worth and embrace it - I no longer need external validation.
* I respect myself, my family, my H and my M far too much to disrespect all of them like that


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5528 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
LisaBrandNew
♀ Member
Member # 30522
Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, February 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MJ and Hufi - your spouses are so lucky to have you. I just spoke with my husband. I asked him to come over, listen to a song. He said that he didn't leave me to have an affair, he denies the EA, he blames the marriage for leaving and cheating. I told him I would have tried, that I prayed that he would get "it." The marriage had issues but nothing that justifies this - he can't look inward. It is not in him. I told him that without real remorse, he is still disconnected from himself and the damage he has done. Then he said (robotically), "I am sorry, but .." Still blaming the marriage. He said he tried to talk to me (which he didn't), but still doesn't see that the marriage is not the issue. He denies the EA before leaving, says the SA started after he left me (he told me he was in love with her the day he left, 750 texts over 4 days before he left), but doesn't even seem to know what constitutes an EA. He is so messed up. It is sad because I really do love him and would have tried, but this is beyond me now. I don't think he will listen to the songs. I am going to go ahead and schedule the mediation. Crazy the damage parents can do to their children.


Finally living the life I was meant to live.

Posts: 806 | Registered: Dec 2010
nlovemyfamily
♀ Member
Member # 15258
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, February 4th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How much of this betrayal is to wipe away or escape from the past self- doubts and self reflected failures for a clean slate minus old spouse and all relations attached to that spouse? My ExH said many times in his early betrayal, "when I think of us and our marriage it is with a smile, I want what we had for 30 years with her"!!! Crazy thinking and avoidant personality???? They can't handle the truth about their self reflected failings so they go toward someone who doesn't know their history good or bad. I still can't wrap my head around this type of thinking or behavior. Especially when the WS loses more than spouse, they lose kids, finances,security, integrity and long invested history which would have reaped rewards in the long haul!!! He lost 3 loving adult kids who previous to his betrayal would want to model his giving personality and brag to their friends about their Dad. Why throw this blessing away???

Posts: 415 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: nj
woundedspouse
♀ Member
Member # 16657
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, February 4th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Please help me understand how he feels he has done all of the work necessary to come up with his why.

Almost 3 1/2years past d day and he finally know s why.........


drum roll please.......


Because he wanted to.


Yes that's it.

He does not understand why I feel this is a surface answer and a cop out. He does not know why I would question the effort put into figuring out the why.

[This message edited by woundedspouse at 2:49 PM, February 4th (Friday)]


Wounded Spouse
ME - 41 BS
HIM 51 WS
Married 2/93 3 beautiful children
DDay #1 8-26-07 DDay #2 11-8-07 DDAy #3 12-23-07 DDay #?! 7-2-07
"If you ask me what I came into this world to do, I will tell you: "I came to live out loud."

Posts: 1381 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: midwest,
woundedspouse
♀ Member
Member # 16657
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, February 4th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry my previous post was cut short. Trying to do this from my phone. Thank you in advance for your insight.


Wounded


Wounded Spouse
ME - 41 BS
HIM 51 WS
Married 2/93 3 beautiful children
DDay #1 8-26-07 DDay #2 11-8-07 DDAy #3 12-23-07 DDay #?! 7-2-07
"If you ask me what I came into this world to do, I will tell you: "I came to live out loud."

Posts: 1381 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: midwest,
Phoenix Rising
♂ Member
Member # 28696
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, February 4th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Are there any WS that remained in the fog or otherwise showed no remorse or compassion to their BS for 2 or more years but finally "got it" later and began the task of working on meaningful reconcilition by doing everything that they didn't do for the 2+ years? If so what took so long, did anything happen to make you snap out of it, any reommendations for a BS to help a WS break out of the fog after so long? Thanks in advance for any input.

Posts: 86 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: North Carolina
inahurricane
♀ Member
Member # 28687
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, February 4th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1 year out.

Waywards - did any of you initially return to your marriage out of a sense of obligation, or a need for security, or convenience, or familiarity, or because 'your spouse was a sure bet' whereas the OP may or may not take you in the long term? Even though you still loved the OP

If so, what brought you around to focusing that love on you BS rather than turning the whole think into a truelife example of "bridges of madison county?" What was the turning point when you gained reality about the OP, or did you ever?


BW - FWH in our 40's
FWH confessed March 21, 2010
Reconciled(Us), Redemption (WS & OW), Reclaimed (my life)


Posts: 262 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: North Carolina
Merlin
♂ Member
Member # 30221
Default  Posted: 5:33 PM, February 4th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Are there any WS that remained in the fog or otherwise showed no remorse or compassion to their BS for 2 or more years but finally "got it" later and began the task of working on meaningful reconcilition by doing everything that they didn't do for the 2+ years?

Phoenix Rising,

My older sister's husband left her for OW. As the marriage broke apart, he acutally argued with my sister and MC that he should be able to be married and have OM. (Evidence of fog maybe?) They were married for 20+ years.

They divorced. He drifted around for a while, with several other women.

After six years, he's back with my sister. She never got over him. He realized what a mistake it was to leave. They slowly reconciled and seem okay, not like it was, but okay.

Don't wait for this to happen. Become the best you that you can manage. Live for you, live for now. You'll be more attractive to everyone, maybe even your WS, and to the most important person, you.


"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D. H. Lawrence

Her: WW/56 Me: BS/62, 24yrs M
3 great kids, now 22, 20, 17 b,b,g
D-Day 8/14/08, D 1/13/11


Posts: 1106 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: East Coast
overcoming2003
♀ Member
Member # 30862
Default  Posted: 6:51 PM, February 4th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you ever have trouble keeping NC with AP? If so, how do you overcome the temptation?

Posts: 314 | Registered: Jan 2011
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 6:53 PM, February 4th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Merlin...

Please do not answer on behalf of a WS. This thread is specifically for WS's to answer questions, should they choose to do so.

Thank you.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 192075 | Registered: May 2002
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, February 5th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

overcoming2003 - Do you ever have trouble keeping NC with AP? If so, how do you overcome the temptation?

I went NC on D-day and have never broken NC except for when my BS requested it in the first week of R to request copies of correspondence. Since then, there has only been one ďfishingĒ attempt and that one went straight to the delete folder directly after my BS was informed. So if you are asking if I ever broke NC, the answer is no.

Was I tempted? Well, there were a few times in the early days when I thought about checking up on her, more so to see how she was handling the end of the affair but I never did. In truth, it was because of a quote given to me in the first days which were my strength, my motto that gave me direction.

Wisdom from Gamine - Make a decision and discipline yourself not to waver. Don't be someone who stands for nothing. Stand for what you decide and back it with the full force of your character and conviction. DECIDE. CHOOSE. COMMIT. PERIOD.

You see, I had always known that my affair was wrong. I just never allowed myself to make a decision on the issue. I never had to make a choice until it was staring me straight in the eye after LF confronted me. When the crunch came, I followed my heart. I did what I should have done the year before. I Stood up for myself, my real self, the part that knew I was wrong for seeing her as some magic dream come true. Hell, there has been a part of me that knew that if it didnít work out with the AP some 30 years before, it sure wasnít going to be any different this time around. It was just that after building a fantasy for 30 years in my head, I just didnít want to admit that to myself.

No... Each time that I feel tempted to think about her, I drag my motto out and I am strong in my desire to not contact her. Strong in my conviction that LF is the soul mate that I need in my life.

I think that knowing the consequences, having then put into my face front and centre (losing my wife, losing my wifeís respect and losing my own self-respect) is the boundary that I need. You know, on a pasture, quite often the fences have pieces of cloth or plastic tied to the upper strand of barb wire. It serves as a visual reminder of the consequences before the barb wire draws blood. Regretfully, some WSís will always need that reminder. I think that mine is burnt deep into my soul now. Iím not tempted to contact the AP because the affair is no longer something that I need in my life. Once you reach that point in time, the temptation doesnít exist anymore.

There is a thread about creating indifference to the AP. Perhaps it might help in this regard and I have also included two others that relate to this issue.

How to create emotional indifference to the AP http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=379158

You Cannot Be Friends With Your Former Affair Partner http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=342003

For those who is struggling maintain NC/newly ended A.(withdraw) http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=180682


HUFI

Those decisions that are truly significant are only confronted once .... the opportunity never returns and you must do it right the first time - Mara Delone


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3218 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, February 5th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

overcoming, I have no problem keeping NC now- but we're 7 years past dday. At first it was hard, b/c I was fence sitting and foggy as all get-out. My H and I had a conversation about 6 weeks after dday, and he basically told me he wanted to stay with me, but it was up to me. (short version) I sent the NC letter a few days later and kept NC.

I knew what I had to lose- and the idea of life without my husband was just bleak. Even after that, the habit of talking to the OP had to be broken, so I would shift focus to my H. When my thoughts would wander, I'd call or email my H and recenter myself. I also wore a rubber band around my wrist, and when my mind would go to the OM or memories of the A, I'd pull that band back and give my wrist a good snap. It really did make me realize now much I thought about OP. It was a good tool to use to make it real- physical pain as a consequence of thinking about the A.

Eventually, though, after we were further along in R, I didn't need those tools. I didn't want to talk to OP, didn't want to think about him, so keeping NC isn't difficult.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
nlovemyfamily
♀ Member
Member # 15258
Default  Posted: 12:16 PM, February 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

could any fws share the mantra they held close to them to keep them on the right track?

Posts: 415 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: nj
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, February 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nlovemyfamily -

This is the one I used (still applies as far as who I drive myself to be each day):

I made a terrible decision which caused more pain than I can possibly imagine and has no possible justification.


Yet that decision and the moments associated with it are linked to a single season of my life. We go through dozens of seasons in a lifetime, each presenting the opportunity to choose right or wrong behavior.


My life is not defined solely by my A. While it will forever be a part of what I have done on this earth, I have been given an opportunity to enter the next season of my life and make the right choices.


I commit myself now and forever more to focusing on what it will take to make Wells and the girls my top priority and to make them happy. I know that the more I give them, the more I will be able to move away from my season of pain and toward a season of hope.


I am accepting responsibility for the A and everything it has done. But I am also forgiving myself, knowing each day I give pure and total love to my family will be my sign that I am defined as a man of integrity and honor.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, February 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Inahurricane -

Waywards - did any of you initially return to your marriage out of a sense of obligation, or a need for security, or convenience, or familiarity, or because 'your spouse was a sure bet' whereas the OP may or may not take you in the long term? Even though you still loved the OP

I'm not sure I would call it a sense of obligation. More like my internal compass knew it was the right choice to make. Yet there's no doubt I was scared on all fronts. My messed up mind did wonder if I had chosen correctly, and what would happen if I committed to my BW and she decided the M was over anyway.

If so, what brought you around to focusing that love on you BS rather than turning the whole think into a truelife example of "bridges of madison county?" What was the turning point when you gained reality about the OP, or did you ever?

I'm not sure it was this one big melodramatic moment. It happened over the course of about five months time. There were milestones along the way that included IC helping me to see things clearly, conversations with my BW about books we were reading together, the distance of NC allowing me to focus on the healing process and plenty of posting here on SI to work through my confusion.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, February 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PhoenixRising -

Are there any WS that remained in the fog or otherwise showed no remorse or compassion to their BS for 2 or more years but finally "got it" later and began the task of working on meaningful reconcilition by doing everything that they didn't do for the 2+ years? If so what took so long, did anything happen to make you snap out of it, any reommendations for a BS to help a WS break out of the fog after so long? Thanks in advance for any input.

My fog hung on for about five months, not over two years. But I don't think it's so much the length of time as it is the key thing that forces the fog out. That key thing is accountability.

It started with D-Day. I asked for S, and my BW refused. I was either "all in" trying to R or the M was over. I was held accountable for my choice to focus on the M from the start.

It continued through the early months. I was on the hook for arranging IC/MC, not her. I was to read certain books and we would discuss the content together. I volunteered passwords for full transparency to my communication tools.

The final step was when my BW saw a number on my cell bill from the same city as xMOW. While it was the number of a co-worker, the process I had to go through to prove that to her and help her feel more at ease was the type of accountability that got my focus to shift where it needed to be all along.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, February 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

woundedspouse -

Please help me understand how he feels he has done all of the work necessary to come up with his why.

In all probability, it's because he's afraid of what he'll uncover when he digs deeper.

He does not understand why I feel this is a surface answer and a cop out.

Ok, the geek in me is going to surface here for a minute. To get to a root cause of any problem, you have to ask "why" repeatedly until the answer you have can't have "why" asked of it. Usually, you'll have to do this at least three to five times before you'll get to the "real" root cause of a problem.

So look at his answer?

Because I wanted to.

The next question is then logical.

Why did you want to?

If you can't answer that, you need to keep trying until you can.

If you follow my own trail, you'll see what I mean.

Why did I cheat? Because it made me feel better.

Why did it make me feel better? Because xMOW would give me positive feedback.

Why did xMOW's positive feedback make me feel better? Because many of the feedback sources around me (home, work, etc.) were loaded with negative feedback.

Why did that negative feedback bother me? Because I made my self image what was reflected back to me.

Why did I allow others to create my self image? Because I didn't have the skills to do it for myself.

End result? External validation was a factor in my choices. In order to fix it, I had to learn how to strengthen my own self image and not lean on others to do it for me.

The same exercise applied to figuring out why I never told my BW I was upset (I feared conflict based on how I was taught to deal with conflict by my upbringing).

So the challenge I would give to your WS to the answer he is giving you is "why". And until he can get to the final why, he still has more work to do.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, February 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nlovemyfamily -

They can't handle the truth about their self reflected failings so they go toward someone who doesn't know their history good or bad.

When you rely on others to define you as a success or failure rather than doing it yourself, you are at risk every time the relationship goes long enough to allow negative feedback to happen. If you move on to someone new, you can start over with that person defining you as "good" for a while. It's why most relationships growing from an A can't last, because no one can ever warrant only good feedback forever.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
trustagain
♀ Member
Member # 16921
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, February 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This may have been covered I haven't read the entire thread but:

If the A is started with lies - each party lying to each other about their home life, how bad the spouse is, etc. how do you trust the OM/W that they will not lie to you?

My FWH lied to the OW and didn't tell her he was married - he was just "dating" me and it didn't work out. So when I emailed her to "leave my H alone" why wouldn't she think - geez I am not special he lied to me as well?

I know if I was starting a new relationship with someone and I found out that I had been lied to about the present or their past, I would not trust them and I would end the relationship.

I am stuck on this one!

[This message edited by trustagain at 3:11 PM, February 11th (Friday)]


WH - 47
BS (me) - 50
Son - 24
Son - 17
Dday #1 - 10/31/07
Dday #2 - 12/23/07
Dday #1,000,000 - 12/23/09 - found out EA was PA
Reconciling or at least trying. We have reconciled through the A, but he still doesn't get it when it comes to p

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