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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS- Part 5
velveteer
♂ Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 4:03 AM, March 16th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thanks dzaster

She is in IC - her previous IC was hopeless and I think made matters worse. She is now seeing a psychotherapist and he is challenging her to get to the issues that underlie the affair so that is good. She said last night she is finding it hard but thinks it is good.

I know its time, but that's not always easy - its a limbo situation and while I can move on with my own life (and am) it is tough. I told her last night that there was a road open for her but that is is hard to keep it open sometimes. She said she was grateful for that and said that I have been amazing. She is not talking to me about her feelings for OM and for that I am grateful. but she is not talking about anything right now. Maybe that's OK for now.

thanks again for your input - its really appreciated.


Divorced

Posts: 854 | Registered: Jan 2011
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 4:13 AM, March 16th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

suckstobeme,

I'm having a really hard time finding an answer to your most recent question. My situation is different. I did believe that a D wouldn't impact the kids that much, and that they would be fine with gerrygirl. As much as I resented BW during my EA, somewhere inside I knew the truth even though I fought it with all I had. The "responsible" thing for me to do would be to not cause problems or bad-mouth BW to the kids. As far as I was concerned, I was making the best of a situation that had no alternate endings. I was convinced that D was it and we would all be better for it. The WS is pretty good at having everything figured out when we are in the fog.

To answer your previous question about being served, I don't know because we never made it as far a filing. It sounds like your WH is pretty good at compartmentalizing so everything may be hunky-dory with him right now. Somewhere deep inside though, he probably understands what he has done, but he is going to maintain his facade for as long as he is able.

You know the possible outcomes in this...1) he will live happily ever after with OW 2) reality will hit and he will try to come back 3) he will cheat on OW 4) OW will cheat on him. Whichever way it goes, he will either stay broken or want to fix himself. But by that time, you will probably have moved on and he will have lost everything. It's his choice.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 4:36 AM, March 16th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fighting2Survive,
From back on page 15...

I am having a lot of trouble understanding/processing one part of FWHís EA.

Every time weíve tried to talk about this, we end up in a huge argument and FWH will eventually acknowledge that he did have feelings for her past D-day and that he wasnít actually trying to end it. Then a day or week later, he goes back to saying that he was ending it and didnít have feelings. Itís a never ending circle.

Why does he do this and what should I do?

Those all-night-conversations probably got pretty steamy. Think about how weird your conversations can get at o'dark thirty. Whatever was said, a line was probably crossed. At that point, your WH knew what he was doing was wrong, but at the same time he probably really enjoyed whatever happened or whatever was said.

Now, he is trying to figure out how it all fits together. How could he have enjoyed something like that? How could he have participated in whatever conversations occurred that compelled OW to throw herself at him so blatantly? It must not have been her, it was all him. He is the bad guy because he should have been in control. Yet it happened and there is no denying that part of it.

So, he is going to defend OW. He is going to be confused about why he did what he did. He is going to struggle with being honest with you and himself. He is going to try to minimize his responsibility while at the same time he is going to try to not blameshift.

He's finding his footing. It doesn't mean he isn't accepting responsibility, it is just trying to put the pieces together, give you what you want/need, and heal himself all at the same time. His reactions are probably fairly normal when things don't add up in his thought processes.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
suckstobeme
♀ Member
Member # 30853
Default  Posted: 7:27 AM, March 16th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Baxters - You are correct in that he is a master compartmenalizer and a master avoider. He is walking through life right now with blinders on.

He's had a lot of personal stuff happen to him over the past few years, not much to do with me at all, but loss of a parent, his father remarried lickity-split and tried to jam the new wife down his throat, he started realizing that he's not where he wants to be professionally, etc. etc. There was lots of drinking going on during all of this "midlife transition" bullshit and that was obviously to soothe himself and self-medicate the issues going on inside.

I've thought about it a lot and it occurred to me that in the year before the A started, it was the first time that he actually had to deal with turmoil in his own life. We've dealt with other things like the loss of my father, issues with our kids, but he's not had anything really personal happen to him until that time. He was lucky to skate 43 years without real tragedy.

It seems to me that he had no idea how to handle it except to ignore the things he didn't like and wipe everything in his life clean to try to start over. But, regardless of what happens with OW or with us or with someone else, they say that wherever you go, there you are. I know that he knows, deep down, that he's wrong and all of his decisions are wrong. He's stubborn and emotionally weak in that he does not want to admit it or look at himself in the mirror. On the other hand, I am growing stronger every day and I am seeing what is really going on. He is broken. I resisted that idea and thought it was my fault for so long. Whatever I did - and I'm not a perfect wife, no one is - I didn't go down that path of self-destruction. I do feel he will hit rock bottom one day. I only hope that my kids don't witness it and that when it happens, he tries to get himself help. ...


BW - me
ExWH - "that one"
D - 2011
You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve.
Hard as it may be, try to never give the OP any of your power or head space.

Posts: 2505 | Registered: Jan 2011
nlovemyfamily
♀ Member
Member # 15258
Default  Posted: 5:25 PM, March 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How waywards become wayward??...Would love to hear opinions from other FWS on this posting. How much of this is generic or universal? I thought it was a pretty good understanding but does this insight only come after being out of A relationship looking back or can it come while in relationship with AP that killed both marriages and estranged adult kids of a previously loving intact family? Thanks for your patience reading this long post!!

Posts: 415 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: nj
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 10:13 PM, March 17th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nlove,

Not a very long post really...and there seems to be a bit of exasperation and frustration going on for you right now.

Not sure what you mean by the generic/universal question. They both seem like the same thing to me.

As far as how a wayward becomes a wayward, there are probably two major camps and a ton of smaller camps.

One camp is the "always done it, always will" camp. They might know it's wrong, but will not fix themselves. The other camp is the "how in the hell did this happen" camp. Those are generally the WS that you see here on SI. The other camp may come here, but I really don't think they last long term.

As far as when the understanding/insight comes, I think it depends on the camp the WS is in. but either camp can come to the realization or not depending on the Ws.

If the WS is in the first camp, then the understading/insight may or may not occur, but regardless it may be discarded and that WS will continue on happy as a clam and justify, compartmentalize, blameshift and gaslight their way through life. OR that WS will actually see what they did and try to change/heal themselves, but it will be a long road.

If they are from the second camp, the "how in the hell did this happen" camp, then understanding/insight may come. Hopefully it is before they leave for the AP, but sometimes it will be after a kharma event or something else that is similar where the WS finds out the truth of the AP situation.

Really, there are two camps before, and two camps after. The after camps I think are what you are asking about after looking at some of your recent posts. There are those who will "get it" and will attempt R, work on healing, and know that they can't keep doing what they did before. Sometimes they make it, sometimes they don't. Then there is the camp of "can't deal with it" and they will deny anything is wrong and want to rugsweep, minimize, whatever to get out of taking responsibility, whether it is leaving for AP, or just sticking to the mantra of "why can't you just get over it"...but sometimes they sneak over to the other camp and work on things.

In reality, there are more camps than be counted along the whole spectrum. There is no one answer. While the WS here have done some of what your WH has done, those that are still here eventually stopped and can't answer from experience what your WH is doing now.

The only answer to give is to take care of yourself, let your kids form their own opinions of your WH, and detach. It isn't fair. It isn't right. It just is. You have your reality now. How you got here is one matter. Understanding it is another.

If an apology from a WH would provide comfort, I would give it. But I don't think it can answer for what has happened to you, to your M, or to your kids.

Now is the time for you to heal.

[This message edited by BaxtersBFF at 10:17 PM, March 17th (Thursday)]


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
nlovemyfamily
♀ Member
Member # 15258
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, March 18th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it possible for WS to feel love for S or even XS while engaging in relationship with AP? I have read where the WS can't truly feel love for BS while they are with AP, is this common mindset?

Posts: 415 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: nj
leftoolate
♀ Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 2:38 AM, March 19th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi nlovemyfamily,

I have read where the WS can't truly feel love for BS while they are with AP, is this common mindset?
Yes, this seems to be a common mindset.

Is it possible for WS to feel love for S or even XS while engaging in relationship with AP?
Yes. I did. However, your mileage may vary due to many more-or-less personal factors, like
1. Your idea of love. Does it include respect, importance and selflessness? Or is it 'simpler': affection, care, romance?
2. The similarities or lack thereof between your marital relationship and the affair relationship (copying, replacement).
3. The motives underlying the affair behaviour. What part does the spouse play in the wayward's mind?
4. etc., you get the gist.

I never stopped loving my husband. I also never loved him as I should have.

It kind of depends on the question of accepting lesser kinds of love. Perhaps someone with the opposite view can clarify.

~L.


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, March 19th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WS out there that are still married to your BS.

What would you of done if your BS was the WS. In other words if the shoes were on the other feet. Your BS did what you did. I know it is a little tough to answer. Because now we lived it and been thru it. Would you of rathered it been flipped around? Or are you glad your spouse doesn't have to feel the guilt you carry daily?? Or do you carry guilt daily?? Just curious?
Thanks WSes!!!


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3140 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 6:43 AM, March 20th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

heartache101,

I would leave. I wouldn't R.

I do not wish for BW to know what it feels like on the WS. I certainly don't want to feel what it's like to be a BH. Accounting for all past relationships, I have been the WBF, BBF, OM, and WH. I guess I am a MOM too...

IMO, the guilt isn't the hardest thing to deal with. Many BS wonder how a WS can live with guilt. Well, they compartmentalize it. It comes out sometime just before R and is used to deflect and prevents the WS from taking full responsibility for their actions. It's the woe is me card. The real pain for the WS comes after the guilt lessens and they begin to see the damage they have inflicted. Then it isn't guilt, it is sorrow, and heartache and remorse. Again, this is just my opinion.

Now, prior to d-day, my BW would have said the same thing. She didn't leave, so I really don't know what I would do.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 7:07 AM, March 20th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Baxter

Thank you for your answer.
Yes compartmentalize it is the answer my FWS gave me. He said he feels our marriage would of been better if I would of cheated because he could compartmentalize it better then me.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3140 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 7:42 AM, March 20th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

heartache,

For what it's worth, my BW has said more than once that she thought if either of us were to cheat, she would have believed it would have been her. Not that she ever thought about cheating or ever tried, just that she had that much trust in me. I don't think I ever really thought about it for either of us. I knew I wouldn't and I knew she wouldn't, so it wasn't an issue. I can hear a little voice in my head asking me "how'd that work out for ya?"

Regardless, cheating sucks on both sides of the fence.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 4:48 AM, March 23rd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

Are there any WSs out there who had multiple affairs over a long period?

I suppose I'm just looking for reassurance that a WS who has done this can be truly remorseful and that someone in my sich can have a successful R.

If interested read my profile and/or recent posts for more info.

Thanks

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
nlovemyfamily
♀ Member
Member # 15258
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, March 23rd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For those WS that left to be with AP:I have been really examining myself these last 4+ years since WH has left and now we are D. With all my introspection and self examination I can't help but realize my XH left to go to AP in order to avoid self examination and reflection of all the immediate destruction and long term destruction. Is the AP just a means or vehicle to avoid self examination? My XH keeps expressing to me and his estranged kids he is not an "ax murderer". But do ax murderers kill their own families? Just wondering the real reason WS stay with AP, when in reality it can't be favorable to live without M with another and have no relationship with your kids or any history of 34 years around you. No pictures, no videos, no mementos, nothing to remind one of their most precious blessings.

Posts: 415 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: nj
leftoolate
♀ Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 6:05 AM, March 24th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi nlovemyfamily,

Around here, there probably aren't that many WSs that left their spouse and family for the affair partner. The reason for that is related to your question: Is the AP just a means or vehicle to avoid self examination?

The short answer, from my point of view, would be 'yes'. Had I left my husband, it wouldn't have been for the affair partner, but it would have been an avoidance tactic. And I can't say that I haven't been tempted. If I had seen any way to avoid the introspection (and the related work and pain) and keep my husband and family and help him heal - I would have. However, these options were and are mutually exclusive. in the end, I valued the latter more. Apperently, not all WSs do. Those that avoid the introspection will hardly enter a forum where dedication to healing is required.

~L.


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
horse crazy
♀ New Member
Member # 31539
Default  Posted: 7:40 AM, March 29th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for the WS:I am in the 3rd month and am having terrible mind movies of the WH and OP having sex. Are there any good ways, albeit painful, to describe your pespective to help the BS put a value on it? My WH has a hard time talking about it and I want to make sure there are no references or similiarities in our lovemaking. I beleive it is superficial yet, is there someone out there who can put a perspective on what you went through in this area? I know it is an insecurity but need to find resolution or a rationality so I can process the PA part and have hit a brick wall (and not much better in counseling like it is a taboo topic.) Any suggestions Hufi or anyone?


horse crazy

Posts: 18 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Chantilly, VA
Fightingspirit
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Member # 31652
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, March 29th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello all, I am in month 2 of discovery and not quite a month out from confronting my WH. I would like to ask if you think I have the right to still question my WH about details after Iíve kicked him out and told him I do not want to R. Iím currently working on getting him to agree to terms in our separation agreement. Heís told me he wanted to R but during the first week after DDay he lied so much I donít think he is able to R. Only after my sister-in-law got involved did he begin telling me about two other transgressions he had. Second week we had a long talk about all issues in our marriage and I dispelled his belief that R means he apologizes and I forgive him and we never mention the As again. He was really shocked that Rs and my "getting over it" would take years.

But I still have questions. Since that last talk about our marriage and R Iíve only asked questions about legal separation and exposure to STDs. Would any WS continue answering questions from a BS who is done with them?


BW 37
WS Who cares...
DD 3 yrs old
DDAY1 2/17/11
DDAY2 3/11/11
DDAY3 6/26/11
DDAY4 8/2011

Divorce finalized 7/2012


Posts: 88 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Maryland
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, March 29th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fightinspirit,

There are many factors in answering your question. Despite kicking him out and telling him you don't want to R, do you hope to R eventually? If so, then answering questions is going to be part of the equation.

However, since you are hammering out the details of the S, perhaps you should disconnect from him and just stick to the basics for yourself. If he starts changing during S, you will recognize it and can determine a path forward from there. Until then, will his answers change anything for you?

Knowing what I know now, having been on SI for over a year, logically I know that there wouldn't be any reason to continue answering questions if my BW were done with me and the M. My attempting to do so would just prolong everyone's hurt. But me being me, I am sure I would feel compelled to give answers even if no questions were asked.

For you situation, whatever you need to do is whatever you need to do. Just keep in mind that you can only control yourself. Your WH may or may not come around. By the time he does come around, you may be done. Two months isn't all that long. There is a lot of work that you have to do for yourself. There is a lot of work that your WH will hopefully do for himself.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, March 29th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

horse crazy,

It sounds like you need a level of detail that your WH isn't willing to give up yet. Describing that he is not "comfortable" discussing those details sort of implies that you may not be as tough on this topic as maybe you should be. In other words, you are enabling him to continue to not take full responsibility for his actions. And then mentioning that it is a taboo subject in counseling...You are paying that person, you have a right to direct certain aspects of it.

Play some hardball. You want answers. Get them. Don't let your WH and your C tip-toe around the subject just because your WH is scared.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, March 29th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura28,

I believe there are WS here who have had multiple LTA's. I am not one of them.

I think the answer to your question and the reassurance you are seeking lies with your WH. From your profile story, there have been many d-days and much TT. Is your WH done with giving you d-days and TT to deal with? If so, and he understands the severity of the damage he has done, then yes, there is a chance for R. However, many BS's in your situation wouldn't stick around.

Anything is possible.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
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