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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS- Part 5
stilllovinghim
♀ Member
Member # 29971
Default  Posted: 5:10 AM, April 17th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@suckstobeme:
In complete honesty, it really didn't hit me until my H did the work and found SI. He showed me "What every wayward needs to know" along with a lot of info from the Healing Library. The thread above though is what got me to stop seeing the back of my own teeth if you get the gist...

I was doing some stuff here and there we didn't have a therapist, but I still could have done more. I didn't realize the hurt I had caused until I came here and started reading about it.

I was just flitting thru, hoping it would all just dissapear, pretending everything was ok...la de dah...

When I read and reread and reread the aforementioned post by Hufi, that's when it hit me. It kept coming at me, the more active I became on SI. I'd read and post. I received some really amazing advise and a couple of well deserved 2x4s, but you gotta have 2x4s if you want to build, right?

I'm still learning and growing, but it all really started coming into focus then. I still have my days where im selfish and I mess up, only now I'm a little more aware of myself and my Hs needs. I apologize way more than before and I stop and think more than I used to. Becoming really aware of my Hs pain, what he wakes up to every day, has given me a new way of thinking.


“You have a choice. Live or die.Every breath is a choice. Every minute is a choice. Every time you don't throw yourself down the stairs, that's a choice. Every time you don't crash your car, you re-enlist.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Survivor

Posts: 1933 | Registered: Oct 2010
Hurtsobad1963
♀ Member
Member # 31139
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, April 17th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How can a WS lie about the OWs name for two years. He lied about the OWs name, extend of the affair,and EA vs. PA. Did he protect the OW over his wife, and family?

Posts: 164 | Registered: Feb 2011
leftoolate
♀ Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, April 17th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi, Hurtsobad1963,

Did he protect the OW over his wife, and family?
Sounds awful, I know. And it's true, at some level. But basically he was preserving his self-image, and to do that he had to protect the delusion that the OW was worth any energy at all. And the delusion that you were better of not knowing - and he knew better than you. The delusion that he had a right to behave like this.

Had he faced reality in a new and better light, he'd be forced face some very hard facts and emotions - not just his own, but yours as well, and perhaps others'...

I can almost understand it. But it's still horrible and wrong. I hope he came clean on his own.

~L.


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
HigherGround
♀ Member
Member # 31644
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, April 17th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First of all I'd like to give credit where it is due to WSs who actually realize that they've made mistakes and want to expend effort in an attempt to correct them. That takes a big person.

For any of you who didn't wake up right after D-Day, what made you finally come out of it and realize how destructive the affair was to not only your family but yourself?


Me: BW
Him: WH
2nd Marriage 6 years together for 7. D-Day in Feb 2011.
*DD1 almost 3 yr old, Quad Spastic CP, Complex Seizure Disorder.
*DD2 6 month old bundle of wonder.
*seperated - some good days; some not so good days.

Posts: 610 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Canada
Hurtsobad1963
♀ Member
Member # 31139
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, April 17th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Left to late, thanks for your response, I actually, found out the name on my own. His response for not giving me the real name was, He had lied so long, that it became a habit, and that, he knew that I would contact the OWs BS, which I did. He said that he didn't want the OWs BS, to have to be hurt. How does that explanation sound?

Thanks


Posts: 164 | Registered: Feb 2011
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 10:47 PM, April 17th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HigherGround, you asked
For any of you who didn't wake up right after D-Day, what made you finally come out of it and realize how destructive the affair was to not only your family but yourself?

the very real possibility that I would lose my husband woke me up. For about 6 weeks after dday I was on the fence. Stayed in contact with the OP as "insurance" against being alone. I knew I didn't want him- but I wanted a guarantee... and was too stupid to understand that my husband couldn't give me that- not after what I'd done.

So I was in IC and working on my issues but hadn't ended it or sent the NC letter. My H was in IC also and was also doing the 180. I saw him starting to just take care of himself, and it scared me. Then we had a conversation about our future. My BH told me that he didn't want to have a future without me in it. He said, "I hope you'll choose us. But if you don't, I know I'll move on and find love and be happy again."

O.M.G. I didn't react immediately, but it sunk in. He was serious. This was real, and it was my fault. Within a week, I'd sent the NC letter. That didn't mean that the struggle was over- but real healing could begin because I'd invested myself in R. A few weeks after that, the real remorse set in and I was a mess. But it was necessary to feel that shame in order to work through it- and in spite of his own hurt, my H was patient and willing to let me process all my FoO crap in IC.

About 3 or 4 months after dday we started MC and things improved steadily after that. It's been 7+ years since dday. Things are good- we are blessed... and a day never passes that I don't say a prayer of gratitude for the man who married me- and was willing to stay married to me.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
leftoolate
♀ Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 6:17 AM, April 18th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Follow-up for Hurtsobad1963:
He had lied so long, that it became a habit, and that, he knew that I would contact the OWs BS
Well, on first glance I'd say that the second part of that statement contradicts the first, wouldn't you? On the other hand, I do believe that it's rather difficult to overcom an ingrained habit. If lying is the default-response under stress, it is hard to not lie(yes, I know that's confusing to honest people...). The second part shows that he is aware of his own lying - he tries to justify it by making up a reason for it. Awareness is a good, solid first step, and it seems he hasn't quite followed through.

He said that he didn't want the OWs BS, to have to be hurt.
This reasoning is flawed, too, by the way. The affair is what hurt the other betrayed spouse - not the knowledge of the affair.

I dont know... It all sounds as if he's still trying to avoid the whole mess, even though he's in over his head.

~L.


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
wwnomore
♀ Member
Member # 31675
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, April 18th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@Hurtsobad1963

Maybe I am in a very different place, but I have a different take on it:

I think it is completely natural to want to limit the collateral damage. When is enough really enough?

I don't think WH placed OW above you at all in that sense. I think there is validity in wanting to stop the pain and stop the hurt. Some of us knowingly took the risk of destroying our own families, but to destroy a 2nd is more real than we could have imagined.

LTL is exactly on the mark as to the underlying reasons why we lie. I just wanted to give my perspective on it in this scenario.


Posts: 489 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Mid-Atlantic
hurtbutmending
♀ Member
Member # 31655
Default  Posted: 3:21 PM, April 18th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"What every wayward needs to know"

Where can i find this?


BS(me)
FWH(him)
MOW insignificant
married 25 years
2 grown children
DDay Oct 4 2009
R - trying


Trusted too much!


Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Finding myself again
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 3:35 PM, April 18th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hurt...

Here is the link to that thread...please be advised that it's in the WS forum, so it may trigger you.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 191837 | Registered: May 2002
hurtbutmending
♀ Member
Member # 31655
Default  Posted: 4:36 PM, April 18th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Scared..

Thank you.

It probably won't trigger me, as my triggers seem to be personal for me. But thank you for the warning.

Just looking for info for H to be able to heal too.


BS(me)
FWH(him)
MOW insignificant
married 25 years
2 grown children
DDay Oct 4 2009
R - trying


Trusted too much!


Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Finding myself again
Junebug0525
♀ Member
Member # 29142
Default  Posted: 1:18 AM, April 20th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Posted in General, but was redirected here:

This was brought about in the Wayward Side, but it got me thinking about some things. When you were in the "fog", what kinds of things did you tell your AP about your BS? I know mine must have told her some doozies about me considering that he said some terrible things to me in front of her when I busted his lying ass. So, what kind of stories did you tell them? Did you believe what you said at the time or just one of those things that you needed to do in order to convince them that your BS wasn't really a good person?


Me: BS
Him: WXH DDay-11/22/2009~ D~ 10/25/10
OWhore: Co-worker (7 years younger)
"Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together." AND THEY DID!!!

Posts: 1108 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Maryland
leftoolate
♀ Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 3:27 AM, April 20th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Junebug0525,

When you were in the "fog", what kinds of things did you tell your AP about your BS?
Nothing, at least not specifically about my husband or the kind of person he is, or even about marriage in general. In my mind, even then, these were separate worlds, and my 'solution' (not) was to not think or speak of the one world while presenting myself in the other.

Did you believe what you said at the time or just one of those things that you needed to do in order to convince them that your BS wasn't really a good person?
Keeping in mind that I didn't verbally rewrite marital history or my husband, I probably would have been lying to myself rather than lying to the affair partner. I didn't feel the need to decieve him. He was already as bad a person as I was, going along with it. No need to make for moral high ground, as it were.

Intentionally painting the spouse in a bad light shows a different affair-attitude, to me. Subverting the innocent, perhaps. Hunting for prey, perhaps. My attitude was to somehow find validation in the nearest neighbouring bottom dweller, instead of dragging a top dweller down, or working to make myself a better person.

Different affairs call for different kids of lies. I'm sorry I can't really answer your question. I'll leave this post up anyway.

~L.


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
wwnomore
♀ Member
Member # 31675
Default  Posted: 7:08 AM, April 20th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Junebug0525,

I'm 100% with leftoolate on this one.

MOM and I deliberately and carefully kept our BS' and M's out of bounds. It wasn't negotiated necessarily, that's just how it was. Neither of us saw the need to bring it up probably because we were using each other as an escape. Shining a light on the BS would have killed the fantasy. I also thought maybe it was one less lie to tell...making it seem like home life was hell. Mine actually was, but I didn't want MOM to know that about me. I let him see what I wanted him to see. That is why it worked for me for a while, and has been a big part of my healing.

It sounds truly disgusting to write it out now, and I know it wasn;t much help, but that was my experience.


Posts: 489 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Mid-Atlantic
JanaGreen
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Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, April 20th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is pretty petty, but I have to wonder - how much guy talk is normal? And when you guys are out together, do you compare the girls you see to your wives?

My husband's ONS happened when he was out of town. He was very drunk, confessed about two weeks later, very remorseful. He stopped drinking and cut the "friend" who was on the trip out of his life.

He went to a conference a couple of months ago and took another friend to help him (H owns his own business). When he got back, I found an email between him, the guy who was on the trip, and another friend of theirs. H was asking the other friend why he moved from that town (he used to live there). He said that the "scenery" there was nice and that the girls "weren't afraid to wear short skirts in 40 degree weather."

I confronted him about it and he said that they were just teasing him because he used to live there, that it wasn't any big deal and that "all guys talk like that."

He's going out of town next week and taking a guy with him who he just hired as a consultant. I said something (which I probably shouldn't have) about how I'm sure he and consultant guy will enjoy the "scenery" in the town where they're going and I'm sure they'll enjoy comparing notes about the short skirts there. H repeated to me that guys just talk like that and it's meaningless. He also apologized to me that he created the situation that makes it so stressful for me when he goes out of town, hugged me, reassured me that he will not drink and that he will never cheat on me again. I asked him to please just not act any differently than he would if I were there, and he kind of looked at me funny and said, "Well, that's what I try to do all the time." BUT really, would he be checking out "the scenery" if I were sitting right there?

I'm probably making something out of nothing, but I guess my question is, guys, how much "checking out" and discussing of the "scenery" do you do, and do you compare the (younger, thinner, tanner, bigger-breasted) "scenery" to your BS who's home caring for your children?


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6149 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
Devestatedx5
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Member # 16557
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, April 20th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JanaGreen

This is pretty petty, but I have to wonder - how much guy talk is normal? And when you guys are out together, do you compare the girls you see to your wives?
My husband's ONS happened when he was out of town. He was very drunk, confessed about two weeks later, very remorseful. He stopped drinking and cut the "friend" who was on the trip out of his life.

He went to a conference a couple of months ago and took another friend to help him (H owns his own business). When he got back, I found an email between him, the guy who was on the trip, and another friend of theirs. H was asking the other friend why he moved from that town (he used to live there). He said that the "scenery" there was nice and that the girls "weren't afraid to wear short skirts in 40 degree weather."

I confronted him about it and he said that they were just teasing him because he used to live there, that it wasn't any big deal and that "all guys talk like that."

He's going out of town next week and taking a guy with him who he just hired as a consultant. I said something (which I probably shouldn't have) about how I'm sure he and consultant guy will enjoy the "scenery" in the town where they're going and I'm sure they'll enjoy comparing notes about the short skirts there. H repeated to me that guys just talk like that and it's meaningless. He also apologized to me that he created the situation that makes it so stressful for me when he goes out of town, hugged me, reassured me that he will not drink and that he will never cheat on me again. I asked him to please just not act any differently than he would if I were there, and he kind of looked at me funny and said, "Well, that's what I try to do all the time." BUT really, would he be checking out "the scenery" if I were sitting right there?

I'm probably making something out of nothing, but I guess my question is, guys, how much "checking out" and discussing of the "scenery" do you do, and do you compare the (younger, thinner, tanner, bigger-breasted) "scenery" to your BS who's home caring for your children?

Not ALL men "talk" about their wives, gf's, other women. Many do, but not ALL! IMHO, though, all men "check out" other women to some degree. MATURE men don't "kiss and tell" or talk ribald about women. Those that do show how immature they are emotionally.


FBS-me (49)
FWH(57) ONS 8.19.07
Dday: 9.19.07
Married +26 years
RE-MARRIED 4.28.11
----------
Proverbs 31:10-31
Sometimes people are SO open-minded that that their brains fall out.

Posts: 2598 | Registered: Oct 2007
stilllovinghim
♀ Member
Member # 29971
Default  Posted: 1:33 AM, April 21st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jana,
I agree with Devastated. Some guys stay perpetually stuck in the "9th grade" and some " graduate". Sometimes guys just agree with their budies out loud, but leave it at that. They know their friend is kind of a douche, but he's also got tickets to the game or a kick ass home theater, KWIM? Some guys just don't join in with the banter at all, it just all depends on the person and how they handle peer pressure, how secure they are, etc.

Your H does, however, need to be more supportive and more empathetic towards you though IMHO. He may not meen anything by it, but if it hurts you, he needs to respect you first, no matter if he understands exactly where your coming from or not, IMHO.

Sometimes people are used to talking and behaving certain ways for so long and it being "accepted" by their peers and everyone else, they don't see the reason or need for change.
But like I said earlier, regardless if he understands your feelings or not, he needs to show you RESPECT.


“You have a choice. Live or die.Every breath is a choice. Every minute is a choice. Every time you don't throw yourself down the stairs, that's a choice. Every time you don't crash your car, you re-enlist.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Survivor

Posts: 1933 | Registered: Oct 2010
velveteer
♂ Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, April 21st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been thinking a lot recently about WW and about who she really is.

I know about the fog and certainly feel that WW has become someone I don't know. However, when I really think about it I can see some warning signs from way back - she is self-centred and always has been (although I did think becoming a mother had diminshed that). She was over indulged as a child and as a result has a huge sense of entitlement. She has also never really taken responsibility for her life in any big way - always relied on others.

None of these are good signs really, but still don't fully account for her taking leave of her senses so dramatically.

So - my question. Is the A mindset a form of temporary insanity (mania maybe?) or it is more an extreme manifestation of who they really are?


Divorced

Posts: 854 | Registered: Jan 2011
Compost Heap
♀ Member
Member # 30558
Default  Posted: 5:17 PM, April 21st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

velveteer:

Is the A mindset a form of temporary insanity (mania maybe?) or it is more an extreme manifestation of who they really are?

Hrm- I think it's a little bit of both for me.

At times during and right after the A, it felt like a sort of "temporary insanity".

I had a sort of out-of-body experience while I was doing the "worst" behaviors and thoughts.

I'd think to myself, "who is this person?" I felt so disconnected, like I was watching some robot that was capable of doing anything. Like maybe I could start shoplifting or killing people... so far away was my behavior from my internal moral compass!

But of course, I know that is a reflection of me... and so I hate to say "temporary insanity" because it implies some kind of loss of control that had nothing to do with me.

But really, that loss of control was, as you said, "an extreme manifestation of who [I] really [am]".

Which is to say, the ability to have this sort of "out of body" experience, or to have this sort of split personality (Jekyll & Hyde) was really just coming from inner brokenness that, though successfully suppressed and ignored for a long time, came out like gang busters!

For me it was parts deep inner shame, low self esteem, need for external validation, self-centered-ness, problems with sexuality, and some compartmentalization thrown in for good measure.

Now, because of the A, I am really being forced to face these issues (and maybe more I haven't yet discovered) that I rugswept if I ever want to be healthy enough to not do something like this again.

I hope that helps.

[This message edited by Compost Heap at 5:18 PM, April 21st (Thursday)]


Out of this rotting, stinking heap of garbage will hopefully someday arise a rich fertilizer for love, compassion, mindfulness and wisdom.

Posts: 147 | Registered: Dec 2010
emotiona hell
♀ Member
Member # 31781
Default  Posted: 10:12 AM, April 22nd (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ws can you describe your healing journey/timeline. And what did your BS so to help you heal. What did you need in your life that lead you down that road?

Thank you



Me BS 41
WH 43
DS 12 DD 21
Married 23 years
DDay 6/26/10
Filed for divorce 11/23/11

Posts: 218 | Registered: Apr 2011
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