But when the xOM and I would "get back together," he'd tell me a bit about how he'd been at home during the time we were apart and he was mooning, mopey, tearful, irritable, and self-absorbed. It was actually when we got back together that his BW would say he seemed like his old self again. I am not saying necessarily that is what is going on in your situation - but either way, it strikes me as concerning that he is vacillating in the way he treats you to such extremes.
[This message edited by wanttofeelwhole at 10:03 AM, May 2nd (Monday)]
Anyway, I told him that I was still waiting on him to be like that. I know he is capable of it, because he's done it with them. He said he's trying but that he finds it really hard to express feelings like that to me, but he has no idea why it's difficult for him.
Does anyone have any ideas as to why this could be?
1. How is the fog different for the WH that has multi A/s and/or "just sex" rather than fantasy "love"?
2. Has WS pushed their spouse for sex while in an affair (not for cover up) before d-day, Why?
3. Has any WS whose BS wasn't ready to make a decision for R or D, and truthfully told WS this, and BS was doing only 180 for herself, able to make it R work? Or even strong enough to try?
4. How long does it take a WS to see how they treated BS badly when in A? I guess that's called Not compartimentalizing (sp) very well?
I am sure I have others, but I will start with those. Thanks.
He said he's trying but that he finds it really hard to express feelings like that to me, but he has no idea why it's difficult for him. Does anyone have any ideas as to why this could be?
Could be many things, I guess. My first thought was that he may be trying too hard, and clamming up at the moments he knows he's supposed to say something sweet. Could be he does want to express his actual feelings at that moment, and he trips over trying to recognize them, name them and express them eloquently in the face of the woman he betrayed. That would freeze me, too, probably.
Could be he's still compartmentalizing his affairs, and these kind of words are still residing in the wrong compartment. Or they're tainted by association and he's struggling with that.
Could be many things...
However, you are right when you say that he's physically, technically, able to say them. So, my advice to him would be to practice, and not set his sights too high. He can probably think of quite a few things he loves about you, and your reunions, as long as he doesn't feel put on the spot. Perhaps he could be mindful of these things way in advance, and word them as he would like to say them to you, and then rehearse them.
No, I'm not kidding - and I hope I haven't offended you. If this kind of practice doesn't offend you, I'd say do it. Practice does help, you know. And as long as his brain and his vocal cords know what to do that will help him get past the initial discomfort of trying to express his feelings to you. Once that hurdle is taken, he'll probably be a bit more confident about recognizing and voicing his actual feelings...
Of course, all this assumes that he wants to meet this particular need of yours, and that you can live with a bit of a strained start.
Don't worry, your questions do have answers, even if we don't have them here.
[This message edited by leftoolate at 2:32 PM, May 3rd (Tuesday)]
Yes, it was. I was in a lta for almost 3 yrs and there was alot of "hot and cold" It's called uncertainty.
It's torture for everyone involved. The xmom knew he was leaving his bs so "out of guilt" to make "himself" feel better...he would be very nice, loving and kind to his bw.. his thinking ~ ending on a good note as much as he could.....strange but true. So I can now see that made bw feel even closer to xmom even thou he was wanting to leave her.....so cruel, however I did the same thing to my bh.
I knew I wanted to leave and felt so guilty about doing it....I became more affectionate and loving towards my bh, trying to make myself...not feel so bad for what I was doing to him....I wanted him to feel good and loved for the moment...the calm before the storm.......Very cruel and mean and showed an even bigger disrespect for our bs's.
There were also hot and cold moments when we...the xmom and I were disagreeing about "our life" and sometimes the grass didnt look greener.....I would begin to compare...like, ok well I know my bh and I have problems and what most of those are....But being involved with xmom brings on awhole new level and set of problems....and the problems at home arent looking so bad to me now....So I began putting walls up towards the A but .... The xmom and I had a twisted way of playing on eachothers emotions sometimes and would end up right back together.
All water under the bridge now...well, for the most part. I still have alot of healing and learning to do...
I'm finally taking the right steps. There are alot of factors as to why the relationship goes hot and cold, those are only acouple of reasons I explained. There were many other times we were uncertain as to what the hell we were doing.
I would like to believe your ws was not in the a, but I have no clue. Keep a very close eye on your phone bill, I hope your know how to access the info online make sure you keep track of whats going on through the computer also...hopefully you know how and most important....set boundaries. If in fact he is still doing this...what are you going to do about it? I know the xmom felt he had his bs in the palm of his hand and could push her pretty far....sad but true. He tested how far he could cross over the line. He would hurt her and she would always take him back.
I do believe the saying ...We teach people how to treat us.
Best of luck to you
There were many things the xmom said about his bw that kept him...us in the affair.
He told me the reasoning behind the two of them getting married...he wasnt ready, her bio.clock was ticking and kinda the boohoo she pressured me into marriage story. I do believe he has repressed/resentful feeling from long ago.
He would say...well, she no longer wants me anymore shes already dating again...which she was, only coffee dates but still putting herself out there. So, it sounded like she was ready to let go...BUT, in fact she wasnt, deep down she wanted her marriage to work....xmom made it sound alot simpler thou. Like ok shes done.
When she did the nc/180 on him he would very much love up to me...desperatly in fact. When I did the nc/180 on him he would tell me, how much "better" his wife is than me..her cooking, her love making, her being a mother, her love towards him...like...well, if you are going to ignore me then, I'm going back to my wife and this is what I think of you for rejecting me.....
It was all very controlling and manipulating, yet I lived my life that way for years.....God, what doesnt kill us makes us stronger.
XMOM's BW and I have talked several times and we can thankfully talk in a very civil manner although we both have walls up. I never told her all the terrible things he has said about her and the past poor boundaries he's had that he shared with me. Even thou xmom totally threw me under the bus with my bh, I did not do that to his bw.
We all have been hurt, but the BS's are truly the innocent ones here, the ws are the broken souls and I did not want to do or say the same things the xmom said and did to my bh. His bw thinks she knows it all that her ws told her everything....well, thankfully she doesnt know it all because it's just as awful as the affair. The things that were said about her.
I sometimes stood up for her yes. I never said anything negative about her or encouraged the xmom to leave her in anyway.
I do realize it's not always the BS's who are crazy...it's the ws's that are crazy/broken/confused/lackingalot.
I could sort of see through his strategy while in the A but it really hit home when I personally spoke with bs and I saw it loud and clear.
Best of luck to you.
I cheated not because of anything to do with my H, but because I was hurting and broken and looking to numb all my pain. It was escape and it was the worst possible choice I could have made. We weren't separated- my poor H didn't even know how I felt about things- that I felt so lost and distant from him and thought he didn't love me anymore.
The A was so out of character for me too- but I had a hard time with withdrawal from the OP. Not because he was all that wonderful, but because I was terrified of being alone. OP was insurance against that. Of course, in that foggy state I didn't know that R wasn't possible until NC was in place. After I finally sent the NC letter, real R began.
I feel deep shame and remorse over what I did. I know people say "never say never," but I will never cheat again. I'd rather be dead that put either of us through this kind of hell again. It's been 7 1/2 years now and we are healed and very happy together. It DOES happen. I hope it will for you.
"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."
The only question I can personally relate to is the last one. It took me about 6 weeks after my H confronted me on dday to finally send the NC letter. Before that happened, I felt regret over what I did, but I just didn't comprehend the level of pain my cheating caused.
Only after that break was made and H and I started MC did it become clear how much damage my selfishness caused. It's strange, because I knew I was F-ed up - dday was on a Saturday, and the Sunday morning after my H confronted me, I went to a counseling crisis center. Sick of being screwed up, it seemed like that would be a first step towards figuring out what was wrong with me.
That's really key for all WSes who feel remorse and want to change and heal themselves: having the desire to no longer be a broken person. For us, it was about 6 months after dday before things were feeling better. We continued in therapy for a year or so, and I went for another year after that to work on my own issues.
[This message edited by Fallen at 9:36 PM, May 3rd (Tuesday)]
Sometimes the more we push and want, it does the opposite..strange right! You have told him your needs and then you sit back and wait and nothing....so your bringing up your needs again,and again,and again and still not getting the result your want.
It appears that what your doing isnt working so...I would say stop. You have made it loud and clear already. There are somethings you could do that "maybe" he would follow.
You may need to take the lead here without expecting anything in return. Show don't tell. You could write him a name poem easy....write his name then whatever the first letter is write a sentence next to it that explains something about him. Simple Example
B - Best hugger ever
O - Organized man
B - Bright smile
whatever comes to mind...positive, when you think of him. Write a sentence. Example was short.
You could pick a small bunch of wildflowers and give those to him...for no other reason then to brighten his day.
You could start a journal together...have it out on the coffee table and both of you sometime during the day write a small note or random thought that pretains to your alls love and journey.
Find a song that moves you and share it with him...listen together.
As much as you may not want too...you may have to be the one to open up this door for the two of you. I know it seemed to come naturally for him to do that with others and that bothers you, doesnt seems fair at all...understandable.
Counseling by a good counselor is Always recommeded too. Wow at that point there is a true awakening in a person, if they can handle it, for the better.
I didnt watch it, and didnt care to watch it, I knew it was on, due to the forums here but watching Dr.Phil minds of a mistress wasnt a priority for me. Personally, I wasnt interested and I could care less about their lives.
My marriage really was in deep trouble before I even met the xOM (and I never thought I was susceptible to an A). I had already asked for a D and my ex really had done some pretty crappy things. I did discuss that with xOM, but he rarely egged me on - just listened. The only time he said anything inflammatory about my husband was when my husband got violent toward me.
I am not sure what is typical, but I can say that while we talked about troubles in our marriages, neither of us said anything that could be characterized as
some crazy shit about the spouse to vilify them even more
But in my case, no one "tricked" me into anything or did things to "get" me to stay in the fog. I personally don't believe in the fog, but the choices I made - the despicable, horrifying choices I made - were mine and mine alone. No one coerced me or seduced me or misled me. And I personally think that anyone who says otherwise about their own affair is blameshifting and not owning their shit. If you don't have free will at all times, then how can you ever assure your BS that it will not happen again?
Thank you for the response, it was very reassuring, and the fact that it was 7 1/2 years ago is even better. Thank you again.
wanttofeelwhole - Are there any WH's out there that truly regret their infidelity and consider it the biggest mistake of their life? I guess I am looking for reassurance that this really can be in the past and really just be a horrible mistake.
Generally speaking, the WS community here is chock full of people who terribly regret their affairs but in truth, itís not whether there are others than regret their affairs but rather, itís a matter of does your H have regret and remorse and does he feel that he has fucked up the best thing in his life?
Only he can really answer that one. Is he working with IC or MC? Is he reading and trying to learn how and why his boundaries slipped so badly that he considered having an affair? Does he cry? Is he depressed and sad and angry and moody and full of self-loathing?
Right now LF and I are at the stage where she is trying to reconcile the new HUFI with the one that hat the affair. Judging my actions is easy, its judging what is in my heart and my soul when I talk to her that is difficult for her to see. For me, I know that the hurt within me and the pain that she felt will serve as boundaries forever. In my heart, I know I will not cheat again. The question is whether LF will ever feel that reassurance.
So, what does your H say? What are his actions like? Is he giving you reassurance and do you feel the sincerity and the conviction behind his voice?
The ugly truth is that life has no guarantees and yes, all things are possible but you canít go through life fearing only the worst. A remorseful WS, in my opinion, is worth trusting your heart to once more.
Making a Different Choice Gives You the Opportunity to Live a Different Life - Anon
[This message edited by HUFI-PUFI at 9:11 AM, May 4th (Wednesday)]