LovingASoldier - WH has said lots of sweet, nice, cutesy things to his OW's. It's been an issue. and I kept telling him that I needed to hear those things. ... He said he's trying but that he finds it really hard to express feelings like that to me, but he has no idea why it's difficult for him. Does anyone have any ideas as to why this could be?
Raise my hand rather sheepishly. I have the same problem with LF right now. Expressing my love to her before the affair had never been a problem. Iím fluent, confident and the words and actions just came naturally. Then the affair. Poof, all of a sudden, I am struggling. LF fears that itís symptomatic of the fact that my feelings still belong to the AP but I know better. I believe it has a lot to do with guilt and shame and the look of hurt and disbelief in her eyes when I say things.
Leftoolate - Could be he does want to express his actual feelings at that moment, and he trips over trying to recognize them, name them and express them eloquently in the face of the woman he betrayed. That would freeze me, too, probably.
Of course, you donít know what itís like to look into the eyes of your spouse and have to see these new emotions. Fear, worry. There is the disbelief that I can see, plain as day, when I whisper I love you. I can sense her body drawing tight and this withdrawal. It triggers something inside me, a protective action of a sort that says, if it hurts her to hear this, stop saying it. Donít tell her things that she is not ready to hear and trust. Donít remind her of the things that you said to the AP. Donít push your love on the woman that you obviously just devastated by the affair.
Itís not easy to resolve this problem. I am learning to try and dig beyond those immediate feelings of fear and rejection and trying to connect to the deeper feelings of love that are inside me. I have to remind myself that as much as hearing those words can trigger and hurt LF, not hearing them is just as dangerous and just as harmful.
In addition to the other advice given, perhaps you can try to start the process of rewiring his brain by having him write down his feelings. Ask him to write a poem or a sentence and give it to you. He could leave you a love note every day. Doesnít have to be long or overly eloquent but if he starts off by writing and doesnít trigger with fear/rejection, it might allow him to progress to telling you these things directly. Worth a try.
Have you read the Chapman book on the 5 languages of love? Do you know what your languages are? Perhaps, if words are not really his top language, you could go to here and check this site out. http://www.minthegap.com/2007/04/30/101-ways-to-say-i-love-you-without-saying-it/
1. How is the fog different for the WH that has multi A/s and/or "just sex" rather than fantasy "love"?
2. Has WS pushed their spouse for sex while in an affair (not for cover up) before d-day, Why?
I'm not sure I pushed my BH more for sex, but I certainly wanted it more. My affair definitely awakened me sexually, so I was just more interested in general. After I ended the A, it was a renewed desire to bond with him.
3. Has any WS whose BS wasn't ready to make a decision for R or D, and truthfully told WS this, and BS was doing only 180 for herself, able to make it R work? Or even strong enough to try?
Sadly, we were unable to make R work. A year into our supposed reconciliation, he began an affair of his own which I discovered a year after that. We did not recover.
4. How long does it take a WS to see how they treated BS badly when in A? I guess that's called Not compartimentalizing (sp) very well?
I defogged fairly quickly after ending the affair. It was almost immediate.
Hope that helps.
During the time of your A's, did you ever reveal it to anyone? My H never told a soul...not even his best friend who would never have told me or let on if he knew. I also this friend has has chances to cheat on his own GF but has not. I have been witness to it.
So my question is, if you did not tell anyone, why? Was it in fear that it would get back to your spouse, were you ashamed...or other reason?
I dont even know why I am asking but my H has sort of said that he was ashamed...even now he has begged me not to tell any close friends or family...
I would like to hear from waywards about your feelings with regard to the betrayed spouse hurting your chances at R.
Throughout this journey towards reconciling I have pushed my FWW away many times. There are moments when the pain and anger cause me to shut down and close off my heart to her. My IC told me the other day that if I want to R I need to make space in my heart for her and allow her fill that space. That is easier said than done some days. My IC also said that the only person standing in the way of R is me.
I love my wife and I want to enjoy life with her again and I hope Iím not hurting my chances at having a good life together. Letís all leave the ďshe messed up those chances by having an AĒ out of this. We know the A happened letís talk about moving forward from here.
So my question is, if you did not tell anyone, why? Was it in fear that it would get back to your spouse, were you ashamed...or other reason?
I told NO ONE about my A when it was going on, largely for fear of being exposed. I took zero chances. None. There was shame there, too, absolutely. I knew it was wrong and feared being judged.
Ironically, now that my A is long over, I have told many people about it. It's my BH/WH that would prefer it be kept a secret. He finds it extremely shameful.
Miss.ery - How is the fog different for the WH that has multi A/s and/or "just sex" rather than fantasy "love"?
Of course, I canít talk for your situation specifically but IMHO, the fog is different for everyone on a one to one situation. The fog talks about the confusion that is within the WS regarding the reasons for the affair and the decisions needed in the aftermath of the affair. So, for those that had a long term relationship, itís easy to see that the WS could actually develop some positive feeling during the affair that he would have withdrawal symptoms from following the end of the affair. The fog would mean that he could end up second guessing himself in the early days afterward, vacillating between doing R or leaving for the AP. For those that had a purely sexual ONS, there might not be any feelings for the AP cluttering up but the thrill and excitement still might be attractive to the WS especially if one of the issues in the marriage was of a sexual nature. Either way, for some, the fog burns off quick and easy and for others it lingers on for quite some time. In my opinion, the 180 directly applied tends to burn off the fog pretty damn quick. Finding a packed suitcase on the door step tends to clarify things quite quickly.
Miss.ery - Has WS pushed their spouse for sex while in an affair (not for cover up) before d-day, Why?
What do you mean pushed for sex? Are you saying that your H pushed for a higher frequency of sexual times with you during the A? If that is the case, I would suspect that he was trying to fulfil his desires and wants with you in some unconscious manner with the guilt that he was feeling for already doing it in the real world with his A. This is really something that you need to address with him.
Miss.ery - Has any WS whose BS wasn't ready to make a decision for R or D, and truthfully told WS this, and BS was doing only 180 for herself, able to make it R work? Or even strong enough to try?
A lot of us WSís who are here, trying to work out our own issues and work on our marriages have BSís who are practicing the 180 to some degree or other. The 180 isnít about punishing the WS, itís about building a stronger BS. Itís often said that it takes time to make decisions and quite often, BSís are told to take a year before making the huge decision to D. In that time period, you work on R but that should not preclude working on yourself and it should not prevent your H from working on himself either. Sometimes, itís one or two years after D-day, even with both couples working on R that one or the other partner comes to a new decision and decides to call it quit.
Miss.ery - How long does it take a WS to see how they treated BS badly when in A? I guess that's called Not compartimentalizing (sp) very well?
I saw badly I hurt LF in the instant that she started to cry on D-day. Every day after that, it has become more and more apparent that I have destroyed my wife. For some WSís, well, that might never happen. Some people have posted that while they regret their affairs, they have never felt remorseful. Itís as individual as anything else here.
soso1110 - During the time of your A's, did you ever reveal it to anyone? I donít even know why I am asking but my H has sort of said that he was ashamed...even now he has begged me not to tell any close friends or family.
Hmmm ... well, my twin brother knew of the affair right from the get go but I always trusted that he would never tell anyone. A few co-workers knew of my affair but since this was on the other side of the world than my wife was, it wasnít an issue.
I can understand why your H is embarrassed and ashamed of his actions. Itís not easy for the ego to face the ďburst bubbleĒ of integrity and respect that you have created when everyone knows of your personal failures.
However, itís been said that confessing is good for the soul. Telling people of your failure means that you are not carrying around a dark secret for the rest of your life. The truth is that it might come out sooner rather than latter and by telling people yourself, you do get the ďat least he was honest enough to confessĒ pat on the back.
If he has problems with this, he can do a on-line confession at any number of sites.
The issue of telling people of the affair is quite a personal one. There are posters who have come to regret making their affairs public and there are also people whoo made "confession" a requirement for R to proceed.
You and your H should talk about this.
[This message edited by HUFI-PUFI at 11:38 AM, May 4th (Wednesday)]
Jay1029 -My IC told me the other day that if I want to R I need to make space in my heart for her and allow her fill that space. That is easier said than done some days. My IC also said that the only person standing in the way of R is me. ... Do you feel your BS is hurting R?
I think that your IC is right at one level. I am reminded of a quote when I think of this issue and right now, I think that at times, LF and I are here.
Trytoforgive - As remorseful WS's, it is hard to know when let go of the reins and know that they truly are responsible for their healing, as well. We can stop the bleeding, but we can't give them the will to live, KWIM?
I can be trustworthy but LF is the one that has to trust. I can stop lying but LF is the one that has to hear honesty. I can become a man of integrity but LF is the one that has see me as honourable once more.
So, in that respect, itís not just a matter of your H performing certain actions and saying the right words, itís a matter of you believing in your heart and soul that he is doing these for the right reasons and that means out of love for you. The problem that I see is that after your heart is broken, crushed and stamped on; itís hard if not impossible to do that other than by baby steps.
If you ask me if I feel that LF is hurting our chances at R, the short answer is a resound no but itís a complex question. Itís not that her actions are hurting our chances (in an active verb sense) but rather, itís more like an inactive verb of hindering the chances that R will occur. The phrase ďhurtingĒ seems to imply an active mechanism and thatís not the case here. Itís more that her inability to let go is creating a condition that slows down R or perhaps frustrates R more than anything else. I think that along with trying to deal with the shitstorm of crap that the affair brings forth for the WS to handle (guilt, shame, self-loathing and the utter gut wrenching realization that this is our entire fault), there exists this need for hope that R can work. While the desire and commitment to heal and move forward has to be found within the WS, there is this part that must come from the BS. Without that "hope" being shown, I think even the most remorseful WS will falter and stumble during R.
For instance, if she never learns to trust me again, how does this impact her ability to see me other than in a negative point of view? Itís not that she is not getting to a blind trust level, but rather, she is still actively not trusting, if you can see the analogy.
Either way, there are times when I am the one facing the learning curve and at other, she is. There is no doubt that itís the needs/wants inside us, manifested by our hopes and fears, which are the limitations to our growth. The difficult thing is that itís like asking the crippled man with no legs to run a marathon. Yes, he can propel himself along with his hands but it will never be a smooth graceful stroll anymore. And of course, as the WS, the reason behind LFís limitation is my entire fault. After all, until I created this mess, she would never have to try and heal from unimaginable hurt and pain. She would have never had to grow and conquer these issues except for the fact that I failed to grow up and conquer my own issues before hand. Sigh.
DECIDE. CHOOSE. COMMIT. PERIOD
Question for Waywards Ė Do you feel your BS is hurting R?
Yes and no. My BH wanted to R, but didn't want to do MC or IC. He didn't want to talk about it. He didn't want any physical intimacy for (gasp) two years. But I do believe he is and was trying his hardest and had to find his own path to heal.
I think you have to be careful as the BS not to let the WS off the hook or worry about hurting our feelings. The WS needs to take accountability 100% for the affair...no excuses. Anything less is not ok.
I have no issues with not telling anyone now. As I feel some shame as well...I know I shouldn't but I do. I was just thinking that if the A was so exciting and all, why didnt he tell anyone it was going on or try to "show off" OW. I know his case is a little different that a lot of the A's I read about on here. He told her he did not love and had no intentions of leaving his family. They never went out in public together. The acts were done at her house. They never spent more then 2 hours tops together at a time.
So for me it seems like he knew all along it was something he should be ashamed of and that pisses me off even more..why keep doing it then?
[This message edited by soso1110 at 11:32 AM, May 5th (Thursday)]
If you have a question for the WS's here, you may post it on this thread.
Otherwise, please do not answer by proxy. This thread is strictly for WS's to answer questions, should they feel the need to.
"I'm happily indifferent to the ones who have consistently been wrong" ~kd lang~
I don't think I specifically told anyone about what I was doing, but at the same time, I talked with two different co-workers about "marriage situations". They immediately called my bluff and asked what was going on and information started coming out from there. Since both of those coworkers knew my BW, they were basically shocked that I would do anything like that to jeopardize my M.
Simply, my reasons for even attempting to broach the subject with either of them was that I couldn't figure out what I was doing. I couldn't contain it, not out of any "pride" or showing off, but because of how confusing everything was. I was asking for help, but in my WH state of mind, I was trying to find justification from others that what I was in the process of doing was acceptable.
I can't say I was ashamed at the time, but I definitely knew something wasn't right about what was going on.
Now, it is a matter of fact. If someone asks, I tell them what I did. If the subject comes up, I will offer my perspective. I am not afraid of it. It happened and I am fixing it.
I didn't tell a soul.I was terribly ashamed.
Can anyone shed some light on this behavior? Could he be that "in the fog" that he has really convinced himself of this? Because I have to say his outright denial kind of frightens me.
I've never really understood the outright denial of hard facts when it comes to a WS being caught in the act (in bed). Really, at that point, what can he say? You are best off ignoring any of his responses until he realizes that you aren't going to take his answers (which must be true because that is what he is saying... ...he can hear the words coming out of his mouth, so it must be true... ). Anyway, that is the point at which the fog comes into effect.
Along the way you may likely experience the blameshifting and gaslighting that occurs post d-day. Just hold on and don't take his shit. He has to own that and it will probably take a while for him to realize it.
Buckle down and start talking to the BS's here who have been through all of this before.
What BaxtersBFF said is true. I just want to add that I think a lot of Waywards have very poor coping mechanisms and avoid confrontation. It is easier to lie, no matter how stupid. there is fear of being seen for what you really are...so illogically, you lie. Facing the mirror sucks. It is easier to blame someone else, usually the BS, minimize, TT, gaslight, etc. No one wants to think of themselves as a bad person.
Not meant to sound like an excuse. Just my 2 cents.
So if the typical and illogical behavior, lies, blame shifting, gaslighting, etc., occurs because the WS usually has poor coping mechanisms and avoids confrontation, what is it that would make him/her turn it around. If this is how they've dealt with bad situations all their lives, what would make this situation different? I guess what I'm asking is what switch occurs in the mind to make them realize that they've screwed up, lost their family and hurt the BS beyond belief???? It's clearly nothing that we would ever say or do to turn things around - so how does the WS get there?
By deciding to face the truth. By confronting his or herself head- on. By becoming an authentic person. I don't think in most cases this is a 180 degree change. It is a matter of facing the bad, and changing those parts.
I think the hurt and devastation created by an A can cause a WS to hit rock bottom...but the realization that this is not who you are has to come from