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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS- Part 5
painpaingoaway
♀ Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, August 20th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But if your BS specifically asked you to tell them something negative about the OP, would you tell them, or would you say,
I don't want to waste one minute stoking my negative feelings about him

If your BS told you that it would help them heal to hear you say something negative about the OP, wouldn't you comply, simply to help them even if you did not agree with the concept?

Do you think that any Wayward who says he or she has nothing negative is blocking?
Yes I do. How could it not be? No one is perfect. There has to be something negative. Or does the WS just view the OP thru rose-colored glasses?

But US,

but why would I expend any energy in that direction? That person has no impact on my life.
that person had a HUGE impact on MY life.

Now GZ,

If the OP has a flaw, the logical response might be "Why would you risk your marriage on someone who was rude to waitstaff, or smelled like BO all the time, or [pick your flaw]." I don't think that's healthy, but I don't think it's evidence that your fWS really thinks the OP is perfect in every way, just that your fWS is unwilling to look in the mirror and see how broken he is.

As I reread the responses, ^this^ is starting to make sense to me. Maybe that's it.

I asked FWH this morning, if I had been the unfaithful to him, aside from the overall hurt, lies and deceit, what would be the most personally gut-wrenching aspect of it too him, and he said, "the thought that the other man may have been 'bigger, or bed in bed, or more sexually satisfying to you...". And I said "BINGO"! Now, what if I never said anything negative about that man's 'manhood', and I just allowed you wonder forever if I had had 'better' than you? How would that make you feel? And all he could say was, "I guess I wouldn't like that". Duh. Silence. Is he stupid? Does he not see where I am going with this? Or is this just another tactic to avoid talking about it?


me BS female 55/him WS 58
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 6763 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, August 20th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

painpain - That person did not have an impact on your life. That figurehead did.

I'm my case, the OP was the third target - the other two did not respond. If it had been the first guy, okay... He was prematurely balding. If it had been the second guy, well, he was too OCD. The actual OP, um, he didn't understand a lot of American colloquialism.

The OP didn't matter. The OP was the person who responded.

If you want their bad points and you believe them, then do you also believe the good points? If your H said "she was bad at sex", then is the converse true, that she was a good listener? If her breath stank, then was she intelligent? And if she stank, had greasy hair, and was bad in bad, would you wonder why he was with her when he has you?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, August 20th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

duplicate

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 4:46 PM, August 20th (Saturday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
painpaingoaway
♀ Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, August 20th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe I'm the stupid one.


me BS female 55/him WS 58
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 6763 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, August 20th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

painpain, I understand what you're saying, and yes, I did acknowledge the negative things about the OP. That's not my point. Yes, the OP helped your WS hurt you, so of course you want to hear bad things about her. Would your H even acknowledge that an honorable person wouldn't help a married man cheat? Would he acknowledge that she helped him deceive and betray you and in that respect, at least, was not acting like a good person? If he's willing to admit to that, that's a start.

Like US said, for most WSes, the OP could have been anyone. For a BS, it was a specific someone, so that must mean there was something special about them. That's not so. It's not about the OP. Ever. It's always about the WS and their issues. Maybe for your H it's not about acknowledging the negative stuff about the OW, but about not being willing to accept the negative stuff about himself. Until he does that, he won't heal and any changes he's trying to make won't be real, IMO. To change, you have to understand what needs to be changed in the first place.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
Miss Saigon
♀ Member
Member # 31965
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, August 20th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The OP didn't matter. The OP was the person who responded


the OP could have been anyone


when i asked my H what so special about her, he just said nothing special about her.


BS - me 43
WH - 39
2 kids - ages 7 & 4
together 10 yrs, married 7 yrs

rather than love, than money, than faith, than fame, than fairness... give me truth.
-H Thoreau


Posts: 73 | Registered: Apr 2011
painpaingoaway
♀ Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, August 20th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know it's about him, and his weakness and broken-ness. Logically, I know that.

But my heart is broken. My trust is destroyed.

He has been a model FWS for quite a while, but TT came out in June that the OP was NOT just a woman he met in a bar, but a stripper/prostitute he met in the nastiest underground strip club in out state. The reports I've read about the place in the USA sex guide are so repulsive that I retch when I read them. The men that frequent the place also frequent the drug addicted street walkers nearby. Anything goes in this club, 'dine-in, or take-out'.

She gave him an STD which he passed to me.

My doc is the one that told me he was cheating on me. I would not believe it. I argued with my doc. I believed in my H so much that I accused my doc of infecting me with the STD by using unsterilized equipment in his office....I made a complete idiot of myself defending my H.

I made a fool of myself.

And the SOB can't find anything bad to say about her?

I know y'all are just trying to help, and I am beating a dead horse.

I just having a really bad day.

Checked the history on the computer the other day for the first time in over a year. He had looked at porn. I was crushed.

I had never been concerned with porn before, because as far as I had always known, he rarely looked at it.

I never said it was a deal breaker.

But the other nite he said he was too tired for sex. I went to sleep. He must have gotten up the minute I went to sleep and typed in 'anal sex'.
Rimming, licking...nice huh?

He did fully admit to it the next day when confronted, but it broke my heart all over again.


me BS female 55/him WS 58
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 6763 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, August 20th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It makes sense that you're having a terrible time with this, and with the recent discovery of porn.. that doesn't help much, I'm sure. The thing to remember is that we're answering you from our experience.

In spite of how similar all WSes seem, we ARE different from each other in many ways. We can't answer for your H, we can only tell you where WE were during the A. It sounds like you have some decisions to make and you're looking for answers that might relate to your situation. I'm sorry that this thread hasn't been much help in that respect. At some point he'll have to find an answer or you'll have to figure out what that means for you and your future.

I'm sorry for your pain.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
DrivingPast
♀ Member
Member # 32984
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, August 21st (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Any WH have a problem with getting an erection after the confrontation/dday? Or other ED type problems with your wife.
What was the cause?

I realize it may be difficult to answer, but I just keep wondering... why?


BW
married more than 10 yrs to a possible SA
D-Day May 5 2011
"Because one knows people best through their fears - the ones they overcome and the ones they are overcome by."

Posts: 1304 | Registered: Aug 2011
Hope24
♀ Member
Member # 9344
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, August 22nd (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Painpain:

In the early stages after I ended the A, and again after d-day, I had plenty of negativity aimed at OM. Plenty. It helped me detach from him. It also helped me keep the blame squarely on OM and away from myself.

As I matured in my growth and healing, I realized that he was irrelevant as Fallen and US are trying to convey.

Given that OW was an STD-laden prostitute, it's difficult to understand why your WH wouldn't chastise her in any way, especially this early on.

Is it that he holds her in high regard or that she's really a nameless, faceless woman he paid to have sex with him and therefore a blip on the radar screen?

If it's the latter, what purpose does it serve for him to deride her? Do you really need him to talk poorly of her to know she didn't matter? You already know that, right?

If it's the former (as in, he thinks well of this woman), then I'm truly at a loss for words.


She packed up her potential and all she had learned and headed out to change a few things.

Posts: 7603 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: Poolside
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, August 23rd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Drivingpast,

I need to qualify this by stating that I was involved in an EA, mostly long-distance, and it never really went sexual, although there was some tension happening...

That being said, I think that failure of the WH to get or maintain an erection, as it relates to an A situation, has to do with the mental state of the WH. Using fancier words, I think it is a physical manifestation of the amount of guilt and realization of what the WH has done to their BW.

It's weird though, that while the WH not being able to get an erection may be equated to the WH realization of the situation, some WH will not admit that realization or accept it. Their own bodies are giving them away.

I have not looked into ED problems before, but I seriously doubt that failure to maintain an erection post d-day is the same as real ED problems.

Just my two cents...


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
Dallas2
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Member # 28362
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, August 23rd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How can you tell us it just happened?

I really don't get it. Maybe the attraction just happened. That I can understand but from there I can't.

If you meet the AP more than once, how can you tell us it meant nothing to you?

To me this is just another lie the WS tell themselves and their BS. Why is it so hard to admit what really went on?

Last question: How do you live with yourself knowing what you've done to destroy yourself, your BS, and possibly your AP?


Me

Posts: 791 | Registered: Apr 2010
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, August 23rd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dallas2 -

How can you tell us it just happened?

Waywards who are not remorseful are not allowed on this website. You will not find anyone here who says "it just happened".

If you meet the AP more than once, how can you tell us it meant nothing to you?

Think of the affair like an addiction. Once you have broken through one barrier, it is easier to break through it again when you need a fix the next time. For me, once I had actually said those words, it was easier to say them again.

How do you live with yourself knowing what you've done to destroy yourself, your BS, and possibly your AP?

This question feels hostile. What are you really asking?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
helpemegetoverit
♀ Member
Member # 30242
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, August 23rd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How can you tell us it just happened?

In my opinion, we can't. I would NEVER tell my BH that 'it just happened' because it didn't. I guess MAYBE I could see saying that for a one night drunken hookup, maybe...and even then there are obviously underlying issues...but anything more than that? In my opinion, we can't and shouldn't. (sorry if that is harsh on your WS)

If you meet the AP more than once, how can you tell us it meant nothing to you?

Again, we can't. While it may have not been an emotional affair, it most certainly meant 'something'. What, is the question? Was it just providing us with exciting sexual experiences that we were missing? Was it giving us external validation? Was it done as an exit affair? There are so many answers here, but to say it meant 'nothing' is mitigating it. Most likely, your WS is just saying that it was not an emotional affair.

The most important question is WHY. It can take years for a WS to figure this out (if they do).


To me this is just another lie the WS tell themselves and their BS. Why is it so hard to admit what really went on?

Because they are afraid if they admit their deepest darkest feelings about it and about their marriage, you will leave. (Again, in my opinon)

Last question: How do you live with yourself knowing what you've done to destroy yourself, your BS, and possibly your AP?

This is hard for me to answer and something I still struggle with (as does my husband, especially given my AP had just gotten married and has no kids, but knows we have little kids...so he also wonders how my AP could have done this with me particularly).

But honestly? In the end it was me and AP who made his choice and I made mine. Neither of us was doing it to 'hurt' the other BS and family (in my case). We both have issues, big ones, and our paths crossed at the wrong time. While I feel horrible that my actions hurt another individual (his wife in this case)...he was the one who started the affair after being married a few months and he was the one who had strayed previously before they got married. I am owning up to my actions in my marriage, and I'm assuming he is doing the same in his. I didn't force him to have an affair, and he didn't force me....while at times we flipped roles as the 'pursuer', in the end it was 50/50 during the 11 months. So, while it is hard to move forward in my life knowing what I did to my family, my husband, etc....HE did what he did to his wife. He made his own decision, as did I :-(.

[This message edited by helpemegetoverit at 1:47 PM, August 23rd (Tuesday)]


Me: WW
Him: BH
Intuition is not a gift, but a skill based in self esteem.

Posts: 872 | Registered: Nov 2010
wwnomore
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Member # 31675
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, August 23rd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dallas2

It Just Happened

Means that the WS didn't go looking for it, but didn't say NO to it either. I take this as a statement as to intent. My AP would say that about our A....I was the one that sought him out. He took the bait. He would never admit that he could have said no.

If you meet the AP more than once, how can you tell us it meant nothing to you?

It did mean something at the time, but not as much as the BS meant to the WS. Once that line has been crossed, it is so much easier to cross it again. It is a high, much like a drug. Or, we have yet to identify what it did mean.

Why is it so hard to admit what really went on?

Because it is such a shameful and degrading thing to have to tell you. We do not want to have to pour salt into your wounds. Also, because we are unsure of how much you really want to know. Ask very specific questions and be prepared for the answers is the best advice I can give here.

How do you live with yourself knowing what you've done to destroy yourself, your BS, and possibly your AP?

I work hard on healing myself. I ended the M as there was no going back after what I did. He will now be able to find someone who loves and respects him. I do not think our M would have ever healed. My A would forever be in the background.

As for AP, I stay away and pray he gets the help he needs in order to be the H his BW deserves. He is a grown man and I am not repsonsible for him and his choices. If she ever came calling looking for answers, I would give them.


Posts: 489 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Mid-Atlantic
crossroads2010
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Member # 30213
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, August 23rd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

painpain...

as a BS I feel your pain, but I understand that a WS who has to put it behind has to put the OP out of mind totally and if by not regarding that person at all, good, bad or otherwise, it removes them and makes them insignificant than I am all for it. It is just that most of us BSs heard aur WS words and read texts and emails, ect that put the OP on a pedestal (the rose colored glasses) while WSs were still in the fog and these things stick with us long after the AP is gone. My WH will nevr say the OW was broken and manipulative or anything bad about her even though I think he knows it. He still says he would never be mean to her if she made contact. For a long time I wished he would say bad things about her and hate her b/c somehow in my mind that would compensate for putting her feeling above mine. Now I really don't want him to mention her at all...she has taken up too much space in my life already. this doesn't mean you can't hate her think what you want about her...I don't know...
maybe I am just at the point where it doesn't matter who she is, or why he did this, or how it came to be...the fact that this has changed me and my relationship with my H and the way I view my life is forever changed and it is irreversible ... just try to accept that and move on in what way is best for you...it is just too exhausting to anything else. I wish you peace.


Posts: 509 | Registered: Nov 2010
ForwardMotion
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Member # 32608
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, August 24th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi folks. Posted this in Recon, thought I'd put it out here too. I appreciate your insights.

Rough night Monday. FWW went to the post office to mail our kids some packages and saw a man in line that strongly resembled OM (it was not him…he’s half a continent away). She had an anxiety attack. She did not tell me right away. I got home from work and she was obviously upset…had been drinking a bit and emotional. She wanted to be held all evening and fell asleep before 10. She woke me around 1 and wanted to talk…told me what happened and we discussed various A issues until dawn. She went through an entire box of tissues. She is very disgusted with herself and feels physically ill when thinking of her actions and the OM. We have had NC since his last fishing attempt in November last year. I have significant monitoring in place and there have been no attempts from her end to contact him, and no indicators that I should be wary. Overall, we are doing well.
We’ve talked a lot about her whys. Her weak boundary for this old flame that waltzed in and gave her validation when she was feeling bad about herself due to lack of job, empty nest, festering marital issues, etc., you know the litany of items. She has issues with self-esteem & FOO, but this is the only instance that I’ve observed a weak relationship boundary. We’ve done some counseling and gone through a lot of resources around her real core issues. We’re making headway, but there’s still a long way to go.

I told her that she was moving through stages of healing and that true indifference to OM was the goal. Right now she has a mixture of revulsion and anger, aimed at both herself and OM. I’m looking for thoughts on how long it might take to move through this stage for her, and what kinds of things people have found helpful in progressing.
Thanks.


me - BH

'It's not the end of everything,
It's just end of everything you know.'


Posts: 399 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Tejas
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, August 24th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My question in regard to negative comments about OP's that BS's want to hear.......Wouldn't my former cheating h be considered an OP as well as the OP herself? And if so, wouldn't any negative comment about his op be a reflection on him just as it would her? Wouldn't it be like looking in the mirror and making negative statements about himself in as much as it would be a negative comment about her?

Although my h has made many derogatory comments about his op, he tends to shy away from to many negative comments about her. I believe he does this as a way to conceal the fact that he was just as evil as her. At least that is how I take it to be.

[This message edited by TICKED OFF at 9:07 PM, August 24th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2386 | Registered: Sep 2005
Hope24
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Member # 9344
Default  Posted: 5:15 AM, August 25th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TICKEDOFF:

Wouldn't my former cheating h be considered an OP as well as the OP herself? And if so, wouldn't any negative comment about his op be a reflection on him just as it would her? Wouldn't it be like looking in the mirror and making negative statements about himself in as much as it would be a negative comment about her?

You're absolutely right, TO. Once a WS is accountable for their own behavior, the OP really is obsolete.

T/J - Long time no see, hon. Hope you're doing well.


She packed up her potential and all she had learned and headed out to change a few things.

Posts: 7603 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: Poolside
starlightsky
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Member # 32571
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, August 25th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my wh does not communicate with me at all. since the affair was outed to her H in may he said he was undecided & bc of alot of arguing about the OW & lies we decided to separate. Prior to that the affair was outed to me in oct. with a false R and continued communication i found out in april, he would do anything to try & R. but once the other womensH found out he didnt know what he wanted. since then he has lessened contact with the kids & I. it went from complete no communication aside from counseling recently once a week. unless i contact him about finances he only speaks to me in counseling. he lives with his parents right now. but before he didnt wanna goto counseling but bc i gave him a deadline to R or move out he said he wanted to try to R. the last session he said he is nervous bc he has to face what he has been trying to avoid for the past @ months & still isnt sure if he wants to R. it took me a month of IC when he chose not to go @ that time to decide to R. so ur therapist is giving him individual counseling for the same amount of time bc she says a decision needs to b made in order to move forward whether its together or apart. he acts strange. he will give me $ for finances and take care of anything i need repaired or to help me if i need him for anything. but as soon as we are alone when he drops off the $ he runs out of here like he wants to avoid any conversation. so i heard about the fog, but what is that. i dont know if he even is still talking to the OW. might i add we have been together for 9yrs. and the children are not his biologically he has raised them as his own and provided for them as such with objection from his mom. is there any advice u can give me to make sense of this?

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