I think he is on the slippery slope, and I don't want to go through it again. My friend pointed out to me the message left on his phone sounds like someone called a wrong number that had an appointment. The message stated, "Sorry, it looks like I won't be able to meet you on time. Thank you." When I listened to it again, I see what she means. The "thank you" is odd at the end. However, I think his behavior shows that he is indeed on the slippery slope again. I won't stay for it twice. I already gave him a second chance, and counselling seems to be making him worse. My friend thinks it's making him face things, and he is reacting. I emailed our counsellor, since he has been going on his own, and let her know that he hasn't been telling her the entire truth. He admitted this to me. For instance he told her I'm not willing to help him pay off the credit cards, but he did not tell her he is the one continuing to charge on them while he complains about the bills. And we had agreed to stop using them, as I have. I filled her in, and she told me she would address this with him next time. I showed him the email I sent her. I think he needs to deal with his issues, and stop blaming everyone around him.
[This message edited by nothereorthere at 2:25 AM, September 3rd (Saturday)]
Thank you for your post. I needed to hear that. Wish I could get through to him, but I'm tired of having good periods then always going back to this. I feel like I've tried so hard, and he's only put in half an attempt. Mostly, I'm sick and tired of his first reacting passive and then reacting angrily when something like the message comes up. If he's not guilty, he sure make himself look bad by reacting the way he does. Your right, that dosen't feel like remorse to me. I know it's been six years since his A, but I feel he should always answer me without anger when something looks suspicious and I ask him about it. I did not yell at him, I simply asked. So tired of trying. It's his turn. He needs to give me real incentive to stay, and I already have one foot out the door.
What do you suggest I do as far as drawing my line in the sand?
I treated my BW much the same way as your WH is treating you. She finally drew her line in the sand, but didn't tell me. She finally found SI and started a 180 on me. She had a bag packed and was ready to leave. She made a budget and everything. Didn't say a word to me. Then, because she left her email open one day, I found her profile on SI and read about her plans. That was cold hard dose of reality, because she wasn't going to take the kids. She was going to leave them with me. She was going to leave, but not allow me to continue on my fantasy. That's what it took. My BW finally stood up for herself and showed me a reality I was refusing to see.
So what is your line in the sand going to be?
Standard issue WS-speak going on there. Don't let him reel you into his way of thinking. Stick to what you know and take care of yourself. Don't let him play the nice guy by being wishy-washy.
He seems unsure as to whether I can meet those needs.
You can't. Neither can anyone else.
He sounds like he's believing his own lies to himself. It's always better somewhere else. Problem is he'll be wherever he goes so until he realizes he's what needs fixing this will be his pattern.
Doesn't have to be yours though. I'm sorry you're hurting.
'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth
Then afterwards, for up to about 8 months, he "couldn't decide" if I could actually meet his needs or not.
It wasn't until I took off my wedding ring, and stood my ground that he realized...well, maybe I *could* meet his needs after all.....
Now he has to meet MINE...
Today has been better - he's been more attentive, affectionate, and actively engaging with me than he has for a while. Not giving him a pass in any way, but I do appreciate the increased focusing of energy towards me.
So my question is straight up I need some advice. How do I help him thru this without destroying myself? I started taking ADs because of his lack of love for me. How do I help him find the answers to his questions? Is it normal for WSs to question EVERYTHING?
I also have some detailed questions I would like to ask any WS who are Christians. Please PM me if willing to answer. Thanks in advance. You don't know how you help me carry on.
Is it because I caught her or because she is blaming all her unhapiness on me?
Last question... Why if she has a lot to lose, she continues to behave in such an arrogant way towards me? She must know that If I prove her unfaithfulness I can leave her with nothing (my country's laws).
[This message edited by surviving101 at 9:38 AM, September 6th (Tuesday)]
He is now basing this on the fact that he had core values that conflict: he should stay and do everyting to work things out with me and the other value of he hurt me/ cheated on me so he needs to leave
Those aren't core values that conflict. If those were core values they'd actually dovetail nicely. Staying and do everything to help fix the pain and damage his choices caused.
The only way I'd see a conflict is if he feels he should stay but wants to go. I can understand feeling like he has caused you too much hurt. I feel like that is really a desire to escape being faced with a daily reminder of your pain from his actions.
Yes I think it can be normal for some WS's to question everything. If one acts in a way that is contrary to every core belief they ever had and betrayed their integrity and moral values as well as damaged the person they vowed to love and respect it can create quite a spiritual, emotional, crises. You cam feel you're losing your soul.
Those are very real consequences. It doesn't mean they need to be yours. You can decide that it's too much for you to have to deal with.
He needs to take charge and do what he needs to do to find his answers. Get into IC, talk to your pastor priest spiritual advisor, whatever he needs to help him find out his why's.
Looking to you for answers is not what he should be doing at all. The burden needs to be on him.
The only way to get sense into your WW's head for you is to make her face the consequences for her actions. If you have the proof, use it.
As for why she's acting the way she is...don't know. Don't know your wife. She could be pissed you're ruining her fun. She could be angry with you for some other reason and picked a horrible way to cope, could be projecting her angercat herself on you. There are countless reasons and only she knows them.
You need to take care of you.
My WW screwed her best friend's husband and now she is angry at me(?!)... Why?
Anger is a secondary emotion. It always covers something else up. What is she covering up? Fear? Pain? Shame?
She needs to explore this to figure it out. You cannot do it for her.
As for what you need to do now... show her the consequences of her action. Show her what life is like without you. Cut off her money, make her move out. Show her the reality of what will happen.
But only do it if you are willing to follow through. Do not make ultimatums you will not follow through on.
I agree that I should show her the consequences of her actions and remain strong, go to trail and convince the judge in order for me not to give her any assets in the D. The problem with this stance is that it means another fight, another violent stage... I am so tired... I just found out less than a month ago she was cheating, in that time I have come short to begging for her to remain in the marriage, I have suffered passive-aggressive attitudes, I have seen my hopes and my family crumble... and now "lets go to trail!"--- it is just that I wanted to take a breather and she won't let me... as if she wont rest until she burns every bridge there is out to save her.
[This message edited by surviving101 at 12:37 PM, September 6th (Tuesday)]
The fact is... you have already lost her. Your family is already broken up. The only thing that could possibly shake her into her senses would be if you took a hard stance.
Again, I am so sorry. You did nothing to deserve this and it is completely unfair.
My stbxwh cheated on me multiple times, all with single women. I tried to R for years and just couldn't. I knew it would happen again. Something finally snapped after the last one and I said I wanted him out.
He's been gone for 6 months now. We are separated but not divorced yet. He was dating before he even left our house. Many hookups from online dating sites. And now, he is involved with a close family friend, someone he dated even before me (we were high school sweethearts). She is married.
He knows what this has done to me. He sees what it's doing to our kids. The new GF has two kids of her own, so now there are more kids in the mix. I guess I'm wondering why, after all the damage that's been done, after all the pain he has caused our children, why, why why would he "move on" to a married woman?
I'm just stunned at this latest turn of events. It seems like all the years of infidelity and the resulting consequences really hasn't taught him a thing.
Can anyone help me possibly dig into what his thought process might be at this point? I know you can't speak for him. I'm just trying to understand why, after all the years of wanting someone else, now that he's technically free, why would he go into yet another affair with someone who isn't completely free?
Better off I sparkle on my own ~ Anna Nalick
The fourth time my FWH went to her for a counselling session, she told him she can't counsel us anymore as a couple, or me individually because she has formed an opinion. Also, my FWH told me the counsellor told him she knew from the beginning when she counselled us years ago that I did not like her. And, he says she told him she could tell this because she felt I didn't like something she said during a session.
First of all, I never disliked her. Secondly, I don't know what specifically she's talking about, but hasn't everyone that has gone to counselling not liked something the counsellor has said to them at least once?
I find this very unprofessional, and feel she could do more damage to us then be helpful. He has actually gotten more withdrawn and argumentive since he's been counselled by her individually.
Am I wrong to feel the counsellor is being unprofessional?
[This message edited by nothereorthere at 11:50 PM, September 7th (Wednesday)]
That being said- if the therapist is saying - I can't do marital counseling because they have become biased- that is a positive, but I caution- she may side with your husband on things maybe she shouldn't and then he will be enabled into not clear thinking. NUETRALITY is a must in therapy. You are not paying 100 per hour to talk to your best friend who sides with you because you are friends.
When we first started therapy we had a therapist who sided with WH on everything - including maintaining contact with OP. We talked about conversations those two had wth each other and they were clearly not work related- as they were talking about my work-WTF - she said that was perfectly fine for him and her to talk about me and our kids-they were friends of course-WTF-she rolled her eyes at me when I cried and said things like I was too emotional-WTF-
We quit seeing her and even my WH stated he knew she was biased. That no progress was being made and it allowed him to find yet another excuse during the fog to rationalize that the A was ok-Once we found a therapist that could remain nuetral and point out that any conversations were hurtful etc we started to make improvement. She neither sides with me of him-she makes us see the dynamics of our relationship and helps us come to a healthy place that suits us - not her beleifs.
That being said- the IC said she is biased - that is good - that is professional-Once again a Therapist is not your best friend- they are there to help you heal.
Take the advice and find a new MC and maybe gently tell you WS to look at the sessions he has with the therapist and ask is this helpful or not.
I used to be a therapist - so I know how hard it is to remain nuetral- they are human- just find one that works for you- I had clients leave me because I wasn't helping them- go to a different one and it worked- On the flip side - some came to me-that couldn't deal with someone else and I helped them.
I have a need to understand things- I admit it- I have went to one of the many many blog sites where Op's can address their trials and tribulations of being in an affair.
It is filled with - HE/she called me! topics or He/She came fishing! after they have been completely hurt and thrown to the side while the WS goes back to the BS. They get scraps of time a text that says - how are you and they think the Ws is totally in love with them. They get completely thrown under buses and then take the Ws back.
Is that why it is so hard to move on from an A? you have someone that hangs on every word - text and accepts scrapes of time just to see you- honestly - What kind of person accepts a 1 hour jaunt in the hay one time a week at 6:00am as - he is in love with me?
I go back to when I was dating and these guys who called and fawned over me- made me sick-too clingy too too much- I knew I could use them- I chose not to.
but during an A is it just a rush - knowing you can shag someone anytime and you can without even giving it a second thought - no worries.
My WS's Ap is still trying trying trying- OMG- 2 years girl- get a life-
I know WS is not seeing her- she can't get over a getting shagged for one hour once a week in the morning- not even at a decent hour- how desperate is she?
As I read these sites - so many of them do this- Why would a WS want anything to do with someone who has such low self esteem to take any scrap of time.
I am not trying to generalize all A's or Ap's - I know this doesn't fit all A's but it sure seems to fit many. Any words of wisdom on this- Is that what WS's want is a person who allows themselves to be trampled on and takes it and is that what is so alluring?
I am not trying to offend - it is just so odd to me.