Maybe the plane of lethal flatness?
While not the only reason I married FWW, a fun and exciting sex life was a part of it. Another reason was that she adored me. I realize now the adoration was not healthy, but it did feel good. So with two of the big reasons I fell in love with her gone, we are left with a history, kids, and we have fun sometimes. I am really hoping it gets better.
DS and I went to the beach and rented personal water craft (ďjet-skisĒ) for an hour this afternoon. FWW road around with me for a while, but said she was scared so I took her back into the beach. DS and I really opened them up then and had a ball except I took a spill while racing him and lost my glasses. It was fun, and I did not think of A stuff at all.
I have the beer on ice, the grill is ready for marinated chicken and I will be watching the Gators win the SEC east tonight on TV. This will be DS18's last game of the season marching with the band. My life is really OK, it would be nice someday to have a partner.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 4:45 PM, November 13th (Saturday)]
Strongish: it's so hard now when it comes to sex. During false R, I really didn't want to because of feelings, but decided, as Allgood said, to just go for the "sex" and not the love making per se.
Ats, for me, I have missed "making love" for a long long time. For years, I thought WH and I were making love, but somehow, I didn't feel emotionally satisfied. Physically, it was fine. But the INTIMACY, true intimacy was missing. WH still said all his pretty words, etc, so I couldn't put my finger on it.
I miss having a partner too.
I had been trying to avoid divorce because I know the pain involved and some things just never go away.
Last night, I stopped over DS 30's house and was having a pleasant conversation with him and his gf. DS 35 was out to dinner with his father for his birthday. DS30 gets a text and starts laughing. It was xWH's wife(good lady) DS30 is laughing and telling us about the joke and tells me that DS 35 is with myxWH and his wife at some restaurant/comedy club they always go to. I left a few minutes later, got in my car and broke down crying.
It wasn't that I was jealous of xWH's wife, a good lady who has always acted loving and kind to DS's, more like an aunt. It was just the FEELING that that should have been MY life. I should have been there with DS 35 and his father. No broken marriage. That was my plan. To raise the DS's, go out a lot with my husband(xWH was always out drinking....now he's grown up and stays home with wife and goes out all the time with her), go on trips, etc.
It wasn't so much I missed xWH so much, but the life I lost.....TWICE.
Now DS 30 wants me and the younger DS's to go to his house for Thanksgiving with xWH and wife and HER mother, and MY mother and gf's family. I'm triggering so much, I don't know if I can do it.
It never ends this betrayal. I thought I was over it, had gone beyond it. I DID forgive xWH (circumstances were sooooo different) and he didn't put me through hell.
IC says that even if the wound is healed, there is a new wound right on top of it and opening it all up again.
Path of least regret as Miracle says. Sometimes, you don't get to choose.
It was just the FEELING that that should have been MY life.
I'm so sorry. I could feel the pain in your last post. Life has been incredibly cruel to you.
I can really understand what you mean by having a "partner" - someone to share with. Trouble is I think their selfishness means that we will never have our dream 100% so many of us settle for a partner who is 90 or even 80% with us (probably less!) because of the "path of least regret. Yep we settle for a poor partner rather than none at all!!!
I really am so sorry honest
I do not think this is looking good for R.
I am a sociopath.
honest, that is so tough. Of course if you werenít in this sitch with WH, you wouldnít be feeling like this about your xH. I donít know what to suggest, but itís good that your DSís think that their parents and their step-mom get on well enough to celebrate Thanksgiving together. Either way, itís going to hurt. Iíd like to think I could do it for my DSís. Where will your younger DSís be, btw? Are they going to or are they somewhere else? And where will your WH be?
but the life I lost.....TWICE.
Strongish, do what you are comfortable with. After the HB came the low and I didnít want FWH anywhere near me sexually. But I realised I had to take back what was mine. Oh sure, he fucked MOW, told her how great she was, had her lying in his arms afterwards, but she is NOT ME. Never was, however much she wanted. So for a while, I went to the same place I would go to when he was in the affair. Sex was pretty perfunctory, so I had to get a move on if I wanted my ďreliefĒ, as it were. Mostly, I got there. I concentrated on ME. I got WH to do what I wanted and made sure he waited if I wanted him to. I got selfish. Try it.
My BFF just told me earlier this morning that there were/are so many times that she has had the impression that FWH just didn't appreciate me,
Ats: "Catty" girl talk is what you overheard. WW can't admit to her DD that there is something wrong with HER, so you are to blame. I'm so sorry. They got together and did some gossipy "Ats bashing".
You are NOT a sociopath!!!!
Ats: I agree with the consensus so far which states that your W's words are complete BS. (How did you find out about this? Did she relate the story to you? Just curious.)
Honest: I'm sorry you are down. If you don't think you can be happy at your x's then take a pass. Would you be happy spending it with just your younger kids?
I think it's nice you were invited, tho obviously I see why you are saddened by the whole thing.
Please, please, please go register for school asap.
I have been doing well the last 2 days, not sure if that's directly related to the amount of alcohol I've consumed or not... lol, but anyway it's nice.
Not like I have high hopes for my M, but like I don't want to kill my H or cry. So that's good. Lol.
A peaceful night to all.
Sorry that you have been struggling so much lately.All I can say is that Reconciling after an LTA is not for the faint of heart. it is hard work and it is an emotional rollercoaster ride.
This January will be 4 yrs since d-day for me and I still think about the LTA every single day. I still have triggers and meltdowns. The only difference is that they do not happen as often and they do not last as long. I am also able to often push the negative thoughts away and focus on my life now.
And... my husband is doing everything in his power to make things right. he is remorseful, loving, kind...he bends over backwards every day to make it up to me. He continues to be sober and continues going to AA meetings. He is a changed man in many ways in terms of how he acts and how he looks at the world.
The only thing that he will no longer do is talk about the affair! (but, I guess after 4 yrs he has point in saying that there is nothing more that he can say...although, LOL with my obsessive thinking I could think of a new question about the LTA and the OW on a daily basis!).
So, Allgood... in my opinion, you're still a relative 'newbie' in terms recovery and reconciliation.
I cried every single day for over a year... then it was a few times per week for the next year... now...only once every few months...but, for me..it has been a long recovery process.
Then again...it was a LTA.
Honest- So sorry to hear how sad you have been lately.
I also chime in with the others (as a daughter of a BPD mother). You cannot ever consider living with her under the same roof! She will drive you crazy! You can help her, be there for her but, do not live with her! And, about your Thanksgiving invite from your 1st ex... it's nice that they want to include you but... I can certainly understand why you would not feel strong enough to sit through dinner with him and his wife (as nice as she may be). Maybe in the future, when you're completely done with your now husband and have found yourself in a happier place...maybe then you could face a dinner with the ex and your sons.
For this year... do you have any friends that you could go to dinner with? or... could you go away somewhere? a mini vacation for yourself and your younger sons to Fla.? ask your husband to pay for it! if not...then stay busy... I know a divorced friend that now volunteers at a soup kitchen on Thanksgiving to keep her mind off of her own troubles.
Sorry that things are not going well with your wife.Her depression and distancing sounded bad enough. But, now..reading that she was badmouthing you to her daughter! calling you a sociopath! Well, that just does not sound like a remorseful WS that is 100% comitted to reconciliation.
Why is she so angry with you?
Is she projecting?
I think I told this story before...my husband's married OW was a serial cheater. She had been having LTAs with married co-workers for 30 yrs. My husband was the latest of her conquests.
I spoke with MOWs BH a number of times on the phone and he told me that at Xmas he was barred from coming into the house to exchange gifts with his 3 children! Why? MOW had told everyone that the reason that they were separated and divorcing was because her husband had had an affair!!!!!
(Mind you now.. her husband had kept all of her antics a secret from everyone for years! He never divulged the fact that she had cheated on him over almost 30 yrs ago and continued an affair before during and after giving birth to 2 children! he never told anyone about the LTA with my husband! Instead..he quietly moved out of the house!
but, here was MOW lying to other family members about her husband!!!
I don't know.. ATS...when I read your words.. I thought of this story.
I forget...is your wife in IC?
Are you? Do you go to MC also?
But the INTIMACY, true intimacy was missing. WH still said all his pretty words, etc, so I couldn't put my finger on it.
So, we did the movie, dinner last night and it was good. I was nervous about the sex, mostly because I was still feeling like I'm on the outside looking in at us. He was into it and after a while it physically felt good to me as well. Emotionally, flat. I'm pretty much an open book so FWH could tell but we put off talking until this morning.
I've been reading Dr. Janis Spring's "After the Affair." (Background...my DDay is 6/29/10.) So I sat with FWH and actually went through the book and noted which of the reactions she says are typical, I am feeling. It was so helpful to be able to verbalize my emotions. And then one of the things that Dr. Spring talks about it the trust-building behaviors, that there are low-cost behaviors and high-cost behaviors. Well, I feel like someone finally gave me permission to really ask FWH for what something that I think may help my feeling out of control and loss of self-confidence and self-esteem. Our conversation was calm, only a few tears on my part (like that's anything new these days - I used to be so proud that I was tough and rarely cried...what a change this is for me and somewhat embarrassing) so I took the chance.
I told FWH that I'm not convinced that we will be able to reconcile and that if I had to make the decision right now, I would ask him to move out. My self-esteem has taken a hit when I think that it looks like, or feels like, I'm letting FWH off the hook. Of course FWH doesn't feel like I've let anything get by, but the fact is that very little has changed in his life. I still pay the bills, pick up the dry-cleaning, have sex when he's interested, still sleeping in the same bed for God's sake! But I'm embarrassed and ashamed that I haven't stood up for myself more. I told him that I would have respected myself more if I had told him to leave as soon as I found out, but I didn't. I think it would have been better for me, but I recognize that it wasn't better for everyone else (our kids and other family, friends). I said that for now I think it's better that he not move out but that I may still need that in the future. Surprisingly, FWH said that if at some point I felt like I needed for that to happen in order to feel more empowered, then he would do that. In his opinion, it would not be helpful for R, but he would go if I thought I needed it for me. I then asked if he would be willing to sign a post-nuptial agreement and he said that he would have no problem with that. You could have knocked me over with a pencil! I said that doing something like that would make me feel like I was standing up for myself and give me some pride back. We were even able to joke a little about who gets the dog. (I do...you don't even want to mess with taking my dog away from me! )
All in all, it was very heartening and I feel somewhat less trapped. I'm not kidding myself that everthing is okay now. I'm still very angry. This doesn't change that he lied to me for 5 years, slept with several other women, one of whom was his GF for 4 years, but I feel stronger. Like I've taken a step for me. I work in the legal field so I'm going to call my former boss tomorrow and get the name of someone. In TX there is no spousal support (alimony) but I think I want it in writing that FWH would have to give me spousal support for 4 years. That's how long the A was so I think that's a good number.
As njgal says it's a long road and not for the faint of heart and honestly it's discouraging to hear that after 4 years you still think of the A every day. Njgal, are you glad that you did the work to R? And did you tell your kids about the A? In her book Dr. Spring seems to think that you should tell the kids but I'm not so sure.
ATS - your WW has NO idea what a sociopath is. Maybe she just like being able to use big words.
UK - thanks for sharing about your friend having your back. I'm fairly certain I would be in the nuthouse if I didn't have my BFF. It's weird that for most of our friendship I've been the cool, collected one but she has been my rock. I thank God every day for her support. She listens and the responds with what she thinks will help, not just what she, or I, think I want to hear. She supports FWH when he deserves it, but is willing to help me hide the body if I need her to.
[This message edited by strongish at 5:01 PM, November 14th (Sunday)]
The DD who she was texting with has the same issues or worse than FWW. I think there was projecting involved in this. It is easy for FWW's DD to hate me and vent out all bad feelings towards FWW without confronting FWW. I am safe saying that FWW's oldest DD hates me. I am pretty sure that hate consists of all her resentment and anger towards her mother (FWW, father, and live in boyfriend. I am a safe target to vent at, especially since before dday and IC FWW agreed with her.
DS and I took the boat out this evening. Fishing was fair, the weather was good, and we saw a green flash on the sunset.
hugs to the ((Tribe))
All in all, it was very heartening and I feel somewhat less trapped. I'm not kidding myself that everthing is okay now. I'm still very angry. This doesn't change that he lied to me for 5 years, slept with several other women, one of whom was his GF for 4 years, but I feel stronger. Like I've taken a step for me.
Good for you honey. This really does sound like genuine remorse.
Hope all continues to go well for you.
Edited to fix "lousey" spelling. Too many merlots again
[This message edited by Laura28 at 4:14 AM, November 15th (Monday)]
be prepared for some more meltdowns, or moments of sadness ( the kind where you sob as opposed to cry).....and always always keep in mind all that you wrote in that post....never forget what you have realized....sometimes it is easy to forget that when you are in the middle of pain....
You are so wise. I felt so good and it was great and it didn't last of course. My rollercoaster didn't just hit a dip it crashed yesterday.
My fuckwit H had talked about going to buy more fucking ducks on Sunday. So during the week leading up to his 8 hour trip to get his precious ducks he proceeded to spend every minute he wasn't at work preparing for their arrival. He built pens, nest boxes and boxes to travel them in. I did what I've always done. Housework, washing and school work and waiting around inside for him to find Time to notice that I still lived here.
So I had another meltdown and told him to fuck off.
And again he cried, begged and pleaded for me to let him stay. Promised he will try harder.
And just to top it off, I found out that OW3 is back in the country and will return to work tomorrow. SHIT. Why didn't she get hit by a bus in London? UKgirl - where were you????
So I went back and reread my post and tried to feel good again. Didn't work very well but I did feel a little better.
HUGS to all
There were 4 of us and three of us have dealt with infidelity. Two gf's have been married twice, one (sister) married 3 times and me just once. It's quite interesting how different personalities deal with these things. My sister was cheated on twice and she immediately divorced. My other girlfriend is still married and her Dday was 10 years ago. She said the first 6 years were the hardest after finding out, but she has forgiven her H. She says he is pathetic and she feels bad for him, he's so broken.
At first I didn't want anybody to know about my H's A because I was so embarrassed and humiliated. Now I don't care, when the subject comes up, I don't hide it. There are more people than you know who are still married and have dealt or are dealing with infidelity.
Nothing is what it appears on the outside. I think all of us are a perfect example of that. Everyone thought my marriage was wonderful, that I had a great relationship and they envied the fact that we were still happy and married for so long. Well, I was happy but shithead never told me he wasn't. And so it truly is a journey in a new life. At least that is what it feels like to me.
I'm a changed person, I can feel it. I'm not sure if it's for the better though.
There is still a part of me that doesn't know if my M will work. I know that I will never ever feel the same towards my H again. I thought as time went on that maybe the feelings would come back. I know for sure, they won't. I'm not a forgiving person.
I'm doing what is best for me at this moment in time. If truth be known, I'm using him. I do care for him, but there is no love. I'm going through the motions to get and keep what I have worked so hard for. I'm happy with every other aspect of my life except my relationship with H. I have sex with no feelings now, none. It's just a physical thing that feels good.
The family unit will stay together for now. I don't know what will be next year this time. But I am peaceful today. I don't feel confused as I did. And I have realized that yes, infidelity is a painful horrible thing, but it isn't the worst. My health and my families health is most important. You can't get rid of cancer so easily but you can get rid of a lying cheating husband/wife if you so desire.
Just putting my thoughts out there.
Anyway, I'm glad you had a good time and I'm glad that you have found some peace. I totally understand what you mean about the sex. I feel the same way. I wonder if that is the way WS think when they are having sex with the BS during their A or with the OW. I don't think I want to know.
In any event, I'm not sure I believe you have to stay married to keep everything you've worked for. If you are staying for other reasons, that's one thing. Maybe I just don't have a full grasp of your situation, but it seemed to me that you run your own successful business and don't really rely on your husband's income. And as far as the house goes - it doesn't necessarily mean you would have to sell it, you could buy out his interest. Anyway, if you are serious you should consult a lawyer. I don't think it's worth staying in a loveless marriage if it's only about money. As a short term plan, that's perfectly understandable. But, otherwise, I think it's just a recipe for an unhappy life.
I'm not trying to be critical, just want you to be happier at home.
Alright - I have more to say, but there is some sort of crisis upstairs. Got to go.
Why do yo think that if you D you will not "get any" for a long time? I'm sure you would be a good catch for someone. Smart, funny, attractive, have a job, and I assume you have all the necessary female parts. Don't sell yourself short. Remember, you girls seem to hold the key when it comes to who gets any.
I guess if you listen to most the WSs, they were only having sex for the phyical part. It seems that most of them claim they did not care about the OP. My W did say that she was just looking for someone to be nice to her, so she apparently felt like there was some connection. After D-day she did say that she felt used by OM. So in keeping with that theme, I used her Saturday night........
Sociopath! I can't believe I missed that one. We all spend so much time trying to figure out all of our WSs that we neglect figuring out each other! Lets see now. You sociopath, me crazy old fart. We would make good partners in crime.
I should have thought about using the grass myself. Why let the ducks have all the fun?
Entitled dick syndrome.
I really do not know much about cooking with cannabis. I have heard that it works pretty good in cookies or brownies.
Hugs to the tribe.
As for the sex after D. Well, let's see. I don't know when I'd find the time to date because I'm pretty sure that my H would live in a hell hole so as to send more money to me (not complaining, btw...) so there would be no every other weekend visitation. Not so sure he would agree to watch the kids at "my" house so I could get laid...
Then there's the fact that I've had only 1 partner in my life and never really dated. So that's scary. O, yes, I currently believe that 99% of the male population is not worth my time. (See - it was going to be 100% - but I'm leaving the 1% there for people like Dip, Tryn, Ats & Deeppurple & the like.)
I am aware that if any female walks into any bar & asks someone to have sex with her, she will not have a problem with volunteers. That's just not my style. Makes for a funny visual image tho.
After sleeping in this morning I got up to make coffee and get ready to work. FWW came to the kitchen and started flirting as if to initiate sex. To condense an hour long discussion, I told her I was trying to be OK with the idea that sex is not something we do, and that I do not see her "servicing me" with a quickie before work as sex. She said she wanted the sex and the closeness this morning, and we talked about awkwardness and issues I have with her rejecting my initiations and she talked about being uncomfortable blatantly initiating.
With the mood for both of us completely killed, we did head back to bed to be close and see if we could restart. FWW told me (again) that she does not have a lot of sex drive. I told her I acknowledge that and think I would prefer no sex to infrequent sex and always wondering and thinking when the next time will be. I told her I try to initiate and a third of the times she turns me down, and half the times she just wants to do me and not for me to do anything for her. I told her I wanted sex to be something we both participated in and enjoyed. I told her I was feeling awkward and was not confident about what to do, how to arouse her. This is when she said she couldnít just be aroused very often. I stopped cold. She went on to saying it was hard for her to be aroused and not all that often. This is when I said that other men had no problem arousing her more than infrequently ; followed by her starting to sob that I had it wrong.
Through tears and sobbing, she told me it was not what or how the OM did it, it was how she felt. She said she was aroused when she was having sex with someone she thought was powerful or that it was thrilling to sneak away because somebody wanted her. That it was not love, she wants to learn to feel intimacy and emotion with me, that she feels abused by the OM, and that all of her life sex has been something people did to abuse her and she wants to have sex be special and that she is doing the best that she can even if they are baby steps. She wants to be better, us to be better.
So I am going to go write 100 times on the board I will be more understanding of my W and not such an asshole. I already spent some time this morning on the ICR thread for SAB survivors and spouses. On that thread, I found stories and feelings almost identical to what FWW was describing, and has told me in the past. I realized soon after dday that I hugely misunderstood the level of impact her motherís alcoholism had on FWWís life. It is clear to me now I made the same mistake regarding her rape and sexual abuse. I can be so damn selfish.
I just needed to get this out. It was very emotional to go through this with FWW clinging on me and sobbing. Afterwards it was like our old times. We were joking and comfortable with each other. iwam posted a few days ago about taking that leap of faith. I keep running up to the edge, I even lean out over it, but I need to just jump. I need to let go of the past A crap. I need to support my wife as she works on completing her healing.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 11:05 AM, November 15th (Monday)]
You are a man among men, my friend. Hugs to you.
Nofun: I'm so glad that you were able to get away with some friends. I am especially happy to hear that you are no longer keeping everything to yourself and are opening up to other people who can relate. We often don't know what other people are going through and sometimes when we open up to others we are surprised to hear their stories.
I remember when I was a freshman in HS and I was very embarrassed and ashamed that my parents just got a divorce. I decided to tell my friend. After I told her, she admitted to me that even though she told everyone that her father had died when she was baby, he actually just abandoned her and her mother!!
I agree with Allgood. See a lawyer just to know what your options are.
Laura: Those fucking ducks!! It seems that your WH needs to be involved in some project, almost an addiction. The only thing I could suggest is that you and he decide TOGETHER on some project that you can work on and ENJOY together. Also, an IC might help WH to see why he gets so addictively involved in these projects.
Strong: It's good that you were able to discuss a post-nup. It can help give you some security, especially that we lose our sense of security after the A.
UKgirl: It's good to get a perspective of a friend about how are Spouses appeared to others during the M. Most people don't want to say anything. A friend told me after first xWH left that she never liked the way he treated me. I was surprised. I never thought he treated me badly!
Same with current WH. DS 35 is telling me he hated how WH treated me, like a servant, etc.
NJgal: I'm sorry you still feel these triggers. It is hard. From what you have told us, your FWH has done so much work to repair the damage he has caused with the A and the drinking. After all this time, I can understand why he doesn't want to be reminded of what he did and doesn't want to talk about it. Perhaps you don't need to "discuss" the A per se, (the exact trigger or details) but maybe just to let FWH know that you still feel triggers from time to time. You know, FWH might still be feeling some pain too, or guilt that he is hesitant to share with you. I can only see that at this point this sharing of feelings might just bring you closer.
By the way, it is DS 30 who invited all of us to HIS house. DS 30 is the one who keeps asking if I'm coming, etc. If it was xWH invite, I'd just say thanks but no thanks at this time.
DS 30 really wants me and the younger kids at his house and BPD mom. What fun, BPD mom and xWH! The tensions...... I also don't think WH will like DS's being there with xWH, not that his opinion really counts at this point.
One thing at a time. Working on getting Mom into physical therapy at a rehabilitation facility.
OK, gotta run and do something constructive like paying the bills