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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 21
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, November 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura - that pictures is awesome. I'm sure Dip will love it.

My son told me this morning that FWH actually brought the A subject up. He told my son that he regrets what he did and that it will haunt him for the rest of his life. That it was a bad decision and he caused a lot of heart ache within the family. Why tell DS25 and not say that to me?

I think I need to stop trying to figure out what goes through H's pea brain. Oh wait...I think I have it figured out.....NOTHING goes through his brain. In fact, it whistles in the wind!! And if it gets below zero, his brain freezes....so that's the answer!!!


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, November 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

G'afternoon Tribe,

Yesterday I received the first of a couple of books I bought at FWW's suggestion on recovering from childhood sexual abuse. I did a fast read of the 300 pages; it is overwhelming in what it describes, and expectations for a partner of a SAb survivor trying to heal.

Today I went back and read journal entries from last March, soon after I found SI. When I read what I wrote, and the copies of emails from FWW I posted there, I can see a difference from then to where we are now. I cannot believe I put up with some of the crap she threw at me, even 6 months out from dday.

I have thought a lot the last couple of days about the enormity of the work in front of FWW to resolve her bpd traits, ACOA issues, recovering a healthy relationship with sex after her history of SAb, accepting and forgiving her behavior in her LTA with 4 OM. All of that in addition to dealing with me as I continue to heal myself from the impact of her betrayal.

Our history together seems like a lot to walk away from, and it will be painful financially, but the phrase “throwing good money after bad” keeps coming to mind. So too does the question Loving supporter, or weak enabler?

I will pick FWW up at the airport about midnight tonight. Tomorrow she settle back in to routine, but Saturday I have a backlog of issues I want to begin talking with her about, or maybe not.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 2:44 PM, November 18th (Thursday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3964 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, November 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((ats))) I will be keeping you in my thoughts. There's no question that you are in a very tough situation. There are no easy options. Hang in there.

Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, November 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats.

I would say that loving supporter is the discription for you. I am assuming that she did o.k. on this trip? If so, good for her. From my experience you might not want to hit her with too many backlog issues Saturday. She will still be tired both phyiscally and mentally Saturday. I'm sure you are a bit worn out too.

Laura.

I did like the picture. Good job and thank you.

nofun.

Now that was a good description of a pea brain.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 5:26 PM, November 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Evening all.
H was actually going to MC alone tonight. I went last week and gave the history & MC wanted to meet with my H alone before we started joint sessions.
When I got home from work he was just moping around, even took a nap. When he came out for dinner he was just unpleasant and it's all because he was going to MC. I asked if it was because he was going to have to explain this whole thing to someone else & he said no, it's because it's just a waste of time. He was really just a jackass about the whole thing, lots of eye rolling and muttering under his breath & I'm pretty sure he was just outright mocking me as well. (Couldn't tell due to the muttering.)
Honestly, it's enough to say just forget it. But, I'm trying to think of this like he is a child, like if my child was throwing a hissy fit, but I make him do it anyway because I, the grown up, know he needs it.
We're supposed to have a date night tomorrow. I think I'm going to cancel the babysitter.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 5:26 PM, November 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Evening all.
H was actually going to MC alone tonight. I went last week and gave the history & MC wanted to meet with my H alone before we started joint sessions.
When I got home from work he was just moping around, even took a nap. When he came out for dinner he was just unpleasant and it's all because he was going to MC. I asked if it was because he was going to have to explain this whole thing to someone else & he said no, it's because it's just a waste of time. He was really just a jackass about the whole thing, lots of eye rolling and muttering under his breath & I'm pretty sure he was just outright mocking me as well. (Couldn't tell due to the muttering.)
Honestly, it's enough to say just forget it. But, I'm trying to think of this like he is a child, like if my child was throwing a hissy fit, but I make him do it anyway because I, the grown up, know he needs it.
We're supposed to have a date night tomorrow. I think I'm going to cancel the babysitter.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 6:06 PM, November 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FWW's flight was cancelled, so she will not be home until tomorrow. She is not happy about it, but seems to be managing OK.

For those of you just a few months out from dday and unhappy with your WS's attitude, I can tell you it can get better. I read through my journal entries from March, and there is a world of difference from then to now. I posted a couple quotes in Betrayed Men, and from the replies FWW's attitude at 6 months was not unique to her. We still have much to work through, but she does own her shit now.

I am attending the Fall band concert that DS is playing in. No rush to pick-up the house tonight since FWW is delayed, so I think we will go for pizza afterwards.

Thank you all for your kind words and support.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3964 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:42 PM, November 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood...do not cancel....the last thing you want to do is to punish him because he is not happy about going to mc.....it will make going for him that much worse....

he dreads it, totally normal...not too many of us look forward to telling a stranger how much we fucked up..... he may be acting childish about it.......but keep your date ....


laura i love the pic...

strong: stay strong and get the post nup....something i wish i thought of, now i do not think pfm would go for something like that....when you know better you do better....i didn't know, but you do so get it...if he is reluctant then you know where his heart really is or should i say, isn't....


and i read that article....it is good to read, i don't think any ws who does not get it yet will well...."get it"....


(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, November 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Had my IC session today and I was a blubbering idiot. Told her about the pre-nup and she was a little concerned about why I wanted it. Mainly she was wondering why I felt like it would help my self-esteem. So we talked a LONG time about the pain, grief I'm feeling. She keeps telling me that the A wasn't about me....but I told her that that doesn't negate the sense of betrayal I feel. Here's what we ended up with....

FWH is SO good at compartmentalizing and burying his emotions, he really can't/won't understand the kind of love and M that I thought we had. Most likely, I haven't felt a deep emotional/intimate connection to him for some time...hence my lack of interest in sex. FWH took that as me not loving him, or neglect of him and used that as an excuse to have an A and it became an repeating cycle....no emotion from him...no sex from me...etc. (To be clear, when I say no sex, that means only 2-4 times/month.)

He is not the man I thought he was when I married him. He is weak...too weak to have done the right thing, the more difficult thing, the more adult thing and tell me how he felt unloved/neglected so that we could work it out. Instead he took the easy route by doing what ALL the pilots do and get a GF in another city. Maybe he just felt left out, who knows.

I'm wrung out tonight. Have to finish the form for the atty. in the morning. I wish I knew what I was some of this stuff means....insurance cash value vs. death benefit; IRA's vs. 401(K); multiple retirement funds from the airline. It gives me a headache but I'm bound and determined to get it done before he gets home tomorrow.

I told the C that I am grasping at straws...doing things to try and get FWH to "wake up" and be the man I thought he was and that that's probably what the post-nup is really all about. My fear is that this still won't do the trick and my next step is to S. If we do that then the kids have to know. Tribe....I can't stand the thought of hurting them so much. They think that our family is so fun, so cool, their refuge and safety net. Finding out that we are S will pull that safety net out fron under them. I had it done to me in college and it was so hard. I hate that my kids may have to be hurt that way but the alternative is for me to bury my need for intimacy from my H and pretend like everything if hunky-dory. Not my strong suit.

So, thanks again for listening Tribe. Your support means so much to me.

(((ats))) Hold on and take care of that boy.

Allgood - seriously, stick to your guns and keep on with the MC. At this point there is no down side to it.

Miracle - as always kind words and support. Thanks.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 3:34 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DP - loves to cook (WW gets breakfast in bed every sunday).
DP also does the dishes, clears the table, does the ironing, cleans the bathroom - my talents are wasted on my ww.
baths the girls, reads bedtime stories, helps with homework, playmate, coach, etc etc.
well i one love language covered.


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 4:37 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dp

my talents are wasted on my ww.

I hope she sees what a treasure you are before it's too late

HUGS
Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2726 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:56 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood – so did this end up being IC or MC? His strop is about talking about his fuck-up. He doesn’t want to, but it’s not only about the fuck-up, it’s about deeper issues that led to the fuck-up. How’d it go? Are you going as MC next time?

(((((strongish))))) Don’t worry about being a blubbering mess. It’s a release mechanism and I’ve had several light bulb moments during blubbering sessions at IC or MC. The post-nup will help your self esteem because it will give you confidence about your practical situation. One less thing to worry about. You will know how the road lies if you decide to separate. It’s insurance and reassurance. And about your H’s commitment to you. He will do this knowing that he has no intention of doing this to you again. Finish as much as you can. Then anything the atty comes back to you for, go to your H and be kinda professional about it. Detach yourself and just say your atty needs details on xyz and can he let you have them in the next couple of days.

He was not the man you thought he was…..none of our WS were what we thought they were. But I think maybe I wasn’t the woman he thought I was either. But one thing that kept the affair going was not knowing how I would react. He didn’t want to lose me and found himself in a cleft stick. He truly didn’t know what I would do – scream and shout, attack him, pack his stuff and throw it out on the street, walk out and not come back, take an overdose of something, go round to MOW’s house and attack her, his mind ran every possible scenario. And then he just carried on because it didn’t bear thinking about. And I was never going to find out as long as he kept the affair “relationship” going.

I had (and have) the same issues with my DS’s. We’ve had the house that everyone crashed at. I was the mum everyone liked. H was the take-the-mickey fun dad. I don’t think anyone ever felt uncomfortable at our home. They think they are so lucky having parents not only still together but who have always shown affection in front of them and in public. I know I will have to tell them one day. The moment will arrive and I will destroy their image of their father and us as a family.

To the menz - are you lot for real? Too good to be true. I wish my FWH had half your traits.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 5:59 AM, November 19th (Friday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 6:10 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all
Something nice tonight. I had a mini meltdown and told H my SIL's story (my brother's new wife). She D'd her H about 10 yrs ago for infidelity. She told me he had a ONS with a long time family friend. He confessed. She kicked him out, was not sorry she had but actually tried to kill herself. Felt she could never forgive him. Anyway, I told my h and said "She D'd her H over a ONS. I've let you stay after fucking 3 different women over 16yrs and am trying to make our marriage work but you just want me to hurry up and get "better"".
He then said, "you are an amazing woman. I don't know why you are doing this. I just know how lucky I am that you are trying."
Mostly I think he has no idea but then sometimes I think ... hope... that maybe he DOES get it!!!!

Hugs to all
Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2726 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 6:49 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just had to tell this story quickly before getting ready for the day.

Last night, Boyo1 had a bit of a meltdown while with WH and started complaining to him about everything he could think of that "wasn't fair" in his 7-year-old life. One of the things was that WH never has time to do things with Boyo1. WH came home and asked, "Did he come up with that on his own, or did he get it from SOMEONE else?" (meaning me, of course). I calmly responded, "If you're asking whether I bad-mouth you to our children, the answer is no." So WH sat down, very sad, and said nothing else. I stood there for a moment, wondering how to react, and decided to say nothing, leave the room, and get Boyo1 ready for bed. WH talked more about it later... said he had to think of things to do with Boyo1, etc. I said nothing but I listened.

WH is much better at spending time with his family than he was during his A (naturally). But the actions WH chose have consequences, and not just on me. I'm quite relieved that he is being made to see this and I hope that he doesn't just blow it off, but takes it to heart.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood - don't cancel the babysitter. Go and have fun. Be in the moment. Let H see how much fun you are.

My H too didn't want to go to IC or MC but that was one of my conditions. He is also one of those guys that is too macho for counceling and thinks it's a waste. He has been going now to counseling for over a year and when he came home from the last session I asked him if he made another appointment. He said yes, and that he feels as though he wants to continue going; it makes him feel better.

Don't get discouraged.


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 7:05 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood - forgot to say don't cancel the babysitter. Make sure you leave all "issues" at home. Go out and enjoy it!


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 7:18 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nell -- out of the mouths of babes, huh?

On Dday, my WH had no relationship with Sunshine (then 8 months old) was abusive to The Pasha (Thank God there *was* Dday as opposed to me not knowing; I was about to leave him over his drinking and the way he was treating me and The Pasha and no matter what happens, at least getting caught snapped him into being a good father again.) And The Pharaoh asked me why his Dad didn't love the Pasha. Isn't that sad? I had to agree that WH didn't love Pasha at all. He'd been awful to him from day one -- because he cried too much and didn't sleep enough and dared to nearly die on Thanksgiving when he was 20 days old so he ruined his Thanksgiving dinner (not that WH was at the hospital or anything when the little guy stopped breathing, even though my Parents had taken the Pharaoh. but I digress...)

Anyway, The Pharaoh started talking to his father about these sorts of things. Pharaoh has always been the light of WH's life. My guess is that WH only wants to R so he can see him each day and so that he doesn't have to cut me a big fat check each month. Too bad OW -- who I thought really liked Pharaoh -- told my nanny that it must be awful to work for us since Pharaoh is "such a horrible spoiled brat."

OK -- I'm rambling, just wanting to let you know I've been there too.

Pharaoh is getting bullied and I feel like it's my fault -- that I've taught him to take too much crap because of my M with WH. Sigh.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 7:53 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I only have time for a "quickie":

Strongish: the cash value v. death benefit as pertains to your life insurance policy means is it a term policy or a whole life/variable life insurance policy. The latter has a current value - you can cash in and get whatever the value is. This should be on your polciy, but generally speaking the premiums for a term policy are much lower than for a whole life insurance policy. As to the retirement accounts - usually the statements are pretty clear about what kind of account it is. When in doubt, just bring the actual statements to your lawyer.
I think the post-nup is a good idea. (I don't have one because quite frankly I do better asset wise being married at the moment and the longer it stays that way the better.) In any event, if you ever discover you are in false r, or he broke NC, or whatever else, I think you will feel less foolish (not that is the way you should feel, but I know that is what we tend to do to ourselves - beat ourselves up) knowing you are well protected. If you are doing it as a measure to prevent your H from acting like an ass in the future, I don't think it will be effective. These guys have already demonstrated an inability to think ahead to consequences...
O - and the way you described your relationship is exactly the way I would describe mine.

As for me: H came back in a better mood after MC. (He went alone.) Said the guy was easier to talk to than the last MC, if for no other reason than that he is younger & understands our lifestyle better. So, I am making an appointment for us both to go next week.

My concern with date night is that there is drinking involved & sometimes that turns up ugly. I am also a little concerned because I set this up to do something I wanted to do and I hope we can still have a good time even though it's not really his thing.

Got to go...

ETA: M3 - you said some things about your H & his behavior with your son that I can relate to , but I can't get into it right now.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 7:55 AM, November 19th (Friday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 8:23 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The effects on the children. Infidelity doesn' just cause pain with the BS, but it involves everyone in the family.
If DS 15 said anything to WH, I was accused of putting words in his mouth. I was accused of "putting WH down".
I had to say several times very pointedly to WH, "I would not put down the father of my children. It would just hurt THEM. It has nothing to do with YOU. No matter who I married I wouldn't do it." He was always taken aback when I said this, but he still thinks that I am turning the kids against him. It never occurs to him that his actions are doing this.

It is so sad. I head DS 15 mutter things under his breath that his father is spending time with THEM (the OC's). In my sitch, I think my DS's probably feel the same betrayal as I do. They probably feel THEY weren't enough and their father had to have another family and spends more time with them.

Infidelity should be a punishable crime. It devastates a family like abuse and domestic violence.
It's more like murder. It kills someone else's trust, self esteem, heart and soul.


Posts: 1900 | Registered: Jan 2010
ShockedandNumb
♀ Member
Member # 30151
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow! Huge board. Maybe they need a forum for you all. ;O)

Not sure if this will ever get viewed but wanted to share. (helps to process it)

20 yr marriage here. Just found out that the last 5 years my WS has been in an affair. I knew about it 5 years ago, but thought it had ended..It never stopped! I am floored at how I could not have known! It makes me question my own intelligence, instincts, sanity....

How can two people in the same marriage feel so differently. I have invested my whole heart and it was all a joke to WH?

Anyway, he wants to R, and MC was started months ago. In the process of MC, he decided to end the A with OW. Why even start MC in the 1st place with her still in our marriage? Bermuda Triangle!

Yesterday I called OWs BS and it was, to say the least, a very high drama day. OW freaked out, denied everything (again) than called my WH screaming and cussing. Glad he saw an ugly side of her.

I did not speak with her, no reason to, but felt her BS deserved to know and he was grateful for it as he knew something wasn't right all these years.

Feel bad for him.

I need to go through some of the many posts today. This is a great place to be. Thank you all for your support to everyone here.


D-Day#1-11/2005--me-8 weeks pregnant
D-Day#2 11/17/2010 same OW-LTA
BS(me)44
WS(him)42 yrs old.
4 daughters/19+ yr marriage
Nothing hurts more than realizing he meant everything to you, but you meant nothing to him....

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