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User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 21
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, November 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Howdy. Four things:

(1) Honest -- ATS is right, might not be his other wife either. Also, try to spend some time reading about NPD abuse. I think it will help you.

(2) ATS -- I know it's embarassing, but I think you should go to your Director about this issue. Tell him you'll work with the guy if you have to but you'd rather not and they should have been able to handle this issue by themselves years ago. You don't have to tell him about the A -- but you can if you want to.

A's are so commonplace in our society if you do tell, you could just say -- look, confidentially, this is a bit embarassing but my wife had a mid-life crisis a few years back and had an A with this guy. She's got nothing to do with him now and she and I worked things out, but I just don't have any respect for this guy for obvious reasons and I'd rather not work with him.

(3) Allgood --
What are you doing, lady? Just trying to torture yourself? Look, you can't "accidentally" have sex -- even a drunken ONS that's unplanned. It's not like falling off the curb and breaking your ankle. There are no shades of gray. Betrayal is betrayal -- either you did or you didn't and he did. Period. PERIOD.

You want there to be some magic excuse for him that is going to take your anger away. There is none. There will be none. He was (is?) a douchebag. And he's not a child. This is his (lack of) character.

I know, it sucks.

The only one who can heal you is you. You are forever changed. Altered, like some element that has undergone a chemical reaction. You are iron that has been forged into steel.

Looking towards him to help you heal is futile and damaging to you. You're giving your personal power away, at the time when you most need to gather all your strength about you.

You know what you need? New boots. Like in Friends. Rachel's "I don't need to get married, I don't need a man, I don't need my Dad, I've got great boots" boots.

I mean, seriously, you've got to calm down around him. Have him help you concretely and forget about him helping you with your emotions. Forget looking for the magic wand so he'll say something to take the pain away; just get him to give the kids baths instead, or send him to the grocery store, etc. Let's face it, you're not getting anywhere with what you're doing. So do something different. Either you'll get some peace or he'll get worried and start doing something himself.

(4) Deeppurple -- I'm so glad to see you're in such a great mood!

To all the others -- hugs. Strongish, I have no idea how I could attend a wedding without just throwing up now. Kudos to you.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, November 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3.

Here is another phrase for your collection. While doing something that is a fun time, you say, "This is more fun than rubbing deer guts on door knobs."

I do not advocate this practice and do not hunt or desire to kill a deer. I only shoot them with a camera.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, November 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's a good one, dip!

I'm not angry anymore. Something just deflated it all out of me. I guess I had an epiphany afterall.

Now I just feel like all the venting I did -- I was being a big whiny baby. I know I wasn't. None of you are either. But that's kind of how my view has shifted, if that makes any sense.

A friend said to me: "you are a completely different person. The person you used to be is completely gone. It's shocking. It's like you were a shadow for the last year, and now you're back, but you're not you at all. I see it and it surprises me every time, but at least I know why. I really wonder what everyone who doesn't know thinks about it."

Isn't that interesting?

No word on whether the "new me" is better or worse, LOL. I'm afraid to ask!


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, November 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For some reason I can't edit here. The epiphany was a few things. First, I really, truly internalized that I am never, ever going to get better with my bipolar. I will function, and probably better and better over time, but it's permanent. Always there. Intellectually, I knew that but this was like suddenly the weight of what that really means hitting me hard.

And somehow, that translated somewhere to the infidelity in some intangible way. Like, it's there. It's never going away. You have to manage it and go on; not optional so get to it.

Plus, for whatever reason WH asked me if I wanted to hit him. He seemed kind of hurt that I actually thought about it. But I knew it wouldn't help. I realized I really *don"t* want to hit him. it just popped my balloon so to speak.

So, given enough time, cooler heads will prevail. I think I'm through it -- now only going to damage control. Making decisions. I would have thought it was a phase, a smoothing out of the roller coaster, if not for what my friend said. You think, maybe I'm through this and then out of the blue a friend brings it up when you're not talking about it and says you're through it, I see the difference...


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, November 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats: i think you do need to acknowledge your feelings, burying them doesn't work, they will only resurface...but once you acknowledge them you then need to let them GO....so so so much easier said then done.....but you cannot let them go without acknowledging them, and you did that by posting here and talking to your fww......if you need to further acknowledge them, write them out again, this time write them with as much anger and curses...really really vent it out....THEN LET IT GO...change your focus, redirect it to other things...

i also think you should talk to the boss and explain the issues...and let him know that you have tried in the past to teach this man everything so that you would not have to deal with him again...does HE have any suggestions....and let him know that you know that this really is personal business, but being that it seems to have crossed the boundaries where this other idiot was concerned, you feel he not only has a right to know but a need to know....ethically this idiot crossed lines i am sure any employer needs to know about....

((((ats)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, November 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for your support and comments Tribe.

Strongish, I hope it truly is patience I have and not a lack of resolve.

I feel really awful to have posted something that pulled iwam out of hibernation to comment, but thank you all the same iwam. Telling a boss is complicated as xOM and I work for different divisions with different bosses. xOM’s boss is a peer to me, and I have been trying to work more directly with xOM’s boss with an explanation if it isn’t worth (OM’s boss) time to be involved with the issue, it is not worth mine either. This work is not a formal part of my job description, just an area where I am very qualified to resolve what amounts to a potentially expensive PR issue with clients once the other division staff (xOM) has handled the situation poorly. I pointed out to xOM’s boss that there is a pattern of xOM screwing up his response to these situations despite my efforts to educate and advise.

M334455, my “Director” and boss is a VP. He really does not need to deal with this sort of crap, and at my level, I am expected to take care of my own problems. I have considered talking to OM’s Director about it, but I think I am now positioning things to work out better in the future. The sad fact is that the nature of my job puts me in the position of having to help when others screw up. I am usually very polite and understanding with whoever screwed up, but not so much with xOM.

Dip, it is funny the OM’s behavior now. Prior to dday, any time I had to interact with him, he would be aloof; arms crossed, and pretty much a jerk. Recently, it is as if he is my best friend. All smiles and thanks for the help Atsenaotie. FWW says he was always afraid of me. I have about 4 inches and 40# on him, and I “out rank him” in the organization. I have torn into him on two occasions since dday. Once when he lost his cell phone and the person who found it called the numbers on it (including FWW) to see if anyone knew who’s phone it was. I called him and went off on him about why he still had FWW’s number. A few months ago, he was trying to email home something home from a website, but he accidently sent it to me instead (he was cursed by the Outlook auto-complete in the email address). It was an article on robot sex dolls. I emailed it back to him saying that given our history, I did not appreciate the email (whatever it was supposed to mean) and that if I ever felt that he was harassing me again, I would send it as a part of a complaint to the HR department.

I can see that getting past this one xOM (and BIL and other xOM) is more than just him, it is getting past the LTA and everything that goes with it. As well as we have been doing (at least I think we are doing well, see I still doubt FWW’s honesty with feelings) I guess I am not there yet as much as I want to. I can acknowledge the feelings, but as Tryn mentioned when he posted a while back, I will still occasional talk a walk down the path of memory (or mind movie) lane. I still have anger about what FWW did with them, that she has told me enough, but still holds some things back, and that it took so #$%^#@ long after dday for her get things figured out. I guess after a 20 year M of misperception and a life of seeing things as she learned in her FOO, I am happy that we are having a chance at a “do over”.

It has warmed up here from the frigid 58 degrees this morning, and as the day has improved, the day has improved. I know FWW hates to talk about A stuff and OM, but she has done her best to be supportive.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, November 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A few things:

Ats: I agree you should tell someone you cannot work with this guy. To be honest, from an employer's standpoint, I'm sure they'd rather know now. My bosses basically cornered me into telling them what was going on with me. And OW was a client and a coworker of my spouse, which is where I have many other clients. They told me straight out that I could hand them any file, no questions asked and tell them I don't want to work on them anymore. So - this is part of you being a team player - telling them something that affects their business, cuz quite frankly, you may snap and hurt this guy. I know I wouldn't trust myself in the situation.

M3: Yes, I know there is no accidental sex. Lol. I don't know why it bothered me so much, but I guess in hanging onto whatever thread I had, I was thinking the 1st time his judgment was impaired. Instead, it was a calculated, sober decision. And, that is worse to me than a drunken decision, tho neither is an accident.
Now I know that offers no excuse for the 100s of times after that, and prior to learning this new fact I had planned on asking my H how it is he had a few months between the ONS and starting the full relationship and didn't come to the conclusion that it was a mistake, but now I see that he will never say anything that makes sense to me.

And, I like your "boots" reference. I unfortunately lack the personal fortitude to carry that off.

I am going to try to stop thinking about this so much. In my head, it's me trying to fix this entire disaster, but I can see that it is just torturing me & him instead. I just want to understand his thinking so I can understand he's still someone I should be partnered with.

I am in misery. Like the Maroon5 song. I like their song about killing the AP too. (Wake up call) That was a good one.

M3: I'm glad you have had your epiphany.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, November 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3.

The fact that you actually thought about hitting him probably hurt as much or more than if you had smacked him. If you find out if the new you is better than the old you or visa versa, please let us know. We need the whole story concerning this. The new you sounds like she is pretty cool.

ats.

So now he is all smiles and nice. He is afraid of you for sure. It sounds like he is a real sorry POS.

Allgood.

Trying to understand his thinking is not going to be easy. One hint for you and all the girls here is this. He is a guy and we are usually pretty simple. Try to think simple and do not add a bunch of stuff that is not there.

miracle.

You have not been posting as often as before? I had not noticed this. I did think it was a bit quiet here for awhile, but just could not figure out the reason.

Hugs to the tribe.

[This message edited by old dipstick at 4:32 PM, November 8th (Monday)]


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, November 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FWW and I talked about my day with xOM. She expressed support, she apologized.

Yes I wish this had never happened, but in this last month I have really begun to think we may make our way out of this intact.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 10:09 PM, November 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yay atse! I'm so happy that your WW was able to support you today. If only they (WS's) knew that it really would take so little to make us feel loved and appreciated. We, or at least, I know that nothing will change the past but it's how they handle the sich now that keeps the wound open. I'm glad your WW was approachable and supportive of you.

Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
honesttoafault
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Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:52 PM, November 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats: I agree with everyone that there MUST be something you can do to avoid working with the xOM. You are showing great strenght of character and dignity with your actions. Of course that POS is afraid of you, he can't hold a candle to a "real" man like you!!

{{{{{M3}}}} I admire your courage and fortitude. Accepting that we have a condition that can be treatable is a hard thing to do. Dealing with the after math of a LTA is another story all together. You are right, it has become part of us, a deep scar that will always be there no matter what.

Allgood: I'm so sorry for what you are going through. Of course we want to understand WHY? HOW? It can help with our healing to understand to a degree the WHY? It doesn't excuse the A, but I feel that if the WS has a personality disorder, deep FOO issues, alcoholism or another addictions, etc, it can help us really FEEL that it wasn't us. That no matter who the WS was married to, they would have had an A.
I'm thinking especially of you, Ats. No disrespect to your FWW, but from what you have told us, she has extremely deep FOO issues, and I really feel no matter who she was married to, it would have happened. Understanding this, can help you feel "IT wasn't me", although you still have to deal with the pain. That will still take time.

I did confront WH about the trip and he admitted that he was taking OW. "What's the problem? I sleep with her overseas anyway, what difference does it make where we are going?"
Gotta keep that mantra going, "it's over, it's over"

But the finality of it all is killing me. I'm trying to cut that last thread I was hanging on to. I'm disappearing down the rabbit hole.......

I feel I didn't even have a choice to R or not. I did have false R for almost 10 months.... but I don't even have a choice to R or not.

Thank you all for your support and hugs {{{{Nofun, deeppurple, Laura, Ats, Allgood, Miracel, strongish, dipm m3}}}}} I hope I didn't miss anyone!!
thinking of you Ukgirl, njgal, Fnf, lost, Nell.....

Love you all.....

I am trying to line up my ducks......although I can't help thinking about Laura's ducks, and Miracle saying once that my ducks better have bullet proof vests on!!!

LOL, Laura "fucking ducks are excited to be on the grass!!" So many double entendres there!!!

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 11:00 PM, November 8th (Monday)]


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 2:18 AM, November 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all
Been lurking but am thinking of you all.
Had a huge meltdown 2 nights ago which led to some more TT. I have just spotted a gaping hole in a story I got that night so am going to confront again tonight.

Goes back to 1994. He tells me he disappeared on me (and our 2 small children) for 4 days to take OW1 home 400kms away. Told me he needed to go away to "think". Says he met her while she was in hospital for 2 weeks. She was married and he took her home to her h. They began A a yr later after she d her h and moved back here..

There's something fishy here!

Pray for me
Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:06 AM, November 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


You are iron that has been forged into steel.
I like this very much!!

Plus, for whatever reason WH asked me if I wanted to hit him.
In the early weeks and months, H wanted me to go for him physically. He wanted me to hit, scream, yell, slap, push, whack him with whatever I had in my hand, he wanted to feel physical pain as he felt he deserved it. My sitting on the floor crying just screwed him up.

Ats, I have to agree with the others regarding OM. You should not have to be dealing with that POS. WTF did she see in him – he sounds so worthless. Did they all choose someone weak and needy as their APs? Anyway, I think you are handling it wonderfully and with great dignity and showing real strength of character. You must be making him feel like the low life he is. I guess there is some sort of satisfaction in watching his discomfort. Bring on the schadenfreude!

But the finality of it all is killing me. I'm trying to cut that last thread I was hanging on to. I'm disappearing down the rabbit hole.......
No you’re not, honey. There is nothing to hang on to. He only cares about him. His only love is him. What he gave you was lies, lies and more lies and then he shrugged and said like it or lump it. You are better than this. You are so much better than this. That is not a rabbit hole, it is a stepping away and stepping out for yourself. You should be setting things up for when that day arrives so that you can look back without regret. And don’t think he loves her more than you, he doesn’t. She is compliant and idolising and that is what he is bathing in – it is all about him, has only ever been about him and will only ever be about him.

Laura, there will always be gaps and nagging thoughts and things that don't tally. I have gaping holes which I have filled with my own truth.

Hugs. I’m off down the gym again. FWH has lost several inches and about 4kgs. He used to be twice my weight. I still have my suspicions as to why he is doing all so determinedly - and why now? I don’t think he has read the email from GF2 who has pulled out of the reunion dinner. It clashes with her school Christmas do. Somehow I think she made that up, but never mind.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 7:15 AM, November 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest - set a goal to line up those ducks(fuckin ducks) and pick away at it. You won't believe how good you will feel. It gives you power. Be sneaky, go into stealth mode. Concentrate on yourself and what you need. You will feel the power, believe me it feels awesome.

Nobody walks on me anymore. I won't let them, including my H. In some ways my M is better. Maybe it's because I demand the respect I deserve? I put myself first now? I think my H is the one walking on eggshells for a change.

Last night H was having chest pains and he was uncomfortable. I asked him if he thought it was his heart and did he want to go to the emergency. He said, "I don't know," "why do you ask?" "you'd be happy if I croaked" I said, "that's not true" and I went to bed.

He's still in bed this morning. I think he's still breathing!


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, November 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ukgirl: why don't you just tell your ws that reunions are over.....he can't go to them anymore....he is not going to do withhold going voluntarily...so ask him.....tell him that you feel uncomfy with it and that the old days need to stay in the past....that if he wants to do g2g's with old buddies including spouses on both sides like you did recently...fine, but other then that reunions where spouses are not welcome are not welcome.......and be done with it....


m3 i love that your outlook on your bipolar and infidelity...you are on the money with that one....it is done and finding a way to live with it is necessary to move on with living....not just surviving but really living...


laura: remember to be calm when asking him to fill in the blanks, you will get more info that way....i believe that he just may feel safer in telling you the particulars....there is alot of years to cover, and you have been through so so much.....just to think about all you have had to absorb and process is just overwhleming in huge proportions......as much as he knows all he's done, he is also processing, on top of everything....get your answers and be calm about it...i do get the sense that he is trying....

i also think he needs to find a healthy outlet for all his energy....he is not putting it into the ow anymore and ducks i don't think is going to cut if for much longer....maybe he could go back to school....or take up gardening....at least you then could have flowers and vegies instead of eggs, feathers and poop.....


honest: i too think you need to start being proactive in your recovery.....do it oh so slyly....tell him you need to do something for yourself....and then go get your masters......

the rabbit hole has tunnels to take you to other places...think alice in wonderland and visit a few....


(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
savedbygrace
♀ Member
Member # 27876
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, November 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To those who replied to my post, I’m so sorry it took so long to reply.. I had to do this little by little in a day. This post is 5 days in the making. I had a feeling I would be posting here at the part21. Sighh…

I chose to post here since its like being in BH’s mind and heart. I can never feel or understand what he’s going through and I want to. I get to have more understanding upon reading posts in this group. Yes, sometimes I do get tired of being treated like a maid / nanny / someone else… I suck it all in.. I did this to him… Still, I love the way he still hugs and being intimate to me inspite of being “me. I can’t get to remind myself of the pain I’ve caused him. And this “tribe” is helping me a lot to stretch out my understanding of what’s going on in BS’s life. .” I am past the “guilt” stage (I think) and am working hard for R.

Honest – Thanks, I do post in the “wayward” forum somehow. Sigh, IC and MC really is hard to come around here.. I can’t even have him check SI so he would have someone to talk to, or someone to answer his questions. We had an MC (which was from a religious group) who eventually told us (after around 5 sessions) that we’re going to be ok… “ BS – learn to forgive her, she was stupid.” “WS – learn to forgive yourself, and don’t do it again” OMG… what kind of advise was that? In our country, no one knows where to find counseling unless it’s a pastor or a religious leader (which we are not considering since BS doesn’t want anyone to know about this and we are good friends with our church group). But it has been mentioned here over and over again that its important… I guess we need to work harder in finding one. Thanks so much for the prayers… That’s the best thing we can receive.

ATS – BH asks how to be able to trust a word I say if I’ve lied to him for so long. I know I can’t make him… I know it would take even years. We have discussed how the A happened… It was so lame. Poor boundaries, attraction to power, loving attention and according to him, lack of respect (I’m still in the process of acknowledging this last reason). When you say TT does it mean I lie about something at first then take it back? Details were discussed little by little and in one of my posts in the Wayward forum I mention that I have a bad memory on intricate details which I tend to be inconsistent about. I have been trying to give all truths since the start. I wasn’t found out by BS, I volunteered the information. X-OM was being too “clingy” and I wanted out so I told.

What BH doesn’t understand is how can I have PA with someone I don’t have a relationship with. I think it’s worse for BS that I didn’t even love x-OM. Well, he was my boss, and many favors were done career wise (all not worth it). I don’t even know where to put it, I’ve been asking OM to stop so many times but when push comes to shove, I eventually say “ok”. Its really SICK!

Anyway, I have to get a paypal account first so I can purchase these books online… I’ve searched high and low for books that are available here locally, sigh…to no avail. Sadly.. I will work on getting these books. I got one though… “Surviving an Affair” by Dr. Williard Harley, Jr… It’s more on dealing with R and what to do.. not much on retracing the past and learning what really happened. I kinda need something like that.

I did thought over and over whether I should post here…. I have received 2x4s indirectly already by reading posts here… I guess I wanted to hear some directed at me personally.

You said I cannot apologize too much…. Whenever I apologize, and say it will never happen again. BS says it doesn’t mean anything…. And that I can’t hurt him more.. and he doesn’t care anymore if I do it over and over again.  

Allgoodnamesgone – Yes, please vent all you want.. That’s why I’m here. Thank you for your inputs… I understand the complexity of an LTA… Compartmentalization (sp?), is it an excuse? I read about it a lot, for a BS, is this accepted as a reason for continuing to have an A?

I agree, BH and I were in a better place around the first month after DDay. Maybe because he didn’t find out, I volunteered the information. Or as you mentioned, because of the shock. I am reading self-help books and reading a lot here.

BH also says that when he looks at me, he doesn’t know who I am... Basically, what you have said are pretty much the same as what BH has been telling me. Believe me when I say it’s nice to hear it from other parties… Reminding me that what BH is feeling and saying is valid.

We have taken the 5 Love Language Quiz and I got Affirmation and Quality Time. He got Service and Quality Time. Knowing this, I make sure everythings ready and in order when he leaves and returns from work.. He gets his daily massage from me. And I am honored to be doing this for him. There are times during the month (hormonal?) where I get too emotional and beaten up.. If it has been banter from BH, I couldn’t get myself to give him a massage (which is supposed to be a caring act). I got Affirmation as my LL and it hurts a lot when I don’t get it… Banter and angry outbursts kills me. I just keep on reminding myself that I’m lucky he’s still here with me.

Do the BS’s think the WS’s deserve the WS’s Love Language filled by you? I am still not familiar with the idea that BS’s needs to be part of the R (aside from dealing with the pain).

UKgirl – thanks for the advice. At my best knowledge, I’m not TT’ing. Or at least I try not to. It may be hard to accept for the BS when the WS cannot answer directly a question. Sometimes, in my case, the A is something that I would really like to forget. And memories of very small details die down. I know its not an excuse but sometimes I have to get back to him to process the question so I can get back to him with “what really is” and not “what might have been.” It’s quite an effort to remember details especially if it pertains to “what did you feel during (a certain event).”

Deeppurple – Thanks… It really means a lot to hear someone acknowledge that WS does have our own pain.

Laura – (taking a deep breath)… I am here because I am willing to learn from the BS’s. I am very much sorry for being a WS, I may not be able to say anything to make you feel any better. I really really appreciate your 2x4s. I know the gravity of TT and to my best knowledge, I try very hard to give him all truthful details. I maybe different from others but I am not comfortable posting at my profile the story just yet. But I can be open in the forums.

Trust: is something I have to earn… I am working very hard to earn this and am not expecting it in the near future.

New memories: BH and I use this term “special” memories which doesn’t mean anything to him anymore… I mean our past “special” memories doesn’t mean anything. I try to make new “special” memories for him, for us/.. Things we haven’t done yet, things we can remember doing without the other life I have been living.

I asked earlier if it really means a lot to say sorry and “it wont happen again”…. I get a “it doesn’t mean anything” response most of the time.

I’m ok with your tone. I get it with BH pretty much also.
Thanks for your honesty.

Nofun – Oh, I’m really sorry for your LTA…  BH did say before that I was minimizing the truth. He was pertaining to the details about my feelings towards the x-OM. It was because he couldn’t comprehend that x-OM and I didn’t have a “relationship” and that it was pure sex and appreciation. X-OM and I really didn’t discuss what we were, what we meant for each other so basically, I don’t know. Disgustingly also, I didn’t feel I wanted to be with x-OM, he wasn’t my type, except that he was one of the most favored boss and he was the youngest to get to the position he was in.. in short a lot look up to him.. and for him to pay attention to me… the favors me and BH got at work, sighhh…. ITS SO NOT WORTH IT! I don’t know yet where to put myself, where I am, what kind of being I am. I’m still working on it… I sometimes can’t consider myself a human being just yet.

UKgirl – This is one perspective I haven’t heard yet… Yes, it does scare me knowing that I was able to do this for so long.. I’ve been so lost after DDay that I didn’t know if I had a chance to change. It was up until recently when I decided that I won’t let it dictate my future. That I am still capable of making good choices. That’s why I am more active in learning now.. I’m burning with desire to learn everything about myself, about BH, about what we’re going through and what lies up ahead.

Just like Mr UKg, I tend to shut out what happened as if it didn’t happen.  And I know it will rip BH apart if he finds out. I kept telling myself everytime that that was the last time and I can handle and stop it by myself.. yeah right.. and still… 9years!!!!

M334455 – Whew… knowing that someone survived makes hope much stronger.

Yeah, well, I sometimes get 5-6hours during our good days. But we recently have not so good days. I would need a doctor’s Rx to get antidepressants. I so long wanted to get some. I don’t even know of anyone who uses them here. I take vitamins everyday at most. Right now its 2am already and I get up at 6am. BH is not here right now, he’s out with some co-workers (a birthday celebration I guess). I’m also waiting for him to get home.

Yes x-OM is married and BH and I worked in the same company as him and his BS. BTW, BH and I don’t work there anymore. We have a little complication with this. As BH pointed out, the industry that we’re working with is very small and everyone knows everyone. And X-OM is in one of the top posts. We’re in the middle level only. Knowing x-OM’s BS, she would scatter it like fire and we’re kinda scared of what will happen to our career. But yes we know that it is also possible the x-OM’s career can be affected too. Its just that we have too many at risk.. BH wants to have ourselves stable before we can have the guts to spill. Tsk, one of my many mistakes in choosing the enemy… In my last conversation with x-OM, I told him if he breaks NC, we tell his wife. I know we’re being selfish here, but so much at risk for us. X-OM says that if his wife finds out, he will get fired. As if I care…

I agree with you when you said that having this ON-OFF relation does complicate things… I know it will take a lot more time for us to be ok because of this.

Anyway, I will be posting later about OM breaking NC yesterday. It was a question, consulting me if he can transfer to the company where BH is working, he will then be BH’s boss!!!! Can you imagine his balls?! I didn’t reply and told BH immediately. BH knew about it since its all over his workplace that OM was offered a big time position there. Something to complicate our complicated situation.

Thanks for all your time and support… It makes me stronger to fight this.

I’m also very sorry we are all here…


FWW (me) - 33
BH (my best friend) - 32
DD 6yo
DS 2yo
D-Day (the whole truth and nothing but the truth) - 02/14/10
Reconciling (I think)

Posts: 62 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: SE Asia
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, November 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WTF did she see in him – he sounds so worthless.

UKgirl, FWW and I have talked about this, because I wondered too. The answer supports the concept that the A is about the WS, not the OP. She started where they both worked a little before he did. She says that no one there really liked him, her either. He would come around each morning to say hi to people, not just FWW. At some point, she said something, he laughed, and she was pleased that he thought she was funny. They began talking more, she liked the attention, he was telling her what a great person she was, she told him the same things, and the rest is history. He is not a happy person. His wife had an A, left him for her AP many years ago, and is still married to him. He is not healthy, and has some problems controlling ejaculation. I do not know of anyone who things highly of him. Her next AP was no better. About all he had going for him was is position in her organization and money. He is 10 years older than her, stutters, has a "bum leg", and ED issues. Oh, and herpes. All the OM had going from them was frequent attention, unconditional acceptance of her and constant affirmation. These are not even remotely attractive or particularly interesting people. I know the memories of sex with them cannot be pleasant for FWW now that she is out of her foggy thinking.

savedbygrace,

BH asks how to be able to trust a word I say if I’ve lied to him for so long.

He can't. What will fix this (I hope, because I still do not trust what FWW says about her affairs or her feelings) is developing a history going forward of you being honest and having that proven out. FWW has notified me promptly when there were possible breeches of NC from the xOM. FWW and I can have a painful discussion about the As and we still reconnect. FWW schedules IC and talks to me about how it is painful and helping. We have a long way to go, but I believe that I can regain trust in the future. As things look now, I do not believe I will ever trust that she has told me the full truth about her LTA's.

When you say TT does it mean I lie about something at first then take it back?

In general, TT (trickle talk) is letting little bits at a time out over a long period rather than just telling the complete story upfront. Each new information is a wound and sets back healing. It is the death of the marriage by a thousand cuts. In my case, she lied about virtually everything I could verify independently for the first 2-3 months. She continued to lie, with lies of omission and actual untruths for the first 6 months. I clearly had misperceptions about the depth and breadth of her A activity and she allowed those to stand uncorrected. It was not until 7 months after dday that she gave me 4 typed pages of additional details that gave me enough information to understand her affairs. This delay, the TT, killed any trust I have for her telling me a painful truth. I know for a fact that she is still withholding significant information about her A's, she has admitted such. It remains to be seen if her withholding this information kills our R, or is inconsequential.

I think it’s worse for BS that I didn’t even love x-OM. Well, he was my boss, and many favors were done career wise (all not worth it). I don’t even know where to put it, I’ve been asking OM to stop so many times but when push comes to shove, I eventually say “ok”. Its really SICK!

This sounds similar to what FWW says to me. I do know there was an inital attraction and "crush" on the first xOM, but nothing romantic with the next other than some fantasy thoughts. She did not really "take advantage" of the opportunity for gifts or career help from the xOM who was her "boss" and had resources. She did not want to be beholding to him

You said I cannot apologize too much…. Whenever I apologize, and say it will never happen again. BS says it doesn’t mean anything…. And that I can’t hurt him more.. and he doesn’t care anymore if I do it over and over again.

They are just words, he does not believe you, I understand that he feels beyond further hurt. Still, I wish FWW apologized more. Not the "I am awful and you deserve better" apologies, but that she is sorry, she understands how badly she hurt me, and that she appreciates beyond expression my staying to try and R.

Do the BS’s think the WS’s deserve the WS’s Love Language filled by you?

Yes, once the couple is in to R, both must connect and support each other. This takes time. In my case, I felt like I did most of the heavy lifting for the first 8 - 10 months. I would have appreciated some help.

--Ats

ETA

BH also says that when he looks at me, he doesn’t know who I am...

There was a period of time when FWW would catch me just staring at her. When she asked what I was doing I told her; I was trying to see who she was. I did not know who she was, she was not who I remembered. This went on for a month or so, I would just stare at her and try to see who she was.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 10:08 AM, November 9th (Tuesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, November 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3
fnf
honest
allgood
fun
njgal

you all have a pm


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, November 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Grace, just dipping in to recommend an e-book. It’s only available online and the only one my H read. It’s cheap fairly short and to the point. "Infidelity Crisis: How to Gain Forgiveness and Respect After Your Affair". It’s written with a Christian slant, but these areas are written within boxes for those who find help and comfort in bible quotes and stuff. So you can just ignore those. The rest of it is really very good whatever your religious base is. Here’s the link:
http://www.aftertheaffair.net/
Let me know if the link cannot be reached from your country and I’ll try to help you out another way.

Miracle, I have never made any demands on H. I was stupid enough to do the “horse whisperer” approach, thinking that loose reins would keep him to me as well as allow him to go if he should choose. But I am not his mother. I will not be one to say things like “you cannot”. I may say I don’t like it, but in the end the decision is down to him. If he wants to cheat, he will. He’s proven that he’s capable of it. But by the same token, he has to swallow his words if I want to go somewhere or see someone that he’s not happy about. In other words, I don’t OWE him anything. I don’t feel so close to him that I am prepared to take a stance on it. He can go. Fine. But I’m not changing my arrangements to accommodate him. Those days are long gone. I am going down to help my friend move and then I might stay on for a few days and visit other friends and family.

Now folks, I have a question for you. A big question. What are the components that make up a marriage? I’ve come up with the following, which kind of tracks the process from the first meet to the vows. I was thinking of discussing this with FWH, asking what he thinks about how things have changed, but he’d probably roll his eyes and say “not that again”. Although the chance was there this morning when he asked what I was thinking about. I don’t know why he asks all the time when really he doesn’t want to know!! So I think:
Attraction
Affection
Friendship
Intimacy
Emotional attachment
Trust
Honesty
Respect
Loyalty
Mutual support
Commitment


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, November 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good googlie mooglie y'all.

Ok, I'll start with Grace --

See if you can find some phone IC.

Your BH does care whether or not you do it again. he probably thinks about it 24/7 too.

You'll never understand. But you can muster all the compassion you can.

Apologies - I'm sorry I hurt you = I'm sorry I got caught. I know you confessed, but he probably thinks you were about to be ratted out so you confessed.

I'm sorry if I could take it back I would = remorse.

You are entitled to your love language but I'd write affirmation off for now. Instead, but limit verbal attacks. If he attacks you combat it -- I know you're hurting, X part of what you said is a fact, but the rest is just deliberately hurtful and I won't let you talk to me that way.

From what you're saying, your A is what I would call a "porn with skin" A to borrow a phrase from another poster here. Flattered by the attention, excited by doing something forbidden, liking the work favors...

Trust -- there are two types. Calculus based (quid pro quo, like I know you're showing up for work because you want to get paid) and Identity based (like, I can trust you b/c your my wife and you would never harm me because you care about my feelings and have my best interest's at heart.) You've lost both. You work on the calculus based trust. Always be where you say you're going to be, on time, do what you say you'll do, call to affirm your spouse, help him more with the things he cares about, etc. Be dependable and benevolent. I don't know if you can rebuild identity based trust. Theoretically it's possible. I would guess it would take somewhere near the length of your A.

As for OM -- he fished, he asked, I would have your BH contact him and say, if you take that job after we moved to be away from you we will consider it a NC break and tell your BW. Your choice.

I'll have to do a part 2 for the rest of you!


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

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